The World's #1 Russian, Ukrainian & Eastern European Discussion & Information Forum - RUA!

This Is the Premier Discussion Forum on the Net for Information and Discussion about Russia, Ukraine, Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union. Discuss Culture, Politics, Travelling, Language, International Relationships and More. Chat with Travellers, Locals, Residents and Expats. Ask and Answer Questions about Travel, Culture, Relationships, Applying for Visas, Translators, Interpreters, and More. Give Advice, Read Trip Reports, Share Experiences and Make Friends.

Author Topic: How Bad is Ukraine's Economic Collapse  (Read 580 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dorbradavid

  • Member
  • Posts: 437
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Professor and Sailor
  • Spouses Country: United States
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 5-10
How Bad is Ukraine's Economic Collapse
« on: May 18, 2022, 07:24:07 AM »

Perhaps of interest

How Bad is Ukraine's Economic Collapse

Dobra David

Online AvHdB

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 14916
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Ukraine, Kiev
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: How Bad is Ukraine's Economic Collapse
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2022, 07:37:32 AM »

Perhaps of interest

How Bad is Ukraine's Economic Collapse


An interesting but in fact very depressing presentation.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline WestCoast

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9861
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
Re: How Bad is Ukraine's Economic Collapse
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2022, 10:18:23 AM »
If Ukraine survives Putin's invasion and is rebuilt by the west will the long term results be the same for Ukraine as they were for Japan and Germany after WW2?

Over the decades after WW2 both countries have become economic super powers. It would be a long term embarrassment for Russia if 40 or 50 years in the future Ukraine was doing much better than Russia. If Ukraine's GDP per capita were much higher than Russia's, median household income was higher than Russia's and its unemployment rate was much lower than Russia's.

Putin's name would go down in history as forever dooming Russia as an aggressor whose victim ended up better off. Who knows perhaps the west will also have to rebuild Russia? The war isn't over and Russia may yet end up in worse shape than Ukraine. 
andrewfi says ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."

That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.


Offline Jonas!

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 632
  • Country: co
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Colombia
  • Trips: 10-20
Re: How Bad is Ukraine's Economic Collapse
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2022, 10:30:23 AM »
If Ukraine survives Putin's invasion and is rebuilt by the west will the long term results be the same for Ukraine as they were for Japan and Germany after WW2?

Over the decades after WW2 both countries have become economic super powers. It would be a long term embarrassment for Russia if 40 or 50 years in the future Ukraine was doing much better than Russia. If Ukraine's GDP per capita were much higher than Russia's, median household income was higher than Russia's and its unemployment rate was much lower than Russia's.

Putin's name would go down in history as forever dooming Russia as an aggressor whose victim ended up better off. Who knows perhaps the west will also have to rebuild Russia? The war isn't over and Russia may yet end up in worse shape than Ukraine.
I'm pretty sure Putin is aware the Ukraine will have the backing of dozens of western countries so given that, Putin may  think it is in Russia's best interests to continue bombarding Ukraine for years or decades.   If Russia doesn't downright incorporate Ukraine into Russia, their alternative could be to make it a nation always under duress that nobody will feel safe rebuilding or inhabiting.  If this is the case, their will never be a thriving independent Ukraine.   

Jonas!   

Offline WestCoast

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9861
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
Re: How Bad is Ukraine's Economic Collapse
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2022, 11:28:10 AM »
If Ukraine survives Putin's invasion and is rebuilt by the west will the long term results be the same for Ukraine as they were for Japan and Germany after WW2?

Over the decades after WW2 both countries have become economic super powers. It would be a long term embarrassment for Russia if 40 or 50 years in the future Ukraine was doing much better than Russia. If Ukraine's GDP per capita were much higher than Russia's, median household income was higher than Russia's and its unemployment rate was much lower than Russia's.

