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Author Topic: POW swap?  (Read 523 times)

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Offline Contrarian

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POW swap?
« on: May 17, 2022, 12:09:28 AM »
Wounded soldiers who were in the Azovstal plant are now in a hospital but in Russian controlled territory. Others will apparently get freedom in some sort of swap. Can anyone else please add their thoughts on this? It's not completely clear what is going to happen to the wounded.


https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-zelenskyy-Kiev-finland-6203a57a7ec5fe2c49c9ccb83f2ca7e0

Offline andrewfi

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Re: POW swap?
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2022, 02:34:47 AM »
No, somebody has not been understanding what they're reading.

No prisoner swap has been arranged. The Ukrainian minister was hoping that a swap might be arranged.

At this time the status of the prisoners is not clear. The Ukrainians refuse to use the word 'surrender'. The Russians and LDPR will filter the people in their care. Some may stand trial in a criminal court. Foreign fighters will not be POWs or at least not share the same rights as Ukrainian soldiers who are determined to be prisoners of war.

The people who came out overnight are a minority of those who were holed up. So the status of the remaining people is undetermined.

I'm sure the Kiev regime would like to get their hands on the people taken into Russian/LDPR custody.
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Offline Jonas!

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Re: POW swap?
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2022, 06:39:00 AM »
At this time the status of the prisoners is not clear. The Ukrainians refuse to use the word 'surrender'.
When I first read the story yesterday, it was phrased in such a way that it seemed Ukraine was victorious, and the mission was over.   Most readers aren't going to go any further than that, so they will be misled.

Jonas! 


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Re: POW swap?
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2022, 06:56:22 AM »
It's not completely clear what is going to happen to the wounded.

Wounded or not, Azov, Right Sector and C14 Nazis will stand trial in Russia. Possibly foreigners too to dissuade others. Low-level conscripts, volunteers, regular Joes and those they have no interest in will perhaps be traded. Civilians - if there are any - should be freed.

My understanding is everyone in the steel plant has now surrendered. There's a Twitter thread >>here<< from a well-informed chap.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

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Re: POW swap?
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2022, 10:55:08 AM »
It's not completely clear what is going to happen to the wounded.

Wounded or not, Azov, Right Sector and C14 Nazis will stand trial in Russia. Possibly foreigners too to dissuade others. Low-level conscripts, volunteers, regular Joes and those they have no interest in will perhaps be traded. Civilians - if there are any - should be freed.

My understanding is everyone in the steel plant has now surrendered. There's a Twitter thread >>here<< from a well-informed chap.


Sure just like Wagner neo-Nazi's and other Russian war criminals will stand trial in Ukraine.

Putin wants to get in a monkey poo flinging contest with the West and that's all this is.

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Offline andrewfi

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Re: POW swap?
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2022, 01:22:49 AM »


Putin wants to get in a monkey poo flinging contest with the West and that's all this is.

Do you really think that?

Is that the limit of your intellectual capability?

Here's a thing, it is impossible for a person to imagine or understand a concept beyond his intellectual capacity. it cannot be done. Just as impossible as teaching a blind person to understand the concept of the colour red.

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Offline WestCoast

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Re: POW swap?
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2022, 01:52:50 AM »
It's not completely clear what is going to happen to the wounded.

Wounded or not, Azov, Right Sector and C14 Nazis will stand trial in Russia. Possibly foreigners too to dissuade others. Low-level conscripts, volunteers, regular Joes and those they have no interest in will perhaps be traded. Civilians - if there are any - should be freed.

My understanding is everyone in the steel plant has now surrendered. There's a Twitter thread >>here<< from a well-informed chap.


Sure just like Wagner neo-Nazi's and other Russian war criminals will stand trial in Ukraine.

Putin wants to get in a monkey poo flinging contest with the West and that's all this is.

If Putin wants to get into a battle with the west then he's an idiot. If that happens it's nuclear armageddon and the world is toast. Either that or Putin does he best impression of Hitler's last day or as I've said before Putin gets frog marched out of the Kremlin by two burly American privates.

After the embarrassing performance of Russian forces in Ukraine it's proof that the Russian military couldn't take on NATO forces. Russian forces would be abandoning their equipment in droves, they'd be shooting themselves in the thousands if NATO forces entered Russia. There'd be phone calls home to their moms begging their moms to come and pick them up from the battle field.

