Ukrainian Losses

[Wiz]

“There’s NOTHING Left!” 600,000 Ukrainians DEAD! | Colonel Douglas Macgregor On The Ukraine War

Mon, April 29, 2024, 2:55 PM GMT+1

Today is my conversation with U.S. Army Colonel Retired Combat Veteran & CEO of OurCountryOurChoice.com, Colonel Douglas Macgregor. In this conversation, we discussed the escalating threat of World War III and ongoing conflicts worldwide. Additionally, we explored the sentiments of American veterans regarding the war machine and whether Americans are becoming more aware of the workings of the military-industrial complex.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/nothing-left-600-000-ukrainians-135559135.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9kdWNrZHVja2dvLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAADidPEyiioMKifrnCILaxT2OPumdpI80WbeyjpP8w39TUdVZCP_fC51Qi9IlxGs3PX-AYo6fBKAPnAd9N9FjkzBXEIINiUwyIn4genLlgPeqHDjzvPMN1FyxQDTqeZiIh88hHtETk6jelhmaeDbnWfa1EXRZZ6iQ7R1_bYeZlcx3

Texan.... enjoy listening his comments........and he is American.........

Can you please remind me if it was true That Texan people wanted to become independent some time ago???

[rosco]

This is just one of many internal problems in Russia where groups in Russia do not feel any love for Russia and want to be independent.

What's this guff, got to do with Ukrainian losses?

[AvHdB]

Tex is closer to the truth than many others. Early in the war Russia attempted to capture Kiev, its forces were unsuccessful.

That isn't true. They withdrew voluntarily from Kiev to further the pending peace agreement that Zelensky then reneged upon.

This is akin to stating the Nazi’s withdrew from Berlin in the closing days of World War2. Putin did not expect the Ukraine resistance and the West’s support of Zelensky.

As I learned 3P = Piss Poor Putin.

[B.B.]

Demonstrably not a war, why Kiev is untouched and Zelensky still in place. More of a Special Military Operation. Or as a chap I know said, "Tis but a border scuffle".

Yes yes, and Korea was a "police action" etc. 

Russia has several times tried to assassinate Ze, and failed.  If they took Kiev and captured the government, they could, one imagines, end the war quickly.  But alas, they have failed.

Kiev is now sending busloads of women to the front according to some videos I saw on X over the weekend. What a shame for them, it'll be a one-way ticket for many of them.

Hmm...I wonder if they are recruiting female convicts?

Oh, wait, that's Russia.

But as long as the US war machine can keep rolling down the tracks, right BB?

Oh, 100%...that's why the USA invaded Crim...oh, wait.  I mean that's why the USA invaded the Donba...oh, wait.

Never mind. 

B/B

[Manny]

Russia has several times tried to assassinate Ze, and failed. 

Untrue. They even published recently drone footage of him somewhere. If they wanted him dead, he's be dead.

If they took Kiev and captured the government, they could, one imagines, end the war quickly.  But alas, they have failed.

They could. But that doesn't seem to be the objective.

Hmm...I wonder if they are recruiting female convicts?

Oh, wait, that's Russia.

Makes good sense to use convicts if you ask me.

Oh, 100%...that's why the USA invaded Crim...oh, wait.  I mean that's why the USA invaded the Donba...oh, wait.

Never mind. 

The US funded the coup in 2014 as you know. They instigated ALL of this, and also prevented a peace deal.

[Bodine]

The fixation about an alleged failure of capturing Kiev on the onset is entertaining. With 150,000 troops in a city proper with a population in excess of 3 million?

The US fwiw knows full well the fallacy of that military strategy invading Iraq and trying to capture Baghdad with a coalition of 160,000 troops.

It took Nazi Germany over a million troops to invade and take over the western half of Poland. And it bombed the crap out of the country before marching in.

[AvHdB]

The fixation about an alleged failure of capturing Kiev on the onset is entertaining. With 150,000 troops in a city proper with a population in excess of 3 million?

The US fwiw knows full well the fallacy of that military strategy invading Iraq and trying to capture Baghdad with a coalition of 160,000 troops.

It took Nazi Germany over a million troops to invade and take over the western half of Poland. And it bombed the crap out of the country before marching in.

