Russian pay bounty on USA troops

[Texan77]

This is becoming big news in the USA and has been in our media for several days now. This is not just a new article but rather a story from numerous sources. Our congress is looking into this and is asking to punish Russia a lot for this if found out to be true. 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/senate-republicans-squeeze-trump-over-russian-bounties/ar-BB167MHH?li=BBnb7Kz

[BillyB]

This is becoming big news in the USA and has been in our media for several days now. This is not just a new article but rather a story from numerous sources. Our congress is looking into this and is asking to punish Russia a lot for this if found out to be true. 

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/senate-republicans-squeeze-trump-over-russian-bounties/ar-BB167MHH?li=BBnb7Kz

Since the story came from the NY Times and their anonymous sources, I'm sure it's fake news.


In other news America is considering buying $2.5 billion dollars worth of Russian S-400 missiles from Turkey. This is a brilliant chess move.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-could-buy-turkey-russia-191035140.html

[msmoby]

BillyB,

I'd like to play you at chess..

1/ Putin OOO has been paid for the missiles

2/ Turkey gets the money back, for what's been sent to Putin OOO

3/ USA pays loadsadosh for missiles it won't learn anything from, to save face, and allow Turkey to carry on supplying vital parts for the F-35

PS : all parties deny the bounty story... but let's be honest .. it's probably got an element of truth to it as the CIA was quite happy to supply the Mujahideen with missiles and other armaments to make flying Hinds a suicide mission for Soviet personnel .

The 'games' continue .. How *I* wish we could get back to the heady days of optimism re relations with Russia

[Markje]

PS : all parties deny the bounty story... but let's be honest .. it's probably got an element of truth to it

The 'games' continue .. How *I* wish we could get back to the heady days of optimism re relations with Russia

You sound like a woman that cries rape where there is none because she doesn't like the target.

You can get optimism any day you want, all it takes is to change your own mindset and not believe the western propaganda (which there is plenty).

[msmoby]

You sound like a woman that cries rape where there is none because she doesn't like the target.

No, Dear Markje..

I'm a westerner that goes to Russia proper ( not a Republic gifted to Ukraine and sized back by force )

I've watched how Chechnya unfolded , 'Abkhazia' ( Georgia), S.Ossetia ( Georgia) , 'Transdniestria' ( Moldova) , Donbas ( Ukraine) and see a pattern you refuse to see...


Litvinenko , Skripals, plus amazing number of Political PiA's murdered by Chechens ) ..

MH-17 ...  ( 'it was UA Su-25;s, Israeli missiles' )

..and I'm not selectively blind ,,,

You can get optimism any day you want, all it takes is to change your own mindset and not believe the western propaganda (which there is plenty).

 

[BillyB]

Moby, there's a reason nobody will put you in charge of anything.

Bottom line is NATO F-35s shouldn't be near S-400 missiles which increases the chance Russia will learn its radar signature. Turkey already bought the S-400 but America will help them save face by buying them off Turkey. America will study the technology of the S-400 and since they will be out of Turkey's hands, they will buy billions worth of F-35s. Chances are Putin doesn't want America to learn about the S-400 just as we don't want Russia to learn the radar signature of the F-35. Russia may decide to withhold those missiles and refund Turkey. Either way, no matter what Russia does, Turkey gets to buy F-35s

[msmoby]

Moby, there's a reason nobody will put you in charge of anything.

 

There's a reason you haven't a clue what I run from ' the basement'

Bottom line is NATO F-35s shouldn't be near S-400 missiles which increases the chance Russia will learn its radar signature. Turkey already bought the S-400 but America will help them save face by buying them off Turkey. America will study the technology of the S-400 and since they will be out of Turkey's hands, they will buy billions worth of F-35s. Chances are Putin doesn't want America to learn about the S-400 just as we don't want Russia to learn the radar signature of the F-35. Russia may decide to withhold those missiles and refund Turkey. Either way, no matter what Russia does, Turkey gets to buy F-35s

Never has such a fail on the US' part been spun so poorly..

