Russian News

[2tallbill]

Putin accuses the West of taking Russia’s ‘red lines’ too lightly
Russian president says Moscow needs serious security guarantees from
the West, accuses NATO of destroying all mechanisms for dialogue.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/11/18/putin-accuses-west-of-taking-russias-red-lines-too-lightly

[2tallbill]

Germany decries Russia's publication of diplomatic notes on Ukraine
Germany and France have accused Russia of flouting diplomatic protocol after
Moscow published confidential correspondence over a proposed meeting on
resolving the conflict in eastern Ukraine.
http://www.dw.com/en/germany-decries-russias-publication-of-diplomatic-notes-on-ukraine/a-59870445

[AvHdB]

It seems Russia is not helping to lower tensions.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-military-reports-debris-generating-event-outer-space-2021-11-15/

[2tallbill]

It seems Russia is not helping to lower tensions.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-military-reports-debris-generating-event-outer-space-2021-11-15/

I scooped you here three days ago 

https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,29635.0.html

[AvHdB]

It seems Russia is not helping to lower tensions.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-military-reports-debris-generating-event-outer-space-2021-11-15/

I scooped you here three days ago 

https://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,29635.0.html

Well I can’t see everything!

[2tallbill]

Russia made proposals that would be required to be met if the Ukraine border
tension was to be reduced.

In the proposals Russia sets out a series of requirements, which require countries that
joined Nato after the fall of the Soviet Union not to deploy troops or weapons in areas
where they could be seen as a threat to Russia. Heavy bombers and warships would
not be allowed in areas outside their national airspace or waters from which they
could launch an attack

That would mean Nato not playing any role at all in any of the three Baltic republics
or Poland. Of course that means no joint exercises or anything stronger than border
police. The Baltics are so small that any troops of any kind would necessitate a threat.

Here is a summary of the proposal
https://mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/rso/nato/1790818/?lang=en

[Wiz]

Russia made proposals that would be required to be met if the Ukraine border
tension was to be reduced.

In the proposals Russia sets out a series of requirements, which require countries that
joined Nato after the fall of the Soviet Union not to deploy troops or weapons in areas
where they could be seen as a threat to Russia. Heavy bombers and warships would
not be allowed in areas outside their national airspace or waters from which they
could launch an attack

That would mean Nato not playing any role at all in any of the three Baltic republics
or Poland. Of course that means no joint exercises or anything stronger than border
police. The Baltics are so small that any troops of any kind would necessitate a threat.

Here is a summary of the proposal
https://mid.ru/ru/foreign_policy/rso/nato/1790818/?lang=en

What is wrong with the proposals?

Have you forgot what happen in Cuba with JFK?

Do we need a Holocaust because USA has lost its exclusive Hegemonic position?

 

[AvHdB]

My guess an independent Ukraine even though economical far smaller than Russia is a far greater threat to the Kremlin’s stability than a couple battalions of NATO troops near the borders of Russia.

If one doubts this look at the efforts Belarus has gone to prevent reform and freedom of choice. Anyways the cat is out of the bag, Vladmir is dreaming or using the wrong drugs.

[2tallbill]

Have you forgot what happen in Cuba with JFK?

The bay of pigs? The missile crisis? Something else? I don't see any correlation.

Have you forgotten lessons learned from Neville Chamberlain?

Do we need a Holocaust because USA has lost its exclusive Hegemonic position?

The USA has many problems our Hegemonic position or lack thereof isn't one of them.
I don't see how the the USA's Hegemonic position could be enhanced or diminished by
events in the Baltic's or Ukraine. It's primarily NATO that is affected. The life or death
of NATO is of very little importance to me. I certainly don't think that the USA should
be paying for it.

I posted the articles and links to the proposals to encourage comment and debate on
topic(s) related to the forum.

Udachi!

Bill

[Contrarian]

Have you forgot what happen in Cuba with JFK?

The bay of pigs? The missile crisis? Something else? I don't see any correlation.

Have you forgotten lessons learned from Neville Chamberlain?

Do we need a Holocaust because USA has lost its exclusive Hegemonic position?

The USA has many problems our Hegemonic position or lack thereof isn't one of them.
I don't see how the the USA's Hegemonic position could be enhanced or diminished by
events in the Baltic's or Ukraine. It's primarily NATO that is affected. The life or death
of NATO is of very little importance to me. I certainly don't think that the USA should
be paying for it.

I posted the articles and links to the proposals to encourage comment and debate on
topic(s) related to the forum.

Udachi!

Bill

You are placing this on NATO but everyone who is paying close attention knows that the hawks in DC think that the USA should not only be involved, they think the USA is the leader of NATO and should tell Europe what to do.

[Wiz]

Have you forgot what happen in Cuba with JFK?

The bay of pigs? The missile crisis? Something else? I don't see any correlation.

Have you forgotten lessons learned from Neville Chamberlain?

Do we need a Holocaust because USA has lost its exclusive Hegemonic position?

