Is Ukraine's War Now America's War?

[Wiz]

Is Ukraine's War Now America's War?

Last week, sources leaked to The New York Times that, in Ukraine's targeting and killing of Russian generals and the sinking of Russia's Black Sea flagship, the Moskva, U.S. intelligence played an indispensable role.

Apparently, our intel people identified and located for the Ukrainian forces what became the targets of their deadly attacks.

Why U.S. intelligence would do this seems inexplicable.

By claiming credit for Ukraine's most visible military successes, we diminish the achievements of that country's own forces.

By bragging publicly that we helped engineer the killing of Russian generals and the sinking of the cruiser Moskva, we taunt Russian President Vladimir Putin. We provoke him into retaliating in kind against us, thereby raising the possibility of a wider U.S.-Russia war that could escalate into World War III.

Moreover, U.S. boasting like this plays right into Putin's narrative that Russia is facing and fighting in Ukraine a U.S.-led alliance that is out to crush Russia.

Indeed, why are we going beyond assistance to the Ukrainians in defending themselves, into making this American's war?

When Speaker Nancy Pelosi arrived in Poland following her visit to Kiev, she virtually embraced the idea of the Ukraine-Russia war as now being America's war, declaring, "America stands with Ukraine. We stand with Ukraine until victory is won."

Accompanying Pelosi to Kiev was a delegation of House Democrats, one of whom, Rep. Jason Crow of Colorado, echoed Pelosi in Poland:

"The United States of America is in this to win."

Their visit followed that of Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, who came out of Kiev and declared the U.S. strategic goals in Ukraine's war:

"We want to see Russia weakened to the degree that it can't do the kind of things it has done in invading Ukraine."

These statements by U.S. leaders reinforce Putin's line that Russia is besieged by a U.S.-led Western alliance that fears and detests Mother Russia and wishes to see her defeated and diminished.

Our enemies in the West who seek to destroy Russia are like those we fought in the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945, Putin now claims. And intervention in Ukraine was necessary to prevent today's neo-Nazis from dragging Ukraine into their larger conspiracy to destroy Russia.

Consider Putin's words of a week ago:

"The forces that have always pursued a policy of containing Russia do not want such a huge and independent country that is too big for their ideas. They believe it endangers them simply by the fact of its existence, although this is far from reality. It is they who endanger the world."

We are hated for who and what we are, says Putin. And our military operation is an act of legitimate self-defense against the same kind of "Nazi filth" we fought in the Great Patriotic War.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov describes the recent surge in heavy Western weapons shipments to Ukraine as "NATO going to war with Russia through a proxy and arming that proxy."

By cutting Republicans out of her delegation to Kiev, Pelosi appears to want to make the war not only America's war, but her party's cause.

That seems to be a motive as well behind Biden's consciously exceeding any Western leader in the language he uses on Putin, calling him a "killer," a "murderous dictator," a "pure thug," a "butcher," a "war criminal," guilty of "genocide," who "for God's sake cannot remain in power."

Such language is designed to showcase Biden as the world's leading anti-Putinist and the most morally outraged of all the world's leaders at what Russia is doing in Ukraine.

But, again, like the public boasting of U.S. intel agents over our role in the sinking of the Moskva and killing of the Russian generals, the effect is to disqualify the U.S. president from any role in negotiating a truce or an end to this war.

How do we benefit from having no leader-to-leader communication with the Kremlin, which President John F. Kennedy retained in the Cuban missile crisis to end it?

NATO Europe, which is supporting the Ukrainian resistance, is not on board with the U.S. plans to cripple Russia permanently.

America needs to recognize that our objectives in this war are not the same as Ukraine's.

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy would like to have the U.S. plunge in and fight alongside Kiev, devastate and defeat the Russian army, and expel Russia not only from the regions invaded this year but also from Crimea, which Putin annexed in 2014 .

America's vital interests in this war, however, are to prevent it from becoming a U.S.-Russia war or a third world war or a nuclear war.