The highest number of troops that Ukraine had were 30,000 (I have read estimates that were far lower) plus approximately 15,000 to 25,000 weapons were distrusted in the region to civilians. Russia had anywhere from 25,000 to 45,000 troops in the region.

What is interesting both sides lost relatively speaking few forces, the Ukraine civilians were not so fortunate.

[Faux Pas]

Yea that long and bloody list BB talks about, isn't quite so long when compared with uncle Sam's away games.....

It's pretty bloody obvious why those countries who aren't already kept at heel by the US, are prepared to fight hard to keep their independence. Europes become the yankees lackey and we'll always be getting pulled into the mess unless we manage to break free. BRICS members see this exactly for what it is.

Until then, we'll be reminded that without the US, Russia will be invading us and Putler will eat our newborn.......whilst being forced to buy expensive energy and submit to US hegemony 

Roscoe I find myself agreeing with much of what you state albeit from a different position/viewpoint. You state over and over "the US hegemony , this and that". Yes the US is heavily involved as is England, The City of London, The UN, NATO and all of the western nations including all of Europe. Pulling the puppet strings of those entities are the Central Banks who currently are exhausting Ukraine of everything. As they do with any country with a wealth of natural resources

Ukraine is history. Completely depleted of all resources. Most of all people who at an earlier point in the war had a chance to keep it a sovereign country but was sold out to the West by the comedian. IMHO those same entities end game is to do the same thing to Russia and the only thing standing in their way is Putin.

I mention all of that to say this, the US isn't the only culprit here but to listen to you, one would think so

[B.B.]

Russia has several times tried to assassinate Ze, and failed. 

Untrue. They even published recently drone footage of him somewhere. If they wanted him dead, he's be dead.

To the contrary, Ze has survived multiple assassination attempts by Putin.

If they took Kiev and captured the government, they could, one imagines, end the war quickly.  But alas, they have failed.

They could. But that doesn't seem to be the objective.

So winning the war by cutting off Ukraine's Command & Control isn't the objective?  *cough-cough*

Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Hmm...I wonder if they are recruiting female convicts?

Oh, wait, that's Russia.

Makes good sense to use convicts if you ask me.

So it's one thing if Ukraine does it but another if Russia does it?

Sorry, I just prefer my cocktails and my entendres doubled....

Oh, 100%...that's why the USA invaded Crim...oh, wait.  I mean that's why the USA invaded the Donba...oh, wait.

Never mind. 

The US funded the coup in 2014 as you know. They instigated ALL of this, and also prevented a peace deal.

Yes, yes, the familiar "bUT mUH AmErIcA!!" whinge. 

Putin interfered with the Ukrainian election to install his puppet Jankovich.  But that's ok for you because it favors Moscow.  Sorry Manny, but you cannot have it both ways.

Meanwhile, what prevented the Ukrainians from accepting the "peace deal"?  Other than common sense, and knowing that if they forever excluded themselves from NATO, they would be vulnerable from continued Russian invastions.

B/B

[rosco]

To the contrary, Ze has survived multiple assassination attempts by Putin.

We can all safely take anything that Zelensky or The Sun has to say, as complete made up nonsense. They're a match made in heaven.....

It's my opinion, that if Russia had wanted him dead, Z would be 6 foot under already. He does a fair bit of travel, makes many public appearances in Ukraine and seems to be less scared for his life these days. Everything in the early days was done in front of the green screen - not so now. Plus Russian intelligence is pretty good, especially in Ukraine where many of the citizens are happy to work for the Russian's.

I feel it's another Navalny story, Putin wants him dead........even though he could if he had wanted.

Meanwhile, what prevented the Ukrainians from accepting the "peace deal"?  Other than common sense, and knowing that if they forever excluded themselves from NATO, they would be vulnerable from continued Russian invastions.

Unfortunately for the Ukrainian people, they never got the chance to say what they wanted. Pro Western Zelensky, the puppet, made that decision for them after he had been told what to do.

Simples......

[rosco]

I mention all of that to say this, the US isn't the only culprit here but to listen to you, one would think so

I agree that the US are not working on this alone but they are by far, the most powerful and vocal faction, who really wants war with Russia. We have them here too but without US support, they know they couldn't do anything. Plus Russia is the US bogey man and they get the blame for literally everything, rent free in your heads 24/7.