Putin's name would go down in history as forever dooming Russia as an aggressor whose victim ended up better off. Who knows perhaps the west will also have to rebuild Russia? The war isn't over and Russia may yet end up in worse shape than Ukraine.
I'm pretty sure Putin is aware the Ukraine will have the backing of dozens of western countries so given that, Putin may  think it is in Russia's best interests to continue bombarding Ukraine for years or decades.   If Russia doesn't downright incorporate Ukraine into Russia, their alternative could be to make it a nation always under duress that nobody will feel safe rebuilding or inhabiting.  If this is the case, their will never be a thriving independent Ukraine.   

Jonas!

IMO having Ukraine in a constant state of war is most definitely Putin's plan if he can't control it. The problem for Putin is with all the firepower the west has sent to Ukraine there's now a chance Ukraine might be able to defeat Putin.

British analysts are saying Putin has lost one third of his ground forces in Ukraine. Unless Putin plans on doing a nation wide conscription of men Putin can't continue to suffer these types of loses for years on end. Also what about loses of tanks, trucks, artillery and such? Already there are reports Putin can't repair and build new equipment because Russia lacks the necessary parts that come from foreign suppliers. So again Putin won't be able to continue this war for years on end.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1609352/putin-news-russian-weapons-fridge-parts-us-sanctions-semiconductors
andrewfi says ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."

That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.

Offline Jonas!

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 632
  • Country: co
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Colombia
  • Trips: 10-20
Re: How Bad is Ukraine's Economic Collapse
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2022, 12:12:51 PM »
If Ukraine survives Putin's invasion and is rebuilt by the west will the long term results be the same for Ukraine as they were for Japan and Germany after WW2?

Over the decades after WW2 both countries have become economic super powers. It would be a long term embarrassment for Russia if 40 or 50 years in the future Ukraine was doing much better than Russia. If Ukraine's GDP per capita were much higher than Russia's, median household income was higher than Russia's and its unemployment rate was much lower than Russia's.

Putin's name would go down in history as forever dooming Russia as an aggressor whose victim ended up better off. Who knows perhaps the west will also have to rebuild Russia? The war isn't over and Russia may yet end up in worse shape than Ukraine.
I'm pretty sure Putin is aware the Ukraine will have the backing of dozens of western countries so given that, Putin may  think it is in Russia's best interests to continue bombarding Ukraine for years or decades.   If Russia doesn't downright incorporate Ukraine into Russia, their alternative could be to make it a nation always under duress that nobody will feel safe rebuilding or inhabiting.  If this is the case, their will never be a thriving independent Ukraine.   

Jonas!

IMO having Ukraine in a constant state of war is most definitely Putin's plan if he can't control it. The problem for Putin is with all the firepower the west has sent to Ukraine there's now a chance Ukraine might be able to defeat Putin.

British analysts are saying Putin has lost one third of his ground forces in Ukraine. Unless Putin plans on doing a nation wide conscription of men Putin can't continue to suffer these types of loses for years on end. Also what about loses of tanks, trucks, artillery and suchence/1609352/putin-news-russian-weapons-fridge-parts-us-sanctions-semiconductors

I don't really believe that British report mainly because I believe it is a biased source.  I'm sure Russia has lost a significant number of men, but they have plenty more.    In addition they have heavier weaponry they have not utilized yet if they really get fed up.  I think Russia can hold Ukraine if they really decided they wanted to, or they can just take most of the useful parts of it, and leave the rest in a beleaguered state.   Currently I don't see a scenario where they permit Western powers rebuild Ukraine, until they take what they want. 

Jonas!     

Online Steveboy

  • Commercial Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5578
  • Country: ru
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: In The Business
  • Trips: Resident
Re: How Bad is Ukraine's Economic Collapse
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2022, 02:47:30 PM »
The last thing you can trust today is any News from the British Bullshit Corporation... :laugh:
I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!

Offline andrewfi

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 20697
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Articles About Almost Anything!
Re: How Bad is Ukraine's Economic Collapse
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2022, 03:09:49 PM »
In economic terms, it is not sensible to have a poverty-stricken country next to one's own. has Ukraine has been denuded over the past few years the increase in poverty has caused more and more problems for Russia. It hasn't been great in Poland either.

The words 'don't know what they're talking' about strike hard when reading posts like some of those above.

