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Author Topic: Switzerland Chooses a Side  (Read 426 times)

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Offline Contrarian

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Switzerland Chooses a Side
« on: February 28, 2022, 01:21:06 PM »
Switzerland has always chosen to remain neutral in most cases. Not so in this case.

Quote

"One of the latest and most notable reactions to the invasion is that Switzerland has chosen a side. On Monday, the famously neutral country said it would adopt European Union sanctions against Moscow and freeze Russian assets located in the country’s banks. In addition, the government adopted sanctions specifically against Putin, Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin and Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.

“In view of Russia’s continuing military intervention in Ukraine, the Federal Council took the decision on February 28 to adopt the packages of sanctions imposed by the EU on February 23 and 25,” the government said in a statement."


https://www.yahoo.com/news/how-the-world-punished-russia-for-invading-ukraine-192732724.html
I read carefully everything you wrote about doing business with Russians....they will always wait for the moment to rob and destroy you.

Offline NS1

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2022, 01:22:28 PM »
Switzerland has always chosen to remain neutral in most cases. Not so in this case.

Quote

"One of the latest and most notable reactions to the invasion is that Switzerland has chosen a side. On Monday, the famously neutral country said it would adopt European Union sanctions against Moscow and freeze Russian assets located in the country’s banks. In addition, the government adopted sanctions specifically against Putin, Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin and Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.

“In view of Russia’s continuing military intervention in Ukraine, the Federal Council took the decision on February 28 to adopt the packages of sanctions imposed by the EU on February 23 and 25,” the government said in a statement."

Also looks like the Swiss, Sweden and Finland are considering Nato as future options.
They have avoided this for years.
There is nothing permanent except change.

Offline Contrarian

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2022, 01:33:22 PM »
Switzerland has always chosen to remain neutral in most cases. Not so in this case.

Quote

"One of the latest and most notable reactions to the invasion is that Switzerland has chosen a side. On Monday, the famously neutral country said it would adopt European Union sanctions against Moscow and freeze Russian assets located in the country’s banks. In addition, the government adopted sanctions specifically against Putin, Prime Minister Mikhail Mishustin and Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov.

“In view of Russia’s continuing military intervention in Ukraine, the Federal Council took the decision on February 28 to adopt the packages of sanctions imposed by the EU on February 23 and 25,” the government said in a statement."

Also looks like the Swiss, Sweden and Finland are considering Nato as future options.
They have avoided this for years.


All of Putins worst nightmares are coming true.

Paranoia breeds destroya!  :laugh:
I read carefully everything you wrote about doing business with Russians....they will always wait for the moment to rob and destroy you.


Offline Chris

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2022, 01:33:44 PM »
First time in something like 500 years, the Swiss have taken sides.
Слава Україні

Offline cufflinks

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2022, 01:52:07 PM »
The Russians I visited in Moscow on business in 2010 kept the bulk of their reserves deposited in solid gold bars in Swiss Bank Vaults/Private Vault Companies to protect against Black Swan events crashing the value of the Russian Ruble and wiping their reserves out so assume this locks out Putin and the Oligarchs out of their Plan B Gold stashes in the Mountain Fortress of Switzerland.

This is a BFD as they sold a lot of Cell Phone towers and metal goods all across the EU including Italy with their gold reserves in Switzerland - this may be the first real indicator that V2 Putin may have bit off more than he can chew...  If Singapore joins in the Russian Oligarchs are truly phooked...

However this is likely to prove that the Davos WEF Claus Schwab Globalists conspiring with NATO to destroy Russia and cause Putin to double down...

Offline Contrarian

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2022, 01:54:36 PM »
First time in something like 500 years, the Swiss have taken sides.


Has it been 500 years? Wow that's some heavy stuff.
I read carefully everything you wrote about doing business with Russians....they will always wait for the moment to rob and destroy you.

Offline Chris

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2022, 01:57:26 PM »
First time in something like 500 years, the Swiss have taken sides.