I watched a clip from a US news show earlier this week and some bloke was blaming Russia for the disinformation about high US inflation 

[Manny]

To the contrary, Ze has survived multiple assassination attempts by Putin.

"Zelensky says" 

If they took Kiev and captured the government, they could, one imagines, end the war quickly.  But alas, they have failed.

They could. But that doesn't seem to be the objective.

So winning the war by cutting off Ukraine's Command & Control isn't the objective?  *cough-cough*

I'd suggest not, it seems to be a war of attrition.

The US funded the coup in 2014 as you know. They instigated ALL of this, and also prevented a peace deal.

Yes, yes, the familiar "bUT mUH AmErIcA!!" whinge. 

Facts are facts.

Putin interfered with the Ukrainian election to install his puppet Jankovich. 

That's US propaganda.

Meanwhile, what prevented the Ukrainians from accepting the "peace deal"?  Other than common sense, and knowing that if they forever excluded themselves from NATO, they would be vulnerable from continued Russian invasions.

They will never be in NATO, they know that. The peace deal was torpedoed by Boris Johnson, US citizen, at the behest of Uncle Sam as we all know. Putin explained all of this and the timeline in his Carlson interview.

[Manny]

I mention all of that to say this, the US isn't the only culprit here but to listen to you, one would think so

They are the hand that rocks the cradle.

[Faux Pas]

I mention all of that to say this, the US isn't the only culprit here but to listen to you, one would think so

I agree that the US are not working on this alone but they are by far, the most powerful and vocal faction, who really wants war with Russia. We have them here too but without US support, they know they couldn't do anything. Plus Russia is the US bogey man and they get the blame for literally everything, rent free in your heads 24/7.

I watched a clip from a US news show earlier this week and some bloke was blaming Russia for the disinformation about high US inflation 

I mention all of that to say this, the US isn't the only culprit here but to listen to you, one would think so

They are the hand that rocks the cradle.

I don't disagree with either of you. I don't know if you both keep referring to the US as the instigator and the culprit because you're lazy and it's convenient or you actually believe it. Yes the US is the strongest and biggest player in the game but, it's just a part of the bigger corruption apparently ya'll don't see. IMO neither of you recognize the root of the problem. You both seem expertly adapt at recognizing the symptoms but not the cause.

The elites, the deep state, the illuminati  no matter what you wish to call them, have no limits on boundries of countries. They have built and perceive the world as theirs. They control nearly every aspect of our lives if not them all. It's a club and we ain't in it. They rule every government that matters and rule the world through the central banks. It is all for power and profit and there are few players in the "real game". Destruction, death and suffering is of zero consequence to them. Ukraine is a perfect example.

Rosco the media the world over is nothing but propaganda shaped and built for deception. It's the same in the US as it is in Britian, France and every other corner of the world. It is a lie, unfortunately most of the people in the world are to ignorant and deceived to recognize it.

[Texan77]

I mention all of that to say this, the US isn't the only culprit here but to listen to you, one would think so

I agree that the US are not working on this alone but they are by far, the most powerful and vocal faction, who really wants war with Russia. We have them here too but without US support, they know they couldn't do anything. Plus Russia is the US bogey man and they get the blame for literally everything, rent free in your heads 24/7.

I watched a clip from a US news show earlier this week and some bloke was blaming Russia for the disinformation about high US inflation 

But inflation in China so bad China is like going to have to devaluate.

China's Economic Gambit Could Nuke Putin's Dollar Ploy.

[Edited by: B/B.  Reason: Fix link.]

[B.B.]

To the contrary, Ze has survived multiple assassination attempts by Putin.

We can all safely take anything that Zelensky or The Sun has to say, as complete made up nonsense. They're a match made in heaven.....

This is mere contradiction. 

It's my opinion....

Yes your totally unbiased opinion.

 

Meanwhile, what prevented the Ukrainians from accepting the "peace deal"?  Other than common sense, and knowing that if they forever excluded themselves from NATO, they would be vulnerable from continued Russian invastions.

Unfortunately for the Ukrainian people, they never got the chance to say what they wanted. Pro Western Zelensky, the puppet, made that decision for them after he had been told what to do.

Simples......

