Russian Losses

[Bodine]

It's never quite as clear cut as you think B/B, when it comes to what the neutral lads think. You pro Ukraine boys get a real itchy ring piece when facts dont sit with your narrative.

I believe that they never intended to take Kiev by force, given the size of the invading army but I do believe that they expected an easy ride, for whatever reason. Little resistance and a fleeing regime. I also believe that Russia didn't expect NATO to throw the kitchen sink at it, which they quite clearly have.

Russia now know that the build up of Western weapons and training over the years, gave Ukraine a decent chance and they would only have got stronger had Russia waited another few years. Perhaps the Ukrainian regime would have been wise not to attack residents in the Donbas and unsettle Crimea until they were fully locked and loaded with Western weaponry?

It's been a serious miscalculation on the Russian part and if they knew then what they know now, they'd have hit Ukraine much harder in the early days. Replacing the government and controlling the capital from the very start would have saved many lives and a lot of expense and pain over the long run, had they gone in two footed on the 24th.

I had no desire to refute any part of this. Folks can believe what they want to believe. It's been only less than 3 years to be forgetting the events leading to and following Russia's SMO. IIRC, the US military, Mark Miley to be exact, was the one who was spreading fear that it will only take Russia 72 hours for Kiev to fall.. Now, how can a presidential military adviser say such with careless abandon.

Be that as it may, I seriously doubt anyone with an iota of sense can believe any country can employ 130,000 troops trekking on a snowy, muddy single lane of poorly maintained road, with little to no plans for support and reinforcement, can actually invade and capture an entire city with a population of almost 3 million, with a defending army  - free from days and weeks of bombardment.

Doesn't matter if the US or Russia said it - or both.

Well, OKAY, Zelensky actually believed it because he coward deep in a bunker the whole time until PM Bennett delivered a Putin promised he isn't nailing his butt. That's when Ukraine did away with the green screens. But I did qualify "anyone with an iota of sense".

Just another crazy US proxy war where people needlessly die. Ka-Ching!

[andrewfi]

Yeah, the Russians were fairly clear about their intentions. They had a tiny force that needed to complete a load of objectives against a highly trained, well-equipped and more numerous opposition.

The Kiev force was a feint designed to force the Ukraine army to split it's resources. That succeeded. The forces in the east of the country were very successful.

Had Kiev capitulated as the Russian planners hoped, but did not expect, the forces close to Kiev would probably have marched into Kiev. They'd not have fought their way in. But,of course, that's not what happened so they didn't.

[B.B.]

My question is, what was in the building next to the hospital, that made it a target?

You are assuming that (a) the Russians acted on good information, and/or (b) hit what they were aiming at (which could have been a different building altogether.)

Secondly, as per all the other children's hospitals, maternity wards and orphanages the Russians have allegedly targeted, the amount of dead seems to be suspiciously low, for such a massive explosion?

So that there are not "enough" dead people will, I am sure, be of great condolence to the dead and their families.

I eagerly await the Zee fanboys on the board, just shouting Putin bad and Russian war crimes, without any real substance or attempt to answer the above?

Oh, 100% they have committed war crimes during the course of the war.  They helpfully filmed them for us.  My friend Vitalik who was a doctor was killed while riding in an ambulance which was fired up on by the Russians, some of whom have heard of smth called the "Geneva Suggestions."  Firing on ambulances is a no-no.

D. Russian security.

Who, specifically, is going to invade Russia?  If Russia is worried about anyone, it should be the Chinese who admire the Great Big Empty that Russia has out in their neighborhood, some of which used to belong to China - and ask the Taiwanese how China feels about things they think belong to them.

Meanwhile, you rather arrogantly assume that only "Russian security" matters.  What about the Ukrainians?  They have been invaded twice now this century and have been genocided in the past.  But only Russia gets to have "concerns."  An aggressive Russia presents a threat to NATO members, particularly those in the neighborhood, who have also been invaded and occupied by Russia in the past. Indeed, had Russia not been such a shitty neighbor, they might have more friends instead of just the dour Xi and the NoKo fanboy, but that's not the path they chose.