Russian fighter jets that crashed in Ukraine have been found to have rudimentary GPS receivers TAPED to their dashboards. If Russian fighter jets are this technologically backward what other deficits does the Russian air force have? Low on ammo and bombs? No parts to build or repair planes?  Not enough fuel?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russian-fighter-jets-gps-dashboard-uk-b2076376.html
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Offline dorbradavid

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Re: POW swap?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2022, 04:37:25 AM »
At this time the status of the prisoners is not clear. The Ukrainians refuse to use the word 'surrender'.
When I first read the story yesterday, it was phrased in such a way that it seemed Ukraine was victorious, and the mission was over.   Most readers aren't going to go any further than that, so they will be misled.

Jonas!

Any media posts that do not mention "surrender" are a good indicator of the credibility of that media source.  :8)
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Offline andrewfi

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Re: POW swap?
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2022, 11:56:34 AM »
From what I have seen it does seem as though the propaganda/news outlets are starting to be a little more truthful now.

What we saw was the inevitable result of Western media being fed by and accepting of propaganda produced by the Ukrainians.

If the people on news desks have no other source than Ukrainian sources then what else can they do?

I'm not giving the media a free pass. They made it and are part of it. However, if they actually had people on the ground outside of Kiev and in the areas where fighting is happening then they propably would have been a little more accurate - even if still hugely biased.
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Offline andrewfi

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Re: POW swap?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2022, 12:01:09 PM »
Where's the picture of a Russian plane with a GPS unit stuck to the control panel?

Westcoast, are you really so gullible? So easily led?

I understand that this rubbish might be want you want to believe, but it just makes you look like a fool. And yes, you're not alone, there's many, many, fools around.
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Offline WestCoast

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Re: POW swap?
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2022, 01:02:20 PM »
Where's the picture of a Russian plane with a GPS unit stuck to the control panel?

Westcoast, are you really so gullible? So easily led?

I understand that this rubbish might be want you want to believe, but it just makes you look like a fool. And yes, you're not alone, there's many, many, fools around.

You know this is wrong or deliberate fraud by the Ukrainians and/or NATO because? Your many years in the Royal Air Force as a pilot? Your years serving in Whitehall?

This is being reported. Where's your proof it's wrong? You claim to have been in the news business at one time. Why not do some investigative reporting and show positive proof this is fake news.

Andy, we both know what you're going to do. Either ignore this post entirely or post some insult and never post anything refuting it.

You and Manny are upset because for years you two have been saying that Russia is not going to invade Ukraine. Then out of nowhere Putin goes and invades Ukraine and Russia is getting bested by Ukraine.


https://eurasiantimes.com/su-34-fighter-jet-shockingly-found-with-gps-taped-to-dashboard/

From the above link:

Last year, a Russian Nationalist Politician and Soviet Air Force veteran, Viktor Alksnis drew attention to the images of the Su-34’s cockpit during combat operations in Syria, writing on Facebook that military pilots were using commercial GPS receivers during their combat operations.

“This is a popular travel navigator Garmin eTrex Venture HC worth about 10,000 rubles,” Alksnis added.

Experts later confirmed that the photos show a US-manufactured GPS receiver developed by the Garmin company.
This navigation system is a civilian navigation machine used by aviation enthusiasts. In addition to positioning navigation, it also provides weather and terrain warning service; because there is a European database, it is suitable for use in Europe and the nearby regions.

Garmin says that with its high-sensitivity, WAAS-enabled GPS receiver, eTrex Legend locates position quickly and precisely and maintains its GPS location even in heavy cover and deep canyons.

Note the article quotes a Russian nationalist politician and Soviet Air Force veteran. Maybe he's a CIA double agent? Maybe he's being paid a few rubles (USD?) by someone to discredit Russia?

The article below shows the same photo as in the eurasiantimes.com article. In this article from Aug 1, 2021, Viktor Alksnis says during combat missions in Syria Russian pilots used an American Garmin GPS receiver to duplicate their onboard navigation systems, which reportedly often malfunctioned in real combat conditions.

Is this real? I don't know. You and Manny have decades of experience in the news business, why don't you two get together and use your investigative talents and fact check this story? Imagine the praise and honours you two might receive if you discovered this was fake news? Maybe you'd get job offers from some  large international media outlets? Your own show on the BBC or Skye News or Good Morning Britain? Maybe you'd be offered a chance to have your own column in one of the big UK dailies?

https://defence-blog.com/russian-pilots-use-us-made-gps-receives-during-combat-missions-in-syria/
andrewfi says ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."

That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.

Offline Lon

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POW swap? Su-34 and Garmin
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2022, 02:21:48 PM »
Where's the picture of a Russian plane with a GPS unit stuck to the control panel?

Westcoast, are you really so gullible? So easily led?