The U.S. goal of imposing a crushing defeat of Russian aggression is secondary to our far more vital interest in avoiding a U.S.-Russia war.

America's interests are best served by an early and negotiated peace. Such a goal rules out imposing humiliating terms on Russia, which cause Moscow and Putin to escalate militarily to survive politically.


PAT BUCHANAN %u2022 MAY 10, 2022
Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of "Nixon's White House Wars:
The Battles That Made and Broke a President and Divided America Forever."

[dorbradavid]

Is Ukraine's War Now America's War?

It's certainly the american taxpayers war. $33 billion of weapons is being paid for by you and me.   

[Texan77]

Last week, sources leaked to The New York Times that, in Ukraine's targeting and killing of Russian generals and the sinking of Russia's Black Sea flagship, the Moskva, U.S. intelligence played an indispensable role.

I thought you thought all USA news was fake. Do you really believed anything was leaked or was it just made up? The Russian ship was not sunk by anyone because it just had a fire. Russian generals want to lead men and therefore get killed more often. USA is a weak nation and able to fight Russia. Our dollar died a couple weeks ago and everyone living in the USA is poor now.

[Wiz]

Last week, sources leaked to The New York Times that, in Ukraine's targeting and killing of Russian generals and the sinking of Russia's Black Sea flagship, the Moskva, U.S. intelligence played an indispensable role.

I thought you thought all USA news was fake. Do you really believed anything was leaked or was it just made up? The Russian ship was not sunk by anyone because it just had a fire. Russian generals want to lead men and therefore get killed more often. USA is a weak nation and able to fight Russia. Our dollar died a couple weeks ago and everyone living in the USA is poor now.

Obviously you do not read the full article neighter you know who wrote it:   

Just to help you:

PAT BUCHANAN 2022 MAY 10, 2022
Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of "Nixon's White House Wars:
The Battles That Made and Broke a President and Divided America Forever."

 

[Texan77]

Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of "Nixon's White House Wars:
The Battles That Made and Broke a President and Divided America Forever."

 

Patrick J. Buchanan is right. America is divided. We have north America and south America. 

[Wiz]

Patrick J. Buchanan is the author of "Nixon's White House Wars:
The Battles That Made and Broke a President and Divided America Forever."

 

Patrick J. Buchanan is right. America is divided. We have north America and south America. 

And you as usual talking bollocs........and nothing of interest! 

[Wiz]

Ukraine war Russia opened a new chapter  in history'
says UK PM as he signs deals to protect Sweden and Finland

Boris Johnson faces an economic crisis at home as the cost
 of living soars but he insisted that letting Putin get away
with his barbaric behaviour was not the answer

Pressed on the rationale of supporting Ukraine while people in Britain are squeezed by the cost of living crisis, the PM pledged that "of course, there will be more support in the months ahead" Info from Sky News:

Delusions of Grandeur?, from the Clown who slowly destroyes his own country!.. (my view)

(Delusions of grandeur are when you believe that you have more power, wealth, smart, or other grand traits than is true.)

[Wiz]

The United States is principally responsible
for creating the crisis in Ukraine

,

According to the University of Chicago political science professor John Mearsheimer, and it has no current interest in reaching a negotiated settlement now.

Mearsheimer sees US sanctions against Moscow as an attempt to knock Russia out of the ranks of the great powers.

The way he sees it, the US has declared war against Russia, in effect, but the Ukrainian people are doing the fighting.

Join host Steve Clemons for this wide-ranging conversation about how both sides consider themselves locked in an existential threat, with no way out.

 

[andrewfi]

The way he sees it, the US has declared war against Russia, in effect, but the Ukrainian people are doing the fighting.

No great secret there.
The Russians have said the same thing and increasingly, make no secret of their understanding that this is just one element of a larger conflict.

It is clear that in their diplomacy, at least in public, they used to refer to conflicts such as Georgia, Syria, Khazakstan and Ukraine as being localised matters.

