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Author Topic: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.  (Read 11571 times)

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Online Markje

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #50 on: March 14, 2022, 05:39:25 AM »



Have you ever been to Ukraine ? who is telling you 1 out of 10 people belongs to a nazi or  right group in Ukraine? just curious?

- Ukrainian news
- Western news ( although they suddenly downplay/deny it)
- Russian news
- Aljazeera news.
- Friends living in Kharkov/Kherson.

Here's a good starter :
https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/04/nazis-ukrainian-war-russia/
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Online andrewfi

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #51 on: March 14, 2022, 05:40:15 AM »
Andrew99, I think that you need to read what I wrote. To help you with an analogy (if you do not know what an analogy is, please ask me, or check a website about grammar and syntax).

Here's the analogy: I am not a member of the Conservative party in the UK, however, I support, in general, their goals and policies. In an election, I will generally vote Conservative. I do not need to be a member of the Conservative Party in order to be a supporter.

In the UK there are many more people who have political beliefs that generally align with the Conservative party, they are sympathetic to the party's policies, but might not always vote for them. There are many more people who fall into that group. In the UK only about 200,000 people are members of the Conservative party.

The same general situation applies in Ukraine. There are relatively few, but still, a large number and many of them are armed and trained to use force in a way that is not true for Conservative voters in the UK. Then there are many, many more people, who might be persuaded to vote for them, in the right circumstances, because they cannot see much wrong with what they say. These people's sympathies are broadly in line with what they see on TV or read in newspapers - particularly when the leadership are being 'voter friendly'. So, the far-right nationalist parties tend to not get huge numbers of seats in government, but they get a fair few and seem to be overly represented within the power structures of the country. You can learn about that for yourself.

Of course, those parties, as far back as 2014 did their very best to downplay their previous overt affiliation to National Socialism. The United States, through various NGOs ran training programs to help these groups to rebrand themselves in a way that was more acceptable to the general population.

The leadership did their best to stop giving Nazi salutes (but they sometimes forget). The military wings are far less careful about abandoning Nazi-style regalia, parades, tattoos, insignia and nomenclature.

So, Andrew99, do a little bit of learning, it isn't hard to do. Then, your ability to understand the world around you and current events will be increased manifold.
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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #52 on: March 14, 2022, 05:52:24 AM »
About those nazi:

Western sources:
https://forward.com/opinion/416751/why-does-no-one-care-that-neo-nazis-are-gaining-power-in-ukraine/
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/neo-nazis-far-right-ukraine/

Ukrainian sources:
https://m.glavcom.ua/country/politics/yarosh-tyagnibok-bileckiy-taki-sformuvali-jediniy-spisok-na-vibori-600508.html
(and even one from the Ukrainian propaganda channel pravda.ua ) https://www.pravda.com.ua/rus/articles/2019/07/21/7221526/

I won't list any Russian sources, you wouldn't believe it if they told you the sun is yellow and the sky blue.

Especially that last link should be very eye-opening to those that firmly believe 'there are no nazi in the rada/government' of UA.

Oh and as icing on the cake: The war in Ukraine support have 'Slava Ukrainii' as its war-cry.
You might wanna look up its origins.

Some relatively innocuous symbols like the indian sun-cross will never be seen separate again from naziism. Slava Ukrainii falls under that idiom. It was the war-cry of the criminal Bandera , his atrocities I hope have not been forgotten so easily.

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Online Gipsy

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #53 on: March 14, 2022, 09:04:24 AM »

I have been to Ukraine in 2020

I think people need to get out in nature and turn off the TV and these nazis will disappear  from people's heads

I’m not sure that your trip to Ukraine in 2020, renders everyone else’s opinion automatically void.

I have been a place where people here seem to believe its run by nazis? Are you serious and do people even know what nazi is? Maybe little green men as well as running around kharkiv?

Having a FiL living in Kharkov, I have been there many times over the last how ever many years..
He tell that the city administration, and the areas government are mostly Ultra's..
On one visit, I saw the Ultra's having a recruitment drive on Freedom square, bang opposite the city administration building...
Does that answer your question??
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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #54 on: March 14, 2022, 09:53:06 AM »

There is, I am coming to think, a structural issue here.

Although open support for the, shall we call them, far-right nationalists in Ukraine (and not just Ukraine) is relatively low, perhaps around 10%, there is a much larger proportion of people who are generally sympathetic to the ideals of these groups.


Then there are many, many more people, who might be persuaded to vote
for them, in the right circumstances, because they cannot see much wrong
with what they say.