1/ Erdogan gets what he wants ...and will still make vital parts for the F-35

2/ The Russians get paid ..by America

3/ The US are effectively paying the Russians for a missile system that will teach them nothing

You've been played, you ijit

[Steveboy]

You sound like a woman that cries rape where there is none because she doesn't like the target.

No, Dear Markje..

I'm a westerner that goes to Russia proper ( not a Republic gifted to Ukraine and sized back by force )

I've watched how Chechnya unfolded , 'Abkhazia' ( Georgia), S.Ossetia ( Georgia) , 'Transdniestria' ( Moldova) , Donbas ( Ukraine) and see a pattern you refuse to see...


Litvinenko , Skripals, plus amazing number of Political PiA's murdered by Chechens ) ..

MH-17 ...  ( 'it was UA Su-25;s, Israeli missiles' )

..and I'm not selectively blind ,,,

You can get optimism any day you want, all it takes is to change your own mindset and not believe the western propaganda (which there is plenty).

 

'Transdniestria'.  Just make sure people keep out of there who want to change stuff!! I got a nice vegetable garden in Bender and any bugger who sets foot on it will find them selves being used as compost for the cabbages..

[Markje]

You sound like a woman that cries rape where there is none because she doesn't like the target.

No, Dear Markje..

I'm a westerner that goes to Russia proper ( not a Republic gifted to Ukraine and sized back by force )

I'm not sharing my Itenaries online, far too dangerous. Crimea isn't the only place I goto in Russia.
I did however stop going to Ukraine entirely after the donbass/crimea events, because I do not want to
get in trouble with the Ukrainian authority for visiting my in-laws. So far I have been to St. Pete, (Will probably be there again around christmas)  Moscow, Volgograd (nice statue!). I do have to note, the feel of "crimea" is the same as those cities, it felt very different than kiev, ternopil, kharkov, Uman, Kherson to name a few cities I visitted in Ukraine.

I've watched how Chechnya unfolded , 'Abkhazia' ( Georgia), S.Ossetia ( Georgia) , 'Transdniestria' ( Moldova) , Donbas ( Ukraine) and see a pattern you refuse to see...

Thats rich since I never commented on any of those except Donbas. And the only stance I have taken on Donbas is that they should stop killing and end the war there. I (and you apparently don't) realize I know far too little to judge peoples political decisions over there.

One can only imagine how bad Ukraine must feel to Donbass to break away, cause a massive civil war and keeping it up despite the casualties. It would be far easier to simply rejoin ukraine and give up this attempt.

Litvinenko , Skripals, plus amazing number of Political PiA's murdered by Chechens ) ..

MH-17 ...  ( 'it was UA Su-25;s, Israeli missiles' )

Amazingly, none of those were proven either.

In fact , in MH-17s case, Russia has been actively EXCLUDED as a state actor by the others.

..and I'm not selectively blind ,,,

No, you are completely blind 

You can get optimism any day you want, all it takes is to change your own mindset and not believe the western propaganda (which there is plenty).

 

That about says it all. You deny western propaganda with a hearty laugh. I do not.

[msmoby]

I'm not sharing my Itenaries online, far too dangerous. Crimea isn't the only place I goto in Russia.

'Dangerous' ? ..  Anyway you have  and I think you'll be safe, unless you think the Ukrainian SBU will have you extradited for visiting a part of Ukraine without a Dozvril and entering via Ukraine..

I did however stop going to Ukraine entirely after the donbass/crimea events, because I do not want to
get in trouble with the Ukrainian authority for visiting my in-laws. So far I have been to St. Pete, (Will probably be there again around christmas)  Moscow, Volgograd (nice statue!). I do have to note, the feel of "crimea" is the same as those cities, it felt very different than kiev, ternopil, kharkov, Uman, Kherson to name a few cities I visitted in Ukraine.