Indeed, if Russia defines its security by having the smallest possible border with NATO, they have failed, epically, in that the drove Finland and Sweden into NATO's arms.  I don't think they saw that coming, probably because they didn't think that the war would last this long or that the West would care. 

They can so long as;

A. It's not western fomented
B. It doesn't threaten Russian security.

and C, if they don't mind being Russia's Beaten Wife from time to time, and have chunks broken off at a whim.

The Ukrainians (and others) seem to be unwilling to do that.

Should Canada or Mexico end up having civil war on your borders, following Russian involvement and US interests are at threat;

Russia could involve itself to the extent that it was able, which we both know would be not very much.  Sure they could dock at Havana and fly some planes into Caracas, but that would be about the extent of it.  In fact, we allow this already. 

The US will get involved militarily. Full stop. End of and what you need to learn is, the street runs both ways. A laborious concept for people believing that they live in the greatest nation on earth.....

First, Canada is a full member of NATO, which means they would be entitled to the full participation of all NATO member, including the United States, in expelling any Russian interference. 

Russia doesn't seem to have one of those with Ukraine that permits an invasion, now, does it?  In fact, Russia has treaties and such dating back to the late 90s with Ukraine recognizing the Ukrainian border which - spoiler alert! - it has since heavily violated, starting the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances and the Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation.  Now, in the past you have relied on the Minsk Agreements, but left out the bit where Russia decided that it is not bound by the terms, which does not make it much of an agreement because it's Russia that tends to get "invade-y."

Meanwhile, back in Ottawa, if Canada were to have a civil war, I would expect it to be rather, well, quite civil and it would consist of Quebec leaving and possibly, but less likely, one or more of the eastern maritime provinces applying for statehood (it is discussed from time to time, but mostly to jangle the nerves of folks in Ottawa.)

Mexico generally has some low-grade stuff going on, but I think anything "civil war-y" got tamped down in Chiapas a while ago.  Could the Russians interfere?  Well they do have quite a bit of history interfering in some countries in the Caribbean, Central and S. America, often via proxy.  The Chinese are the bigger problem at the moment.  As I said, there is some stuff that we allow.

If it plays out how you hope it does.

It is simply a matter of will.  Russia will still only keep what NATO allows it to, but NATO may lack the will to eject them.  What we have learned from this conflict is the vaunted Russian military isn't nearly as bad ass as previously believed.  I would prefer no shooting war bw NATO and Russia, but it may not be able to be avoided.

Chances are, Russia will continue to take land from Ukraine until they're satisfied that a buffer zone exists and the populations within those areas are safe. I believe we all know which Oblasts I'm referring to?

Yes, the "Sudeten Germans" argument.  And, once again, assuming NATO permits it.

What's Ukraine gonna do? Mount another summer offensive to re-take the lands with an even weaker, less abled fighting force? Their best men are already dead and they're struggling to plug the gaps.

Ah yes, and that's why the Russians are in Kiev...oh wait, they aren't?  Hmm. 

I would expect that we will not see either side gaining a military victory, and Russia will continue to bleed out.  Ukraine, too, but Ukraine isn't in NATO. 

Russia won't be giving back anything, that they've fought and died for......much to the frustration of Uncle Sam and his resource stealing parasite friends.

Russia will keep what NATO allows it to keep.  The only resources being stolen are Ukrainian resources stolen by Russia. 

B/B

[rosco]

So that there are not "enough" dead people will, I am sure, be of great condolence to the dead and their families.

10/10 for the spin princess 

Even you know that if 4 Kalibr cruise missiles smashed into a children's hospital, there would be more than 2 deaths...but yea let's keep playing silly buggers!

