The World's #1 Russian, Ukrainian & Eastern European Discussion & Information Forum - RUA!

This Is the Premier Discussion Forum on the Net for Information and Discussion about Russia, Ukraine, Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union. Discuss Culture, Politics, Travelling, Language, International Relationships and More. Chat with Travellers, Locals, Residents and Expats. Ask and Answer Questions about Travel, Culture, Relationships, Applying for Visas, Translators, Interpreters, and More. Give Advice, Read Trip Reports, Share Experiences and Make Friends.

Author Topic: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.  (Read 30324 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline NS1

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6890
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 5-10
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2022, 09:39:00 AM »
Guess Russia should invade Canada and the UK to save Russian folks there too  (:)
There is nothing permanent except change.

Offline Manny

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19719
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2022, 09:41:07 AM »
Bill, they're not embedded in the government, army and security services in other countries or dictating policy. That's the difference.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Online AvHdB

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 14933
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Ukraine, Kiev
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2022, 09:45:35 AM »
Bill asked a fair question, I think I gave an answer. The rest of the limp members here have either ignored the question or managed to do do Moby like swerves.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot


Online 2tallbill

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16559
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2022, 09:47:27 AM »
Here's a delightful young lady I'm sure some of you would like to look up on VK.

In Ukraine as in the UK, Russia, or the US they have women who are spawns
of the devil. Anecdotal evidence of such creatures does not support a widespread
movement among the general population.

I asked you to define what are Nazi's so that I can understand your point
of view. I can't debate you if I don't know where you stand.

FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

Offline NS1

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6890
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 5-10
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2022, 09:56:30 AM »
Putins ( phone) meeting with France and Israel didn't go great, but was said Putin
objectives no longer had denazifying Ukraine as major part of plan.
Guess he solved that already  (:)
There is nothing permanent except change.

Online 2tallbill

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16559
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2022, 10:34:40 AM »
Bill, they're not embedded in the government, army and security services in other countries or dictating policy. That's the difference.

Define what you mean by Nazi's, politically what are their positions? 

There are 19 different political parties in Ukraine with at least
one member in the Duma.
FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

Offline yankee

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1547
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Married
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2022, 10:51:01 AM »
Putins ( phone) meeting with France and Israel didn't go great, but was said Putin
objectives no longer had denazifying Ukraine as major part of plan.
Guess he solved that already  (:)

These are two members of the Ukraine parliment that have been identified as Nazi. 
Arsen Borysovych Avakov
Oleksandr Turchynov


What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?

Offline Manny

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19719
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2022, 10:56:59 AM »
Bill, they're not embedded in the government, army and security services in other countries or dictating policy. That's the difference.

Define what you mean by Nazi's, politically what are their positions? 

There are 19 different political parties in Ukraine with at least
one member in the Duma.

There are over 130 political parties in Ukraine, you'll find among those that have Nazis in them, like Svoboda, they don't all sing from the same sheet and have identical views.

Thus, it isn't a narrow definition. You know what a Nazi is in this context, Bill. You can look up Azov or Svoboda as easily as anyone here. You can term it neo-Naziism, ethnic ultranationalism or Banderism if you prefer. I suspect you are trying to push me down this rabbit hole of specifics in order to claim that Nazis are socialists and ergo, the radical far-right in Ukraine are not Nazis. That isn't really the case as the WAPO discusses here.

Here is something you can get your teeth into: The Presence of Neo-Nazis in Ukraine - Russia is using the presence of neo-Nazis in Ukraine as a pretext for war, but the West is sweeping it under the rug

Why not keep it simple using the 'quacks like a duck' theory: If they use Nazi insignia, they're Nazis. That simplifies it somewhat.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline Contrarian

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 13097
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2022, 12:12:45 PM »
Putins ( phone) meeting with France and Israel didn't go great, but was said Putin
objectives no longer had denazifying Ukraine as major part of plan.
Guess he solved that already  (:)

These are two members of the Ukraine parliment that have been identified as Nazi. 
Arsen Borysovych Avakov
Oleksandr Turchynov


Historically Communism has killed far far more people than Fascism.

Historically in both Ukraine and Russia Communism has killed at least 40 Million people. Most were starved, tortured and worked to death in Gulags in Siberia.