Has it been 500 years? Wow that's some heavy stuff.

Actually I think its only 200+ years, Treaty of Paris , but another 300+ before that last time they were involved in any conflict.
Слава Україні

Offline NS1

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2022, 03:32:26 PM »
Putin has done mroe in 4 days to get the west together than any leader in history.
Guess he was successful at something, before his demise.
There is nothing permanent except change.

Offline Faux Pas

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2022, 03:39:32 PM »
Putin has done mroe in 4 days to get the west together than any leader in history.
Guess he was successful at something, before his demise.

That alone should give one pause to stop and think about what is happening."All of the West together" of course they were the same ones pounding the drums of war before the conflict. I'm not pretending to know myself what's going on but it isn't as simple as "Putin bad, Ukraine good"

The Swiss pick a side because it's masters in the central banks have. Usually they are financing both sides so they do not choose, not the case here. That should give one pause too

Offline NS1

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2022, 03:44:47 PM »
Putin has done mroe in 4 days to get the west together than any leader in history.
Guess he was successful at something, before his demise.

That alone should give one pause to stop and think about what is happening."All of the West together" of course they were the same ones pounding the drums of war before the conflict. I'm not pretending to know myself what's going on but it isn't as simple as "Putin bad, Ukraine good"

The Swiss pick a side because it's masters in the central banks have. Usually they are financing both sides so they do not choose, not the case here. That should give one pause too
You could be quite right. simple as Russia bad, Ukraine good.
Watch almost any nation in the world right now.
Even pro RUssian nations for the most part staying silent.

There is nothing permanent except change.

Offline Halo

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2022, 03:58:07 PM »
Putin has done mroe in 4 days to get the west together than any leader in history.
Guess he was successful at something, before his demise.

That alone should give one pause to stop and think about what is happening."All of the West together" of course they were the same ones pounding the drums of war before the conflict. I'm not pretending to know myself what's going on but it isn't as simple as "Putin bad, Ukraine good"

The Swiss pick a side because it's masters in the central banks have. Usually they are financing both sides so they do not choose, not the case here. That should give one pause too

How, exactly, was the West "pounding the drums of war"?  Did "the West" attack Russia?  Nope.  Was Ukraine imminently entering NATO?  Nope.  Was US intelligence lying about the 140,000 troops massed on Ukraine's borders?  No. 

Sounds to me like you're a Putin stooge.  In the 1980's, I would have called you a communist stooge, easily manipulated by KGB disinformation campaigns.
In a world of Putins (including on this forum), be a Zelensky!

Offline Faux Pas

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2022, 04:08:28 PM »

How, exactly, was the West "pounding the drums of war"?  Did "the West" attack Russia?  Nope.  Was Ukraine imminently entering NATO?  Nope.  Was US intelligence lying about the 140,000 troops massed on Ukraine's borders?  No. 

Sounds to me like you're a Putin stooge.  In the 1980's, I would have called you a communist stooge, easily manipulated by KGB disinformation campaigns.

Russia has had over 100K troops at the border with Ukraine  since 2014. If that date doesn't seem significant to you, look it up and find out what happened then to cause it. The fake news media has been declaring a Russian invasion for the last 3 months. Why now? Btw, where in the hell did covid suddenly go?

Well in 2022 I will call you a mindless stooge easily manipulated by your media. Please do try and find yourself an original thought rather than parroting the same shit we can get on CNN and your fav, Google

Offline Faux Pas

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2022, 04:15:59 PM »

You could be quite right. simple as Russia bad, Ukraine good.
Watch almost any nation in the world right now.
Even pro RUssian nations for the most part staying silent.