Ukraine have admitted today that the Kalibr's were flying at deck height and the air defences couldn't rect until the last minute. There's a clip doing the rounds and if you watch the final cruise missile head to target, it appears to have been intercepted horizontally. The hospital building is covered in fragments which could indicate a low level explosion from the air defence system.

But yea......Russia went after the bald kids because Putin is evil 

Oh, 100% they have committed war crimes during the course of the war.

I have zero doubt about that but only one of us is happy to admit that both of them are at it. Knee capping cuffed prisoners, smashing drones into surrendering or injured soldiers, shelling civilians in their homes in Belgorod etc. I think they call it war?

It's all wrong in my book.

Who, specifically, is going to invade Russia?

You really think security is only about preventing invasions? 

Meanwhile, you rather arrogantly assume that only "Russian security" matters.  What about the Ukrainians?

Aaaannnndddd......we're back to that archive homework again B/B. Bro thinks it's black or white and super simple.

Indeed, if Russia defines its security by having the smallest possible border with NATO, they have failed, epically, in that the drove Finland and Sweden into NATO's arms.  I don't think they saw that coming, probably because they didn't think that the war would last this long or that the West would care. 

Can you read a map?

If Russia did nothing, Ukraine turns into NATO and the US bases are literally on their border. If the take the 4 Oblasts with Crimea, throw Belarus into the equation and they have more security and better access to all continents.

Russia could involve itself to the extent that it was able, which we both know would be not very much.  Sure they could dock at Havana and fly some planes into Caracas, but that would be about the extent of it.

This exercise that I suggested wasn't about what was likely or even possible to happen. It was about engaging your brain and having you a least try to understand the world away from your narrow one.

First, Canada is a full member of NATO, which means they would be entitled to the full participation of all NATO member, including the United States, in expelling any Russian interference. 

Whoosh. You again missed the point being made. *It's not real!!

Russia doesn't seem to have one of those with Ukraine that permits an invasion, now, does it?

Spoiler alert!! Ukraine and especially the eastern Oblasts along with Crimea play a rich part in their intertwined history. One which becomes compromised as soon as Yanks start strutting round Kiev overthrowing sitting governments and telling the hand picked puppets where their future lies.

Remember that security discussion we had?

What we have learned from this conflict is the vaunted Russian military isn't nearly as bad ass as previously believed.  I would prefer no shooting war bw NATO and Russia, but it may not be able to be avoided.

What we've all learned from this war is that you can only walk into another country if you flatten the place and kill everyone. Then holding it would be a different story. See Iraq and Afghanistan for more info.

Everyone on earth wants a world war to be avoided but western leaders have created a situation where genuine peace talks wont be held with Russia and Ukraine must win. Viktor Orban was heavily criticised in the West for going to Moscow last week and starting the dialogue.

What a sick world we live in.

Ah yes, and that's why the Russians are in Kiev...oh wait, they aren't?  Hmm. 

And we're back to homework for B/B again. I think Andrew posted something you might be able to learn from, just a few up from this - lucky you!!

Russia will keep what NATO allows it to keep.  The only resources being stolen are Ukrainian resources stolen by Russia. 

B/B

We'll see but Russia is faring okay given what they're fighting against, whilst the West is looking at empty cupboards, huge debt and a few key elections. We're not in this for the long haul so don't kid yourself. This is everything for Russia whilst working folks in the West don't give a shit about Ukraine.

Except from our leaders money making schemes, resources the US can steal and plans to compromise a key rival.

[Texan77]

According to Ukrainian news Ukraine has captured 13 settlements inside Russia. Quote from pro-Russian blogger below.

"We knew that the Ukrainian Armed Forces would go to Kursk Oblast. We knew that they were pulling forces together. We knew everything as usual, the guys from the fields reported it, but the higher-ups did nothing," pro-war blogger Anastasia Kashevarova said on Telegram.

The Callsign OSETIN Telegram channel said: "Columns of equipment are moving across our lands, and the troops and infantry are nowhere to be found...there is no artillery, no tanks, no equipment, and did anyone prepare for this? Only aviation, operators and forward air controllers are working, border guards are also fighting."