Rather than surmising, inferring or theorizing about possibilities that may or may
not have happened, we should instead look at the historical results.

"In the 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election all major Ukrainian right-wing parties
formed a nationwide united party list with the political parties Svoboda, National
Corps, the Governmental Initiative of Yarosh, and the Right Sector. The resulting
coalition only managed to win 2.15% of the popular vote, and since the coalition
failed to pass the 5% threshold it gained no parliamentary seats.1"

So there you have it, a tiny subsection of the population supports the radicals
enough to vote for them. An even smaller percentage of people support these
causes enough to take up arms against a superior nuclear armed super power.

There are not enough Nazi's to bother talking about, unless you were using
them as a phony pretext or excuse to invade another country. There is no
method to root out or destroy these people who are dispersed among
the population in Ukraine. You would have to destroy nearly all Ukrainians
to get rid of this tiny subset.

I would argue that Germany, Poland, the UK and even those sneaky Canadians2
have or exceed the 2.5% Nazi idiots that Ukraine has.


1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far-right_politics_in_Ukraine#cite_note-2748306-cecNC-5
2. I am joking  ;D

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #55 on: March 14, 2022, 10:40:48 AM »

"In the 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election all major Ukrainian right-wing parties
formed a nationwide united party list with the political parties Svoboda, National
Corps, the Governmental Initiative of Yarosh, and the Right Sector. The resulting
coalition only managed to win 2.15% of the popular vote, and since the coalition
failed to pass the 5% threshold it gained no parliamentary seats.1"

So there you have it, a tiny subsection of the population supports the radicals
enough to vote for them. An even smaller percentage of people support these
causes enough to take up arms against a superior nuclear armed super power.

There are not enough Nazi's to bother talking about, unless you were using
them as a phony pretext or excuse to invade another country. There is no
method to root out or destroy these people who are dispersed among
the population in Ukraine. You would have to destroy nearly all Ukrainians
to get rid of this tiny subset.


Bill, well stated.  tiphat

The reality, ugly as it is Russian is grasping at straws to keep it’s narrative alive, it is smoke and mirrors.

Because of Putin’s actions the Russian people will suffer and if V. Putin can maintain control of the nation it will be removed from the International arena. It is sad for those who want no part of this insanity.[

If V. Putin is still in control in a years time that is due to his cunning, otherwise there might be a reset of the relationship. Time will tell the reality./size]
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Online AJ

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #56 on: March 14, 2022, 12:02:22 PM »
Quote from: 2tallbill
I would argue that Germany, Poland, the UK and even those sneaky Canadians2
have or exceed the 2.5% Nazi idiots that Ukraine has.

Or Russia.

The same group pointing out azov battalion ,becomes silent when russian funded Sparta battalion and Wagner PMC are mentioned.
Interestingly all 3 groups springing up in 2014 in the same region the one contested by Russia as being predominantly russian.

The two cultures have been interchangeable for decades,now suddenly folks want to show some clear distinction that fundamentally did not exist in language, family ties, societal norms.

They may now .

The big distinction was basically political ideals to lean towards EU,  or towards Russia.

Planted ideals,or manipulated to a degree of change , is up to each outside observers perspective.

Reality dictates that the bulk.of the population likely dint care strongly either way at that time they were more concerned with daily life like most of us.

But they likely  have a strong opinion on one side or the other now .


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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2022, 12:21:38 AM »
Our oldest has National service in a couple of years ( Though looks like he can skip that now with new law coming in for kids going into IT) but anyway he went for his medical yesterday, they have to do a few each year to make sure they are fit..

Wife went along.... loads of kids 18/19 all wanting or can't wait to get into the Donbass and fight for Russia..
I support no government anywhere, ever, never. No institution, No religion!!

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #58 on: March 15, 2022, 12:53:39 AM »
Our oldest has National service in a couple of years ( Though looks like he can skip that now with new law coming in for kids going into IT) but anyway he went for his medical yesterday, they have to do a few each year to make sure they are fit..

Wife went along.... loads of kids 18/19 all wanting or can't wait to get into the Donbass and fight for Russia..
Hopefully they'll see the loads of bodybags and aren't so eager anymore.
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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #59 on: March 15, 2022, 01:23:51 AM »
Our oldest has National service in a couple of years ( Though looks like he can skip that now with new law coming in for kids going into IT) but anyway he went for his medical yesterday, they have to do a few each year to make sure they are fit..

Wife went along.... loads of kids 18/19 all wanting or can't wait to get into the Donbass and fight for Russia..
Hopefully they'll see the loads of bodybags and aren't so eager anymore.

