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Author Topic: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements  (Read 833 times)

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Offline Manny

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US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« on: August 30, 2020, 11:37:53 PM »
Your Uncle Sam says never forget him and he wants an Easter card stuffed with cash every 15 April. Your nephew facta also wants some attention. Probably more relatives will also appear. Stay in touch.

If he's working as a teacher of some kind he won't be needing to support the USAian national debt.

American passport holders are taxed on their worldwide income irrespective of country of residence as I recall. The only way to escape the IRS is to renounce citizenship. And they charge you to do that too.
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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2020, 12:10:18 AM »
Many Americans I knew who worked in Russia took cash under the table or didn't declare all their earnings.  Hard to trace if it goes into a Russian bank account. I am sure most don't pay the full taxes they should.  This happens in Asia too.

Offline Omega1982

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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2020, 12:54:21 AM »
You're absolutely correct Manny.  The United States and the east African nation of Eritrea are the only two countries in the world that tax their citizens regardless of where they live.  But unlike Eritrea, the US enforces it.  There is an exception though but you still must file.  Also foreign bank accounts must be disclosed and there's paperwork for that too.  Actually due to Facta reporting regulations, many foreign banks routinely turn away American clients.  Welcome to the land of the free. 


Offline msmoby

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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2020, 01:05:07 AM »


American passport holders are taxed on their worldwide income irrespective of country of residence as I recall. The only way to escape the IRS is to renounce citizenship. And they charge you to do that too.

You are charged nearly £400 ( $600) to renounce UK citizenship...  One has to declare one has a Bank account in third nation, if Russian
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Online Danchik

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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2020, 01:17:25 AM »
He just has to file his return. I didn't file for 10 years and ended up paying less than $3K when it was all said and done, mostly for late fees (they (IRS) only found me because of my mortgage). With technology today you can easily file, sign and send your return from the comforts of home in another country.

The exemption is over $100K for expats, so not a problem. Living in Ukraine is dirt cheap compared to the US, especially outside of Kiev.

Opening a bank account shouldn't be a problem for an American and the paperwork is basic these days, so no worry there.

JAD, unless you have a good working knowledge of Russian I doubt you'll be able to do anything else but teach English despite your degrees. At least until you get a good lay of the land.

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Offline Omega1982

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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2020, 01:46:41 AM »
Opening a bank account is not easy. Google facta

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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2020, 03:00:39 AM »
I have an account, should I google it?

Obviously, you don't put or transfer large amounts of cash into it.
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Online andrewfi

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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2020, 03:15:14 AM »
Your Uncle Sam says never forget him and he wants an Easter card stuffed with cash every 15 April. Your nephew facta also wants some attention. Probably more relatives will also appear. Stay in touch.

If he's working as a teacher of some kind he won't be needing to support the USAian national debt.

American passport holders are taxed on their worldwide income irrespective of country of residence as I recall. The only way to escape the IRS is to renounce citizenship. And they charge you to do that too.

Yes but the limit at which one must pay that tax is quite high. There ain't no Ukrainian 'professor' going to cross that line. I think danchik said its $100k.
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Offline Omega1982

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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2020, 03:46:10 AM »
Dan that's not what the experts say. Do you know who Andrew Henderson is?

Offline d672

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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2020, 04:41:17 AM »
 Lol, you obviously don't know who Danchik is Omega, he's an American expat who's lived in Russia for years. You're getting first hand information here, I'd say he probably knows what he is talking about  :)

Offline Omega1982

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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2020, 05:28:04 AM »
Lol, you obviously don't know who Danchik is Omega, he's an American expat who's lived in Russia for years. You're getting first hand information here, I'd say he probably knows what he is talking about  :)

Yes d he's an expert in all topics

There are laws Americans must follow. It's well documented information. All accounts must be reported and banks are forced by the us government to comply otherwise they get sanctioned.

It seems like I'm talking Chinese. This is basic tax law. There's nothing to argue. I did not write the law.

If you guys would look it up instead of spitting so much rubbish

Offline Omega1982

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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2020, 05:36:01 AM »
The Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) is a 2010 United States federal law requiring all non-U.S. foreign financial institutions (FFIs) to search their records for customers with indicia of a connection to the U.S., including indications in records of birth or prior residency in the U.S., or the like, and to report the assets and identities of such persons to the U.S. Department of the Treasury.[1] FATCA also requires such persons to report their non-U.S. financial assets annually to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) on form 8938, which is in addition to the older and further redundant requirement to report them annually to the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) on form 114 (also known as 'FBAR').[2] Like U.S. income tax law, FATCA applies to U.S. residents and also to U.S. citizens and green card holders residing in other countries.