Military blogger Ravreba said there is "a complete disregard for the state of war in Moscow."

"It is more convenient for the new Minister of Defense to calculate how much the grandfathers stole than to kick generals who do something only when they are bent over with a whip and an ax," Rabreva wrote.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/putin-breaks-silence-on-ukraine-s-kursk-incursion/ar-AA1ooHQR?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=ASTS&cvid=984ae5cb15d342219178243619dbf9b4&ei=23

[AvHdB]

Yeah, the Russians were fairly clear about their intentions. They had a tiny force that needed to complete a load of objectives against a highly trained, well-equipped and more numerous opposition.

The Kiev force was a feint designed to force the Ukraine army to split it's resources. That succeeded. The forces in the east of the country were very successful.

Had Kiev capitulated as the Russian planners hoped, but did not expect, the forces close to Kiev would probably have marched into Kiev. They'd not have fought their way in. But,of course, that's not what happened so they didn't.

Do you really believe the above or are you a road kill parrot?

[Texan77]

Ksenia Karelina, an American-Russian amateur ballet dancer accused of committing treason against Russia for donating a little more than $50 to a Ukrainian charity in the US, has admitted “guilt” in her case, according to Russia state news agency TASS.

Karelina, 33, is a dual national American and Russian. She was detained in Yekaterinburg earlier this year while she was in the country visiting her grandparents. Recently-released Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich was also arrested on espionage charges while he was visiting Yekaterinburg.

Russian officials accused the dancer of donating $51.80 to a Ukrainian charity while she was in the US. She made the donation the day that Russia invaded Ukraine.

Prosecutors want to jail her for 15 years, accusing her of collecting money for Ukraine to use to purchase tactical military supplies. The organization Karelina donated to — Razom for Ukraine — is based in New York and is a non-profit group that provides non-military aid to Ukraine.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/ksenia-karelina-la-ballerina-who-gave-51-to-ukraine-charity-admits-guilt-in-russian-trial-lawyer-says/ar-AA1ot8kL?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=836a19d5357c48848c9f4e774dbe638a&ei=122

[Texan77]

August 7 Putin is told that The Ukraine offensive has been contained. It appears Ukraine is digging in and has no plans of leaving anytime soon.  Since this video of August 8th Ukraine has gotten quite a bit more land since then. Today's map show Ukraine opening up two more fronts where it is starting new two incursion into Russia. I am sure this is all part of the Russian plan, and the war is going just fine for Russia.  A real interested part of this video is Putin gets a war update about the incursion and the expression on his face as he knows everything he is being told is a lie. Ukraine is saying it has to thank Russian bloggers for claiming Ukraine has suffered far greater losses than it has, and that women and children are on the front line. This was only possible because Russia had almost no forces on the border. 

[Texan77]

Ukraine continues to advance. Map in video show where Ukraine's gains have been for each of the five days. Today was day 900 for the war inside Ukraine and day 5 for the war inside Russia.

[Texan77]

How residents in the occupied territories are making out? Russia send money and corruption takes most of it as many residents are forced to leave their homes.  Work often falls apart after months just to give another contract the same company to do the same poor quality work over again.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/kremlin-s-gray-zone-how-russian-corruption-thrives-in-occupied-ukrainian-territories/ar-AA1oMBdr?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=5f3d5bb1d1894e70bd7ae2ea57b5a27f&ei=9

[Texan77]

After eight days confused Russian Army still not doing well. Ukrainian rate of capturing land is increasing. Yesterday 44 towns and settlements today 78 towns and settlements. You guys do not realize how brilliant this has been. They have cause so much confusion among Russian troops, mess up Russian logistics. For an example they pretended to be Russian sources and called for an evacuation on the same roads Russia was using to being troops and supplies. This caused a traffic jam slowing Russian getting to the front line to where they could take them out when they finally arrived. They pretend on the radio to be attacking a city to the north and Russia blew up their own retreating column of armor and troops that was heading to that city. Many Russians troops do not have drinking water and food because of Ukraine messing up the logistic of Russia from behind the lines. This will be known in history as one of the greatest military maneuvers and will be studies for a long time. Russia is complaining the west designed and organized this. No one in the west is able to do this. this guy does not have all the details but at the end he shows the land Ukraine forces have captured since his report yesterday.