That's 'interesting' given Kherson is in Donbas and Kharhiv ( Kharkov) ( although not in Donbas) have heavily pro Russian populations, like say ( Mariupol )

Your stance on the war in Donbas has been tacit support for the 'rebels' and denial re MH-17 viz:

One can only imagine how bad Ukraine must feel to Donbass to break away, cause a massive civil war and keeping it up despite the casualties. It would be far easier to simply rejoin ukraine and give up this attempt.

Except it WASN'T 'bad' ... and no-one was 'upset' with a UA flag flying ove the lovely new airport in Donetsk or signing the UA national anthem in the stadium for the Euros in 2012 ..  'Someone' was doing ( a lot ) of shit-stirring

Litvinenko , Skripals, plus amazing number of Political PiA's murdered by Chechens ) ..
MH-17 ...  ( 'it was UA Su-25;s, Israeli missiles' )

Amazingly, none of those were proven either.

Ah, so there was another Markje 'defending' the notion that 2x UA SU-25s were involved in the downing of MH-17 - as suggested by Moscow on Monday 21st July, 2014? ... My 'mistake' ...   

The Skripals ? They have asked to be left alone .. How many nations sent RU diplomats packing and believed the UK govt ? 

Litvinenko and the murders of other dissidents ?.. I really do get you believe denials are not proof and RU isn't going to let those suspected be tried,,,

In fact , in MH-17s case, Russia has been actively EXCLUDED as a state actor by the others.

The case at the mo, is against four individuals - 3 who are Russian - and the weapon used ...from a Russian airborne division in Kursk ! ( not Su-25's as was the first 'suggestion by Moscow ) ..but you can wait for the result of the trial..

..and I'm not selectively blind ,,,

No, you are completely blind 

From the date of the opening of the Krim Most, Dutch govt websites, Vodafone being a tiny dutch subsidiary.. (but a few examples )  I put it to you that you have long needed to have your eyes tested

That about says it all. You deny western propaganda with a hearty laugh. I do not.

Western govts come and go... they do not control the media ... In Russia, the govt controls the media and even own the biggest media cos, or they are run by a friendly Oligarch .. or they control 51% .. or use Roskomnadzor to 'neuter' opposition.

There's some perspective for you ..

[Steamer]

Since when do you have to bribe the Taliban to shoot US troops? I always thought they did it for free.

[Texan77]

The story not dying.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/afghan-contractor-handed-out-russian-cash-to-kill-americans-officials-say/ar-BB16e4Xh?li=BBnb7Kz

[Markje]

Western govts come and go... they do not control the media ... In Russia, the govt controls the media and even own the biggest media cos, or they are run by a friendly Oligarch .. or they control 51% .. or use Roskomnadzor to 'neuter' opposition.

There's some perspective for you ..

Russian media has just as much propaganda as western media. Yet you deny the latter, despite many proven cases to the contrary.

In Netherlands for instance, the state owns the media 100% together with Belgium. Newspapers(Mediahuis) or Public channels (NPO) are 100% state-owned and controlled. RTL is a commercial venue, yet they often use news from NPO because they say its trustworthy making them dependent on the Dutch state also.

BBC is also 100% state-owned, the state even tries (and succeeds in 99% of the cases) to levy taxes to run the BBC.
They even forbid foreigners to receive the BBC because of what? Afraid other countries will see the British propaganda?

Even Ruptly or pervy kanal sometimes has interesting shows on them. Especially when dealing with western events that have nothing todo with Russia, you can then easily see the western media full blown propaganda when comparing the events with coverage from Russia.

I try to watch at least al-jazeera(eng), Russian and Western news. I only believe what all 3 agree on and then form my own opinion. You should try that sometimes.


Events in Crimea are actually a very good example of Western propaganda. I saw many reports about the 'unfair' elections and how people were 'forced' to vote. Yet if you have been to Crimea you would recognise the symbols the crowd showed in pictures, you would see the many smiling faces (Russians never smiled, i was thaught) and Crimean state-symbols flying openly without fear of Ukrainian state. You also didn't see 1 , not even a small one ukrainian flag.