Oh Jeez Steve, the last thing anyone needs is more 18 year old cannon fodder. These kids will be crying for their mama's the second they realise it's not computer war games but real blood and guts  :-(
My own boy is about to turn 17, and there is no way in Hell he'll be going anywhere near Russian again until I get some certainty about this conscription issue over this year.
Let's hope this madness is over very soon.

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #60 on: March 15, 2022, 01:32:34 AM »
"In the 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election all major Ukrainian right-wing parties
formed a nationwide united party list with the political parties Svoboda, National
Corps, the Governmental Initiative of Yarosh, and the Right Sector. The resulting
coalition only managed to win 2.15% of the popular vote, and since the coalition
failed to pass the 5% threshold it gained no parliamentary seats.1"

This ^^^^^^^^^

Funny how the Putin apologists won't discuss Sparta and Wagner Group but bang on about Azov,
or how discussing "The War/Invasion" can get you 15 years in the wonderful land of the "Russcists".

Online andrewfi

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #61 on: March 15, 2022, 08:15:52 AM »
"In the 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election all major Ukrainian right-wing parties
formed a nationwide united party list with the political parties Svoboda, National
Corps, the Governmental Initiative of Yarosh, and the Right Sector. The resulting
coalition only managed to win 2.15% of the popular vote, and since the coalition
failed to pass the 5% threshold it gained no parliamentary seats.1"

This ^^^^^^^^^

Funny how the Putin apologists won't discuss Sparta and Wagner Group but bang on about Azov,
or how discussing "The War/Invasion" can get you 15 years in the wonderful land of the "Russcists".

Redroo, do yourself a favour and learn what the groups that you mention are, what they do, and why they were formed. A few facts will serve to help you to have an informed opinion.
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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #62 on: March 15, 2022, 08:27:18 AM »
In war we count deaths. But what really happens the very many more that are permanently injured. The cost of Viet Nam in the USA still exists today as some survivors still need medical care for war injuries. For every death there are usually three or more serious injuries.

Steve boy your kids will have a chance to fight in the next war that Russia gets into. That will likely happen a couple of years if Putin stays in power.
3) There has been no "threat" to invade Ukraine. The US invented that and fed it to a complicit media.

Offline chelseaboy

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #63 on: March 15, 2022, 09:05:18 AM »
Our oldest has National service in a couple of years ( Though looks like he can skip that now with new law coming in for kids going into IT) but anyway he went for his medical yesterday, they have to do a few each year to make sure they are fit..

Wife went along.... loads of kids 18/19 all wanting or can't wait to get into the Donbass and fight for Russia..

Yeah i bet they get all excited at the thought of killing women and children.
"I find it hard to believe that Russia would target civilians on purpose " Manny 28/2/22

Online 2tallbill

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #64 on: March 15, 2022, 10:26:19 AM »
Hopefully they'll see the loads of bodybags and aren't so eager anymore.

+1

Nobody wants to send flags home to their mothers in exchange for her sons.
FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #65 on: March 15, 2022, 11:04:42 AM »
Our oldest has National service in a couple of years ( Though looks like he can skip that now with new law coming in for kids going into IT) but anyway he went for his medical yesterday, they have to do a few each year to make sure they are fit..

Wife went along.... loads of kids 18/19 all wanting or can't wait to get into the Donbass and fight for Russia..

Yeah i bet they get all excited at the thought of killing women and children.

you are an a**hole.  Just because you get wet at the thought of killing women and children doesn't mean others do.
What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #66 on: March 15, 2022, 12:23:46 PM »
Our oldest has National service in a couple of years ( Though looks like he can skip that now with new law coming in for kids going into IT) but anyway he went for his medical yesterday, they have to do a few each year to make sure they are fit..

Wife went along.... loads of kids 18/19 all wanting or can't wait to get into the Donbass and fight for Russia..

Comments like these are leading me to believe that this conflict will become a bitter and protracted war with many losses for both Russia and Ukraine. I can almost smell the reek of death from here.

I'm praying for peace and continuing to hope for a ceasefire that will stick.
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Offline chelseaboy

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #67 on: March 15, 2022, 03:10:47 PM »
Our oldest has National service in a couple of years ( Though looks like he can skip that now with new law coming in for kids going into IT) but anyway he went for his medical yesterday, they have to do a few each year to make sure they are fit..

Wife went along.... loads of kids 18/19 all wanting or can't wait to get into the Donbass and fight for Russia..

Yeah i bet they get all excited at the thought of killing women and children.

you are an a**hole.  Just because you get wet at the thought of killing women and children doesn't mean others do.

Idiot.