[B.B.]

Yeah, the Russians were fairly clear about their intentions. They had a tiny force that needed to complete a load of objectives against a highly trained, well-equipped and more numerous opposition.

The Kiev force was a feint designed to force the Ukraine army to split it's resources. That succeeded. The forces in the east of the country were very successful.

Had Kiev capitulated as the Russian planners hoped, but did not expect, the forces close to Kiev would probably have marched into Kiev. They'd not have fought their way in. But,of course, that's not what happened so they didn't.

Do you really believe the above or are you a road kill parrot?

Well, don't you know that the Russians cleverly outsmarted the Ukrainians, but didn't win the war, they then claimed that, despite sending a convoy in and attempting to surround Kiev - until they ran out of fuel and later food - winning was never a war aim, and that they totes KNEW that the UA Army was headed to Kursk, but keeping their own country from being invaded was never a war aim, etc.

Getting bled out by the Ukrainians over 2+ years?  Totally a war aim. 

Having their military equipment exposed in war - totally a war aim.

Meanwhile, in Moscow, 2+2 must now equal 5.

B/B

[AvHdB]

Yeah, the Russians were fairly clear about their intentions. They had a tiny force that needed to complete a load of objectives against a highly trained, well-equipped and more numerous opposition.

The Kiev force was a feint designed to force the Ukraine army to split it's resources. That succeeded. The forces in the east of the country were very successful.

Had Kiev capitulated as the Russian planners hoped, but did not expect, the forces close to Kiev would probably have marched into Kiev. They'd not have fought their way in. But,of course, that's not what happened so they didn't.

Do you really believe the above or are you a road kill parrot?

Well, don't you know that the Russians cleverly outsmarted the Ukrainians, but didn't win the war, they then claimed that, despite sending a convoy in and attempting to surround Kiev - until they ran out of fuel and later food - winning was never a war aim, and that they totes KNEW that the UA Army was headed to Kursk, but keeping their own country from being invaded was never a war aim, etc.

Getting bled out by the Ukrainians over 2+ years?  Totally a war aim. 

Having their military equipment exposed in war - totally a war aim.

Meanwhile, in Moscow, 2+2 must now equal 5.

B/B

As I recall they also captured an airfield that they subsequently surrendered (fled) in my vocabulary. There were some annoyed Ukraine first year cadets in the barracks about 2 kilometers away.

[andrewfi]

one can live in exceptional fantasy or one can look at what actually happened. I suggest that posters above look at what actually happened.

While I make no claims of martial expertise, there's also plenty of information out there that without referencing the specifics of the case, make it clear that the points I and other rational people have made are almost certainly correct.

[AvHdB]

one can live in exceptional fantasy or one can look at what actually happened. I suggest that posters above look at what actually happened.

While I make no claims of martial expertise, there's also plenty of information out there that without referencing the specifics of the case, make it clear that the points I and other rational people have made are almost certainly correct.

For simple & small brains I hold to the KISS principle.

They (Russians) came, Russians saw & Russians left.

There is more than enough photographic evidence to sustain this reality.

[Wiz]

August 7 Putin is told that The Ukraine offensive has been contained. It appears Ukraine is digging in and has no plans of leaving anytime soon.  Since this video of August 8th Ukraine has gotten quite a bit more land since then. Today's map show Ukraine opening up two more fronts where it is starting new two incursion into Russia. I am sure this is all part of the Russian plan, and the war is going just fine for Russia.  A real interested part of this video is Putin gets a war update about the incursion and the expression on his face as he knows everything he is being told is a lie. Ukraine is saying it has to thank Russian bloggers for claiming Ukraine has suffered far greater losses than it has, and that women and children are on the front line. This was only possible because Russia had almost no forces on the border. 

