Roe versus Wade

[AvHdB]

In the United States abortion rights are becoming the largest topic and most likely will eclipse the war in Ukraine.

While a leaked preliminary opinion indicates giving the rights back to the individual states it has the potential to become an explosive issue for the midterm elections in November. Contrarian has strong views here but he is not active presently. Curious to know others thoughts and views.

[Markje]

In the United States abortion rights are becoming the largest topic and most likely will eclipse the war in Ukraine.

While a leaked preliminary opinion indicates giving the rights back to the individual states it has the potential to become an explosive issue for the midterm elections in November. Contrarian has strong views here but he is not active presently. Curious to know others thoughts and views.

As long as the Fetus isn't viable life yet, abortion should be legal. Most countries in Europe have the 20-week mark as an easy rule of thumb for that , as most babies can survive abortion from 24 weeks onward.

[Bodine]

In the United States abortion rights are becoming the largest topic and most likely will eclipse the war in Ukraine.

While a leaked preliminary opinion indicates giving the rights back to the individual states it has the potential to become an explosive issue for the midterm elections in November. Contrarian has strong views here but he is not active presently. Curious to know others thoughts and views.

First off, it's strangely mystifying a 'leak' came out of the Supreme Court. Especially about a hotly contested subject as 'abortion'. Had I been a betting man, I'd bet the farm this was a desperate and deliberate attempt by the DNC, considering the bashing they know they face this mid-term election, to unleash a controversial topic to rally its base and hopefully avert what was inevitable.

Having said that, as a 'conservative' American male, I support a woman's decision in what and how she deals with her own being. But at the same token, I will be as adamant in the belief that if this 'woman' is allowed to do what she pleases, no one else ought to be held accountable and responsible for that decision/choice. She, and the man she's with, can and should *afford* all the cost of their decision whether emotionally, physically and financially. Especially for those who are pro-life, they should not be burdened and held responsible, in any way, of other's decision/s.

Rape and sexual predation/violation are different circumstances.

[2tallbill]

In the United States abortion rights are becoming the largest topic and most likely will eclipse the war in Ukraine.

The Democrats are going to lose the House, the Senate and many, many
State and local races. The far left believes that this will save them from
losing all that power. So yes, they are going to push this for all it's worth.

Of course Team Biden and the far left will f#ck this up and have f#cked it
up. Some genius(es) decided that attacking people during mass in Catholic
churches would be a good idea. That was their go to idea, to get ordinary
nOn-cRaZy people to join their cause.

[2tallbill]

First off, it's strangely mystifying a 'leak' came out of the Supreme Court.

I would say that "leaking" the Justices home addresses was an equally belligerent
move.

[Lon]

New York Nadia has an interesting insight
with over 250 types of birth control and a morning after pill, why is abortion still being used as birth control?

[2tallbill]

As long as the Fetus isn't viable life yet, abortion should be legal. Most countries in Europe have the 20-week mark as an easy rule of thumb for that , as most babies can survive abortion from 24 weeks onward.

The USA is a constitutional republic, this is a constitutional question not a moral/
ethical/religious debate. The US constitution either allows a woman the ability to
have an abortion or it doesn't. The Constitution either protects the rights/life of
the unborn or it doesn't.

If the constitution says nothing either way then making laws about abortions
is left up to the individual states to decide.

[Markje]

New York Nadia has an interesting insight
with over 250 types of birth control and a morning after pill, why is abortion still being used as birth control?

Oh that one is easy: Neither of those 250 types are 100% bulletproof. Unwanted pregnancies WILL happen.

[Jonas!]

  The US constitution either allows a woman the ability to
have an abortion or it doesn't. The Constitution either protects the rights/life of
the unborn or it doesn't.

If the constitution says nothing either way then making laws about abortions
is left up to the individual states to decide.

...Nothing said in the 1700's about abortion of course since it wasn't even part of the discussion of the time.   Privacy was discussed in the 1700's though, and the modern Supreme court ruled that it was an invasion of a woman's privacy.   


Separate from this decision, my own opinion isn't very important.  I can see how a woman has her own personal reasons for an abortion, even if it doesn't set well with others.  Like most, I find later term abortions especially reprehensible.   We can't decide what an individual woman might do though so it is another imperfection in life. 

Jonas!   

[Lon]

New York Nadia has an interesting insight
with over 250 types of birth control and a morning after pill, why is abortion still being used as birth control?

Oh that one is easy: Neither of those 250 types are 100% bulletproof. Unwanted pregnancies WILL happen.

except abortion is being used as the 1st line of birth control rather than the last resort of "not bulletproof"   that was easy

[Markje]

except abortion is being used as the 1st line of birth control rather than the last resort of "not bulletproof"   that was easy

But the rules do not make that distinction, you make the rules for that 0.1% that are shit out of luck and get pregnant despite taking every precaution and with 400.000.000 people thats going to be a lot of unwanted pregnancies.

[Lon]

except abortion is being used as the 1st line of birth control rather than the last resort of "not bulletproof"   that was easy

But the rules do not make that distinction, you make the rules for that 0.1% that are shit out of luck and get pregnant despite taking every precaution and with 400.000.000 people thats going to be a lot of unwanted pregnancies.

400,000,000, where did that number come from?  I checked, only 330 million in US.  about half are women, right?  how many are birthing age, half again (I just checked, about 58% fertility rate)?  so your 400 million x .1% is a bit high.
330/2*.58*.1% = about 95,000
US has abortions 630,000 - 886,000 per year, per forbes

besides, you are assuming that removing Roe v Wade will make abortions illegal (SOL, your words)
what it really means is that it will take the legality away from a court system of a small number of judges.  it will put it back into the hands of the citizens (voters) to determine what they want.

[Markje]

except abortion is being used as the 1st line of birth control rather than the last resort of "not bulletproof"   that was easy

But the rules do not make that distinction, you make the rules for that 0.1% that are shit out of luck and get pregnant despite taking every precaution and with 400.000.000 people thats going to be a lot of unwanted pregnancies.

400,000,000, where did that number come from?  I checked, only 330 million in US.  about half are women, right?  how many are birthing age, half again (I just checked, about 58% fertility rate)?  so your 400 million x .1% is a bit high.
330/2*.58*.1% = about 95,000
US has abortions 630,000 - 886,000 per year, per forbes

besides, you are assuming that removing Roe v Wade will make abortions illegal (SOL, your words)
what it really means is that it will take the legality away from a court system of a small number of judges.  it will put it back into the hands of the citizens (voters) to determine what they want.

According to the web, there's about 80.000.000 fertile women in the united states. 0.1% of that, is 80.000 'accidents' per month. Since women are fertile 1ce per month. so thats 800.000 accidents / year. Now how many abortions again? Thats pretty damn close to the fail rate of the preventive measures, meaning >90% of all fertile women in the USA take birth control very seriously.

As to not making it illegal: you already know some states are already preparing their laws to make abortions illegal. Not a question of "if" but of "when".

[AvHdB]

except abortion is being used as the 1st line of birth control rather than the last resort of "not bulletproof"   that was easy

But the rules do not make that distinction, you make the rules for that 0.1% that are shit out of luck and get pregnant despite taking every precaution and with 400.000.000 people thats going to be a lot of unwanted pregnancies.

400,000,000, where did that number come from?  I checked, only 330 million in US.  about half are women, right?  how many are birthing age, half again (I just checked, about 58% fertility rate)?  so your 400 million x .1% is a bit high.
330/2*.58*.1% = about 95,000
US has abortions 630,000 - 886,000 per year, per forbes

besides, you are assuming that removing Roe v Wade will make abortions illegal (SOL, your words)
what it really means is that it will take the legality away from a court system of a small number of judges.  it will put it back into the hands of the citizens (voters) to determine what they want.