At the same time, Russian policymaking appeared very much to depict a different interpretation of events. All that is really happening is that the USA is now making it clear that their interventions and meddling have all been focused on a larger goal than each specific smaller matter.

[Lon]

Is Ukraine's War Now America's War?

Last week, sources leaked to The New York Times that, in Ukraine's targeting and killing of Russian generals and the sinking of Russia's Black Sea flagship, the Moskva, U.S. intelligence played an indispensable role.

Apparently, our intel people identified and located for the Ukrainian forces what became the targets of their deadly attacks.

Why U.S. intelligence would do this seems inexplicable.

By claiming credit for Ukraine's most visible military successes, we diminish the achievements of that country's own forces.

By bragging publicly that we helped engineer the killing of Russian generals and the sinking of the cruiser Moskva, we taunt Russian President Vladimir Putin. We provoke him into retaliating in kind against us, thereby raising the possibility of a wider U.S.-Russia war that could escalate into World War III.

Moreover, U.S. boasting like this plays right into Putin's narrative that Russia is facing and fighting in Ukraine a U.S.-led alliance that is out to crush Russia.

Indeed, why are we going beyond assistance to the Ukrainians in defending themselves, into making this American's war?

When Speaker Nancy Pelosi arrived in Poland following her visit to Kiev, she virtually embraced the idea of the Ukraine-Russia war as now being America's war, declaring, "America stands with Ukraine. We stand with Ukraine until victory is won."

Accompanying Pelosi to Kiev was a delegation of House Democrats, one of whom, Rep. Jason Crow of Colorado, echoed Pelosi in Poland:

"The United States of America is in this to win."

Their visit followed that of Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin, who came out of Kiev and declared the U.S. strategic goals in Ukraine's war:

"We want to see Russia weakened to the degree that it can't do the kind of things it has done in invading Ukraine."

These statements by U.S. leaders reinforce Putin's line that Russia is besieged by a U.S.-led Western alliance that fears and detests Mother Russia and wishes to see her defeated and diminished.

this is very old news and has been mentioned before.  everyone already knows/knew this.

Our enemies in the West who seek to destroy Russia are like those we fought in the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945, Putin now claims. And intervention in Ukraine was necessary to prevent today's neo-Nazis from dragging Ukraine into their larger conspiracy to destroy Russia.

Consider Putin's words of a week ago:

"The forces that have always pursued a policy of containing Russia do not want such a huge and independent country that is too big for their ideas. They believe it endangers them simply by the fact of its existence, although this is far from reality. It is they who endanger the world."

We are hated for who and what we are, says Putin. And our military operation is an act of legitimate self-defense against the same kind of "Nazi filth" we fought in the Great Patriotic War.

the whole remove the nazis from Ukraine has been debunked already

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov describes the recent surge in heavy Western weapons shipments to Ukraine as "NATO going to war with Russia through a proxy and arming that proxy."

proxy war" where have we heard that before?  all through out recent history.  do we need to list all the countries that have done that in the last 100 years?  or will you just blame the USA for all the worlds ills again?

By cutting Republicans out of her delegation to Kiev, Pelosi appears to want to make the war not only America's war, but her party's cause.

That seems to be a motive as well behind Biden's consciously exceeding any Western leader in the language he uses on Putin, calling him a "killer," a "murderous dictator," a "pure thug," a "butcher," a "war criminal," guilty of "genocide," who "for God's sake cannot remain in power."

Such language is designed to showcase Biden as the world's leading anti-Putinist and the most morally outraged of all the world's leaders at what Russia is doing in Ukraine.

But, again, like the public boasting of U.S. intel agents over our role in the sinking of the Moskva and killing of the Russian generals, the effect is to disqualify the U.S. president from any role in negotiating a truce or an end to this war.

How do we benefit from having no leader-to-leader communication with the Kremlin, which President John F. Kennedy retained in the Cuban missile crisis to end it?

yes, this is the demoncrats war

no, it would not disqualify the US president from negotiating.  only if the the participants decide that.  you, Wiz, or Buchanan would not decide that.
it would be nice if some negotiating was going on, but I remember other participants refusing to come to the table.  or only trying use it as a delaying tactic.
what does JFK have to do with this?

NATO Europe, which is supporting the Ukrainian resistance, is not on board with the U.S. plans to cripple Russia permanently.

America needs to recognize that our objectives in this war are not the same as Ukraine's.

President Volodymyr Zelenskyy would like to have the U.S. plunge in and fight alongside Kiev, devastate and defeat the Russian army, and expel Russia not only from the regions invaded this year but also from Crimea, which Putin annexed in 2014 .

America's vital interests in this war, however, are to prevent it from becoming a U.S.-Russia war or a third world war or a nuclear war.

The U.S. goal of imposing a crushing defeat of Russian aggression is secondary to our far more vital interest in avoiding a U.S.-Russia war.

America's interests are best served by an early and negotiated peace. Such a goal rules out imposing humiliating terms on Russia, which cause Moscow and Putin to escalate militarily to survive politically.[/size]

how do you or Buchanan know what the EU is on board with?

America does recognize their own objectives.

did president Zelensky tell you or Buchanan that they wanted the US to plunge in?

The United States is principally responsible
for creating the crisis in Ukraine

well, there you go again, blaming all the worlds ills on the USA.  it is a deep, wide mud pit with a lot of pigs in it.

According to the University of Chicago political science professor John Mearsheimer, and it has no current interest in reaching a negotiated settlement now.

Mearsheimer sees US sanctions against Moscow as an attempt to knock Russia out of the ranks of the great powers.

The way he sees it, the US has declared war against Russia, in effect, but the Ukrainian people are doing the fighting.

no, the US demoncrats have no interest in negotiation.  the longer this war goes on, the worse it becomes for Russia and, just coincidently, Ukraine.  and the more money the demoncrats make

Russia is not a great power, has not been for many years, but no one has had proof until recently with there "special operation".  anyone visiting Russia could see that they were no longer a great power, perhaps a strong regional power.  even that is open for debate.

the US declared war?  hmmm...perhaps.  but Russia was not going to let all those energy deposits go to the west.  and the civilians are dying for that greed, west and Russian.

[Wiz]

The United States is principally responsible
for creating the crisis in Ukraine

well, there you go again, blaming all the worlds ills on the USA.  it is a deep, wide mud pit with a lot of pigs in it.

According to the University of Chicago political science professor John Mearsheimer, and it has no current interest in reaching a negotiated settlement now.

Mearsheimer sees US sanctions against Moscow as an attempt to knock Russia out of the ranks of the great powers.

The way he sees it, the US has declared war against Russia, in effect, but the Ukrainian people are doing the fighting.

no, the US demoncrats have no interest in negotiation.  the longer this war goes on, the worse it becomes for Russia and, just coincidently, Ukraine.  and the more money the demoncrats make

Russia is not a great power, has not been for many years, but no one has had proof until recently with there "special operation".  anyone visiting Russia could see that they were no longer a great power, perhaps a strong regional power.  even that is open for debate.

the US declared war?  hmmm...perhaps.  but Russia was not going to let all those energy deposits go to the west.  and the civilians are dying for that greed, west and Russian.

As you must have noticed I am not using Russian news or sources but mostly Americans.

it is not my fault that you do not have the Mental capacity to understand even US sources and language therefore next time do not bother posting anything disputing my writings or other western people's writings as you you don't have a clue what we/they are talking about!

Take another read to your own comments, highlighted above, and go to your toilet and have a talk.

On this board there are many interesting people posting but not the kind of your quality and crap.

Sorry I have better things to do with my life!

Putin and Russia are doing what is best for their country.... Check the Value of the Rubble.

Then .....Just for your information......if you can understand... check the reality for your own country!

Yesterday I watched this video...... and the NEWS for USA are very BAD.

