Fake News About Russia in Ukraine

[Manny]

I thought I'd start a topic on fake news since there's so much of it about.

Let's start with the allegation Russia bombed a hospital full of kids in Mariupol. Those here who get their news from places like Yahoo have been howling it from the rooftops.

Here is the CNN claim:

Ukrainian's president on Wednesday accused Russia of carrying out genocide after officials said Russian aircraft had bombed the hospital, burying patients in rubble despite a ceasefire deal for people to flee the besieged city.

Zelensky himself claimed there were "children under the wreckage" on March 9th.

Nobody seemed concerned there were no photos of multiple ambulances ferrying the dead away, or that the building looked abandoned. 

When we drill into it a bit we find this statement from Russia:

That's how #Fakenews is born. We warned in our statement back on 7 March (https://russiaun.ru/en/news/070322n) that this hospital has been turned into a military object by radicals. Very disturbing that UN spreads this information without verification

Follow his link and we find this from March 7th, two days before:

By our records, 200 thousand civilians are trapped in Mariupol alone and held at gunpoint by the Azov battalion. The humanitarian situation in cities deteriorates rapidly. As for humanitarians who are ready to help, they cannot get in there and prevent the unfolding disaster. People in other regions of Ukraine that have been blocked by nationalist battalions find themselves in the same desperate situation.

Ukrainian radicals show their true face more distinctly by the day. Locals reports that Ukraine's Armed Forces kicked out personnel of natal hospital #1 of the city of Mariupol and set up a firing site within the facility. Besides, they fully destroyed one of the city's kindergartens.

The facts that surface later do not dispel the clickbait and fake news posted across the world before.

So the hospital full of kids was in fact nothing of the sort.

[Markje]

https://metrovoicenews.com/russian-tank-runs-over-car-in-shocking-video/

Widely reported, I just grabbed one. Russian tank runs over car in Kiev. Full of video footage etc.

The viral twitter thread also quickly had comments from army-nerds that this was not a Russian tank, but in fact a Ukrainian AA vehicle Strela-10.

Then the story changed: It was stolen by the evil Russians for a false-flag operation.

However, seen from another angle, no Ukrainian soldier ever fires on it. If it was stolen would that not be logical?

Truth: It was a Ukrainian Strela-10 driven by a Ukrainian crew, that caused an accident in the fog-of-war.

Full debunk + explanations here : https://observers.france24.com/en/europe/20220301-video-debunked-russian-tank-crush-civilian-car-Kiev

[NS1]

So your facts come from a Russian official n Russian
thats rich. Manny you wish to use twitter, go looking lots of live accounts from locals.
You don't wnna believe camera men from multiple news sites far enough I guess.
But quoting Russia's propaganda machine is to funny.

Proof of cluster bombs being used as well video, also a few that have not exploded.
But we all know, evidence will be Collected and years will pass, but in the end truth comes out.

Reality of all of this so simple, if Russia was not in Ukraine, none of this would be a conversation.
Also you refuse to look at anything that does not come from Putin.

[rosco]

The above is classic. Remember that poor Ukrainian lady who got injured during the first day of the invasion? It turns out she also got injured in a gas explosion back in 2018 wearing the exact same clothes and bandages.....

The MSM, fooling people since nineteen canteen.

[Manny]

So your facts come from a Russian official n Russian
thats rich. Manny you wish to use twitter, go looking lots of live accounts from locals.
You don't wnna believe camera men from multiple news sites far enough I guess.
But quoting Russia's propaganda machine is to funny.

Again critical thinking. The UN document pre-dated the incident.

[andrewfi]

A general point to look out for.

Many claims of Ukrainian and elsewhere's propaganda army is to claim destruction of Russian materiel, often tanks, other armoured vehicles and rocket launchers.

When one takes a close(ish) look one starts to notice a couple of odd things.
1) There's usually no sign of the logo 'V' and I think there's a new one that I can't recall. That's painted in white, bigly, on the side of all vehicles. If it ain't there it ain't real.
2) There are often no Russian insignias on the vehicles, or if present they are oddly more blurred than the rest of the image.
3) The camouflage is wrong. Ukrainians use a pixelated form of cammo. The Russians use a more conventional type. Often the pics one sees show pixelated cammo for vehicles and materiel that are supposedly Russian.

Of course, some Russian equipment has been destroyed - these guys are not superheroes penned by Marvel and Vibranium isn't a thing in the real world!