Online andrewfi

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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2020, 08:28:24 AM »
Filling out a tax return, where mandated, is not the same as needing to pay tax. I'd suggest that most USAians living abroad have no tax liability for earnings outside of the United States.

FATCA is an obtrusive piece if legislation that makes the lives of emigree USAians more tough than it needs to be. Again, individuals living outside of the United States only complete a return if they have assets outside the USA with a value of $200k or more.

So, for most emigree USAians FATCA and income reporting is a non-issue.
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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2020, 09:35:12 AM »
Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) on form 114 (also known as 'FBAR').[2] Like U.S. income tax law, FATCA applies to U.S. residents and also to U.S. citizens and green card holders residing in other countries.
And FBAR is exactly right. As andrew correctly noted.

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Online Danchik

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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2020, 09:40:31 AM »
Things change, everywhere. Yes, FACTA does play a role.

The main thing is they want to know where the income is coming from and how much. If you have a boatload of money it could become an issue. A few thousand isn't going to be a problem nor send any flags to the American government.

It's mostly to track money launderers, etc., not small time people like me and JAD.

Also, just FYI to JAD, I wouldn't be so quick to open an account. First, you just need to settled into a place of residence and establish yourself. Having a bank account isn't a must until you're fully established as a legal resident be it temporary or permanent.

If you do find work, they'll probably pay you in cash. Eventually, you can open an account, but at first I would use credit cards (yes, no debit cards) and cash until you have a better feel for the land you're living in.

If you do open an account, look for online institutions like Tinkoff (which I use) who simplify the process.

Since you're already there, I hope you brought at least $3-5K with you. If not, you should be able to get hold of some USD.

To Omega, I just passed my 16th anniversary living in Moscow 2 weeks ago and I just opened an account 8 months ago just to give you an idea. I usually don't have more than 300K rubles in it at any time for a number of reasons, FACTA being one of them.

I closed an account back in 2010 because in reality the bank didn't want to deal with the paperwork involve for such a small account. I could have left it open, but it just made more sense to close it all things considered.

I could have opened another account years ago, but again, the paperwork involved was a PITA for both the applicant and, more importantly, the bank. To be honest, most banks don't want to deal with it because it's a hassle for them, not because you can't open an account, especially if you're depositing trivial money.

FACTA is mostly there for big money accounts (of course it's for all accounts, but you think they worry about accounts under $10K, think about they money you can bring in and take out of Ukraine/Russia as an idea of what they're looking for).

I filled out an extra form provided by the bank to notify the US government that yes, I do have an account here and because of the law for Americans. Simple.

This about sums it up

So, for most emigree USAians FATCA and income reporting is a non-issue.

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Offline Steveboy

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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2020, 10:10:01 AM »
Lol, you obviously don't know who Danchik is Omega, he's an American expat who's lived in Russia for years. You're getting first hand information here, I'd say he probably knows what he is talking about  :)

Yes d he's an expert in all topics

There are laws Americans must follow. It's well documented information. All accounts must be reported and banks are forced by the us government to comply otherwise they get sanctioned.

It seems like I'm talking Chinese. This is basic tax law. There's nothing to argue. I did not write the law.

If you guys would look it up instead of spitting so much rubbish

Yeah but if you go through life working about following the rules and doing this and that, you will never do anything except worry so much you will just be stuck in an arm chair until its time to move to the nursing home..

I know Americans who don't give a fig for any of that stuff... unless your getting millions in who even needs to worry about such trivial stuff.. Find a Russian wife stick the money in her account and say your working for charity.. :laugh:


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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2020, 10:21:54 AM »
Find a Russian wife stick the money in her account and say your working for charity.. :laugh:

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Offline Omega1982

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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2020, 11:43:03 PM »
Filling out a tax return, where mandated, is not the same as needing to pay tax. I'd suggest that most USAians living abroad have no tax liability for earnings outside of the United States.

FATCA is an obtrusive piece if legislation that makes the lives of emigree USAians more tough than it needs to be. Again, individuals living outside of the United States only complete a return if they have assets outside the USA with a value of $200k or more.

So, for most emigree USAians FATCA and income reporting is a non-issue.

Andrew you're incorrect in several things.  First, any amount held by an American overseas over $10,000 must be reported.  Not 200k, its 10k.  And that includes joint accounts with a foreign spouse.  So the money might not even be yours it can belong to your spouse. 