The USA has many problems our Hegemonic position or lack thereof isn't one of them.
I don't see how the the USA's Hegemonic position could be enhanced or diminished by
events in the Baltic's or Ukraine. It's primarily NATO that is affected. The life or death
of NATO is of very little importance to me. I certainly don't think that the USA should
be paying for it.

I posted the articles and links to the proposals to encourage comment and debate on
topic(s) related to the forum.

Udachi!

Bill

Billy

When all above episodes you mentioned were taking place,  I guess you were wearing shorts and dreaming about beautiful Foreign ladies.......to go on holidays...... but I was slighter ahead of you and I remember all the noises on TV and radio  Speeches on the UN and the battles of wills between JFK and  Nikita Khrushchev Please refresh your memory by reading: The Cuban Missile Crisis  At that time JFK won the battle of wills from  Nikita Khrushchev, thanks to the information received from the French agent in Cuba, under the name "Papylon"  and after an agreement between the Leaders all Russian rockets returned back to Russia.and USA  imposed sanctions to Cuba, which are still in operation! Why you try hiding behind your finger?

President John F. Kennedy  had a good taste in women.... like you ....... 

I am sure you do understand the Correlation very well between the above CUBA example and also the current actions of the Ex-Hegemon Nation using it's NATO creation and also it's allies....supporting the US provocative actions in Ukraine, the under belly of the Russian state.

Putin it's not Nikita Khrushchev and many time has made fools of the US superiority especially in Crimea.

Bear in mind that all NATO and USA boats in the Black see are sitting ducks for Russia.....

Good luck my friend.... 2tallbilly and prepare your self for what is coming next if USA push the sanctions against Russia and China on the SWIFT system,

 

[AvHdB]

Four notes;

The Soviets had to remove there missiles from Cuba.

The Americans had to remove there missiles from Turkey.

I suspect warships from America or Western Europe are NOT sitting ducks when on the Black Sea.

JFK had Marilyn M. And B. Clinton had Monica L.

[AvHdB]

The sanctions predate by approximately 11 months the missile crisis.

Economic with the truth yet again Wiz?

Worth noting the history and time line of the crises is complicated, the link Wiz posted up thread though gives good background.

[Contrarian]

Four notes;

The Soviets had to remove their missiles from Cuba.

The Americans had to remove their missiles from Turkey.

I suspect warships from America or Western Europe are NOT sitting ducks when on the Black Sea.

JFK had Marilyn M. And B. Clinton had Monica L.

Beg to differ however it seems to me that Russia is prudent and they really don't want to start WWIII so why would they sink one of our ships?

Doesn't really make sense that they would do that therefore it is more or less a moot point.

I would also like to mention that JFK had a lot better taste than Bill Clinton. 

[AvHdB]

Four notes;

The Soviets had to remove their missiles from Cuba.

The Americans had to remove their missiles from Turkey.

I suspect warships from America or Western Europe are NOT sitting ducks when on the Black Sea.

JFK had Marilyn M. And B. Clinton had Monica L.

Beg to differ however it seems to me that Russia is prudent and they really don't want to start WWIII so why would they sink one of our ships?

Doesn't really make sense that they would do that therefore it is more or less a moot point.

I would also like to mention that JFK had a lot better taste than Bill Clinton. 

Yes I agree on the points that you make above. The American vessels largely can defend themselves. My guess is that you are going to see this “dance” continue. It gives the pundits something to write about.

Marilyn was a hottie and Monica was as attractive as a brick and just about as smart.

[AvHdB]

OMG how do people come up with this?

[2tallbill]

Putin Warns Biden of ‘Complete Rupture’ of U.S.-Russia Relationship Over Ukraine
https://dnyuz.com/2021/12/30/putin-warns-biden-of-complete-rupture-of-u-s-russia-relationship-over-ukraine/

[AvHdB]

Why do you persist in lying and posting bull shitj?

I could post the entire article from Jane’s but what is the point?

The below is from Wikipedia. It should once again prove what a sack of shit in a silk socking you are.
 
On 24 February 2012, Donald Cook was awarded the 2011 Battle Efficiency "E" award.[5] On 9 April 2014, U.S. military officials confirmed the deployment of Donald Cook to the Black Sea,[6] shortly after Russia's annexation of Crimea and amid the pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine. The U.S. Department of Defense's official statement said that the vessel's mission was "to reassure NATO allies and Black Sea partners of America’s commitment to strengthen and improve interoperability while working towards mutual goals in the region".[7] On 10 April 2014, the warship was reported to have entered the Black Sea.[citationtire  needed] On 12 April 2014, an unarmed Russian Su-24 "Fencer" fighter jet made twelve close-range passes of Donald Cook during a patrol of the western Black Sea.[8][9] According to an allegation by a Pentagon spokesman, "The aircraft did not respond to multiple queries and warnings from Donald Cook, and the event ended without incident after approximately 90 minutes." It was further stated that Donald Cook is more than capable of defending herself against a pair of Su-24s. In 2014, Russia's state-run news media outlets ran a series of reports that falsely asserted that during that incident the Su-24, equipped with the Khibiny electronic warfare system, had disabled the ship's Aegis combat systems. The misinformation was later picked up by the British tabloid The Sun and by Fox News, and later reported as Russian propaganda by The New York Times.