Plus, I have personal experience to the events and don't believe 1 thing about Crimea wanting any different than what actually happened. Crimea wanted this whole-heartedly and they got it.

If the west had truly been pro-democracy they would have said: Ok so everything was a bit of a rush job, they did invite western monitors of most big European countries / USA but we all declined because of -insert reason here- , but things still went as people wanted so we accept Crimea as part of Russia.

You however will never acknowledge that, or that most if not all Crimeans have seen significant life improvements in the 6 years that Russia has been the majordomo of Crimea. Nor will you acknowledge that most, if not all, Crimeans are very happy with Russian rule because of previous words.
- Roads repaired
- Fresh Water supply from sketchy to dependable
- Electric net suffers few outages since 2014, used to be common
- Crimea became self-supportive with huge new electric plants and de-saltation plants for water.
- Crimea got a bridge because Ukraine decided to cut off all ties to Crimea.
- Tatar became an official language next to Russian, before only Ukrainian was allowed.
- Salaries / Savings doubled over night, even with inflation of the Rouble many are still better off than they were in 2014.

I could go on, but you will not listen.

But you will never hear any of that in the western news because it didn't fit the narrative.
Did you also not hear about (no you didnt, it was hush hush) the Italian ministers visiting Crimea in 2017 and came back with such positive news they were immediately censored and forbidden to talk about their visit. That was on ruptly. And indeed, that visit never happened according to western press, despite their names and itenaries visible on Italian state website.

No there is no western propaganda 

[msmoby]

Russian media has just as much propaganda as western media. Yet you deny the latter, despite many proven cases to the contrary. 

Markje,

the difference is the RU media ( controlled owned, run by mates of VVP or throttled re opposing views ) have agendas... The western media are NOT controlled by the govt .. it's therefore hardly propaganda

In Netherlands for instance, the state owns the media 100% together with Belgium. Newspapers(Mediahuis) or Public channels (NPO) are 100% state-owned and controlled. RTL is a commercial venue, yet they often use news from NPO because they say its trustworthy making them dependent on the Dutch state also.

FACTS re ownership of NL broadcasters:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_media_in_the_Netherlands

FACTS re ownership of B broadcasters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_in_Belgium

BBC is also 100% state-owned

Er, NO ..it's not ..

the state even tries (and succeeds in 99% of the cases) to levy taxes to run the BBC.

It's a licence and it is not the sole funding method of the BBC

The Foreign and Commonwealth office supplies funding for ( say) the BBC world service radio ...

They even forbid foreigners to receive the BBC because of what? Afraid other countries will see the British propaganda?

Hmm, I'll mention that to those in Ireland, NL, B, FR, etc, who can receive it's FTA transmissions ..many of whom receive it via cable, because a deal has been down to receive UK tv

The BBC has ITV, C4, Five and SKY competing for news coverage on TV ... NONE are owned by the govt and one can get US, Russian, Chinese, French, German and many more Free to Air news channels ..

Even Ruptly or pervy kanal sometimes has interesting shows on them. Especially when dealing with western events that have nothing todo with Russia, you can then easily see the western media full blown propaganda when comparing the events with coverage from Russia.

You just mention two totally RU govt owned channels ..

I try to watch at least al-jazeera(eng), Russian and Western news. I only believe what all 3 agree on and then form my own opinion. You should try that sometimes.

Seeing you just posted misleading guff, above and al Jazeera is a totally Qatari owned media co, that's amusing 'advice' ..

*I* watch Vesti 24, read meduza.io and that is amazingly contrasting news from Russia,  I watch RT and the BBC and that can be amazingly contrasting stuff from Britain

Events in Crimea are actually a very good example of Western propaganda.

I watch events on Crimea via RU and UA tv and atr.ru ( forced to stop broadcasting to Tatars from Crimea) atr.ru   Now there you really DO see contrasting stories ...