Staying silent or just not playing their hands at this time? It's hard to discern the truth when the media is lying to us. The UN, leaders of the NATO countries and any others feeding off of them all follow the narrative push by that same media. It's easier just to believe what we're told, believe it, get emotional and react. That's the easy and popular path

Offline Halo

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2022, 04:21:18 PM »
Russia has had over 100K troops at the border with Ukraine  since 2014. If that date doesn't seem significant to you, look it up and find out what happened then to cause it. The fake news media has been declaring a Russian invasion for the last 3 months. Why now? Btw, where in the hell did covid suddenly go?

Well in 2022 I will call you a mindless stooge easily manipulated by your media. Please do try and find yourself an original thought rather than parroting the same shit we can get on CNN and your fav, Google

Russian troops were not massed on the border in Belarus in 2014.  Nor were they massed along the southern border as they were in late 2021/2022. They weren't along the northeastern border of Ukraine, directly in line of Kyiv. They were mostly in Donbas.  It's incomparable.

The "fake news media" didn't cause Russia to invade Ukraine.  It didn't cause Russia to bomb Ukraine's airports and railways.  It didn't cause Russia to kill Ukrainian soldiers and civilians. 

I don't use google and I don't watch CNN.    I read a variety of Canadian and European newspapers.  I rarely read American news sources, as I find them too left/right unbalanced.  But go ahead with you QAnon "theories" from your American centric Russian propaganda position. 
In a world of Putins (including on this forum), be a Zelensky!

Offline NS1

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2022, 04:23:38 PM »

You could be quite right. simple as Russia bad, Ukraine good.
Watch almost any nation in the world right now.
Even pro RUssian nations for the most part staying silent.

Staying silent or just not playing their hands at this time? It's hard to discern the truth when the media is lying to us. The UN, leaders of the NATO countries and any others feeding off of them all follow the narrative push by that same media. It's easier just to believe what we're told, believe it, get emotional and react. That's the easy and popular path
I agree there is alot of fake news, but alot of real time news also.
Today I watched 10 minutes of China in there version of cabinet.
They are saying very little, mostly keep saying, should be diplomatic solution.

We know which countires support Putin, most are just hedging thier bets.
Seeing how this plays out. Today I seen US media in Moscow, talking to Russian, its live.
many don't want war, some were afraid to speak, some supported Putin.

But if you watch and look, most countries are supporting Ukraine.
Does that mean all people in those countries, of course not.
No matter how you feel normally, no one can convicne me
What Putin is doing is in anyway right.

Enough live videos have been released to see attacks on civilians
direct attacks on apartment buildings.

Russia has no right to be in Ukraine Period.
Anyone who supports this is a sad, sick human.
There is nothing permanent except change.

Offline Halo

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2022, 04:25:37 PM »
Anyone who supports this is a sad, sick human.

Yes.  Or denies it is occurring.

I would say the same about anyone attacking Russia.  I said the same about the bombing of Serbia by NATO. I also said the same about the post 9/11 invasion of Iraq.
In a world of Putins (including on this forum), be a Zelensky!

Offline Faux Pas

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2022, 07:31:55 AM »

I agree there is alot of fake news, but alot of real time news also.
Today I watched 10 minutes of China in there version of cabinet.
They are saying very little, mostly keep saying, should be diplomatic solution.

We know which countires support Putin, most are just hedging thier bets.
Seeing how this plays out. Today I seen US media in Moscow, talking to Russian, its live.
many don't want war, some were afraid to speak, some supported Putin.

But if you watch and look, most countries are supporting Ukraine.
Does that mean all people in those countries, of course not.
No matter how you feel normally, no one can convicne me
What Putin is doing is in anyway right.

Enough live videos have been released to see attacks on civilians
direct attacks on apartment buildings.

Russia has no right to be in Ukraine Period.
Anyone who supports this is a sad, sick human.

Just to get this out there and up front, I do not support any war or the killing of innocent people, any where and everywhere. Anyone basing their judgement of this conflict on the fake news from the loudspeakers of the MSM is doing themselves a grave disservice and the innocents in Ukraine a disservice. Is Russia right? No, there is no truth in MSM and that info from both sides. Is the West and NATO right, no.