[AJ]

V and Z
Proclamations of strenght, unity

As far as overstated equipment destroyed, and troops killed , absolutely.

As an underdog ,the best weapon is being used. That  used for public opinion,world opinion  and  citizens and troop morale
This should surprise noone.


It doesn't surprise me Russia would do the same.i think  that with the cross section of Ukrainian and Russian families ,there is a particular public perception  problem to address in a conflict.

While several.here feel.Putins justifications legit.across their.entirety,

It would be refreshing if some would acknowledge that catch phrases like neo nazism, the immenint nato  threat to Russia etc etc are also being exaggerated and exploited to mold russian public views , of russian governments  wanted objective .
It is within the realm.of possibilities.

Just as the nuclear.power plant scares are bring exaggerated and exploited to strike fears in western.peoples.


Only one side  being forthright and honest on every point seems incredibly interesting perspective.

I've watched vids of russian citizen.perspectives on.the conflict.
Those could be staged of course.
But most support it and seem.to parrot key points laid out by Russian media.
That's expected.
Some of those could be accurate as well,I'm.open to that.


The one theme amongst many that caught me are some citizens thoughts that they support this action as it simply pragmatically  needed to be done before Russia was attacked.
The * *what? Should we wait until.we are attacked? No we needed to be proactive * outlook.

It takes a fairly big leap to jump to.russia being directly physically attacked as the thoughts and concerns those Russian  civilians are expressing.
That seemingly takes a fairly big push in media there to get that as a common concern.

I don't think.thier minds were going to. future  possibilities in donbas or crimea, their concerns were more Russia proper ,their  cities, thier homes etc

At what point has Russia media instilled the danger of physical.war/aggression by Ukraine  or elements of the west in Ukraine , to actually attack Russia,
that a common citizen would feel it such a concern to justifuly and attack a country preemptively? A country that shares many citizens.

Certainly Zelensky is doing similar in pleading to europe that they.are *next*

But his countries border.was crossed,  twice now.
european nations ,nato et al were extremely unlikely to cross Russia's


That takes serious spin within Russia News to.make that some forgone reality.

But presenting. * our influence.in a region will.dimish *.
Doesn't.have the same impact.

Fear.is a powerful tool used on all sides

[Manny]

Observe the “dead body” in the background on this “news” report.

https://twitter.com/brexitbassist/status/1501994010126266368?s=21

[AJ]

Observe the “dead body” in the background on this “news” report.

https://twitter.com/brexitbassist/status/1501994010126266368?s=21

So,what source was reporting.an old staged climate change protest as current event casualties?

[NS1]

The fake news is a bit of a stretch and maybe on both sides.
For recent example, Maternity Hospital. It was not directly targeted.
As many of the sites that are bieng hit

But enough evidence is coming out that Russia is using bombs that are
wide spread destruction, in other words not used for precise targets.
So plan flies over, drops bombs in civilian areas and what gets hit, gets hit.

So fake news is russia saying the are only targeting military sites or operations.
Thats not false, but its not completely true. They are  hitting cities with big nasty bombs
that take out what they hit and large surrounding areas.

Exapmle bing the crater bedies hospital, not direct hit, but debris and balst damage
destroyed the hospital hurting many innocent people.

If Manny likes to fly fake news with every story of  everything that heppens to protect Russian military
from doing this, then if he was the top of commander in unit, would be telling his people to do this.
Sad statement in of itself.

[Manny]

Observe the "dead body" in the background on this "news" report.

https://twitter.com/brexitbassist/status/1501994010126266368?s=21

So,what source was reporting.an old staged climate change protest as current event casualties?

I know it was repurposed, I read the comments too. Hacks now trawl Twitter for "news" and present it as truth. That's what fake news is.

On the other hand, the pregnant woman, the only one that managed to find herself in the abandoned hospital in Mariupol, not for medical treatment, she was blogging, apparently had a professional photographer on hand to photograph her "injuries". When the Russian Embassy in London clarified and named her and the photographer, Twitter deleted it. But here it is.

[Manny]

The fake news is a bit of a stretch and maybe on both sides.
For recent example, Maternity Hospital. It was not directly targeted.
As many of the sites that are bieng hit

But enough evidence is coming out that Russia is using bombs that are
wide spread destruction, in other words not used for precise targets.
So plan flies over, drops bombs in civilian areas and what gets hit, gets hit.