I saw many reports about the 'unfair' elections and how people were 'forced' to vote.[ Yet if you have been to Crimea you would recognise the symbols the crowd showed in pictures, you would see the many smiling faces (Russians never smiled, i was thaught) and Crimean state-symbols flying openly without fear of Ukrainian state. You also didn't see 1 , not even a small one ukrainian flag.

https://atr.ua/news/197984-politvazna-umerova-u-krimskomu-sizo-primusuvali-progolosuvati-za-zmini-do-konstitucii-rf-advokat

and the vote forcing stories continue to this day ..

Flying a Ukrainian flag... that's an offence
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/13/crimea-still-erasing-its-ukrainian-past-a-year-after-russias-takeover
On Thursday, Judge Natalia Urzhumova sentenced three locals to 40 hours of manual labour. Their crime: to have displayed the Ukrainian flag to which, until a year ago, the judge herself had pledged allegiance, and which had been on display in the very courtroom where the trial took place.

Plus, I have personal experience to the events and don't believe 1 thing about Crimea wanting any different than what actually happened. Crimea wanted this whole-heartedly and they got it.

I'll readily concede the MAJORITY wanted it, after mega-shit-shirring by Moscow and speaking of a threat from 'NATO' taking over 

If the west had truly been pro-democracy they would have said: Ok so everything was a bit of a rush job, they did invite western monitors of most big European countries / USA but we all declined because of -insert reason here- , but things still went as people wanted so we accept Crimea as part of Russia.

You are not the only chap who has visited Crimea post 2014..

You however will never acknowledge that, or that most if not all Crimeans have seen significant life improvements in the 6 years that Russia has been the majordomo of Crimea. Nor will you acknowledge that most, if not all, Crimeans are very happy with Russian rule because of previous words.
- Roads repaired
- Fresh Water supply from sketchy to dependable
- Electric net suffers few outages since 2014, used to be common
- Crimea became self-supportive with huge new electric plants and de-saltation plants for water.
- Crimea got a bridge because Ukraine decided to cut off all ties to Crimea.
- Tatar became an official language next to Russian, before only Ukrainian was allowed.
- Salaries / Savings doubled over night, even with inflation of the Rouble many are still better off than they were in 2014.

I could go on, but you will not listen.

Before 2014, Ukrainians and Russians holidayed in Crimea without an issue ..You try to tell me that that's back to those levels and I'll list you the places STILL closed ..

Did you also not hear about (no you didnt, it was hush hush) the Italian ministers visiting Crimea in 2017 and came back with such positive news they were immediately censored and forbidden to talk about their visit. That was on ruptly. And indeed, that visit never happened according to western press, despite their names and itenaries visible on Italian state website.

 

In 2015 Sylvio Berlusconi ( former IT PM ) met VVP in Crimea  in Sept 15 .. covered in WESTERN media

New right of centre coalition calls for review of sanctions re Crimea ..WESTERN MEDIA

These headlines are easily found by Googling..

No there is no western propaganda 

There is fairER and more proportionate, coverage .. 

PS: I found a lovely pro RU website in Italian ( specific search re Crimea)  and no mention of the 2017 visit ... ?
https://ndnews.it/it/meta/6.html

That doesn't mean it didn't happen... perhaps most independent western news stations didn't think it 'newsworthy ' ?

[Manny]

the state even tries (and succeeds in 99% of the cases) to levy taxes to run the BBC.

It's a licence and it is not the sole funding method of the BBC

No its a TV tax extracted under threat of court and a criminal record if you don't pay. But not when Boris decriminalises it soon.....

The BBC has ITV, C4, Five and SKY competing for news coverage on TV ... NONE are owned by the govt and one can get US, Russian, Chinese, French, German and many more Free to Air news channels ..

Wrong. The government owns Channel 4 as well. Wipe the egg from your chin and eat some crow, Mr TV Expert. 

[Markje]

Markje,

In Netherlands for instance, the state owns the media 100% together with Belgium. Newspapers(Mediahuis) or Public channels (NPO) are 100% state-owned and controlled. RTL is a commercial venue, yet they often use news from NPO because they say its trustworthy making them dependent on the Dutch state also.