[Wiz]

. Quoted wrong person.

Mark is it coincident that the Brics are buying Gold now the Jewish President of the Rothchild family died?

Is it coinsident that the Russian standard of living has improved dramatically
after Putin pushed the Jewish oligarchs out of Russia?

Is it coincident that the war between Russia and ukraine strated when a new Jewish president took ove runing the country?

Is it coincident that after 40+years of Palaistinian indepentence that The President of Israel is killing daily so many Palaistinins and and the jews are killing Iranians?....

Are you aware that the BRICS decided to bring back the Cold as a reserve currency?

Well too many coinidents....... and lets hope it gets better   for the world!

[Manny]

About Kursk. I fail to see the point in the attempted invasion of Russia by Ukraine. What do they hope to achieve? Ukraine claims it is to force Russia to the negotiating table. That is clearly nonsense as Russia has been trying to negotiate for a decade on Donbass.

Most of those blokes will be going home in body bags. Most of those blokes who were sent there must have known it was probably a one-way ticket.

For what? So warmongering retards like Blinken and Boris Johnson can beat their chests from afar? Apparently, Russia has captured/destroyed some British tanks there. What on earth are our tanks doing being used in an attempted invasion of Russia? It's pointless, provocative madness. Now the unelected Boris Johnson is hollering in his newspaper columns about wanting Ukraine to use bunker-busting bombs and other heavy-duty stuff, supplied by the UK, inside Russia.

If they want to start a proper war, it's probably a good way to do it. It looks like they want to push and push Russia until they retaliate properly.

[Markje]

If they want to start a proper war, it's probably a good way to do it. It looks like they want to push and push Russia until they retaliate properly.

A proper war will destroy whole cities.

You can call that evil, but at least you know in advance thats going to be a thing.

Many cities have been bombed in last wars, in 1940-45 , rotterdam, frankfurt, warsaw, belgrade, london and many others were absolutely targeted on purpose. And that was in an era when airplanes were not a novelty. Near the end of the war, the allies were also doing their fair share of civilian bombing, Dresden, Berlin, hiroshima and nagasaki for instance.

Vietnam was also a proper war:
from wikipedia:
The war exacted enormous human cost: estimates of Vietnamese soldiers and civilians killed range from 970,000 to 3 million.

or:
432,093 civilians have died violent deaths as a direct result of the U.S. post-9/11 wars.
An estimated 3.6-3.8 million people have died indirectly in post-9/11 war zones, bringing the total death toll to at least 4.5-4.7 million and counting.


(https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/costs/human/civilians)

[Texan77]

It appears Russia does not care much about the people that live in the Kursh region and Putin just goes about everything as normal. Meanwhile Russia keeps losing more land in the Kursh region and refuses to do much about it. We know Manny every Ukrainian soldier had died three times over and only women and children on left to fight on the front line. The rest of the Ukraine army has already given up and you total cannot see it is just fake propaganda.

[Wiz]

It is pretty obvious that you are a total ignorant and brain dead idiot who works for the American propaganda department for a handful of dollars and have not a clue what really in going on over there.

Do you really believe the crap you are posting will convince members here to change their minds when they know,  who is supporting that Jewish idiot Zelensky?
Also the fact that 1-2 bridges in the Kursk area will make no difference and also few  tanks destroyed. The fact of the matter is simple….. and you
still believe you are talking to ignorant children and post whatever they supply you.

Let’s hope that the unelected Idiot Jew who runs the Ukraine now…will not attack any Atomic power run electricity factories.

Meanwhile educate your self: by reading…who created Israel.