The poor Ukrainian economy is driven by two factors:
1) Ukrainians.
2) The EU and by extension and to a lesser degree the US.

In the end, though, it was Ukrainian choices made by the Ukrainian people that led to the problems with the EU, and so the final responsibility lies with the Ukrainians.

In the early 2000s, it was possible that Ukraine might've found its way back to a relatively productive and prosperous economy, but the Orange Revolution put paid to that and sent almost all the stakeholders who had some commitment to improvement scuttling away into retirement or safe obscurity.

And yes, the economy is now closing down, overburdened by debts, with a dismantled tax collection system, industry and agriculture closing down - but not even all of those recent issues can be laid at the door of Russia - any more than Biden and his 'Putin Price Rises' can be. The economy was deindustrialising; agriculture was being sold off. And anyone who was relatively honest, intelligent and willing to work left for greener pastures in Russia and the EU. The EU got the hookers and drug dealers - but at least they work and are entrepreneurial!
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Online Bodine

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 776
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 5-10
Re: How Bad is Ukraine's Economic Collapse
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2022, 03:25:46 PM »

Perhaps of interest

How Bad is Ukraine's Economic Collapse


The singles best assessment of Ukraine's current state of affairs. Pity the hosts, and damned all those who cheered and tacked misguided points upon the proverbial wall of shame. There's nothing to cheer with how this war continued on upon the west's agenda-driven bidding.

Ukraine, is the single biggest loser every single day this war rages on. So many follies on a scoring system of the dead and dying. How can a war torn nation, flattened infrastructure, a divided population, displaced citizenry, corrupt politicians, etc...be seen as a 'winner'?

Many of you folks bought into the US's West's snake oil supplies.

Irony is found in the suggestion that "Ukraine have every right for *self-determination*"

Online Steveboy

  • Commercial Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5578
  • Country: ru
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: In The Business
  • Trips: Resident
Re: How Bad is Ukraine's Economic Collapse
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2022, 03:50:58 PM »
If Ukraine survives Putin's invasion and is rebuilt by the west will the long term results be the same for Ukraine as they were for Japan and Germany after WW2?

Over the decades after WW2 both countries have become economic super powers. It would be a long term embarrassment for Russia if 40 or 50 years in the future Ukraine was doing much better than Russia. If Ukraine's GDP per capita were much higher than Russia's, median household income was higher than Russia's and its unemployment rate was much lower than Russia's.

Putin's name would go down in history as forever dooming Russia as an aggressor whose victim ended up better off. Who knows perhaps the west will also have to rebuild Russia? The war isn't over and Russia may yet end up in worse shape than Ukraine.

I think you're just dreaming there!! have you done much time in Ukraine? Did you ever live there? Done any business there? Had business dealings with anyone there?

Germans and Japs have a totally different mentality to Ukrainians .. of course as usual and as in any country there are lots of hard working Ukrainians who want a better life and are willing to work for that.. But generally there is that mentality that why work when you can steal it.. and why work for a low income (like many do to establish a business and so on) when others in other countries are earning much more than you..

I had a fair bit of experience in Ukraine and for that reason I have no intention to ever add that country for tours on my web site.. I have no need for that shit thanks!

I have a few mates there .. one told me this .. his mom used to pick up Americans from the airport to take to their hotel ready for some social events with prospective women seeking a US husband.. he just could not understand why a guy from the US who has probably paid a fair few thousand $$$$ to fly to Ukraine and meet some women .. would only give his mother a $10 tip.. :laugh: his way of thinking was .. well they just paid thousands for this trip and they cannot even afford to tip mother $200 for the trip from the airport..

The mentality is a little like it is in Russia but 500 times worse! Its pretty common around this part of the world .. maybe it will change one day but I do not see it happening in Ukraine for several hundred years .. so your probably never going to see it.. IF it was ver to happen..

Keep dreaming!!



I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!

Online Steveboy

  • Commercial Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5578
  • Country: ru
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: In The Business
  • Trips: Resident
Re: How Bad is Ukraine's Economic Collapse
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2022, 04:20:09 PM »
 ;D
I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!


 

 

Registration