BREAKING NEWS.  16 June 2022 at 21.00 GMT

"Armageddon" came today to the US stock markets, where at the moment, at 22:10 pm, Greek time, we have a very large fall in all three key indexes, showing signs of panic, where the latter is called to "close the door ", after the Dow Jones fell by -2.66%, the S&P 500 by -3.91% and Nasdaq by -4.31%.

All this, according to financial websites, due to the intense concerns, for further increase of the interest rates by Fed, in order to try to hold the inflation, which has really gone out of limits, in the US and secondly due to the fear that the move by Russian state-owned Gazprom brought, to reduce gas supplies to Germany and Italy, and in addition, there was a statement by a Russian official, that the tap of North Stream 1 could be turn off completely, which means that it will create a huge problem in the German economy, mercilessly hitting its industry.

Armageddon for USA

Have a nice day and do not bother me again with your crap.

 

[Wiz]

BREAKING NEWS.

According to reports in the Greek media, which have their source in the Reuters news agency, the flow of Russian gas to France has stopped completely, after the recent reduction of supply to Germany, by Gazprom, as through France imported the gas.

More specifically, as reported by the news website Liberal.gr, the French pipeline company GRTgaz, issued an announcement today, which included the following:
"Since June 15, GRTgaz has recorded an interruption of the natural flow between France and Germany.

This flow amounted to about 60 GWh / d (gigawatt hours per day) at the beginning of 2022, which corresponds to only 10% of the total capacity at the interconnection point».

Although the company is trying to reassure the public that the cessation of imports of Russian gas is not a problem, at least for the Summer, the markets rather consider that the situation is very serious, and so the price of gas, today jumped above 130 euros / MWh.

So, no more Russian gas for France, in this energy war, which has begun and which finds Europe, completely unprepared, despite the rhetoric of its leadership.

Bonjour Monsieur Macron et également bonjour mes amis français !

Good morning Mr Macron and Also good Morning my French friends!

Atu taller........

and of course

Our PM Boris of course must be proud making a surprise visit to Kiev yesterday!He is doing a good job for his Master......Biden

The day before Yelenski was very excited...(take close look at the photo)
when  meeting his visitors,Macron and his companion, German Sultz and the Italian PM.





 

[andrewfi]

Looks like somebody had taken a little stiffener before receiving his guests.

[Wiz]

Looks like somebody had taken a little stiffener before receiving his guests.

He has a very exiting job and so many important visitors!.....LOL
 

[Jonas!]

yes, this is the demoncrats war

no, the US demoncrats have no interest in negotiation.  the longer this war goes on, the worse it becomes for Russia and, just coincidently, Ukraine.  and the more money the demoncrats make
 

I really don't really think this is a 'dims' issue...although I think biden has mismanaged it badly. 
t-rump might have been more likely to negotiate with Putin and ignore Europe.   no way to say really. 
the current consequence both long term and short term seem to bode very badly for the USA. 

Jonas!   

[AvHdB]

Lon, in fairness the words you quote above from Wiz #9, are in fact those of P. Buchanan a former failed politician and cabinet member.

[Wiz]

MORE bad News for the USA!

The Jimmy Dore Show

Russia and Ukraine together account for a significant portion of the fertilizer and grain sold around the globe, and the effects of the Ukraine War are being felt in the form of reduced exports of these vital commodities. Facing shortages at home, the Biden administration has now been reduced to begging Vladimir Putin to increase exports of fertilizer and to allow more Ukrainian grain to be shipped overseas.

Jimmy and American comedian Kurt Metzger discuss the way the Ukraine War has reduced US diplomatic efforts to begging from ostensibly dictatorial leaders like Putin, Mohammed bin Salman and Venezuela’s Maduro.

 

[AvHdB]

Earlier I posted on this topic, not entirely sure why BS gets so often repeated.