I have spent a lot of time in Ukr, including 2-3x since the war started.  Believe me, the Ukrainians I know - and met, and actually conversed with - are, to a man (or woman, as the case may be) anti-Putin.
 

To the contrary, Ze has survived multiple assassination attempts by Putin.

"Zelensky says" 

As opposed to a "I watched some vidoes on X..."? 

If they took Kiev and captured the government, they could, one imagines, end the war quickly.  But alas, they have failed.

They could. But that doesn't seem to be the objective.

So winning the war by cutting off Ukraine's Command & Control isn't the objective?  *cough-cough*

I'd suggest not, it seems to be a war of attrition.

Yes, perhaps because of lack of ability to cut off Ukraine's Command & Control and end the war.

The US funded the coup in 2014 as you know. They instigated ALL of this, and also prevented a peace deal.

Yes, yes, the familiar "bUT mUH AmErIcA!!" whinge. 

Facts are facts.

Oooh, hold that thought!

Putin interfered with the Ukrainian election to install his puppet Jankovich. 

That's US propaganda.

Ahem. As a wise friend of mine recently said: "Facts are facts." 

Meanwhile, what prevented the Ukrainians from accepting the "peace deal"?  Other than common sense, and knowing that if they forever excluded themselves from NATO, they would be vulnerable from continued Russian invasions.

They will never be in NATO, they know that. The peace deal was torpedoed by Boris Johnson, US citizen, at the behest of Uncle Sam as we all know. Putin explained all of this and the timeline in his Carlson interview.

We shall see.  N.B. Boris gave up his US Citizenship when he became PM, IIRC.  And yes, "Putin blames others for his invasion of Ukraine."

Well, I guess that settles it. 

I do so look forward to the day when you regain your senses, Manny.  Until then, in the spirit of good fellowship, I will say that I appreciate your commitment to the free exchange of ideas and opinions.  I am not sure you get enough credit for that, particularly these days.

Best,

B/B

[B.B.]

I don't know if you both keep referring to the US as the instigator and the culprit because you're lazy and it's convenient or you actually believe it.


Yes the US is the strongest and biggest player in the game but, it's just a part of the bigger corruption apparently ya'll don't see. IMO neither of you recognize the root of the problem. You both seem expertly adapt at recognizing the symptoms but not the cause.

I don't think either rosco or Manny are lazy, but they can't really argue that Ukraine "forced" Russia to invade it.  Doesn't pass the credulity test.  So what then?  They can't put the blame where it actually lies: on Russia, so what to do? 

Try to take the focus off or Russia by blaming America.

That's why their arguments reduce to "Subject, verb, 'bUt mUh AmeRiKa!!!'" 

It's what they have.

Ukraine is a perfect example.

You are ignoring Russia's history of genocide in Ukraine.  Ukraine is a perfect example of a people saying "Yes, we have been invaded and genocided by Russia before.  Not this time, thanks."

Instead, we get the Putinistas moaning "Poor little Russia!  Always the VICTIM!!!" whilst crying crocodile tears.

B/B

[rosco]

Just for you B/B......

John Mearshimer TikTok

If you struggle to accept it from myself or Manny, then here's one of your own, summing it up perfectly.

[Edited by: B/B.  Reason: Fix link.]

[Wiz]

B.B

Are by the way have become Unemployed or Manny has asked you to help...
Looking the right side of the board, the exembisio of good assets is becoming better every day and very inviting for unmarried pensioners.

You know very well who instigated the Orange revolution as I have previously posted a video by Victoria Nulland and her admission that USA has financed the revolution.
After the latest activities in Palestine it becomes pretty clear who is running USA and the rest of the world... financially etc.

May I remind you that after the war ended in 1948 Germany signed the capitulation peace agreement that GERMANY has been run by  USA till 2099 and it is not an independen Nation.

May I remind you who has signed the Misk agreement and today has been ignore it.......

Taking into consideration the latest info coming out USA and Israel.... I can only guess that the USA government is now run completely by the jews.......

May I also remind you

If America has so much power WHY THEY DO NOT STOP THE KILLIGS IN PALESTINE??

My view is that the Jews are running America.... and have been doing ing it since the end of WWII

HAVE A NICE DAY......