I understand that this rubbish might be want you want to believe, but it just makes you look like a fool. And yes, you're not alone, there's many, many, fools around.

You know this is wrong or deliberate fraud by the Ukrainians and/or NATO because? Your many years in the Royal Air Force as a pilot? Your years serving in Whitehall?

This is being reported. Where's your proof it's wrong? You claim to have been in the news business at one time. Why not do some investigative reporting and show positive proof this is fake news.

Andy, we both know what you're going to do. Either ignore this post entirely or post some insult and never post anything refuting it.

You and Manny are upset because for years you two have been saying that Russia is not going to invade Ukraine. Then out of nowhere Putin goes and invades Ukraine and Russia is getting bested by Ukraine.


https://eurasiantimes.com/su-34-fighter-jet-shockingly-found-with-gps-taped-to-dashboard/

From the above link:

Last year, a Russian Nationalist Politician and Soviet Air Force veteran, Viktor Alksnis drew attention to the images of the Su-34’s cockpit during combat operations in Syria, writing on Facebook that military pilots were using commercial GPS receivers during their combat operations.

“This is a popular travel navigator Garmin eTrex Venture HC worth about 10,000 rubles,” Alksnis added.

Experts later confirmed that the photos show a US-manufactured GPS receiver developed by the Garmin company.
This navigation system is a civilian navigation machine used by aviation enthusiasts. In addition to positioning navigation, it also provides weather and terrain warning service; because there is a European database, it is suitable for use in Europe and the nearby regions.

Garmin says that with its high-sensitivity, WAAS-enabled GPS receiver, eTrex Legend locates position quickly and precisely and maintains its GPS location even in heavy cover and deep canyons.

Note the article quotes a Russian nationalist politician and Soviet Air Force veteran. Maybe he's a CIA double agent? Maybe he's being paid a few rubles (USD?) by someone to discredit Russia?

The article below shows the same photo as in the eurasiantimes.com article. In this article from Aug 1, 2021, Viktor Alksnis says during combat missions in Syria Russian pilots used an American Garmin GPS receiver to duplicate their onboard navigation systems, which reportedly often malfunctioned in real combat conditions.

Is this real? I don't know.
https://defence-blog.com/russian-pilots-use-us-made-gps-receives-during-combat-missions-in-syria/

yes, andrewfi, starts out all of his rebuttals with insults.  I suppose we can leave it up to the reader to determine what he is compensating for  :biggrin:

the trouble with the recent photograph taken of downed plane in Ukraine with Garmin, is the one article link says that the photo is from 2016
"The images were allegedly taken in 2016, a few seconds before the KAB-500KR strike on the bridge across the Euphrates river in Syrian Raqqa"
besides, the photo of the Garmin was not taped, but clamped instead

that same article mentioned a Russian drone with duct tape and a plastic bottle cap for a fuel tank lid (I saw that vid, comical if true).

I do not know that 2022 Russian combat aircraft are still flying with US Garmins like the article implies, but 6 year old photo does not prove that.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: POW swap? Su-34 and Garmin
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2022, 04:40:53 PM »
Where's the picture of a Russian plane with a GPS unit stuck to the control panel?

Westcoast, are you really so gullible? So easily led?

I understand that this rubbish might be want you want to believe, but it just makes you look like a fool. And yes, you're not alone, there's many, many, fools around.

You know this is wrong or deliberate fraud by the Ukrainians and/or NATO because? Your many years in the Royal Air Force as a pilot? Your years serving in Whitehall?

This is being reported. Where's your proof it's wrong? You claim to have been in the news business at one time. Why not do some investigative reporting and show positive proof this is fake news.

Andy, we both know what you're going to do. Either ignore this post entirely or post some insult and never post anything refuting it.

You and Manny are upset because for years you two have been saying that Russia is not going to invade Ukraine. Then out of nowhere Putin goes and invades Ukraine and Russia is getting bested by Ukraine.


https://eurasiantimes.com/su-34-fighter-jet-shockingly-found-with-gps-taped-to-dashboard/

From the above link:

Last year, a Russian Nationalist Politician and Soviet Air Force veteran, Viktor Alksnis drew attention to the images of the Su-34’s cockpit during combat operations in Syria, writing on Facebook that military pilots were using commercial GPS receivers during their combat operations.

“This is a popular travel navigator Garmin eTrex Venture HC worth about 10,000 rubles,” Alksnis added.

Experts later confirmed that the photos show a US-manufactured GPS receiver developed by the Garmin company.
This navigation system is a civilian navigation machine used by aviation enthusiasts. In addition to positioning navigation, it also provides weather and terrain warning service; because there is a European database, it is suitable for use in Europe and the nearby regions.