The number of people allegedly killed by Fascists is minuscule in comparison.

What business does Russia have telling Ukrainians, no matter what their party affiliation is, how to live their lives?

They don't.

Perhaps Ukrainians should be telling Russia how to live their lives and Ukrainians should be invading Russia in order to de-Communize Russia.

According to this article, there are 57 Communists in the Russian Duma. It might be old or slightly off, but you get the point.

Unless the alleged Ukrainian Fascists are invading Russia, than Russia has no business worrying about it.

You can be sure there are more Neo-Nazi's in the St. Petersburg area, working for Putin via Wagner. He likes them when they are doing dirty deeds for him.


Now let me repeat: there are 57 Communists in the Russian Duma.

Communists have tortured and murdered far more than Fascists ever dreamed of. So let's encourage Ukrainians to invade Russia and de-Communize Russia.

In the meantime let's encourage Putin to GTFO of Ukraine and mind his own Pariah business of the country he has destroyed due to his inability to live according to International Law.


Quote

"Elections for the Duma are slightly more competitive. The ruling United Russia party won 49.82% of the vote in the 2021 Duma election, which translated into a supermajority of 324 of the 450 seats in the Duma. The Communist Party, still headed by Gennady Zyuganov, is the only serious competitor – they polled 18.93% of the vote, but only won 57 seats. Other parties with more than 5% of the vote were the SRZP, LDPR and New People parties."


https://siberianlight.net/is-russia-still-communist/

Online Faux Pas

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 612
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2022, 02:24:46 PM »
Here's a delightful young lady I'm sure some of you would like to look up on VK.

In Ukraine as in the UK, Russia, or the US they have women who are spawns
of the devil. Anecdotal evidence of such creatures does not support a widespread
movement among the general population.

I asked you to define what are Nazi's so that I can understand your point
of view. I can't debate you if I don't know where you stand.

Something that has been ignored in your query Bill, is the fact that the strongest and most powerful Nazi's are not the skinheads waving flags with eagles tattooed on their chests. No sir, the worse Nazi's don't even claim to be Nazi's. The JP Morgan's, Henry Fords, Prescott Bush's, Rothchilds, Sherf's, Goldman Sach's and even the Roosevelts. It is they and their ilk that were the worse Nazi's in WW2.

They were worse than Hitler, Himmler and the gas chambers. They financed the Hitler war machine and brought him to power for the sole purpose of doing exactly what he did. For nothing more than profit, power, world domination and death. They've done it throughout the centuries and continue to do it to this day. They are doing it again.

Personally I believe these are the people that Putin is at war with, Ukraine happens to be the staging ground and where he drew the line in the sand and it is them forcing Putin's hand. They are Nazi's, Communist, Fascist, democratic or anything else that will help them to achieve their goals. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.

Offline NS1

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6890
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 5-10
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2022, 03:03:03 PM »
Here's a delightful young lady I'm sure some of you would like to look up on VK.

In Ukraine as in the UK, Russia, or the US they have women who are spawns
of the devil. Anecdotal evidence of such creatures does not support a widespread
movement among the general population.

I asked you to define what are Nazi's so that I can understand your point
of view. I can't debate you if I don't know where you stand.

Something that has been ignored in your query Bill, is the fact that the strongest and most powerful Nazi's are not the skinheads waving flags with eagles tattooed on their chests. No sir, the worse Nazi's don't even claim to be Nazi's. The JP Morgan's, Henry Fords, Prescott Bush's, Rothchilds, Sherf's, Goldman Sach's and even the Roosevelts. It is they and their ilk that were the worse Nazi's in WW2.

They were worse than Hitler, Himmler and the gas chambers. They financed the Hitler war machine and brought him to power for the sole purpose of doing exactly what he did. For nothing more than profit, power, world domination and death. They've done it throughout the centuries and continue to do it to this day. They are doing it again.

Personally I believe these are the people that Putin is at war with, Ukraine happens to be the staging ground and where he drew the line in the sand and it is them forcing Putin's hand. They are Nazi's, Communist, Fascist, democratic or anything else that will help them to achieve their goals. Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.
You missed one in your list, Putin.
He is more like a Nazi than any of them.
There is nothing permanent except change.