So fake news is russia saying the are only targeting military sites or operations.
Thats not false, but its not completely true. They are  hitting cities with big nasty bombs
that take out what they hit and large surrounding areas.

Exapmle bing the crater bedies hospital, not direct hit, but debris and balst damage
destroyed the hospital hurting many innocent people.

If Manny likes to fly fake news with every story of  everything that heppens to protect Russian military
from doing this, then if he was the top of commander in unit, would be telling his people to do this.
Sad statement in of itself.

I can see the penny is slowly starting to drop.

By the way, these “many” injured people at the former hospital I read was 3. One the blogger above who shouldn’t have been there.

[AJ]

Observe the "dead body" in the background on this "news" report.

https://twitter.com/brexitbassist/status/1501994010126266368?s=21

So,what source was reporting.an old staged climate change protest as current event casualties?

I know it was repurposed, I read the comments too. Hacks now trawl Twitter for "news" and present it as truth. That's what fake news is.

On the other hand, the pregnant woman, the only one that managed to find herself in the abandoned hospital in Mariupol, not for medical treatment, she was blogging, apparently had a professional photographer on hand to photograph her "injuries". When the Russian Embassy in London clarified and named her and the photographer, Twitter deleted it. But here it is.

(Attachment Link)

I get that , I wasn't  asking  the question to point out the repurposed aspect ,

I was  interested what major   news source had picked up and ran with it,if you  happened to know is all  🤷‍♂️

I dont pay attention at all to twitter.

I don't doubt the staged aspect.
Never did.
You'll notice despite strongly pro Ukraine I've called out the media hype regarding several issues including the nuclear power plant stuff.

In any good sales pitch ,which includes governments of the west, and Russia

A call to action is often a go to.
The more emotional the easier the sale.
Human tragedy, nazi, bio lab, children ,nuclear, meltdown
All great attention grabbing words.

[NS1]

The fake news is a bit of a stretch and maybe on both sides.
For recent example, Maternity Hospital. It was not directly targeted.
As many of the sites that are bieng hit

But enough evidence is coming out that Russia is using bombs that are
wide spread destruction, in other words not used for precise targets.
So plan flies over, drops bombs in civilian areas and what gets hit, gets hit.

So fake news is russia saying the are only targeting military sites or operations.
Thats not false, but its not completely true. They are  hitting cities with big nasty bombs
that take out what they hit and large surrounding areas.

Exapmle bing the crater bedies hospital, not direct hit, but debris and balst damage
destroyed the hospital hurting many innocent people.

If Manny likes to fly fake news with every story of  everything that heppens to protect Russian military
from doing this, then if he was the top of commander in unit, would be telling his people to do this.
Sad statement in of itself.

I can see the penny is slowly starting to drop.

By the way, these “many” injured people at the former hospital I read was 3. One the blogger above who shouldn’t have been there.

Three were killed, one was a child, no number was released on injured, that I seen.

[AJ]

17 injured was in western media.
3 killed.

[Manny]

17 injured was in western media.
3 killed.

As Azov had taken over the former hospital, one would assume most were they.

On the other item above, it wasn’t clear which channel had used that video.

[andrew99]

If the Russians didnt invade then none of this would be happening.

It isnt fake that both Ukraine or Russia are actually much worse off due to this conflict. 

[Markje]

If the Russians didnt invade then none of this would be happening.

It isnt fake that both Ukraine or Russia are actually much worse off due to this conflict.

True, and in the meantime you can ask yourself why Russia felt it necessary to invade. Was Putin wrong when he stated why? If you listen to his speeches in 2007 (munich), 2014 being the most notable, you can see there was ample warning that this would happen if Europe/America did not take Russias grievances seriously.

They chose not to and mostly ignore his points. And now the result is very much there.

I still believe he was wrong and this could have been solved in other manners, but i am not prez of Russia.

[andrewfi]

Mark, my perspective is different.

I absolutely wish this had not happened.

I do not think Putin, speaking on behalf of Russia, was wrong. There were choices, all along the way. Going back almost 30 years.

The endpoint, subject to no acceptance of Russia's needs, which IMHO are valid, relevant and not outrageous was pretty much a given.

However, until a few days ago, I was of the opinion that even at the point where the operation commenced, that it was reversible, not inevitable. Now, I am far less sure.