The Chinese are right, there is a diplomatic solution but the question is, what is it really about and who is avoiding that diplomatic solution? One side is guilty of aggression and the other is drawn into the conflict but both sides are guilty of war but, which side is which? I would caution everyone to believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see. There's too many things not adding up and until the truth is revealed, if it ever is, we just do not know.

Offline NS1

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2022, 04:53:17 PM »

I agree there is alot of fake news, but alot of real time news also.
Today I watched 10 minutes of China in there version of cabinet.
They are saying very little, mostly keep saying, should be diplomatic solution.

We know which countires support Putin, most are just hedging thier bets.
Seeing how this plays out. Today I seen US media in Moscow, talking to Russian, its live.
many don't want war, some were afraid to speak, some supported Putin.

But if you watch and look, most countries are supporting Ukraine.
Does that mean all people in those countries, of course not.
No matter how you feel normally, no one can convicne me
What Putin is doing is in anyway right.

Enough live videos have been released to see attacks on civilians
direct attacks on apartment buildings.

Russia has no right to be in Ukraine Period.
Anyone who supports this is a sad, sick human.

Just to get this out there and up front, I do not support any war or the killing of innocent people, any where and everywhere. Anyone basing their judgement of this conflict on the fake news from the loudspeakers of the MSM is doing themselves a grave disservice and the innocents in Ukraine a disservice. Is Russia right? No, there is no truth in MSM and that info from both sides. Is the West and NATO right, no.

The Chinese are right, there is a diplomatic solution but the question is, what is it really about and who is avoiding that diplomatic solution? One side is guilty of aggression and the other is drawn into the conflict but both sides are guilty of war but, which side is which? I would caution everyone to believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see. There's too many things not adding up and until the truth is revealed, if it ever is, we just do not know.
I Believe it is Putin and him alone.
No, links, big proof, just really look at what he has
said over last 20 years. Look at how over last 3-4 years
smaller and msaller circle, Staying away from public., more isolated.
Alot of talk of history and former glory, stalin, soviet Union, etc.

I think he believes if he can take Russia back and reclaim some of these
countries, He would be a global feared super power. He thinks he will go down
in History as a great RUssian leader.

WHat is funny, is Russia was already a global leader, with the ability to be a very rich and powerful country.
Instead of going forward, he took the country backwards 40 years in a matter of less than a week.
I suspect he will go down as a failed, crazy tyrant who lost touch with reality.

Regardless of what he does now, hes done, no Country will deal with Russia with Putin as its leader.
SO what does Russia do now?
There is nothing permanent except change.

Offline Faux Pas

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2022, 05:33:13 AM »

I Believe it is Putin and him alone.
No, links, big proof, just really look at what he has
said over last 20 years. Look at how over last 3-4 years
smaller and msaller circle, Staying away from public., more isolated.
Alot of talk of history and former glory, stalin, soviet Union, etc.

I think he believes if he can take Russia back and reclaim some of these
countries, He would be a global feared super power. He thinks he will go down
in History as a great RUssian leader.

WHat is funny, is Russia was already a global leader, with the ability to be a very rich and powerful country.
Instead of going forward, he took the country backwards 40 years in a matter of less than a week.
I suspect he will go down as a failed, crazy tyrant who lost touch with reality.

Regardless of what he does now, hes done, no Country will deal with Russia with Putin as its leader.
SO what does Russia do now?

That's fine, you believe what you believe. I'm not a big links poster either. Most of the links anyone posts is nothing more than fake news folks can find to prop up whatever it is they believe. Literally, one can find anything on the internet to support what they believe or want to believe to be true. What's the point of playtime discussions where links to others opinions and stories? Keep discussions cerebral, one on one and help each other actually think about their positions with reason and logic without screaming at each other while posting useless links.