Production volume of nitrogen fertilizer worldwide in 2018, by country

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1252656/nitrogen-fertilizer-production-by-country/

[Contrarian]

Lon, in fairness the words you quote above from Wiz #9, are in fact those of P. Buchanan a former failed politician and cabinet member.

Patrick J. Buchanan is not a "failed politician and cabinet member".

He is well respected and influential with those who long for a return to Constitutional roots.


https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/churchill-hitler-and-the-unnecessary-war-how-britain-lost-its-empire-and-the-west-lost-the-world_patrick-j-buchanan/268700/item/4642661/?gclid=CjwKCAjw77WVBhBuEiwAJ-YoJNF-MZQoCkS7x4W_YVrlHkXSOm7_4r3F7OJt5xaOPG4GtkdVYtSbPxoCXSEQAvD_BwE#idiq=18676355&edition=5075876


https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/a-republic--not-an-empire-reclaiming-americas-destiny_patrick-j-buchanan/504764/#edition=1506411&idiq=997283

[dorbradavid]

yes, this is the demoncrats war

no, the US demoncrats have no interest in negotiation.  the longer this war goes on, the worse it becomes for Russia and, just coincidently, Ukraine.  and the more money the demoncrats make
 

I really don't really think this is a 'dims' issue...although I think biden has mismanaged it badly. 
t-rump might have been more likely to negotiate with Putin and ignore Europe.   no way to say really. 
the current consequence both long term and short term seem to bode very badly for the USA. 

Jonas!

Sadly, I agree with your both. The dems made money on flogging the Haiti situation, and know they're doing the same with Ukraine. 

[Jonas!]

MORE bad News for the USA!

The Jimmy Dore Show

Russia and Ukraine together account for a significant portion of the fertilizer and grain sold around the globe, and the effects of the Ukraine War are being felt in the form of reduced exports of these vital commodities. Facing shortages at home, the Biden administration has now been reduced to begging Vladimir Putin to increase exports of fertilizer and to allow more Ukrainian grain to be shipped overseas.

Jimmy and American comedian Kurt Metzger discuss the way the Ukraine War has reduced US diplomatic efforts to begging from ostensibly dictatorial leaders like Putin, Mohammed bin Salman and Venezuela’s Maduro.

 

Overall the US is in a tight spot now.  there is no way to not look like hypocrites now.   Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Iran, China, and more...all these 'enemies' that we are forced to suck up to.   not many countries with resources are going to give us great deals now that our economy is falling apart.   Gas prices are going to cause a severe repercussion if they don't decrease soon.   Biden must be aware of this, yet can't do much without looking like a suck up. 

Jonas!   

[Lon]

utube headline   

The Kremlin's worst nightmare has come true! F16 and F15 AFU struск Russian bаsеs.

nice click bait title.
about a 1:10 in, it talks about a congressman registering a bill into congress to allow Ukrainian pilots to train on F15's, F16's and other aircraft.

[cufflinks]

Ukraine is Biden's disaster!
Jun 21, 2022  Col Doug Macgregor

[Wiz]

Overall the US is in a tight spot now.  there is no way to not look like hypocrites now.   Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Iran, China, and more...all these 'enemies' that we are forced to suck up to.   not many countries with resources are going to give us great deals now that our economy is falling apart.   Gas prices are going to cause a severe repercussion if they don't decrease soon.   Biden must be aware of this, yet can't do much without looking like a suck up. 

Jonas!

Finnaly an honest opinion about the current world conditions in connection with the USA and its "Democratic" Biden Government!
And the next post proves what you said.....

The Ukraine operation by USA that started in 2004 will finnaly comeback to bite the US backside and will be its dissaster.

[dorbradavid]

The way he sees it, the US has declared war against Russia, in effect, but the Ukrainian people are doing the fighting.

Join host Steve Clemons for this wide-ranging conversation about how both sides consider themselves locked in an existential threat, with no way out.

 

Sadly, John M. and Col (Ret) Macgregor tend to be pretty credible. It doesn't help that our current administration is being run by a bunch of 20-somethings.