I'm not one of those who can't wait to get into Ukraine to kill Ukrainians.. Putin Zombie.

I hope the Ukrainian troops slaughter them.

As for you  your posts reek of anti-west pro-Russian propaganda.

At least Steveboy has got the courage of his convictions and lives in Russia..why aren't you living there you hypocritical little keyboard warrior ?
"I find it hard to believe that Russia would target civilians on purpose " Manny 28/2/22

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #68 on: March 15, 2022, 03:33:29 PM »
Our oldest has National service in a couple of years ( Though looks like he can skip that now with new law coming in for kids going into IT) but anyway he went for his medical yesterday, they have to do a few each year to make sure they are fit..

Wife went along.... loads of kids 18/19 all wanting or can't wait to get into the Donbass and fight for Russia..

Yeah i bet they get all excited at the thought of killing women and children.

you are an a**hole.  Just because you get wet at the thought of killing women and children doesn't mean others do.

Idiot.

I'm not one of those who can't wait to get into Ukraine to kill Ukrainians.. Putin Zombie.

I hope the Ukrainian troops slaughter them.

As for you  your posts reek of anti-west pro-Russian propaganda.

At least Steveboy has got the courage of his convictions and lives in Russia..why aren't you living there you hypocritical little keyboard warrior ?

Have you ever served in the military and if so what campaigns did  you serve in?
What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?

Offline chelseaboy

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #69 on: March 15, 2022, 04:16:53 PM »
I served in the Fleet Air Arm ...and i never bombed civilians.

What relevance has this got with you not having the strength of your convictions and not going to live in Russia ?
"I find it hard to believe that Russia would target civilians on purpose " Manny 28/2/22

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #70 on: March 15, 2022, 04:44:30 PM »
they have to do a few each year to make sure they are fit..

They have to do a few each year to establish a baseline to make sure they
don't bribe a doctor to say that they suddenly are not fit for service.

FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

Online 2tallbill

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #71 on: March 15, 2022, 04:48:29 PM »
Gentlemen,

Nobody who has a military age son is excited about sending him
to war. My son has been to Afghanistan and Iraq and is still in the
reserves. Please treat each other with respect and argue your points
without getting personal.

Udachi!

Bill
FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #72 on: March 15, 2022, 05:51:15 PM »
I served in the Fleet Air Arm ...and i never bombed civilians.

What relevance has this got with you not having the strength of your convictions and not going to live in Russia ?
With the exception of my MIL and BIL both of our familes live in the USA. Would you deny us the pleasure of living close to our familes?  We do have a flat in Russian.  We used it for three months this past summer.

I asked about your service because of your unhealty thirst for blood.
What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #73 on: March 15, 2022, 07:51:58 PM »
Our oldest has National service in a couple of years ( Though looks like he can skip that now with new law coming in for kids going into IT) but anyway he went for his medical yesterday, they have to do a few each year to make sure they are fit..

Wife went along.... loads of kids 18/19 all wanting or can't wait to get into the Donbass and fight for Russia..

Comments like these are leading me to believe that this conflict will become a bitter and protracted war with many losses for both Russia and Ukraine. I can almost smell the reek of death from here.

I'm praying for peace and continuing to hope for a ceasefire that will stick.

I have a couple of Russian patients who still keep strong connections with relatives and friends in Russia.
They said to me that Putin has unprecedented support at this time.
Russian people are ready to go through the hardship of sanction and not look at the West as their future.
My patients afraid that it will be dangerous for them to go to Russia any time soon because they are Americans.
This is new reality.

Offline chelseaboy

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Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #74 on: March 16, 2022, 01:53:24 AM »
I served in the Fleet Air Arm ...and i never bombed civilians.

What relevance has this got with you not having the strength of your convictions and not going to live in Russia ?
With the exception of my MIL and BIL both of our familes live in the USA. Would you deny us the pleasure of living close to our familes?  We do have a flat in Russian.  We used it for three months this past summer.

I asked about your service because of your unhealty thirst for blood.

It isn't me who has the unhealthy thirst for blood..it's the 18/19 year-olds in Russia who can't wait to get into Ukraine to fight who have that...as per steveboy's report.

The fact that you won't have a word said against those blood-thirsty Russian 18/19 year-olds would suggest it's YOU that has the unhealthy thirst for blood.

As for you not living in Russia ,well if your family are as anti-western pro- Russian as you are ,what's to stop you all moving to Russia ?

With the economy crashing in Russia you can all pick up some property bargains and live the dream.
"I find it hard to believe that Russia would target civilians on purpose " Manny 28/2/22