Further do not manipulate my quotes to fulfill your hate and repugnant views.

[andrewfi]

Whether or not the Donald Cook's electronic systems were disrupted is no longer really relevant.

There is clear evidence that the Russians, and not just the Russians, do have the capability to exert control over weapon systems.

I am ambivalent on the veracity of the Cook story, however I am alive to the idea that a very strong and consistent denial of the story is essential to the United States. If it were true then a no effort spared process of creating a countervailing narrative would have to be created at the same time as urgent work was carried out to reduce the potential opportunity for future similar incidents. There's no link to a public source carrying a denial that could be trusted.

IMHO the strongest reason to think the story is either completely or partially untrue is that it makes little strategic sense to give away knowledge of this new capability when other means of 'dissuading' the Donald Cook from proceeding existed.

[Contrarian]

Whether or not the Donald Cook's electronic systems were disrupted is no longer really relevant.

There is clear evidence that the Russians, and not just the Russians, do have the capability to exert control over weapon systems.

I am ambivalent on the veracity of the Cook story, however I am alive to the idea that a very strong and consistent denial of the story is essential to the United States. If it were true then a no effort spared process of creating a countervailing narrative would have to be created at the same time as urgent work was carried out to reduce the potential opportunity for future similar incidents. There's no link to a public source carrying a denial that could be trusted.

IMHO the strongest reason to think the story is either completely or partially untrue is that it makes little strategic sense to give away knowledge of this new capability when other means of 'dissuading' the Donald Cook from proceeding existed.

Yes, like a torpedo from one of Russia's many submarines in the region. 

[AvHdB]

Whether or not the Donald Cook's electronic systems were disrupted is no longer really relevant.

There is clear evidence that the Russians, and not just the Russians, do have the capability to exert control over weapon systems.

I am ambivalent on the veracity of the Cook story, however I am alive to the idea that a very strong and consistent denial of the story is essential to the United States. If it were true then a no effort spared process of creating a countervailing narrative would have to be created at the same time as urgent work was carried out to reduce the potential opportunity for future similar incidents. There's no link to a public source carrying a denial that could be trusted.

IMHO the strongest reason to think the story is either completely or partially untrue is that it makes little strategic sense to give away knowledge of this new capability when other means of 'dissuading' the Donald Cook from proceeding existed.

Yes, like a torpedo from one of Russia's many submarines in the region. 

While I am certain that Russia and for that matter other nations have submarines in the Black Sea. The vessels are vulnerable because of the nature of the Black Sea, it is rather shallow, unless a sub can get under a thermocline (temparture difference) they are open to exposure and attack.

[AvHdB]

While I am certain that Russia and for that matter other nations have submarines in the Black Sea. The vessels are vulnerable because of the nature of the Black Sea, it is rather shallow, unless a sub can get under a thermocline (temparture difference) they are open to exposure and attack.

In fact my comment is not correct. There are parts of the Black Sea that are over 2,000 meters in depth. Deep enough for a submarine to lurk and evade.

Cuffy can share his knowledge and insight if he so wishes.

[Contrarian]

While I am certain that Russia and for that matter other nations have submarines in the Black Sea. The vessels are vulnerable because of the nature of the Black Sea, it is rather shallow, unless a sub can get under a thermocline (temparture difference) they are open to exposure and attack.

In fact my comment is not correct. There are parts of the Black Sea that are over 2,000 meters in depth. Deep enough for a submarine to lurk and evade.

Cuffy can share his knowledge and insight if he so wishes.

Like I wrote previously, US and other NATO ships are sitting ducks in the Black Sea, should hostilities break out.

Let's hope they don't. In fact let's hope that upcoming talks are successful such that both sides get something which appeases them and keeps the USA and Russia at peace. 

[2tallbill]

Moscow warns Finland and Sweden against joining Nato amid rising tensions
https://eutoday.net/news/security-defence/2021/moscow-warns-finland-and-sweden-against-joining-nato-amid-rising-tensions


Finland says it could join NATO despite pressure from Russia as tensions grow
over possible invasion of Ukraine
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10365011/Finland-says-join-NATO-despite-pressure-Russia.html

[2tallbill]

Russian Federation President Putin might be receiving a strongly worded letter
from Biden if he doesn't start flying straight regarding Ukraine. That is just one
of the decisive responses that the US president has in his arsenal as a disincentive
for Russia invading Ukraine.

Biden tells Ukrainian president US 'will respond decisively if Russia further invades'
https://www.wfsb.com/news/biden-tells-ukrainian-president-us-will-respond-decisively-if-russia-further-invades/article_a1c4ff43-0822-56cc-9db2-0fd451d2cc75.html?block_id=1025486