Offline Manny

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19719
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2022, 03:12:52 PM »
You missed one in your list, Putin.
He is more like a Nazi than any of them.

You're really sore about that lost land of your wife's in Crimea aren't you?
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline NS1

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6890
  • Country: ca
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 5-10
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2022, 03:20:39 PM »
You missed one in your list, Putin.
He is more like a Nazi than any of them.

You're really sore about that lost land of your wife's in Crimea aren't you?
Not really, I like pointing out the obvious.
You like to make excuses for it tiphat
There is nothing permanent except change.

Online 2tallbill

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16559
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2022, 03:25:50 PM »
These are two members of the Ukraine parliment that have been identified as Nazi. 
Arsen Borysovych Avakov
Oleksandr Turchynov

They have been identified as Nazi, how what are their political views that make
them Nazi's? Do they goose step? Have a funny mustache? Tell me what & how.

I could argue that 1/3 of the Democrats in congress are Nazi's or have several
views that would qualify them as such.

FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

Online 2tallbill

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16559
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2022, 03:38:34 PM »
Something that has been ignored in your query Bill,

That part of my query was far from comprehensive. I need to know what
we are arguing about. I need to make sure we talking about the same thing.

There are many, many elements of Nazism. Which ones are present in the
Ukraine/Russia debate? Which ones are missing? Which ones offend Manny?
Which ones concern Putin?

Regarding your comments, I think that Prescot Bush was a piker compared
to Mark Zuckerberg or Wells Fargo Bank.

FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

Online 2tallbill

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 16559
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2022, 05:21:17 PM »
I could argue that 1/3 of the Democrats in congress are Nazi's or have several
views that would qualify them as such.

The far out Ukrainian Party won less than 2% of the vote in the last election and
they elected ZERO members to the Rada.
FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

Online Faux Pas

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 612
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2022, 06:38:44 PM »
Regarding your comments, I think that Prescot Bush was a piker compared
to Mark Zuckerberg or Wells Fargo Bank.

I would agree with that wholeheartedly. Manny can speak for himself. But the way I see the entire scenario is, there is a number of Nazi's in this equation. I also see the same bad actors that have fomented wars for centuries. I can't say I know what Putin's motivation is but, I have a pretty good idea who his enemy is and, it's not Ukraine. It's NATO, the West, The UN, WEF and their need for world domination.

They can call Putin a lot of names but a dummy who's over estimated his ability in Ukraine isn't one of them. He's a proven strategist and he's going to do what he believes is right for Russia, as he should. Back to the Nazi question, yes there are ample Nazi's in Ukraine and all for corners of the world. The one's wearing the tatts and shouting it from the roof tops are not the scary ones


You missed one in your list, Putin.
He is more like a Nazi than any of them.


An Authortarian very likely, a Nazi? Not in this instance. I believe you to be grasping at straws that just simply are not there. He may even be a dyed in the wool Pinko Commie *snip* but I don't think that's it either. Whatever he is, it's not what the West and NATO countries are, is it?


Offline BillyB

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2798
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2022, 09:37:12 PM »

Western government influence and the Soros Foundation heavy presence in Ukraine are some reasons Putin wants to denazify it. Look at some of our governments totalitarian behavior during the pandemic. They showed their true colors. They were building "COVID" camps and putting out advertising for people to be trained as guards. They were forcing people to take experimental vaccines. Camps and forcing people to be part of experiments were things the Nazis did. Our governments let thugs like Antifa and BLM terrorize the streets. Fascist governments allowed black and brownshirts to do that in the 30's. Our governments haven't been good to us and they certainly won't be good for Ukraine.

Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776. If you want to stop the war in Ukraine, fix elections, stop medical tyranny and forced vaccinations, lower inflation and make America and the world a better place, get Trump back into power. The Democrats and Republicans have shown they can't do the job. They are good at robbing us and getting people killed in non stop wars.

Offline andrew99

  • Member
  • Posts: 373
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2022, 12:38:30 AM »
I have been to Ukraine in 2020

I think people need to get out in nature and turn off the TV and these nazis will disappear  from people's heads


Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8552
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2022, 12:59:06 AM »
I have been to Ukraine in 2020

I think people need to get out in nature and turn off the TV and these nazis will disappear  from people's heads

I wish you were right, yet you arent.