According to the web, there's about 80.000.000 fertile women in the united states. 0.1% of that, is 80.000 'accidents' per month. Since women are fertile 1ce per month. so thats 800.000 accidents / year. Now how many abortions again? Thats pretty damn close to the fail rate of the preventive measures, meaning >90% of all fertile women in the USA take birth control very seriously.

As to not making it illegal: you already know some states are already preparing their laws to make abortions illegal. Not a question of "if" but of "when".

Markje comes close to the reality on two points. As I understand what has been published the law will be returned to the individual states. Abortion will remain a legal option in the states that wish to allow it.

The other side and this was the case as well in the Soviet states abortion was/is the first line in birth control. This is too pathetic for words.

 

We are living in the 21st century!

[Lon]

except abortion is being used as the 1st line of birth control rather than the last resort of "not bulletproof"   that was easy

But the rules do not make that distinction, you make the rules for that 0.1% that are shit out of luck and get pregnant despite taking every precaution and with 400.000.000 people thats going to be a lot of unwanted pregnancies.

400,000,000, where did that number come from?  I checked, only 330 million in US.  about half are women, right?  how many are birthing age, half again (I just checked, about 58% fertility rate)?  so your 400 million x .1% is a bit high.
330/2*.58*.1% = about 95,000
US has abortions 630,000 - 886,000 per year, per forbes

besides, you are assuming that removing Roe v Wade will make abortions illegal (SOL, your words)
what it really means is that it will take the legality away from a court system of a small number of judges.  it will put it back into the hands of the citizens (voters) to determine what they want.

According to the web, there's about 80.000.000 fertile women in the united states. 0.1% of that, is 80.000 'accidents' per month. Since women are fertile 1ce per month. so thats 800.000 accidents / year. Now how many abortions again? Thats pretty damn close to the fail rate of the preventive measures, meaning >90% of all fertile women in the USA take birth control very seriously.

As to not making it illegal: you already know some states are already preparing their laws to make abortions illegal. Not a question of "if" but of "when".

to get those your numbers, you are assuming that all 80 million women are active every month.  how many are active?

and how many are already announcing that it will still be legal?  the governor of my state has already done so.

[Bodine]

to get those your numbers, you are assuming that all 80 million women are active every month.  how many are active?

and how many are already announcing that it will still be legal?  the governor of my state has already done so.

I saw in the news yesterday our governor, Gavin Newsom, doubled down on his declaration that California is a sanctuary state, and all those out-of-staters who wish to get an abortion are/will be welcome to California, and that we're supposed to bear the expenses not only for their medical procedure & care, but also for all their travel and accommodation expenses.

Imagine that!    This, along with providing full medical care for all illegal aliens, no questions asked.

Meanwhile, life on skidrow continues...

[Jonas!]

Meanwhile, life on skidrow continues...

So many of those idiots are making the choices that put themselves there on Skid Row.  Others fall upon hard luck.  Others are not competent enough to EVER be in general society.   Here in CA we have such a budget surplus, why not clear the streets of the idiots, Mental Institution for those that need it, drug rehab for others, jobs & housing for those that can manage it.   Choose one, or choose the firing squad, Tall Bill can be the executioner. 

Jonas!

[2tallbill]

...Nothing said in the 1700's about abortion of course since it wasn't even part of the discussion of the time.   Privacy was discussed in the 1700's though, and the modern Supreme court ruled that it was an invasion of a woman's privacy.   
Jonas!

Somehow, somebody leaked a draft from the Supremes before it was issued.
The leaked draft goes through the legal reasoning on overturning Roe v Wade.
Nobody knows if the final draft will exactly match what was leaked. 

You can read the leaked draft here and then comment on what you think
of the legal reasoning.
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21835435-scotus-initial-draft


According to the draft (in my opinion) they reversed Row v Wade because of
A. The nature of the original courts error (Skip to page 39 to read about this)
B. The quality of reasoning the originals court to make the ruling (Page 41) 
C. Workability, the ability for various states to incorporate the law (page 52)
D. The effect on other areas of the law (Page 58)
E. Reliance interests (Page 59)

[jseddy]

Abortion is a medical necessity at times. That will be outlawed in many red states and WILL end up killing women. Ohio did it in 2018 passing a law that made abortion equal to murder, forced doctors to reimplant ectopic pregnancies (a medical impossibility), and banned several forms of birth control. It was struck down by a judge but it will be back if Roe gets overturned. I believe Texas is planning to ban IVF as we speak because of the opinion leak. A law is being written in Oklahoma, I believe, that will force investigations into miscarriages.

The problem is that pro-life arguments tend to form around a moral objection to abortion whereas pro-choice tends to center on bodily autonomy. Hypothetically speaking, using abortion as a method of birth control wouldn't matter to the later, technically. Sure, it isn't moral and is irresponsible but so is popping plan B all the time.

[dorbradavid]

First off, it's strangely mystifying a 'leak' came out of the Supreme Court. Especially about a hotly contested subject as 'abortion'. Had I been a betting man, I'd bet the farm this was a desperate and deliberate attempt by the DNC, considering the bashing they know they face this mid-term election, to unleash a controversial topic to rally its base and hopefully avert what was inevitable.

Ya think? 

[B.B.]

A few thoughts.

A.  There is ONE, repeat ONE issue in American elections: the Economy.  Biden is a   ING DISASTER on the economy.  Inflation not seen since the Carter years. 

B.  Biden has cascading disasters: he ABANDONED US CITIZENS behind the wire in a terrorist controlled state.  He has a crisis on the border - because he sucks.  He has fentanyl crisis - because he sucks.  He has trafficking - because he sucks.  He has a crime problem - be cause he sucks.  He has an anergy crisis - because he sucks. He has a MASSIVE CRIME WAVE problem because the liberal Soros DAs and other assorted left wing faggots will not punish crime because that would hurt "black people" - never mind that blacks want to live in safe neighborhoods, too. 

C.  He has a Hunter problem - you need to find you a girl who loves you like Hunter loves his crack pipe:

D.  He has a "squad" problem.  Biden tacked left in the primaries because Kamala "I Suck Dick to Advance My Career" Harris attacked him and he never course corrected.  The American people DO NOT WANT the Squad's progressive bullshit. 

E.  He has a "Hispanic" problem because outside of California, Hispanics now vote narrowly in favor of the GOP.  Why?  Because Hispanics are relatively sane and don't want their sons coming home from school with female pronouns, etc.  This is why they have targeted "minority groups" with the new "Ministry of Truth" headed up by Scary Poppins.

F.  "But BB what about A-BORRRRRR-TION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Look, the opinion does not BAN abortion.  The only people who care about it are the ultra-left losers who think abortion is some sort of sacrament.  It is not.  Most pro-life people are...wait for it...WOMEN.  The people to whom abortion is sacrosanct are young women who do not want to bear the consequences of their own actions, fewer young men who want the same thing, and libtard faggots who aren't going to vote GOP anyway.

Conclusions: there will be a Red Wave in November.  Don't let the chattering classes fool you.  McCarthy will be the Speaker and McConnell will be the majority leader.  in 2,5 years, either Trump (Inshallah!) or DeSantis will be president and America will be BACK.

B/B

[jseddy]

"libtard faggots". What an absolutely asinine response to anything. And a hateful, disrespectful, dishonest, homophobic, and outrageously wrong post.

[B.B.]

"libtard faggots". What an absolutely asinine response to anything. And a hateful, disrespectful, dishonest, homophobic, and outrageously wrong post.

"Yes Doctor, we have FOUND the nerve!"

 

B/B

[Contrarian]

"libtard faggots". What an absolutely asinine response to anything. And a hateful, disrespectful, dishonest, homophobic, and outrageously wrong post.

"Yes Doctor, we have FOUND the nerve!"

 

B/B

I suspect he might be a "progressive". 

[2tallbill]