I think you are wrong. There is something more bothering Putin than going down in history of being just another conqueror from Russia. You said yourself Russia is already a powerful nation and on it's way up. Why would he risk that over dominating his much smaller neighbor? He's already president for life, probably one of the world's richest men. Is it just about power? Or could it be about protecting what he's already gained. Is he a saint? No. He had to know many of the world's powerful governments, media, companies and militaries would turn against him. I see something else afoot we may not even be aware of. Brushing it off as just another madman looking to dominate the world would be a mistake. Look at all sides before closing yourself up in that box.

Offline NS1

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2022, 12:33:35 PM »

I Believe it is Putin and him alone.
No, links, big proof, just really look at what he has
said over last 20 years. Look at how over last 3-4 years
smaller and msaller circle, Staying away from public., more isolated.
Alot of talk of history and former glory, stalin, soviet Union, etc.

I think he believes if he can take Russia back and reclaim some of these
countries, He would be a global feared super power. He thinks he will go down
in History as a great RUssian leader.

WHat is funny, is Russia was already a global leader, with the ability to be a very rich and powerful country.
Instead of going forward, he took the country backwards 40 years in a matter of less than a week.
I suspect he will go down as a failed, crazy tyrant who lost touch with reality.

Regardless of what he does now, hes done, no Country will deal with Russia with Putin as its leader.
SO what does Russia do now?

That's fine, you believe what you believe. I'm not a big links poster either. Most of the links anyone posts is nothing more than fake news folks can find to prop up whatever it is they believe. Literally, one can find anything on the internet to support what they believe or want to believe to be true. What's the point of playtime discussions where links to others opinions and stories? Keep discussions cerebral, one on one and help each other actually think about their positions with reason and logic without screaming at each other while posting useless links.

I think you are wrong. There is something more bothering Putin than going down in history of being just another conqueror from Russia. You said yourself Russia is already a powerful nation and on it's way up. Why would he risk that over dominating his much smaller neighbor? He's already president for life, probably one of the world's richest men. Is it just about power? Or could it be about protecting what he's already gained. Is he a saint? No. He had to know many of the world's powerful governments, media, companies and militaries would turn against him. I see something else afoot we may not even be aware of. Brushing it off as just another madman looking to dominate the world would be a mistake. Look at all sides before closing yourself up in that box.

You could be right, problem is, no one knows what he is thinking.
Based on his actions, seems like even his inner circle is not so inner.
Something is in his head, good bad or otherwise.

But IMO I think he got it wrong this time.
I really don't see a way out for him, no matter what he does now.
WIn, not going to happen, defeat maybe, win no.

His only chance as small as it may be, is to pull out now, take the loss
and maybe he might be ok, but I doubt it and do you see him doing that?

IMO regardless of what happens now Putin is done,
so the question remains, what does Russia do?
There is nothing permanent except change.

Offline Faux Pas

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2022, 08:57:40 PM »


You could be right, problem is, no one knows what he is thinking.
Based on his actions, seems like even his inner circle is not so inner.
Something is in his head, good bad or otherwise.

But IMO I think he got it wrong this time.
I really don't see a way out for him, no matter what he does now.
WIn, not going to happen, defeat maybe, win no.

His only chance as small as it may be, is to pull out now, take the loss
and maybe he might be ok, but I doubt it and do you see him doing that?

IMO regardless of what happens now Putin is done,
so the question remains, what does Russia do?

Take it one further, nobody cares what he is thinking. The worldwide media owned and dictated by a select few has bombarded the world with Putin bad. Governments, companies and organizations are lining up like the whores they are, drunk on cancel culture looking to paint Putin with a Pol Pot brush. Russia is a major player on the world stage militarily and financially. Invading his neighbor looks to me to be something much bigger than his ego. I have to believe that he believes, what he is doing what is right for Russia. Quite likely there is something else below the surface. The bio labs is interesting but IMO wouldn't reach the mark of an invasion.

Putin has the military might to end the conflict at his choosing. The Ukrainian military as valiant as they are, are no match. Personally, I do not see him looking for an escape. He may have calculated wrong as to the resolve of the Ukrainian fighters but I'd wager Putin is going to call the shots and end it when he's ready.