I am sure that we will find out more in the coming days, but I think that the Russians may have had intelligence that gave them a warning that something was about to happen. We know that the OSCE had been monitoring an increase in shelling from the Ukrainian side. The OSCE was careful to try to avoid blaming either side, but they could not hide the evidence - they were monitoring impacts. There was also a huge increase in the volume of shipments into Ukraine from NATO. The Russians would certainly have been aware of that and whilst not probative of Ukrainian action, certainly tends to support the idea.

As some may have seen the Russian Defence Ministry has released images of a set of orders issued back in January in preparation for an offensive by the Ukrainian side on the LDNR. They claim to have discovered the documents during cleanup following the overrunning of a Ukrainian military installation.

If genuine, and I think they may be, I am also pretty sure that they came into the possession of the Russians shortly after their issuance, not after the start of the Russian offensive. I think that this would have been to give a degree of plausible deniability and cover for the person who would have risked the lives of themselves and their family in providing the documents to the Russians.

When I consider the documents through the lens of the rules I wrote about elsewhere today, I think the documents probably stand up.

In the court of public opinion in the west, there is absolutely no win for the Russians in producing these documents if they are not genuine. Indeed, there's pretty much no benefit if they are real. Thus there is no incentive to produce faked up documents. That's especially true given that the signatories of the orders are all real people. I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that the Russians have at least one of the signatories in custody at this moment.

If genuine, the Russians had only two choices. Do nothing and wait for a well-planned operation with covert support from NATO members in terms of leadership and material, along with the consequent loss of life among the people of the LDNR. Or to steal a march on the Ukrainians and stop the mess in its tracks.

I am no expert on military orders but the images I have seen are in no way comparable to the ginned-up images used to support the Ukrainian 'cause' over the last few days.

[NS1]

If you look at what has happened since 2014 attack in Ukraines east.
Not hard to figure it out. Canada was first to go in and start training Ukrainian soldiers.
At this point all equipment supplied was none lethal.

Approximately a year ago, after 3 major Russian build up of troops and equipment
by Russia along Ukraine borders on training excercises each more obvious trianing what we see today.
with Putin speaking more and more over last 2-3 years
of his goals to return Russian to the Glory years and expanding its territory and influence.

The US got heavily involved in Ukraine military training with help from Natos members.
6 months ago the US starting shipping large amounts of defence weapons to Ukraine
This is not as big of secret as Andrew eludes too, I read about it here in Canada a few months ago.

I suspect with Russia and the US having incredible intelligence agency's this was not much of a secret,
to either one of them, Russia had ample time to deal with it in many ways, instead they sent more troops
more equipment, esculation works both ways.

At the end of the day Ukrane is a Soviegn nation that  was / is not threatening anyone.

[Stirlitz]

As Azov had taken over the former hospital, one would assume most were they.

Why would and should Azov take over this hospital? They are stationed in Mariupol and have their own barracks. There is no need to take over a hospital, to put it mildly. And why take over a hospital where there are patients? There are plenty of premises in Mariupol Azov could take over if they needed. An active hospital would be a bizarre choice.

Not for the Nazi propaganda though. From 2014 we know they are good at it like the crucified Russian-speaking baby.

I am shocked at the level of bullshit I read online. Common sense? Not heard about it.

[Manny]

As Azov had taken over the former hospital, one would assume most were they.

Why would and should Azov take over this hospital? They are stationed in Mariupol and have their own barracks. There is no need to take over a hospital, to put it mildly. And why take over a hospital where there are patients? There are plenty of premises in Mariupol Azov could take over if they needed. An active hospital would be a bizarre choice.

I thought you were a bright bloke?

In barracks, they are a clear target. Hiding in a hospital after throwing out the patients, they think they won't be seen. But they were.

Your people are hiding among civilian infrastructure, Ukrainian armed forces hardware are routinely deployed inside residential areas, near kindergartens, etc. These pictures are from Mariupol and Kharkov.

[Stirlitz]

Manny, as they say, medicine is helpless in your case.

Bye-bye.

[Manny]

Manny, as they say, medicine is helpless in your case.

Bye-bye.

Inconvenient truths, eh Igor.

[Texan77]

Well, we know what the Russian game plan is now. They are wanting to hold fake elections in Kerson and make it an independent country. The trouble is no one want to vote for independence. It is going to be really hard to convince any buddy other than Manny the vote is real. So, I guess they are planning to divide up Ukraine into many small countries and install a dysfunctional government in each one. I do not see this working this time.