Garmin says that with its high-sensitivity, WAAS-enabled GPS receiver, eTrex Legend locates position quickly and precisely and maintains its GPS location even in heavy cover and deep canyons.

Note the article quotes a Russian nationalist politician and Soviet Air Force veteran. Maybe he's a CIA double agent? Maybe he's being paid a few rubles (USD?) by someone to discredit Russia?

The article below shows the same photo as in the eurasiantimes.com article. In this article from Aug 1, 2021, Viktor Alksnis says during combat missions in Syria Russian pilots used an American Garmin GPS receiver to duplicate their onboard navigation systems, which reportedly often malfunctioned in real combat conditions.

Is this real? I don't know.
https://defence-blog.com/russian-pilots-use-us-made-gps-receives-during-combat-missions-in-syria/

yes, andrewfi, starts out all of his rebuttals with insults.  I suppose we can leave it up to the reader to determine what he is compensating for  :biggrin:

the trouble with the recent photograph taken of downed plane in Ukraine with Garmin, is the one article link says that the photo is from 2016
"The images were allegedly taken in 2016, a few seconds before the KAB-500KR strike on the bridge across the Euphrates river in Syrian Raqqa"
besides, the photo of the Garmin was not taped, but clamped instead

that same article mentioned a Russian drone with duct tape and a plastic bottle cap for a fuel tank lid (I saw that vid, comical if true).

I do not know that 2022 Russian combat aircraft are still flying with US Garmins like the article implies, but 6 year old photo does not prove that.

I agree a 6 year old photo does not prove that in 2022 Russian combat planes are using American GPS receivers to find their way around Ukrainian territory. However, if the Russians were having to use American GPS receivers in their combat aircraft in Syria 6 years ago it might still be true today.

As we've seen in Ukraine, Russian military equipment is in bad shape and Russian soldiers don't appear to be well trained in the operation of their own equipment.

When the Russians were in Syria I remember seeing videos of the Russian military fighting the Islamic State and the Russians seemed so good against IS. The western news was saying if the west had to fight Russia we'd be facing well trained battle hardened Russian soldiers.

What happened to those soldiers? Did they all retire? Did the Russian military not train the next generation of Russian soldiers as well as they trained those who fought in Syria?
andrewfi says ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."

That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.

Offline yankee

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Re: POW swap?
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2022, 09:33:29 PM »
Why would Russia be using GPS when they have GLONASS?
What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?

Offline WestCoast

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Re: POW swap?
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2022, 09:40:15 PM »
Why would Russia be using GPS when they have GLONASS?

In the article it says that some of the Russian pilots don't find GLONASS is as reliable as the American Garmin and "the inbuilt navigation system doesn’t meet the requirements of the Russian military, probably due to problems with the hardware or the imperfections in the data information of the electronic map." So the Russian pilots are using Garmin as a backup and enhancement of the GLONASS system.

https://eurasiantimes.com/su-34-fighter-jet-shockingly-found-with-gps-taped-to-dashboard/
andrewfi says ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."

That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.

Offline Lon

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POW swap? in the article
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2022, 10:31:16 PM »
Why would Russia be using GPS when they have GLONASS?

In the article it says that some of the Russian pilots don't find GLONASS is as reliable as the American Garmin and "the inbuilt navigation system doesn’t meet the requirements of the Russian military, probably due to problems with the hardware or the imperfections in the data information of the electronic map." So the Russian pilots are using Garmin as a backup and enhancement of the GLONASS system.

https://eurasiantimes.com/su-34-fighter-jet-shockingly-found-with-gps-taped-to-dashboard/

also in the article
"Reports suggest that the GLONASS satellite constellation has been underfunded for years and could not ensure sufficient accuracy, because of which, during its operations in Syria, Russia had to build differential correction stations across Syria to enhance GLONASS’s accuracy by 30 to 40%"

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Re: POW swap? in the article
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2022, 04:50:12 AM »
Why would Russia be using GPS when they have GLONASS?