Second I actually travel a lot.  I visited at least five new countries last year. 

And the reason I did not relocate to Spain earlier this year was because the job offer I received was quite low pay.  It's not because of paperwork its because of salary. 

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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2020, 12:43:42 AM »
Omega you need to learn about offshore accounts and how to hide your money better.

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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2020, 01:42:43 AM »
Again, individuals living outside of the United States only complete a return if they have assets outside the USA with a value of $200k or more.

So, for most emigree USAians FATCA and income reporting is a non-issue.

As others have noted you are wrong. PLEASE don't come up with screeds of on-line proof, evidence or other BS postings. Just ask an American tax advisor to US individuals abroad.
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Offline Steveboy

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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2020, 05:02:32 AM »
Filling out a tax return, where mandated, is not the same as needing to pay tax. I'd suggest that most USAians living abroad have no tax liability for earnings outside of the United States.

FATCA is an obtrusive piece if legislation that makes the lives of emigree USAians more tough than it needs to be. Again, individuals living outside of the United States only complete a return if they have assets outside the USA with a value of $200k or more.

So, for most emigree USAians FATCA and income reporting is a non-issue.

Andrew you're incorrect in several things.  First, any amount held by an American overseas over $10,000 must be reported.  Not 200k, its 10k.  And that includes joint accounts with a foreign spouse.  So the money might not even be yours it can belong to your spouse. 

Second I actually travel a lot.  I visited at least five new countries last year. 

And the reason I did not relocate to Spain earlier this year was because the job offer I received was quite low pay.  It's not because of paperwork its because of salary.

It's not because of paperwork its because of salary. . But that is pretty normal to take a small  salary when you relocate.. if your not willing to do this most people will never leave their home town.. you cant expect to leave your home country straight into a job with a big salary.. of course lots do.. but not many.. if you really want to do something in life the salary should not be so important.. that is easy to fix..

My salary when I moved to Russia was $100.00 a week.. I know several people who had the same sort of thing.. you just get your feet under the table and sort it out..

As for how much money you can have and so on.. well I don't see how that even comes into the equation really..

It is like me wanting to climb Mount Everest but never actually doing it because im worried about the health aspect of the climb so im waiting for a hospital to be built at camp 3 25,000 feet up.. ;D


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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2020, 06:32:18 AM »
Omega, knives to gunfights matey!

You're thinking of the reporting requirements for somebody like you - a tourist, United States citizen, resident in the USA.

The rules are not the same for USAians resident away from the United States.

This is stuff I know, but you can easily check for yourself. Google is your friend.
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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2020, 06:38:18 AM »
Omega, knives to gunfights matey!

You're probably thinking of the reporting requirements for somebody like you - a tourist, United States citizen, resident in the USA.

The rules are not the same for USAians resident away from the United States.

The number you mention is probably the level required under FBAR, that's not FATCA referred to above.

This is stuff I know, but you can easily check for yourself. Google is your friend.

Here's a quickie to get you started albeit relating to 2018: https://thunfinancial.com/home/american-expat-financial-advice-research-articles/investing-financial-planning-american-expats-living-abroad/2010-fatca-legislation-changes-the-playing-field-for-americans-abroad/?gclid=CjwKCAjw4rf6BRAvEiwAn2Q76qbJlEsJh57EAPp8vtGdd_5s30K9P0aMzXPHd5F4GC6Z0nQpifWEVxoCYNMQAvD_BwE
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Re: US Citizens Overseas Taxation & Reporting Requirements
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2020, 03:41:28 AM »
Omega, knives to gunfights matey!

You're probably thinking of the reporting requirements for somebody like you - a tourist, United States citizen, resident in the USA.

The rules are not the same for USAians resident away from the United States.

The number you mention is probably the level required under FBAR, that's not FATCA referred to above.

This is stuff I know, but you can easily check for yourself. Google is your friend.

Here's a quickie to get you started albeit relating to 2018: https://thunfinancial.com/home/american-expat-financial-advice-research-articles/investing-financial-planning-american-expats-living-abroad/2010-fatca-legislation-changes-the-playing-field-for-americans-abroad/?gclid=CjwKCAjw4rf6BRAvEiwAn2Q76qbJlEsJh57EAPp8vtGdd_5s30K9P0aMzXPHd5F4GC6Z0nQpifWEVxoCYNMQAvD_BwE

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