[Faux Pas]

I don't think either rosco or Manny are lazy, but they can't really argue that Ukraine "forced" Russia to invade it.  Doesn't pass the credulity test.  So what then?  They can't put the blame where it actually lies: on Russia, so what to do? 

Try to take the focus off or Russia by blaming America.

That's why their arguments reduce to "Subject, verb, 'bUt mUh AmeRiKa!!!'" 

It's what they have.

Ukraine is a perfect example.

You are ignoring Russia's history of genocide in Ukraine.  Ukraine is a perfect example of a people saying "Yes, we have been invaded and genocided by Russia before.  Not this time, thanks."

Instead, we get the Putinistas moaning "Poor little Russia!  Always the VICTIM!!!" whilst crying crocodile tears.

B/B

I know they aren't which is my point. They refer to the culprit in the conflict as the US and they ain't wrong but they don't seem to see the whole picture. I am merely reminding them the blame can easily be doled out in equal measures to other countries as well. There's a bigger picture that neither you nor they acknowledge.

Your position appears to be "Putin evil, Russia bad" and that being the cause of the Russian invasion. It's not from IMHO. You cite the distant history or the region and totally ignore the more recent. It could easily be argued that it goes back to the Budapest memorandum or the Orange revolution.

The result of the Budapest memorandum was "Not One Inch" of Western aggression toward Russia, was it not? Obama, Soros and Nuland were sowing the seeds of discontent as early as 2008. One could easily argue it started in the Dubya admin and they wouldn't be wrong, either. The the cash, the weapons, the bio labs and the influence is a real thing. They knew it would provoke Putin when they started it. Russia IMO was the target from the beginning. Ukraine is mere cannon fodder to achieve their goals


I have no fondness for Putin and I am certainly no Putin apologist but anyone thinking the conflict started when Russia invaded has had their head up their a$$ for the last 18-20 years

[Wiz]

I have no fondness for Putin and I am certainly no Putin apologist but anyone thinking the conflict started when Russia invaded has had their head up their a$$ for the last 18-20 years

Me too....unfortunately some people they cannot see further
from their mose !!!

BTW I happen to be in Kiev and then went to Lvov, when the Orange revolution Started

[B.B.]

If you struggle to accept it from myself or Manny, then here's one of your own, summing it up perfectly.

Mearshimer is a long-time Putin apologist.  He won't say where his $ comes from because he's likely on the take, but at least won't lie.

He is tuck in the "OldThink" in the same manner (on a different topic) as Graham Allison.

More importantly, Mearshimer has been wrong about a lot.

First, he ignores that E. Europeans wanted into NATO for protection against a historical foe who had invaded and genocided them in the past.  It's not  jsut "but muh AMERICA!"  Mearshimer, like you and Manny, cannot view things this way because that would force you to focus on Russia and Russia's history in the region, that Russia might be in the wrong.  But you CANNOT so you don't.

This nonsense about "But AmErIcA wants to strangle Russia" is garbage also.  We see it now with Finland and Sweden.  Do you think they are joining NATO because they want to wage war on Russia?  Or because Russia's actions have scared them into it?

Second, he (wrongly) predicted that Putin's territorial ambitions would end at Crimea.  Now Putin has annexed the Donbas.  Lavrov talks about regime change.  Putin waxes philosophical about Pyotr Veliki's war with Sweden as "returning lands to Russia."

I think Putin would LOVE to take virtually all of Ukraine, but he (nor you, nor Mearshimer) can admit this because then (a) it's not about NATO anymore even for you, (b) you would no longer be able to rationalize Russia's defeat in the Battle of Ukraine.

Mearshimer at least puts a veneer on his arguments; ‘Yes, Russia is wrong to invade Ukraine, but …" and what follows is an avalanche of excuse-making and false moral equivalence: "NATO provoked Russia, Ukraine provoked Russia, blah, blah."

The cause is the same as always: Russian nationalism.

Russians have had to watch E. European standards of living rise after they joined the EU.  If that happened in Ukraine, that would be a bridge to far for the regime. 

But hey, keep on rationalizing, and blaming everyone but Russia.

B/B

[B.B.]

Your position appears to be "Putin evil, Russia bad"

Oh, I don't hate Russia.  I rather enjoyed my time there.

and that being the cause of the Russian invasion. It's not from IMHO.