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/04/nazis-ukrainian-war-russia/
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Online andrewfi

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 20730
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Articles About Almost Anything!
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2022, 03:00:43 AM »
I have been to Ukraine in 2020

I think people need to get out in nature and turn off the TV and these nazis will disappear  from people's heads

I wish you were right, yet you arent.

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/04/nazis-ukrainian-war-russia/

There is, I am coming to think, a structural issue here.

Although open support for the, shall we call them, far-right nationalists in Ukraine (and not just Ukraine) is relatively low, perhaps around 10%, there is a much larger proportion of people who are generally sympathetic to the ideals of these groups.

As we already know, it takes only a relatively small number of vocal supporters of a social goal, almost any social goal, to impose their will upon general society. The number is reckoned by those who know about this stuff, to be around 10% of the population.

This means that in Ukraine, and other countries close by, there are millions of people who will say or think something along the lines of 'well, there's not much wrong with what they are saying and doing.' So it isn't just a case of rooting out the hardline people who have over the past 8 years become embedded in the body politic and armed forces of Ukraine, but about influencing the general attitudes of the population as a whole - much as was attempted in Germany after the Great Patriotic War. That process, itself, tends to lead to restrictions on free speech and acceptable thought which troubled me in the past - and still do today albeit in a slightly different context.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline rosco

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5939
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 10-20
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2022, 03:04:34 AM »

I have been to Ukraine in 2020

I think people need to get out in nature and turn off the TV and these nazis will disappear  from people's heads

I’m not sure that your trip to Ukraine in 2020, renders everyone else’s opinion automatically void.

Offline andrew99

  • Member
  • Posts: 373
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2022, 05:15:54 AM »

I have been to Ukraine in 2020

I think people need to get out in nature and turn off the TV and these nazis will disappear  from people's heads

I’m not sure that your trip to Ukraine in 2020, renders everyone else’s opinion automatically void.

I have been a place where people here seem to believe its run by nazis? Are you serious and do people even know what nazi is? Maybe little green men as well as running around Kharkov?

Offline andrew99

  • Member
  • Posts: 373
  • Country: au
  • Gender: Male
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #48 on: March 14, 2022, 05:20:19 AM »
I have been to Ukraine in 2020

I think people need to get out in nature and turn off the TV and these nazis will disappear  from people's heads

I wish you were right, yet you arent.

https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/04/nazis-ukrainian-war-russia/

There is, I am coming to think, a structural issue here.

Although open support for the, shall we call them, far-right nationalists in Ukraine (and not just Ukraine) is relatively low, perhaps around 10%, there is a much larger proportion of people who are generally sympathetic to the ideals of these groups.

As we already know, it takes only a relatively small number of vocal supporters of a social goal, almost any social goal, to impose their will upon general society. The number is reckoned by those who know about this stuff, to be around 10% of the population.

This means that in Ukraine, and other countries close by, there are millions of people who will say or think something along the lines of 'well, there's not much wrong with what they are saying and doing.' So it isn't just a case of rooting out the hardline people who have over the past 8 years become embedded in the body politic and armed forces of Ukraine, but about influencing the general attitudes of the population as a whole - much as was attempted in Germany after the Great Patriotic War. That process, itself, tends to lead to restrictions on free speech and acceptable thought which troubled me in the past - and still do today albeit in a slightly different context.

Have you ever been to Ukraine ? who is telling you 1 out of 10 people belongs to a nazi or  right group in Ukraine? just curious?

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 8552
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Nazis in Ukraine - Denazification.
« Reply #49 on: March 14, 2022, 05:39:25 AM »



Have you ever been to Ukraine ? who is telling you 1 out of 10 people belongs to a nazi or  right group in Ukraine? just curious?

- Ukrainian news
- Western news ( although they suddenly downplay/deny it)
- Russian news
- Aljazeera news.
- Friends living in Kharkov/Kherson.

Here's a good starter :
https://thegrayzone.com/2022/03/04/nazis-ukrainian-war-russia/
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria