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Author Topic: Rules of Engagement  (Read 310 times)

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Online Lord of the Dance

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Rules of Engagement
« on: February 28, 2022, 08:24:02 PM »
Interested in your thoughts on the rules of engagement of the current conflict in Ukraine. It's obviously not a cut-&-dried situation and is still evolving of course, but it's looking more and more like a 'Russian Tsunami' of forces is bearing down on Ukraine and may well lead to an incredible amount of bloodshed (hopefully NOT!) given the apparently fervant resistance of many Ukrainians.

But do you think the Russian military will treat a teenager or grandpa throwing a Molotov cocktail in the same way as a Ukrainian soldier with an automatic rifle, or will they differentiate between a military combatant and a 'civilian combatant?' On the one hand, both could be considered lethal weapons. But on the other hand, I would much rather dodge a flaming bottle of glass than a wall of bullets... not really a fair comparison.

If we assume that it's inevitable that Russia will gain complete military control of Ukraine, what will they do with all the civilians who joined the resistance?

Express your opinions but please don't fight guys... we're not the ones at war here and I'm really trying to better understand this conflict.
"My soul cries out with a joyful shout that the God of my heart is great, and my spirit sings of the wondrous things that you bring to the ones who wait." - Canticle of the Turning

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Re: Rules of Engagement
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2022, 08:35:47 PM »
Should Russia win the conflict they will declare that whether a civilian or Ukrainian military anyone who fought back against them will be up for some sort of charges, you can be 100% sure of that. That is if they're still alive, because you can also be 100% sure that the Russian military will do their best to kill them in the first place.


BTW it is absolutely NOT "inevitable that Russia will gain complete military control of Ukraine" and in fact I hereby predict that Russia NEVER gains "complete military control of Ukraine". IF they gain even partial military control of Ukraine, you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be very, very short lived.

Russia is spending about $20 Billion on this fiasco, DAILY. The Russian Oligarchs are pissed off, to say the least, as they are losing HUGE amounts of money. Russia is not going to last another 7 or 8 days in Ukraine, and then they're going to be hightailing it BACK to Russia.

Putin isn't going to be in power much longer either. You can be sure the Russian power structure is grumbling to each other right now, as we post.
I read carefully everything you wrote about doing business with Russians....they will always wait for the moment to rob and destroy you.

Online Lord of the Dance

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Re: Rules of Engagement
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2022, 08:55:14 PM »
BTW it is absolutely NOT "inevitable that Russia will gain complete military control of Ukraine" and in fact I hereby predict that Russia NEVER gains "complete military control of Ukraine". IF they gain even partial military control of Ukraine, you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be very, very short lived.

If the resistance effort continues it would seem likely that Russia will indeed struggle to hold control of the whole country, if they can reach that point at all. If the resistance collapses or starves it'll happen pretty quickly, I would assume.
"My soul cries out with a joyful shout that the God of my heart is great, and my spirit sings of the wondrous things that you bring to the ones who wait." - Canticle of the Turning


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Re: Rules of Engagement
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2022, 09:02:27 PM »
BTW it is absolutely NOT "inevitable that Russia will gain complete military control of Ukraine" and in fact I hereby predict that Russia NEVER gains "complete military control of Ukraine". IF they gain even partial military control of Ukraine, you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be very, very short lived.

If the resistance effort continues it would seem likely that Russia will indeed struggle to hold control of the whole country, if they can reach that point at all. If the resistance collapses or starves it'll happen pretty quickly, I would assume.


I'm only giving my opinion: based on the marvelous spirit of resistance so far!

I agree with you that it's possible that at some point soon the Ukrainians might become overwhelmed, however if they do I believe they will quickly regroup and kick the Russians out!

However based on the marvelous Ukrainian fighting spirit, and based on the Ukrainians getting more weapons, probably right now, or shortly, they will have a renewed capacity to fight back.  :whistle:
I read carefully everything you wrote about doing business with Russians....they will always wait for the moment to rob and destroy you.

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Re: Rules of Engagement
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2022, 11:07:13 PM »
I'm only giving my opinion: based on the marvelous spirit of resistance so far!

I agree with you that it's possible that at some point soon the Ukrainians might become overwhelmed, however if they do I believe they will quickly regroup and kick the Russians out!

However based on the marvelous Ukrainian fighting spirit, and based on the Ukrainians getting more weapons, probably right now, or shortly, they will have a renewed capacity to fight back.  :whistle:

I heard there will be quite a bit of incoming weaponry via the border with Poland. Whether Russia was looking for a fight or not, it's looking more and more like they've got one. I'm fearful this war is going to get very bloody, very quickly. Praying for a peace deal that will save lives on both sides.
"My soul cries out with a joyful shout that the God of my heart is great, and my spirit sings of the wondrous things that you bring to the ones who wait." - Canticle of the Turning

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Re: Rules of Engagement
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2022, 09:34:33 PM »
I'm only giving my opinion: based on the marvelous spirit of resistance so far!

I agree with you that it's possible that at some point soon the Ukrainians might become overwhelmed, however if they do I believe they will quickly regroup and kick the Russians out!

However based on the marvelous Ukrainian fighting spirit, and based on the Ukrainians getting more weapons, probably right now, or shortly, they will have a renewed capacity to fight back.  :whistle:

I heard there will be quite a bit of incoming weaponry via the border with Poland. Whether Russia was looking for a fight or not, it's looking more and more like they've got one. I'm fearful this war is going to get very bloody, very quickly. Praying for a peace deal that will save lives on both sides.

I heard there will be quite a bit of incoming weaponry via the border with Poland. Whether Russia was looking for a fight or not, it's looking more and more like they've got one. I'm fearful this war is going to get very bloody, very quickly. Praying for a peace deal that will save lives on both sides.

May I ask “if you know”…… Is Ukraine a NATO Member?

If it is NOT then why the American NATO leadership has asked all other NATO members, to provide arm supplies to a NON Member and deliver them to Poland? I expect everybody will agree that we must send Medicine health supplies and also doctors if necessry....or food.

Silly me, it is obvious….. the USA is not looking to help Ukraine but to find an excuse for NATO to get involved in a war on a European land, usual playground for world wars and where all big wars previously were fought.

The Hegemon is looking for a way to protect its World Reserve Currency $ Dollar which is nothing more than a toilet paper, supported by an external Dept of 31 Trillion Dollars, but in reality, according to well informed people, it’s more close to $200 Trillion dollars flying around without any real support, like gold or silver. The $ is flying high now, on the expectation of a WW in Europe and not on American soil and that is the real reason why America pushed Russia to react with a war against your poor clown Zelenskyy. Just a few days before Russia started any action, you brought back the previous Servant of yours , Poroshenko to help, just in case the clown was shot or not up for the job.

I noticed that the Russian planes have not bombed Lvov or Lviv for the trolls…. Lviv it’s not only the main town for the Banderites…. but was a mixed town as the west Lviv is full of Russians…. leftovers of the 1991 collapse of the USSR, according to a woman I met, in 2003. I guess  many of then probably were working for KGB….

Will Poland, I am guessing, cover the transport vehicles with the RED CROSS signs and as you say, would it be obvious that Russia will attack those convoys who crossed the frontiers without any border inspection/permit?

Well that is the dirty game played from the Alzheimer President at no cost to USA…..

I am also Appalled with our clown PM and the EU who have ordered all countries to expel Russian students.

tiphat
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Re: Rules of Engagement
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2022, 10:05:09 PM »
(an excerpt from an article I was just reading on the subject)

"Civilians may lose their protected status in certain circumstances. When insurgents or guerrillas live among the civilian population, soldiers may take measures to ferret out the enemy, including the use of interrogations, searches, and curfews. Although the individual liberty of civilians can be temporarily curtailed in such situations, it cannot be permanently eliminated. Protracted internment of entire villages or groups of civilians is not allowed. Civilian supporters who carry weapons or grenades forfeit their protected status, however, and may be detained as prisoners of war or saboteurs. If soldiers seek to destroy an entire village that is known to be an enemy stronghold, civilians must normally be informed of the action ahead of time and permitted to evacuate."

So it would seem that any notion of going easier on the Ukrainian civilians who are producing and throwing improvised weapons is probably out the window. Once you pick up a weapon of any sort, you are a combatant and will be treated as such. I suppose that in the heat of battle that would mean death, and in the case of detention or surrender that would mean being taken a POW. I'm interested to see how this conflict plays out, but I feel dread for all parties involved... unless some sort of peace deal is brokered immediately I fear many deaths are yet to come.
"My soul cries out with a joyful shout that the God of my heart is great, and my spirit sings of the wondrous things that you bring to the ones who wait." - Canticle of the Turning

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Re: Rules of Engagement
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2022, 10:15:11 PM »
Putin made clear in no uncertain terms that other nations are not to interfere with Russia's military actions in Ukraine or may face severe repercussions. Several countries are already sending military aid directly into Ukraine at this very moment. Should we expect Russia to seek serious retaliatory actions (beyond sanctions) against these countries for sending aid, or does this warning only apply to boots-on-the-ground / airspace interference?
"My soul cries out with a joyful shout that the God of my heart is great, and my spirit sings of the wondrous things that you bring to the ones who wait." - Canticle of the Turning

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Re: Rules of Engagement
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2022, 03:45:16 AM »
Lord of the Dance, here is a link to an article containing the words you quoted above: https://law.jrank.org/pages/9958/Rules-War-Soldiers-Civilians.html

It seems to be authoritative.

It is clear that Russian forces have been following practices from Syria, that is they enable routes for civilians to leave areas that may become dangerous, for example in Kiev.

They are clearly not indiscriminately attacking civilian infrastructure or civilians themselves.

And yes, it certainly seems that by giving weapons to all and sundry and also training civilians to make petrol bombs the Ukrainians are making their civilians who take part in this evil action into combatants. Russian troops will, I am pretty sure, based upon what has happened in the past, endure significant risk and harm to themselves rather than engage with civilians, no matter how reckless those people might be.

However, in the end, they may need to treat them as hostile combatants and that's going to result in bloodshed. However, as your linked article points out, at that point these Ukrainians are no longer civilians, they are combatants. The rules change as soon as they take up arms against the Russian forces.
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Re: Rules of Engagement
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2022, 04:36:28 AM »
Lord of the Dance, here is a link to an article containing the words you quoted above: https://law.jrank.org/pages/9958/Rules-War-Soldiers-Civilians.html

It seems to be authoritative.

It is clear that Russian forces have been following practices from Syria, that is they enable routes for civilians to leave areas that may become dangerous, for example in Kiev.

They are clearly not indiscriminately attacking civilian infrastructure or civilians themselves.

And yes, it certainly seems that by giving weapons to all and sundry and also training civilians to make petrol bombs the Ukrainians are making their civilians who take part in this evil action into combatants. Russian troops will, I am pretty sure, based upon what has happened in the past, endure significant risk and harm to themselves rather than engage with civilians, no matter how reckless those people might be.

However, in the end, they may need to treat them as hostile combatants and that's going to result in bloodshed. However, as your linked article points out, at that point these Ukrainians are no longer civilians, they are combatants. The rules change as soon as they take up arms against the Russian forces.
It seems the voices from the Kremlin are speaking here.
Let’s not forget what happened in Grozny where Putin had the entire city leveled to a pile of rubble.
That’s whats happening now in cities across Ukraine. Targeting of the civilian population to force an accommodation by Zelensky.
The whole world is cognizant of this and rejects these tactics in an unwarranted and illegal invasion, except for a few Putinologists on this here forum.

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Re: Rules of Engagement
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2022, 10:13:14 AM »
Lord of the Dance, here is a link to an article containing the words you quoted above: https://law.jrank.org/pages/9958/Rules-War-Soldiers-Civilians.html

It seems to be authoritative.

It is clear that Russian forces have been following practices from Syria, that is they enable routes for civilians to leave areas that may become dangerous, for example in Kiev.

They are clearly not indiscriminately attacking civilian infrastructure or civilians themselves.

And yes, it certainly seems that by giving weapons to all and sundry and also training civilians to make petrol bombs the Ukrainians are making their civilians who take part in this evil action into combatants. Russian troops will, I am pretty sure, based upon what has happened in the past, endure significant risk and harm to themselves rather than engage with civilians, no matter how reckless those people might be.

However, in the end, they may need to treat them as hostile combatants and that's going to result in bloodshed. However, as your linked article points out, at that point these Ukrainians are no longer civilians, they are combatants. The rules change as soon as they take up arms against the Russian forces.
It seems the voices from the Kremlin are speaking here.
Let’s not forget what happened in Grozny where Putin had the entire city leveled to a pile of rubble.
That’s whats happening now in cities across Ukraine. Targeting of the civilian population to force an accommodation by Zelensky.
The whole world is cognizant of this and rejects these tactics in an unwarranted and illegal invasion, except for a few Putinologists on this here forum.

+1
I read carefully everything you wrote about doing business with Russians....they will always wait for the moment to rob and destroy you.

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Re: Rules of Engagement
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2022, 12:26:13 PM »
Lord of the Dance, here is a link to an article containing the words you quoted above: https://law.jrank.org/pages/9958/Rules-War-Soldiers-Civilians.html

It seems to be authoritative.

It is clear that Russian forces have been following practices from Syria, that is they enable routes for civilians to leave areas that may become dangerous, for example in Kiev.

They are clearly not indiscriminately attacking civilian infrastructure or civilians themselves.

And yes, it certainly seems that by giving weapons to all and sundry and also training civilians to make petrol bombs the Ukrainians are making their civilians who take part in this evil action into combatants. Russian troops will, I am pretty sure, based upon what has happened in the past, endure significant risk and harm to themselves rather than engage with civilians, no matter how reckless those people might be.

However, in the end, they may need to treat them as hostile combatants and that's going to result in bloodshed. However, as your linked article points out, at that point these Ukrainians are no longer civilians, they are combatants. The rules change as soon as they take up arms against the Russian forces.
It seems the voices from the Kremlin are speaking here.
Let’s not forget what happened in Grozny where Putin had the entire city leveled to a pile of rubble.
That’s whats happening now in cities across Ukraine. Targeting of the civilian population to force an accommodation by Zelensky.
The whole world is cognizant of this and rejects these tactics in an unwarranted and illegal invasion, except for a few Putinologists on this here forum.
Well the whole civilized world.
There is nothing permanent except change.