Being wrong isn't a crime, you are free to go.

You cite the distant history or the region and totally ignore the more recent.

Ukrainians do not regard the "distant" history as being so distant; certainly it has not passed from living memory.  Would you say the same thing to a Jewish person about the Holocaust?

It could easily be argued that it goes back to the Budapest memorandum or the Orange revolution.

It goes back to Russian Nationalism.  Crimea was *always* on the agenda.

And there is no "grand plan" to strangle Russia: Ukrainians want what other Europeans wanted - protection from their historical oppressor.  Indeed, Russia has demonstrated itself to be such a threat that Finland and Sweden have been driven to join NATO also.  Putin stepped on his own cock there.

You (in part) much like rosco and Manny have to ignore this because if you faced it head on, you would have to draw some conclusions about Russia.

The result of the Budapest memorandum was "Not One Inch" of Western aggression toward Russia, was it not? 

NATO is a defensive alliance. 

Another part of the Budapest Memorandum involved respecting the territorial integrity of Ukraine - how exactly are Russia's annexations of Crimea and the Donbas in any way congruent with that?

Exactly, it's not - and that's what gives the LIE to the "BuT mUH Russia is OnLy DeFeNDiNG iTseLF fROm BiG, MeaN, naTo!!!" bullshit.

Had Russia been a better neighbor in E. Europe, they'd have more friends than just Lukashenko.

B/B

[Wiz]

If you struggle to accept it from myself or Manny, then here's one of your own, summing it up perfectly.

Mearshimer is a long-time Putin apologist.  He won't say where his $ comes from because he's likely on the take, but at least won't lie.

He is tuck in the "OldThink" in the same manner (on a different topic) as Graham Allison.

More importantly, Mearshimer has been wrong about a lot.

First, he ignores that E. Europeans wanted into NATO for protection against a historical foe who had invaded and genocided them in the past.  It's not  jsut "but muh AMERICA!"  Mearshimer, like you and Manny, cannot view things this way because that would force you to focus on Russia and Russia's history in the region, that Russia might be in the wrong.  But you CANNOT so you don't.

This nonsense about "But AmErIcA wants to strangle Russia" is garbage also.  We see it now with Finland and Sweden.  Do you think they are joining NATO because they want to wage war on Russia?  Or because Russia's actions have scared them into it?

Second, he (wrongly) predicted that Putin's territorial ambitions would end at Crimea.  Now Putin has annexed the Donbas.  Lavrov talks about regime change.  Putin waxes philosophical about Pyotr Veliki's war with Sweden as "returning lands to Russia."

I think Putin would LOVE to take virtually all of Ukraine, but he (nor you, nor Mearshimer) can admit this because then (a) it's not about NATO anymore even for you, (b) you would no longer be able to rationalize Russia's defeat in the Battle of Ukraine.

Mearshimer at least puts a veneer on his arguments; ‘Yes, Russia is wrong to invade Ukraine, but …" and what follows is an avalanche of excuse-making and false moral equivalence: "NATO provoked Russia, Ukraine provoked Russia, blah, blah."

The cause is the same as always: Russian nationalism.

Russians have had to watch E. European standards of living rise after they joined the EU.  If that happened in Ukraine, that would be a bridge to far for the regime. 

But hey, keep on rationalizing, and blaming everyone but Russia.

B/B

WHAT A LOT OF RUBBISH   

Obviously you are not very good in your bullshit.......

May I remind who was first invated Berlin?

a) Who signed the capitulation with Germany and
b) what was the REAL REASON for the creation of NATO?

c) Which army first invated Berlin and had to wait FOR the American and British army to arrive?

d) What was/is the REAL reason for the permanent creation of 40 USA army basses in Germany, and BERLIN AFTER  GERMANY, SIGNED THE CAPITULATION TILL 2099.

WHAT IS THE REAL REASON FOR  USA THAT HAS CREATED SO MANY BASES IN EVERY COUNTRY WHO HAS JOINED NATO included my birth country?

May I suggest to you to learn more about Geopolitics......
why us has 800+ army aes around the globe?

Have a nice EASTER today according to the Cristian calender.........

[Manny]

NATO is a defensive alliance. 

Who were they defending when they bombed Yugoslavia?