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Author Topic: Dutch Guy living in Kiev  (Read 472 times)

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Online Markje

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Dutch Guy living in Kiev
« on: March 03, 2022, 02:43:11 AM »
https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/1991169667/peter-dijkstra-woont-in-kiev-en-is-daar-nog-steeds-van-slapen-komt-bitter-weinig

Article is in Dutch and Paywalled, its also very long so I will not translate it fully.

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Peter lives in Kiev and is still there, because he did not want to be chased away by the Russians. In the hall of his appartment in the center of Kiev he turned over one of his couches and tries to sleep below it. Its to protect him from flying glass and other small debris during his sleep.
Right, so its war in Kiev and there is fighting going on near the center.

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He says: I can almost not sleep because of the air raids alarm. It gets to your nerves. Also the continuous explosions and the stress of it all makes sleeping very difficult. I have slept very badly the whole week and notice it affects me a lot.
The alarm does more harm than good. Anyone knows by now its not safe outside on the streets. Why would they continue sounding it is beyond me.

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The man stayed because he wanted to help people, do what he could. Give blood, help out. But reality has superseded his good intentions. You can really do nothing because at night you have to stay inside. During the day its also very dangerous, i'd rather stay inside and only go out for groceries.
Aha, so normal groceries are available or this man would not leave his home.

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If people spot you walking down the street and think you're Russian you're being shot at. There are people with kalasjnikovs that you have to show your identity papers every other street. Its very tense when someone with a kalasjnikov asks what you're doing and who you are. My dutch passport is very positive, Amsterdam, Amsterdam they cry to eachother.
I hope Manny is paying attention to this, it supports his theory that it makes the locals into combatants and not just civilians. Either way it makes walking down the street dangerous as Russians and Ukrainians look alike, but this man is probably left alone cause he looks Caucasian and not Slavic. (His picture is in the article before the paywall)

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Tuesday Peter attempted a walk to the local trainstation to see if he could get out of the city. The situation there was dire, it was women and children first and I understand that. I do not want to get between them and freedom. On the road he spotted many car wrecks on road crossings. They were destroyed not because of military fire, but because traffic lights had failed. People drive way too fast and the accidents are an unfortunate results.
I suppose people drive fast to avoid being shot at.

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Peter would like to leave the city because he stayed with good intentions. However he has come to the conclusion he is just 'another mouth to feed' and therefore wants out. He leaves behind his car with a full tank of gas, so others can use that to stay warm and keep electricity going from his car battery. It is expected that electricity will faill soon.
So he has a full tank of gas , in his car , but he won't use it to leave. Thats just plain stupid.

The rest of the article is just papperazzi pulp about him personally and nothing to do with the war so no need to put it down here.

Mark.
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Offline Wiz

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Re: Dutch Guy living in Kiev
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2022, 04:32:20 AM »
Mark

On my usual Greek Radio and also TV channels, I heard many similar reports like yours.

Thursday 24, the day of the invasion a Greek chap from Kiev was talking on the radio giving us the perfect picture about Kiev and telling us all shope ere working  etc.

I took a look at the Reuters live TV from Ukraina Hotel.... and everything was  normal. Then he told us that the police is giving guns to whoever can curry one.
By Sunday he ended his reports and he started telling us that fight is going on between the Russian army  and theh local resistance.........

I tried to listen to him again but the station said they cannot access him, despite they had his home and mobile number..... HE IS NOT BACK AGAIN!

SOME PEOPLE LIKE A BIT OF FAME AND LIE A BIT TOO!

 :nod:
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Online andrewfi

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Re: Dutch Guy living in Kiev
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2022, 05:39:44 AM »
I have a funny feeling that any 'fighting' that the guy heard is not Russian forces but people given guns shooting at each other.

A several reasons for this:
1) We know that this is happening, people, including the guy in the article you shared have told us this is happening and it has been reported elsewhere in Ukraine.

2) The Russians have surrounded the city and apart from the destruction of a transmission tower in the city, carried out by air, the Russian forces are staying out of the city. A humanitarian corridor has been opened for those who want to leave; bus and train services are running out of the city. This fits with Russian doctrine, it is what they have done in Syria and elsewhere in Ukraine.

3) The Russians want to keep the Ukrainian government in Kiev, not as prisoners but for communication purposes. A large scale advance into the city would cause the government to make like pandas and it'd be pretty hard to deal with them.
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Offline Manny

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Re: Dutch Guy living in Kiev
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2022, 06:14:04 AM »
I hope Manny is paying attention to this, it supports his theory that it makes the locals into combatants and not just civilians.

I think it was Andrew that noted that originally. But it's right. Give a bloke a gun, once he starts shooting at people he becomes a combatant and thus a viable target. But if the Russians killed him, he'd be called a civilian of course.

But Andrew's point above is obvious if you think about it I suppose. If Kiev is surrounded, who is doing the shooting inside? It can only be locals.
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Re: Dutch Guy living in Kiev
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2022, 08:59:06 AM »
I wonder where the illegal cluster bombs are coming from then if the Russians aren't trying to hurt civilians?
The International Court now has video evidence they are investigating of them being used on Ukrainian apartment blocks. Some people better not ever leave Russia again once this is done.

Offline NS1

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Re: Dutch Guy living in Kiev
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2022, 04:52:22 AM »
No one wants to Negotiate with Kiev officials,
they want to Kill Zelenzky and over throw Government.
Anyone saying different needs to stop drinking.
There is nothing permanent except change.

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Re: Dutch Guy living in Kiev
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2022, 05:13:57 AM »
No one wants to Negotiate with Kiev officials,
they want to Kill Zelenzky and over throw Government.
Anyone saying different needs to stop drinking.

And yet, in the last 3 days its the Ukrainian gov't that has failed to show up multiple times whilst the Russians were there.

I understand, in their position i also would not negotiate but please stop pretending then.
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Online andrewfi

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Re: Dutch Guy living in Kiev
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2022, 06:12:31 AM »
I wonder where the illegal cluster bombs are coming from then if the Russians aren't trying to hurt civilians?
The International Court now has video evidence they are investigating of them being used on Ukrainian apartment blocks. Some people better not ever leave Russia again once this is done.

It seems rather odd that cluster munitions would be used as you suggest they have been used. That's because of what cluster munitions are, what they are designed for, and why they are used.

You may not know this, but cluster munitions are designed to be used in open spaces. They cover a huge area. Obviously, there are different types with differing areas of effect, but all share the same principle - to cause damage across a wide area. Most armies claim to use them against structures such as electricity pylons and communications as they are very effective in that role and it gives a rationale for their use that is not inhumane. They are not a good choice for the destruction of large buildings.

In terms of the coverage area, I have seen references to areas that are about 3 football pitches (American Football) in size. They are for use in open areas to give an effect that is much more cost-effective (and yes it is about money!) than covering the area with conventional munitions.

From a practical perspective, if one wanted to hit and destroy apartment blocks then a cluster bomb is not a good choice. A single missile or a few shells from a field gun would be much more effective.

If the Russian cluster munitions had been issued to the forces in Ukraine then they would not be used as the Ukrainians and some others have claimed. it would not be isolated incidents, there would be a clear pattern of use.

The use of cluster munitions against civilians would be outside of the doctrine that is very clearly being followed by the Russian forces in Ukraine, that is to minimise damage to civilians and civilian infrastructure. Again, if the doctrine was to use cluster munitions, then, because of their effectiveness when used as designed, they would have been more widely deployed.

My guess is that both cluster and thermobaric munitions will be used against large deployments of Ukrainian, probably Azov, forces in the open. Further, I suggest that will only happen if those forces refuse to lay down their arms. Again, because of the way that the Russian forces have been interacting with Ukrainian forces and that the Russian military has made it clear that the nationalist battalions will be treated differently to the regular army.

From what I have seen, my suspicion is that what we have seen are cases of Ukrainian use of such munitions for propaganda purposes. That is cluster weapons deployed by elements of the Ukrainian military against Ukrainian targets. That's because it makes the most sense given what we already know. It fits with previous actions of elements of the Ukrainian forces, it panders to western government, NGO and media prejudices and thus fits the perceived needs of part, but far from all, of the Ukrainian power vertical.
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Offline NS1

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Re: Dutch Guy living in Kiev
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2022, 09:12:20 AM »
No one wants to Negotiate with Kiev officials,
they want to Kill Zelenzky and over throw Government.
Anyone saying different needs to stop drinking.

And yet, in the last 3 days its the Ukrainian gov't that has failed to show up multiple times whilst the Russians were there.

I understand, in their position i also would not negotiate but please stop pretending then.
Officials showed up in Belrus from both sides. Nothing first time, maybe open up humanitarian corridor 2nd.
There is nothing permanent except change.