The only way that could be avoided is other countries picking up that fight militarily against the Russians. That scenario is not a good one and will likely lead to a nuclear stand off. Putin has the support of other nuclear countries. Headed for a showdown. He is not a dumb man or a Joe Bidan. Something else is afoot

Offline Contrarian

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2022, 09:16:47 PM »


You could be right, problem is, no one knows what he is thinking.
Based on his actions, seems like even his inner circle is not so inner.
Something is in his head, good bad or otherwise.

But IMO I think he got it wrong this time.
I really don't see a way out for him, no matter what he does now.
WIn, not going to happen, defeat maybe, win no.

His only chance as small as it may be, is to pull out now, take the loss
and maybe he might be ok, but I doubt it and do you see him doing that?

IMO regardless of what happens now Putin is done,
so the question remains, what does Russia do?

Take it one further, nobody cares what he is thinking. The worldwide media owned and dictated by a select few has bombarded the world with Putin bad. Governments, companies and organizations are lining up like the whores they are, drunk on cancel culture looking to paint Putin with a Pol Pot brush. Russia is a major player on the world stage militarily and financially. Invading his neighbor looks to me to be something much bigger than his ego. I have to believe that he believes, what he is doing what is right for Russia. Quite likely there is something else below the surface. The bio labs is interesting but IMO wouldn't reach the mark of an invasion.

Putin has the military might to end the conflict at his choosing. The Ukrainian military as valiant as they are, are no match. Personally, I do not see him looking for an escape. He may have calculated wrong as to the resolve of the Ukrainian fighters but I'd wager Putin is going to call the shots and end it when he's ready.

The only way that could be avoided is other countries picking up that fight militarily against the Russians. That scenario is not a good one and will likely lead to a nuclear stand off. Putin has the support of other nuclear countries. Headed for a showdown. He is not a dumb man or a Joe Bidan. Something else is afoot


With all due respect to you, I simply do not agree that Putin's military is up to par. It seems that something has been way off for much of this campaign and the biggest part of it is the lack of logistical support.

Russian troops are hungry, their vehicles are out of gas or diesel and they did not have proper maps or the ability to communicate with each other.

Many of the Russian troops are young conscripts and out of their depth. I even wonder if someone in Putin's circle deliberately put harm to this invasion? It is the most screwed up invasion I have ever witnessed, from a country which is supposed to be a major power in the World.
I read carefully everything you wrote about doing business with Russians....they will always wait for the moment to rob and destroy you.

Offline Faux Pas

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Re: Switzerland Chooses a Side
« Reply #22 on: March 02, 2022, 09:38:17 PM »

With all due respect to you, I simply do not agree that Putin's military is up to par. It seems that something has been way off for much of this campaign and the biggest part of it is the lack of logistical support.

Russian troops are hungry, their vehicles are out of gas or diesel and they did not have proper maps or the ability to communicate with each other.

Many of the Russian troops are young conscripts and out of their depth. I even wonder if someone in Putin's circle deliberately put harm to this invasion? It is the most screwed up invasion I have ever witnessed, from a country which is supposed to be a major power in the World.

I have no idea why you'd think it wasn't up to par. Is it from those Yahoo and CNN clips you've been posting? Where is it you are getting your information about being hungry and out of gas? Beware of the deceivers. Russia has a large and well trained army. A formidable foe for any military in the world. Ukraine, not so much.

It has certainly been a "different" invasion. It's almost as if Putin is toying with his food. Putin has surgically struck specific targets. There is more to that than we know. Intentionally it appears left communications, roads and bridges open allowing people to leave and move about freely. There is no scorched earth policy, yet. It doesn't appear there is going to be one. I think you are selling Putin much too short. He is definitely a strategist and you are seeing a bumbling clown. Maybe you should stop thinking with your emotions?


 

 

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