In the article it says that some of the Russian pilots don't find GLONASS is as reliable as the American Garmin and "the inbuilt navigation system doesn’t meet the requirements of the Russian military, probably due to problems with the hardware or the imperfections in the data information of the electronic map." So the Russian pilots are using Garmin as a backup and enhancement of the GLONASS system.

https://eurasiantimes.com/su-34-fighter-jet-shockingly-found-with-gps-taped-to-dashboard/

also in the article
"Reports suggest that the GLONASS satellite constellation has been underfunded for years and could not ensure sufficient accuracy, because of which, during its operations in Syria, Russia had to build differential correction stations across Syria to enhance GLONASS’s accuracy by 30 to 40%"

Thats highly unbelievable , because GLONASS just like its European and GPS counterparts use Satellites, groundstations are useless because they can't adjust for earths horizon.
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POW swap? facts in the article
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2022, 11:09:34 AM »
also in the article
"Reports suggest that the GLONASS satellite constellation has been underfunded for years and could not ensure sufficient accuracy, because of which, during its operations in Syria, Russia had to build differential correction stations across Syria to enhance GLONASS’s accuracy by 30 to 40%"

Thats highly unbelievable , because GLONASS just like its European and GPS counterparts use Satellites, groundstations are useless because they can't adjust for earths horizon.

I suppose facts are hard to believe
and I suppose that you believe your phone to be GPS enabled also?

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Re: POW swap? facts in the article
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2022, 11:27:25 AM »
also in the article
"Reports suggest that the GLONASS satellite constellation has been underfunded for years and could not ensure sufficient accuracy, because of which, during its operations in Syria, Russia had to build differential correction stations across Syria to enhance GLONASS's accuracy by 30 to 40%"

Thats highly unbelievable , because GLONASS just like its European and GPS counterparts use Satellites, groundstations are useless because they can't adjust for earths horizon.

I suppose facts are hard to believe
and I suppose that you believe your phone to be GPS enabled also?

I hope you are not suggesting that GPS receivers are taped into the Russian rockets and missiles for the purposes of targeting?
What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?

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Re: POW swap? facts in the article
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2022, 02:42:52 PM »
also in the article
"Reports suggest that the GLONASS satellite constellation has been underfunded for years and could not ensure sufficient accuracy, because of which, during its operations in Syria, Russia had to build differential correction stations across Syria to enhance GLONASS’s accuracy by 30 to 40%"

Thats highly unbelievable , because GLONASS just like its European and GPS counterparts use Satellites, groundstations are useless because they can't adjust for earths horizon.

I suppose facts are hard to believe
and I suppose that you believe your phone to be GPS enabled also?
I do hope you know how trigonometry works? If not , look it up.

And a phone's GPS is not really a GPS because it has no clear line-of-sight to the satellites inside your pants-pocket. So yeah they use cell towers instead.

I expect a plane high in the sky to have clear line of sight to any satellite with a much better view any ground station has.
If a portable GPS was taped somewhere inside the plane, it would need to be on the glass so it has a maximum view area of satellites, that can't be in a convenient spot for the pilot.

So taped to the dashboard? that will be nearly unusable, it has false-flag written all over it

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GPS(Global Positioning System) is a satellite-based navigation system. It provides time and location-based information to a GPS receiver, located anywhere on or near the earth surface. GPS works in all weather conditions, provided there is an unobstructed line of sight communication with 4 or more GPS satellites. GPS is managed by the US Air Force.

https://www.geeksforgeeks.org/how-gps-works/
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Re: POW swap?
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2022, 03:01:54 PM »
I tend to doubt that a fighter pilot of any nationality would use an off the shelf Garmin product. Most seem to have built in AIS/ADS features. Not exactly handy if you are attempting to avoid revealing your course, altitude, and speed.
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Re: POW swap?
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2022, 03:09:03 PM »
I tend to doubt that a fighter pilot of any nationality would use an off the shelf Garmin product. Most seem to have built in AIS/ADS features. Not exactly handy if you are attempting to avoid revealing your course, altitude, and speed.

Not to mention that those things are not made for speeds above 200kph.

They update way too slow at those speeds.
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Online Steveboy

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Re: POW swap?
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2022, 03:44:11 PM »
Well nothing surprises me.. so the Western news says Russia often use outdated stuff during wars..

I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!

Offline Lon

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POW swap? follow the convo
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2022, 04:41:37 PM »
also in the article
"Reports suggest that the GLONASS satellite constellation has been underfunded for years and could not ensure sufficient accuracy, because of which, during its operations in Syria, Russia had to build differential correction stations across Syria to enhance GLONASS's accuracy by 30 to 40%"

Thats highly unbelievable , because GLONASS just like its European and GPS counterparts use Satellites, groundstations are useless because they can't adjust for earths horizon.

I suppose facts are hard to believe
and I suppose that you believe your phone to be GPS enabled also?

I hope you are not suggesting that GPS receivers are taped into the Russian rockets and missiles for the purposes of targeting?

lost me....nobody mentioned Russian rockets or missiles

I was refuting that ground based stations would not work. I guess I was too vague


 

 

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