I'm 46 and don't know what to do.

[Ward_Cleaver]

Once upon a time (in about 2006 recently divorced and in my early 30's) I dreamed of finding and marrying a beautiful and loving Russian woman and creating a wonderful family with her.  Through the magic of the internet, I found a forum of older men who knew a lot more about this than me.  I remember there was a block named Manny from across the pond and someone named Gorky Guy who looked like a crocodile and encouraged men to stay home and f*ck sheep as an alternative to pursuing Russian women.    Anyway, shortly after this my life went down the toilet and it took years for me to get myself back into a position where I could pursue a Russian woman.

So in 2012 (now in my late 30's) I decided to take a trip to Ukraine and see what all the fuss was about.  I have a GREAT time.  I didn't really do the "tour" or MOB thing but rather just met people and tried to learn about how people lived in this part of the world.  I learned a lot.  I met with young attractive women who couldn't get over the fact that I was young and attractive and interested in a foreign bride.  I guess it went against the stereotype?  I met with married couples who would introduce me to their single friends.  I found a fencing studio in the area and trained with the students there.  I met with guys and talked to them about their work, dating experiences, and ideas about life.  I was a guest speaker at a high school and talked to the students about living in the United States.  I rode the marshrutka and I shopped in the street markets.  I enjoyed the challenge of finding all the ingredients I would need to make things I normally prepare at home.  I spent a day with a young woman with genetic deformities from Chernobyl who was confined to a wheel chair.  I had breakfast with a beautiful blonde who convinced me to blow off a date with another woman later that day who I had dated the night before.  I spent the entire day with this beautiful blonde bicycling around an island.  We later had dinner at a restaurant where I ate raw horse meat and later bungee jumped off of a bridge with her.  I met with a group of young people who were having a Alice in Wonderland community party for local artists.  I "married" a girl I met there in a "very serious ceremony" that was part of the activities.  I saw mothers with their children at the park.  I saw the broken streets and sidewalks.  I saw young people party in these streets at night and I saw babuska cleaning up after them the next morning.  I met with a friend of a friend who told me about her experience with the MOB industry.  She was filling in for a friend on holiday and pretended to be the friend on holiday.  She felt nervous and guilty about doing this and finally told the man she was conversing with that he was being scammed.  She tried to explain to him that she was not even the same girl he had been communicating with previously.  She told me that he was so delusional that he refused to believe her.  I saw old American men try to flirt with young attractive women and I saw how these women were kind to them but never considered them seriously.  I saw and learned a lot.

It was amazing but by the end of my experience I got the impression that the MOB industry was an illusion.  Shortly after I returned home I discovered MGTOW and concluded that women (from every part of the earth) are an illusion.  I decided that it was best for me to focus more on me and live my life to the fullest without regard to women.  Rather than putting time and money into women I decided to purchase a "fixer upper" home and enjoy putting it together.  This would be a home for ME to enjoy building and living in, not a home for a future family.  I had previously enjoyed learning Russian so I decided to take a Russian language class at the local community college.  This would be for my own enjoyment and personal development, not so that I could pursue a Russian woman.

But I decided to create an account on Elena's Models and enjoy talking with women anyway.  You never know, right?  I didn't really expect anything to come of it.  But then, one morning, I woke up to a message from Ms. Novosibirsk.  I won't talk about her here because I think I'm going to go back to finishing that story.  Sorry to spoil the ending of that thread but I ended up marrying her in 2015 and divorcing in 2019.  I went against everything I discovered from MGTOW and went all 100% in on doing my best to build a future and a family with this women.  Only to be crushed a few years later when it didn't work out.

Which brings me to the point of this post.  What am I going to do with the rest of my life.  I've been in a real slump for over a year now since the divorce (and the coronavirus shutdown).  My daughters live with me full time and are 17 and 19 years old.  The youngest is in her senior year of high school.  To be 100% honest, I think I would really like to find a good woman who desires and is young enough to have a family.  But this seems foolish to me now.  I really feel like I should just go back to where I was in 2012 when I discovered MGTOW but after trying so hard with Ms. Novosibirsk and raising my daughters as a single dad through their teenage years living seem rather pointless without having someone to share it with.

So what do you think?  I've got the rest of my life to do whatever I want.  I've considered going back to school and working on a Ph.D.  I've considered quitting my job and going to live in Russia.  I've accepted a part time job as a ski instructor this winter that I am REALLY looking forward to.  I've got a French girlfriend with two adorable children.  The sex is AMAZING but I don't see it going anywhere.  I was going to start a fencing school this year but the corona virus has kept me from doing that.  I'm doing the Gambler 500 again this fall.  I've got exciting projects I am doing at my work.  This is all "fine and dandy" but life just feels empty and meaningless after loosing Ms. Novosibirsk. 

[Texan77]

First I am sorry your relationship did not work out.

When people lose a relationship they often get a hormone drop and which causes them to become depressed. You most likely will need a little more time before you are able to make the best decision what is best for you. It is important that you do not make the same mistake a second time. This does not have anything to do with which country you wife came from or the country your new love. But if you do not fix what happened to the last relationship you will likely have the same problem again. It is never just her fault because we men selected our choice of a love. So it is our personality and who we selected that causes the failure. 

I am sure you know all of this but maybe you need to hear if from someone else for it to really help.

I hope it help and I hope you the best. 

[AvHdB]

Your honesty and forthrightness is admirable!

The question is interesting, my guess is what are your goals? Do you want malenkiy Wards under your foot and needing a diaper change?

Some who have posted want nothing more than something to plug into and iron there shirts. Both can be obtained cheaper and with less drama locally.

Make a five, ten and 20 year plan and work towards those goals or dreams.

[BillyB]

So what do you think?  I've got the rest of my life to do whatever I want.  I've considered going back to school and working on a Ph.D.  I've considered quitting my job and going to live in Russia.  I've accepted a part time job as a ski instructor this winter that I am REALLY looking forward to.  I've got a French girlfriend with two adorable children.  The sex is AMAZING but I don't see it going anywhere.  I was going to start a fencing school this year but the corona virus has kept me from doing that.  I'm doing the Gambler 500 again this fall.  I've got exciting projects I am doing at my work.  This is all "fine and dandy" but life just feels empty and meaningless after loosing Ms. Novosibirsk. 

Some of the things you propose are what 20 something year olds are doing. At 46 yo, you should be accomplished. Not knowing what you want to do in life is not attractive to quality women. Your life became empty after losing Ms. Novosibirsk? That meant there wasn't much more to your life other than Ms. Novosibirsk and it probably turned her off. Some man out there knows how to keep a woman like that happy. Become that man so you can attract another quality woman and keep her.

[cufflinks]

I find this Gents channel informative and upbeat he is anti MOB and just wrapped a webinar  regarding UA RU culture and filtering insincere ladies and scammers... He is a former lawyer and now basically a lifestyle coach... HTH

[Lord of the Dance]

It was amazing but by the end of my experience I got the impression that the MOB industry was an illusion.  Shortly after I returned home I discovered MGTOW and concluded that women (from every part of the earth) are an illusion.

I've come to understand the acronym MOB to stand for "mail-order bride," is this correct? I can only assume that MGTOW is another acronym but I don't know what it stands for... can you share the term's expansion?

I've been interested in this endeavor for about a decade now (beginning with the purchase of Manny's Bride Guide in 2010) but I've only been earnest in my consideration for the last three years. In this span of time, I've come to a couple of conclusions that make sense to me personally (certainly not to many of the members here though). I think the idea of meeting women over the internet is a bad one... better to just meet them in person. Beyond that, I think traveling to a foreign land specifically to meet / marry a woman is also a bad idea. When I begin spending time in a foreign land, it'll be primarily to conduct business. My search for a suitable mate will run concurrent with these dealings.

A ski instructor / fencing instructor both sound like enjoyable, rewarding "businesses." Just a thought.

[Manny]

I've come to understand the acronym MOB to stand for "mail-order bride," is this correct? I can only assume that MGTOW is another acronym but I don't know what it stands for... can you share the term's expansion?

I wondered that too, and Google tells me >>this<<.

[msmoby]

I find this Gents channel informative and upbeat he is anti MOB and just wrapped a webinar  regarding UA RU culture and filtering insincere ladies and scammers... He is a former lawyer and now basically a lifestyle coach... HTH

AGAIN, with the clueless Conor ?

1/ He posts CRAP about life in Ukraine

2/ He's posts bollox about finding a FSU W

3/ He'll happily relieve you of several thousand dollars for info you'll find for free, here ..

[Steveboy]

Once upon a time (in about 2006 recently divorced and in my early 30's) I dreamed of finding and marrying a beautiful and loving Russian woman and creating a wonderful family with her.  Through the magic of the internet, I found a forum of older men who knew a lot more about this than me.  I remember there was a block named Manny from across the pond and someone named Gorky Guy who looked like a crocodile and encouraged men to stay home and f*ck sheep as an alternative to pursuing Russian women.    Anyway, shortly after this my life went down the toilet and it took years for me to get myself back into a position where I could pursue a Russian woman.

So in 2012 (now in my late 30's) I decided to take a trip to Ukraine and see what all the fuss was about.  I have a GREAT time.  I didn't really do the "tour" or MOB thing but rather just met people and tried to learn about how people lived in this part of the world.  I learned a lot.  I met with young attractive women who couldn't get over the fact that I was young and attractive and interested in a foreign bride.  I guess it went against the stereotype?  I met with married couples who would introduce me to their single friends.  I found a fencing studio in the area and trained with the students there.  I met with guys and talked to them about their work, dating experiences, and ideas about life.  I was a guest speaker at a high school and talked to the students about living in the United States.  I rode the marshrutka and I shopped in the street markets.  I enjoyed the challenge of finding all the ingredients I would need to make things I normally prepare at home.  I spent a day with a young woman with genetic deformities from Chernobyl who was confined to a wheel chair.  I had breakfast with a beautiful blonde who convinced me to blow off a date with another woman later that day who I had dated the night before.  I spent the entire day with this beautiful blonde bicycling around an island.  We later had dinner at a restaurant where I ate raw horse meat and later bungee jumped off of a bridge with her.  I met with a group of young people who were having a Alice in Wonderland community party for local artists.  I "married" a girl I met there in a "very serious ceremony" that was part of the activities.  I saw mothers with their children at the park.  I saw the broken streets and sidewalks.  I saw young people party in these streets at night and I saw babuska cleaning up after them the next morning.  I met with a friend of a friend who told me about her experience with the MOB industry.  She was filling in for a friend on holiday and pretended to be the friend on holiday.  She felt nervous and guilty about doing this and finally told the man she was conversing with that he was being scammed.  She tried to explain to him that she was not even the same girl he had been communicating with previously.  She told me that he was so delusional that he refused to believe her.  I saw old American men try to flirt with young attractive women and I saw how these women were kind to them but never considered them seriously.  I saw and learned a lot.

It was amazing but by the end of my experience I got the impression that the MOB industry was an illusion.  Shortly after I returned home I discovered MGTOW and concluded that women (from every part of the earth) are an illusion.  I decided that it was best for me to focus more on me and live my life to the fullest without regard to women.  Rather than putting time and money into women I decided to purchase a "fixer upper" home and enjoy putting it together.  This would be a home for ME to enjoy building and living in, not a home for a future family.  I had previously enjoyed learning Russian so I decided to take a Russian language class at the local community college.  This would be for my own enjoyment and personal development, not so that I could pursue a Russian woman.

But I decided to create an account on Elena's Models and enjoy talking with women anyway.  You never know, right?  I didn't really expect anything to come of it.  But then, one morning, I woke up to a message from Ms. Novosibirsk.  I won't talk about her here because I think I'm going to go back to finishing that story.  Sorry to spoil the ending of that thread but I ended up marrying her in 2015 and divorcing in 2019.  I went against everything I discovered from MGTOW and went all 100% in on doing my best to build a future and a family with this women.  Only to be crushed a few years later when it didn't work out.

Which brings me to the point of this post.  What am I going to do with the rest of my life.  I've been in a real slump for over a year now since the divorce (and the coronavirus shutdown).  My daughters live with me full time and are 17 and 19 years old.  The youngest is in her senior year of high school.  To be 100% honest, I think I would really like to find a good woman who desires and is young enough to have a family.  But this seems foolish to me now.  I really feel like I should just go back to where I was in 2012 when I discovered MGTOW but after trying so hard with Ms. Novosibirsk and raising my daughters as a single dad through their teenage years living seem rather pointless without having someone to share it with.

So what do you think?  I've got the rest of my life to do whatever I want.  I've considered going back to school and working on a Ph.D.  I've considered quitting my job and going to live in Russia.  I've accepted a part time job as a ski instructor this winter that I am REALLY looking forward to.  I've got a French girlfriend with two adorable children.  The sex is AMAZING but I don't see it going anywhere.  I was going to start a fencing school this year but the corona virus has kept me from doing that.  I'm doing the Gambler 500 again this fall.  I've got exciting projects I am doing at my work.  This is all "fine and dandy" but life just feels empty and meaningless after loosing Ms. Novosibirsk. 

Fun**** Sake! I lost every thing and spent 6 month in a tent by the river !! 12 months in a bloody squat .. and 2 years in bloody bed sit land.. working some fu*** shit job.. I walked 4 miles to work and back every day to save money and that was in the pissing rain, snow, ice and worse .. often with little twats wanting a fight early in the morning..I was traveling to Russia on Ryan air to Latvia for $10 and taking a bus to St Petersburg 12 hours for another $10.00. Sleeping in the train station 3 nights to also save some money.. then a week in a hostel whilst looking for love..

Your life is absolute luxury!!! You're not even old!!! You get everything in front of you..

I would just take it easy  to find some women you got plenty of time!

[Ward_Cleaver]

Thank you so much to everyone who has posted here.  There is so much good advise here.  Most of this I already understand but it is appreciated anyway.  More specifically:

When people lose a relationship they often get a hormone drop and which causes them to become depressed. You most likely will need a little more time before you are able to make the best decision what is best for you. It is important that you do not make the same mistake a second time. This does not have anything to do with which country you wife came from or the country your new love. But if you do not fix what happened to the last relationship you will likely have the same problem again.

Regarding correlation between hormone and lifestyle choices I hold the following as a paramount rule for myself:  NEVER STOP GOING TO THE GYM AND LIFTING!  I used to go to the gym regularly prior to meeting Ms. Novosibirsk.  Then when we got together she started coming with me.  It was good but, eventually I stopped going and looking back now I clearly see that this effected my mental well being and ability to deal with difficult situations.  I'm going regularly again and it feels amazing.

The question is interesting, my guess is what are your goals?

Make a five, ten and 20 year plan and work towards those goals or dreams.[/size][/font]

I guess that is what I am asking myself here.  What am I doing?  Where am I going?  To be 100% honest I would love nothing more than to find a good woman I can trust to build a family with.  But I wonder how much of a reality this is.  I date women here locally and don't see anything here worthy of my time.  I know that sounds bad on the surface but my life is good and I don't need really need anything from anyone.  I would just like to share what I have in life and what I've work hard to develop myself into with someone that is a good match for me.

On the surface it seem like it would be a good idea to make a 5, 10, or 20 year plan but I feel that puts pressure on myself to force something.  I think it would be wise of me to be open to opportunities that are right for me but not put pressure on myself to feel like I have failed or missed out on something if it doesn't happen.

Some of the things you propose are what 20 something year olds are doing. At 46 yo, you should be accomplished. Not knowing what you want to do in life is not attractive to quality women. Your life became empty after losing Ms. Novosibirsk? That meant there wasn't much more to your life other than Ms. Novosibirsk and it probably turned her off. Some man out there knows how to keep a woman like that happy. Become that man so you can attract another quality woman and keep her.

Very good points here.  When I first met Ms. Novosibirsk I had a plan and direction for my life.  And, with the exception of loosing Ms. Novosibirsk, I have accomplished many of them.  I have my home paid for.  I've bought a second home that is generating income that is nearly paid for.  I have finished raising my two daughters from a previous marriage.  I have carved a rewarding career for myself with good income.  The one thing that I should be putting more effort into would be finishing the renovation on the home I am living in.  But it is emotionally difficult for me to do that because this was going to be the home I shared with Ms. Novosibirsk.  She helped me work on it.  Now it is a reminder of loosing her.  So I am reconsidering what to do with it.  I think I am going to finish it up and rent it out.

Regarding my 20 something year old plans, I am realizing that I don't owe nobody anything.  My life is mine.  I am not tied down by anyone or anything.  I have finished raising my daughters to adulthood.  I have a place to live that is paid for and enough supplemental income that I don't need a 9-5 job anymore.  My plan was to start over with Ms. Novosibirsk and create a family that I could love and serve.  But that is gone now and so is a certain sense of purpose and direction.  Some of the things I have listed are really just opportunities to give back.  I used to REALLY enjoy skiing with my children and Ms Novosibirsk.  Last season I mostly skied by myself and would watch families with small children and ski instructors with envy.  So I applied to be a ski instructor for 4-10 year old children and I thrilled to do that this season.  I would pay for my own season pass and do this for free, but I guess I'll let them pay me and provide me with a pass.  Similarly, the fencing school I want to start will be 100% free.  I just want to share what I know about the sport with people who would not likely consider it otherwise.  Something else I enjoy doing is working with horses, particularly "babies".  I noticed a "baby" in my neighborhood just a few days ago.  I think I'm going to approach the homeowner and see if there is an interest in having me "break" the horse for them (again for free).

So maybe I am thinking to far in advance about this but something I am considering is to take all my vacation time next summer and arrange to live somewhere in Russia for as long as I can without quitting my job.  This would definitively NOT be a typical MOB/tour type of a thing.  I would like to find a job while I am there and just live.  I would like to meet people and really get to know them.  To understand better how they live.  I've been thinking about reaching out to the handicapped woman I know in Ukraine.  She lives in a more rural area and might know of agricultural work that I could perform with my limited knowledge of the language.

I guess in summary I feel that I am lacking purpose in life.  I want to give.  Eating more hamburgers, wearing fancy clothes, having people admire me isn't the motivation I need to get out of bed in the morning.  I thought I was going to have that purpose through raising a family with Ms. Novosibirsk.  So now I am looking at other options in life.

I can only assume that MGTOW is another acronym but I don't know what it stands for... can you share the term's expansion?

Manny is right.  MGTOW stand for Men Going Their Own Way.  But I wouldn't agree completely with the Wikipedia article linked.  For me MGTOW means accepting the truth about women and doing your own thing in life regardless of what women think, do, or want.  Other people may call this "Red Pill" thinking or "Red Pill" awareness.

Fun**** Sake! I lost every thing and spent 6 month in a tent by the river !! 12 months in a bloody squat .. and 2 years in bloody bed sit land.. working some fu*** shit job.. I walked 4 miles to work and back every day to save money and that was in the pissing rain, snow, ice and worse .. often with little twats wanting a fight early in the morning..I was traveling to Russia on Ryan air to Latvia for $10 and taking a bus to St Petersburg 12 hours for another $10.00. Sleeping in the train station 3 nights to also save some money.. then a week in a hostel whilst looking for love..

I ended up living in a horse barn exercising race horses. It was an amazing experience that I am grateful for.  Sometimes I wish I could go back.

[cufflinks]

I find this Gents channel informative and upbeat he is anti MOB and just wrapped a webinar  regarding UA RU culture and filtering insincere ladies and scammers... He is a former lawyer and now basically a lifestyle coach... HTH

AGAIN, with the clueless Conor ?

1/ He posts CRAP about life in Ukraine

2/ He's posts bollox about finding a FSU W

3/ He'll happily relieve you of several thousand dollars for info you'll find for free, here ..

Um let's see ancient wisdom States always use local scouts when recon in a new territory...

So who would you want as a wingman?

Cool Clueful Connor. 

Or...

Wacked out Wingnut Manic Moby...

Rhetorical question we already know the answer as Mobster would get you arrested and kept in a cage like he did his wife having managed to imprison her... In a cage for days on end. 

WTF.   

[cufflinks]

To Ward...  This saga begs a sober look at the questions:

Why did she leave you?

Where did she go?

Are you legally divorced and free to remarry?

How did you manage to avoid being legally divorce raped?

For issues that contributed to the divorce which issues were on your part and which issues were on her part and how can you avoid those in the future?

Be honest what were her Red Flags and what are your Red Flags you both overlooked?

[Steveboy]

To Ward...  This saga begs a sober look at the questions:

Why did she leave you?

Where did she go?

Are you legally divorced and free to remarry?

How did you manage to avoid being legally divorce raped?

For issues that contributed to the divorce which issues were on your part and which issues were on her part and how can you avoid those in the future?

Be honest what were her Red Flags and what are your Red Flags you both overlooked?

I don't think those things matter!! And who cares life is too short!

Its just a matter of getting up, dusting yourself down, pulling the socks up.. a couple of smacks round the face by yourself and getting on with things!

It's just a women, its just a divorce its nothing!!

Just think about the person who went to Africa on a peace mission for a local hospital and accidentally stepped on a bloody land mine and lost both legs and one arm! Now he has got some thing to worry about and good reason to be slightly depressed  BUT do you think he is going to spend all his life looking for his legs? Wondering where his legs and arm went ? Wondering why he trod on a frigging land mine?

Its just life.. things happen!

[Ward_Cleaver]

Why did she leave you?

I suppose I could give a quick/short answer to this question but I think there are enough details that it should be answered here.

Where did she go?

She has her own condo here in Salt Lake City.   It's kind of hard knowing she is right here, just a few miles away, and I can't even be friends with her.

Are you legally divorced and free to remarry?

Yes, we divorce in the spring of 2019.

How did you manage to avoid being legally divorce raped?

I don't know how to answer this one.  We didn't have any kids together.  When we divorced she already had her own place.  It's just paperwork if you don't fight with each other. 

For issues that contributed to the divorce which issues were on your part and which issues were on her part and how can you avoid those in the future?

Be honest what were her Red Flags and what are your Red Flags you both overlooked?

There is a LOT to be said about this.  Trust me, I've put a LOT of time into trying to understand all of this.  Again, I guess I should talk about this here..

[cufflinks]

In the late 90s I once asked a Russian woman working in sales for a major Boston Biotech if I should bring a Russian woman here... She cooly quipped back "Why not you will get at least two good years out of her!

That's when I discovered the Epidemic of ferral felonius RUUA green Card Girls running wild after dutifully banging their Green Card Mules for the requisite 2 or so years extracting resources sufficient to free herself from her burdensome mule...  Free to persue her next bigger better deal. AKA the Long Con.  Nuff said.

[Steveboy]

In the late 90s I once asked a Russian woman working in sales for a major Boston Biotech if I should bring a Russian woman here... She cooly quipped back "Why not you will get at least two good years out of her!

That's when I discovered the Epidemic of ferral felonius RUUA green Card Girls running wild after dutifully banging their Green Card Mules for the requisite 2 or so years extracting resources sufficient to free herself from her burdensome mule...  Nuff said.

That was years ago!! I don't think you will find many women now marrying a guy JUST for a Green card.. things have changed.. of course there will always be a few as with any country.. just like Gold diggers in the USA and every other country..

But women JUST marrying for a Green card today.. naaaaa that is old hat.. old fairy stories from 20 years ago..

[Manny]

after dutifully banging their Green Card Mules for the requisite 2 or so years extracting resources sufficient to free herself from her burdensome mule...  Free to persue her next bigger better deal. AKA the Long Con.  Nuff said.

The howl of the inadequate bloke who batted out of his league.

[cufflinks]

In the late 90s I once asked a Russian woman working in sales for a major Boston Biotech if I should bring a Russian woman here... She cooly quipped back "Why not you will get at least two good years out of her!

That's when I discovered the Epidemic of ferral felonius RUUA green Card Girls running wild after dutifully banging their Green Card Mules for the requisite 2 or so years extracting resources sufficient to free herself from her burdensome mule...  Nuff said.

That was years ago!! I don't think you will find many women now marrying a guy JUST for a Green card.. things have changed.. of course there will always be a few as with any country.. just like Gold diggers in the USA and every other country..

But women JUST marrying for a Green card today.. naaaaa that is old hat.. old fairy stories from 20 years ago..

Everything Old is New Again...  Donbass, Krym, Minsk, Polonium Tea, Navalny.  What goes around comes around.

[Ukrainianlover]

Wow...I read the whole saga on the start of your journey leading to your relationship with Mrs.Novosibirsk through your post history. You went from sounding like someone who was never going to get on a flight and was all talk and no action to going all the way and tasting success. I know we would like to include our girlfriend or wife in our hobby’s but I find it’s best to leave Russian and Ukrainian women to their own thing. I love video games but I’d never ask my wife to play them with me as it’s my thing. What kind of woman loves call of duty. It makes my wife happy to see me enjoying and doing my own thing just like she enjoys scouring the internet and reading reviews on the next perfume she wants or looks for sales on clothes at the stores we go to when she’s looking for a new style etc. we spend a lot of time to together and it’s wonderful.

When I was reading your posts about including her in your hobby such as hiking or being an outdoors couple. I thought this ain’t going to end good. Where we can look at a sunset or appreciate the beauty of nature. Ukrainian and Russian women would see the beauty in taking a photo on a yacht with them in a bikini and that would make them happy and they could care less about the beauty of nature surrounding them. It just magnifies them looking gorgeous. It seemed like a forced thing to include them in hiking. If you seen she was wearing the wrong shoes and didn’t put much effort into the activity of hiking. You should have left it at that. The pictures she you took of her seemed like she was just being nice going hiking but really didn’t want to be there. It’s like being around a vegan trying to make you eat the garbage they consume and your just being nice to shut them up. It’s the same thing where a man may have a house in the country and think. ohhh she’s going to love it back here. It’s far from civilization and we just have the whole world to ourselves back here. That’s a massive turnoff. They’d want you to sell that house and move to city center and that would make them more happy.

I think most men miss the point of getting with a Slavic beauty. Your getting a woman that has pure femininity. Just because in our culture we date girls that pretend to like video games and is one of the boys drinking beers and swearing and can hang with the best of us. But most times it’s an illusion. It’s just to lure you in. I don’t like women like that. If a woman can change a tire or build a dresser. It’s a turn off. I went to Ukraine looking for a woman and what I got was exactly that. If you wanted a girl that likes the outdoors then you went to the wrong country. The only time a Ukrainian girl likes the outdoors is if she’s tanning on a beach or sitting in a cafe getting a buzz on from a glass of wine. I find a lot of couples these days try and force each other into their hobbies They like and it just doesn’t work and when it doesn’t. The other person gets mad and disappointed. If my wife pulled up a chair and wanted to game..sure I hand her a controller but does she. No way. Just like when my wife does her nails or does her hair etc. I don’t ask her what she’s doing. That’s her thing to look hot for me.

My wife won’t let me even cook because she thinks I’m going to light the place up and that’s fine with me. I’m a man and I believe women should be the ones cooking and cleaning. We do a lot of stuff together but when it comes to her doing her girly things. I either tease her or just let her do her thing just like if she wants attention. She come up and start cuddling me and want to do something with her.

The best type of Russian or Ukrainian woman to date and marry is the most useless one. This will fly over everyone’s head as they won’t get it. I’m sure anyone who’s been with their Russian or Ukrainian girlfriend long enough has watched a movie a time or two with them and chances are it was called “And I still love you”. There is a blond chick named Vera. After watch through this whole series. You’ll come to love watching this girl suffer because you think..how dumb is this chick. At first you pity her thinking..my god she’s naive. Maybe it’s because she grew up in an orphanage and wasn’t properly brought up. Then she meets a successful man in Moscow and gets a chance to get into the rich Moscow Elites circle. She marries this man and the whole time she screws it up. It’s like if you gave someone a million dollars to do whatever they want with it and they spend it all in a day instead of investing it into something. you’d think. what is wrong with you. Anyways. Long story short. What I got out of the story reminded me of any Ukrainian or Russian girl I talked to lacked leadership or direction. You truly are the master in these girls lives. My wife still gets lost in the Walmart we shop in years later. Crossing the street is a adventure in itself because she thinks cars are out to get her. But hey. In Ukraine cars run pedestrians down all the time so it’s ingrained in her head that it’s like that everywhere.

I find the good Ukrainian and Russian woman have no independence at all and if you do meet the ones that do. Run very fast away from them. My wife can operate as a woman very well but when it comes to doing the majority if stuff. I’m operating the brains for the two of us and that’s fine. I like it that way. Also if she’s a big fan if her grandmother then my god. Snatch these ones up fast because they truly are the best ones to get in their country.

It suck that Ms. Novosibirsk had an independent process going on. If my friends want me to go out for a drink with them and stay at their place for the night. My wife literally can’t live without me. Even though we live in the nicest country in the world and our apartment is in a very nice neighborhood. To this day Many many years later, she still doesn’t want to be left alone. She comes up with all these ideas of what it’s like to stay alone. I laugh because I think. Your from a very bad part of the city where you come from and you now live in luxury..come on honey. But it’s ok. Because having someone rely on you all the time is pretty cool.

I think cleave Ward. You were looking for a hot russian or Ukrainian girl that had all the somewhat qualities of a Western girl and just didn’t realize it. Yes it’s nice to have similar interests but I save the majority of that for my guy friends. Women aren’t suppose to like watching sports or doing physical sports unless it’s the gym to look and stay hot. Treat a woman as a woman and you’ll get rewarded big time. I had a friend describe to me what he was looking for when hunting for a girl. He said she has to like Sports, is funny, Likes the outdoors, camping, swears, plays video games, loves drinking and partying and isn’t afraid to get dirty. I pointed him to the male dating sites. He gave me a dirty look and I told him..sounds like the person you want is a man because what woman does all those things.

I wish you the best of luck if you ever pursue a russian or Ukrainian woman again. If you meet the right one and know exactly what your looking for. There is no better women on this earth. Most guys just want the hot rocket which is fine but most don’t know how  to tame that type of girl.

[andrewfi]

Ugh! It's a good job we don't all want to live with a sub-normal pet, eh?

You might well be right about Ward's woman's lack of interest in roughing it in the countryside and not forcing each other's interests upon each other.

I can enjoy the company of a pet, but just as I don't have a cat or a dog, much as I like them - for a time, I can't imagine ever keeping one.

[Manny]

A lot of that didn't ring true with me either.

As he is a new poster, he mentioned living in the "nicest country in the world", I wasn't sure where he meant. Switzerland maybe? New Zealand? Norway?

Maybe we should have a separate topic to discuss some of Ukrainelover's points? There is some discussion-worthy stuff there.

[NS1]

I agreed with some of what he posted but not some other.
Having a smart independant women is a good thing and if you got your shit together,
you will be fine. I do agree, you don't have to do everything together, every hobby.
Actually I think its healthy to do odd thing apart.

Interesting take, but many mixed messages and some bad advice IMO.

[cufflinks]

UAluvr gave us a glaring Clue: Walmart

Unaware of Walmart in Norway, NZ or Switzerland...

Visited ASDA at lunch in Warrington Many Times on contract there...

So the Best Country in the World is CanMexUSA... where there are many Wally Worlds.

[AvHdB]

The best type of Russian or Ukrainian woman to date and marry is the most useless one. This will fly over everyone’s head as they won’t get it.

From the above long post I noticed this. I will assume your education was American Public Schools.

It will be interesting to read more about how you came to embrace the above thinking.

I am curious when where you in Ukraine and how often?

[Ward_Cleaver]

When I was reading your posts about including her in your hobby such as hiking or being an outdoors couple. I thought this ain’t going to end good. Where we can look at a sunset or appreciate the beauty of nature. Ukrainian and Russian women would see the beauty in taking a photo on a yacht with them in a bikini and that would make them happy and they could care less about the beauty of nature surrounding them. It just magnifies them looking gorgeous. It seemed like a forced thing to include them in hiking. If you seen she was wearing the wrong shoes and didn’t put much effort into the activity of hiking. You should have left it at that. The pictures she you took of her seemed like she was just being nice going hiking but really didn’t want to be there. It’s like being around a vegan trying to make you eat the garbage they consume and your just being nice to shut them up. It’s the same thing where a man may have a house in the country and think. ohhh she’s going to love it back here. It’s far from civilization and we just have the whole world to ourselves back here. That’s a massive turnoff. They’d want you to sell that house and move to city center and that would make them more happy.

I'm sorry but you couldn't be more wrong.  After we were separated (2018 - 2019) she would try to get me to go on hikes with her and I was less than enthusiastic about it (at the time).  I was just looking through some old messages and found this as an example:

Jan 15, 2019
Ms. Novosibirsk: Do you think Hot Springs are open in winter? I though so

Ward Cleaver: I think so. You might need snowshoes. Be careful. I just worry about you. When are you going? I should know all details in case you have problems and need rescue.

Ms. Novosibirsk: Today

Ward Cleaver: When are you leaving? When do you expect to be back? Will you have cell phone coverage?

Ms. Novosibirsk: Do you want to come with then?

Ward Cleaver: It sounds like fun but I am at the dentist now and I am in a lot of pain.

Ms. Novosibirsk: Oh I'm sorry. We don't go until a bit later and you could take a painkiller. I have a good Russian pill

Ward Cleaver: I'm going to have to take pain killers now just to get through the day. I'm in a lot of pain. I'm going to have to be eating liquids for a while. I feel like I've been hit by a truck. I'm home now in bed. Let me know when you leave and when you expect to be back.

Ms. Novosibirsk: We are driving there now

Ward Cleaver: Okay, when do you expect to be done and come back? Let me know when you get there and start hiking. Are you going with anyone else?

I miss her so much and wish more than anything I could go back in time to be with her.  But when I read this snapshot from time I see how she is concerned about herself and what she wants.  She was always putting pressure on me to do what she wanted to do and didn't really care about me.  Some people have told me that I was not "in love" but rather I was trauma bonded to her.  I don't know.  I just feel like I am about to waste the rest of my life living in the past and not ever moving forward.