[Texan77]

It is pretty obvious that you are a total ignorant and brain dead idiot who works for the American propaganda department for a handful of dollars and have not a clue what really in going on over there.

Do you really believe the crap you are posting will convince members here to change their minds when they know,  who is supporting that Jewish idiot Zelensky?
Also the fact that 1-2 bridges in the Kursk area will make no difference and also few  tanks destroyed. The fact of the matter is simple….. and you
still believe you are talking to ignorant children and post whatever they supply you.

Let’s hope that the unelected Idiot Jew who runs the Ukraine now…will not attack any Atomic power run electricity factories.

Meanwhile educate your self: by reading…who created Israel.

All the world's problems are caused by the JEWs. You sound just like Hitler. Have you listened to any of his speeches translated? 

[Wiz]

[quote author=Texan77 ..... Do you really believe the crap you are posting will convince members here to change their minds when they know,  who is supporting that Jewish idiot Zelensky?

Also the fact that 1-2 bridges in the Kursk area will make no difference and also few  tanks destroyed. The fact of the matter is simple….. and you
still believe you are talking to ignorant children and post whatever they supply you.

Let’s hope that the unelected Idiot Jew who runs the Ukraine now…will not attack any Atomic power run electricity factories.

Meanwhile educate your self: by reading…who created Israel.

All the world's problems are caused by the JEWs. You sound just like Hitler. Have you listened to any of his speeches translated?

Not my problem that you are uneducated.......It is pretty obvious that you cannot write a sentence of your own.

For your information I had the ""Honour ""    to meet the gentleman in the Video, while I was living and working in Corfu island-Greece and I was not very impressed by him.

It is very clear that you are ignorant regarding the currend Russian leadership and the situation regarding Russia too. Russia is not Vietnam, where you had to escape with a helicopter on the roof...

I was lucky to have the opportunity to visit Ukraine and Russia several times
unlike you!

BTW search this board for a post of mine about 6 Million  jews, if it was not deleted by Manny.

[Texan77]

If you wondering what Ukraine is hoping to do in Russia, then the first 8 minutes and 40 seconds might be a help. This set up a barrier where Russia would no longer be able to shell town and cities in Ukraine along the border. It is the same thing what Russia was trying to do inside Ukraine in the north but failed at. It also moves the front line to rivers where it is easier to defend against future attacks. The hope is it will take a huge effort to dislodge Ukrainian forces from these areas once dug in. The longer they hold the area the more political troublesome it will be for Russian leadership to convince Russians the war is going according to the plan. 

IN past surveys in Russia end up with most people say I support the special military operation. The most recent survey inside Moscow most people said no comment. Something is happening.

[rosco]

There's little doubt that the Ukrainian border expedition, has caused unwanted panic for the Russians and yes, it's got to be a tad embarrassing for the military.

That said, Ukraines actions appear to have been nothing but a media distraction and it hasn't made any difference to the war. Russia definitely won't negotiate peace anytime soon, the Russian gains on the front lines have actually increased since the Kursk road trip, Ukraine can't keep or hold the fields and small settlements they're driving through and they are losing many of their very best soldiers and equipment in doing so.

Western media has been hailing this Ukrainian success story but there is no substance to any of it other than Ukraine putting two fingers up to Russia and crossing a few miles over the border on a road trip.

Now were hearing all sorts of silly statements justifying the incursion and telling why it's turned the war on its head yet it looks like there whole of Donetsk is soon to be Russian and Ukraines best troops and equipment dying in the fields of Kursk.

An independent mili blogger noted that as of Sunday, the Ukrainians in Russia have lost;

- 3460 troops
- 50 tanks
- 25 infantry vehicles
- 45 personel carriers
- 262 fighting vehicles
- 115 motor vehicles
- 5 SAM launchers
- 3 HIMARS
- 870 troops captured

Another great PR campaign fully supported by the pro war western media and to be fair, some of the hard of thinking have clearly fallen for it but the Russian advance goes on whilst Ukraine becomes weaker.