FACTS re ownership of NL broadcasters:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_media_in_the_Netherlands

From your own link,  its even worse: "Commercial broadcasting was banned until the late 1980s" so before 1980 we had 0 TV stations outside of government control because it was illegal. Only in the last 40 years we can see some progress on commercial television (commercial not being outside of govt control, just that its not funded by govt also).

The 2 commercial cooperations on TV only broadcast / parrot the official government line without criticism. This means that the government has full control of the news on tv.

Moving on.
Newspaper section is very outdated. TMG doesn't own telegraaf anymore, thats now mediahuis (same as belgian newspapers) you know very little of what you speak and googling on wikipedia gives you outdated info.

Btw, another nice nugget from your page : "They were historically linked to the pillarisation system, with some titles having strong links to labour unions or political parties. " Emphasis mine. Looks like you're again crowing what your link contradicts. Perhaps thats why you just put the links there and hoped noone would follow em ?

FACTS re ownership of B broadcasters

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_in_Belgium

because of the high adoption rate of cable (95%) in Belgium which makes it unnecessary to broadcast commercially.

Ah so belgium is even worse, because of the high adoption rate, there are only state-owned and no commercial channels.
I am talking about transport of course, not the content.

and for the content , you're better off here :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlaamse_Radio-_en_Televisieomroeporganisatie

The Vlaamse Radio- en Televisieomroeporganisatie (Flemish Radio and Television Broadcasting Organisation), or VRT (Dutch: [ˌveːjɛrˈteː], is the national public-service broadcaster for the Flemish Community of Belgium.

So state owned, I win again.

BBC is also 100% state-owned

Er, NO ..it's not ..

I can safely leave this part to Manny whom debunked your stories many times concerning the BBC and state ownerships.

They even forbid foreigners to receive the BBC because of what? Afraid other countries will see the British propaganda?

Hmm, I'll mention that to those in Ireland, NL, B, FR, etc, who can receive it's FTA transmissions ..many of whom receive it via cable, because a deal has been down to receive UK tv

Ah right, so If I now goto bbc.co.uk and try to watch their shows with a Dutch IP without VPN I can watch?
I don't think so.

Satellite is becoming a thing from the past, IPTV will be the new free-to-air system.

Even Ruptly or pervy kanal sometimes has interesting shows on them. Especially when dealing with western events that have nothing todo with Russia, you can then easily see the western media full blown propaganda when comparing the events with coverage from Russia.

You just mention two totally RU govt owned channels ..

Yes, that was the point! we were discussing state-owned media remember?

I try to watch at least al-jazeera(eng), Russian and Western news. I only believe what all 3 agree on and then form my own opinion. You should try that sometimes.

Seeing you just posted misleading guff, above and al Jazeera is a totally Qatari owned media co, that's amusing 'advice' ..

*I* watch Vesti 24, read meduza.io and that is amazingly contrasting news from Russia,  I watch RT and the BBC and that can be amazingly contrasting stuff from Britain

And you just said that me watching RT was the reason of posting Guff. make up your mind! Plus again: we were discussing state-owned media, so it comes as no surprise that al-Jazeera is state-owned 

Events in Crimea are actually a very good example of Western propaganda.

I watch events on Crimea via RU and UA tv and atr.ru ( forced to stop broadcasting to Tatars from Crimea) atr.ru   Now there you really DO see contrasting stories ...

Riiiight, because those are actually popular channels that loads of RU/UA people watch.
Or they were terrorist channels that were banned because UA never had the balls to ban em.....

https://atr.ua/news/197984-politvazna-umerova-u-krimskomu-sizo-primusuvali-progolosuvati-za-zmini-do-konstitucii-rf-advokat

and the vote forcing stories continue to this day ..

Really? The western press would be all over that, if it had! There was little if even none vote-forcing going on. People were partying in the streets whilst casting votes, that was the reality. People do not party when being forced.

Flying a Ukrainian flag... that's an offence
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/13/crimea-still-erasing-its-ukrainian-past-a-year-after-russias-takeover
On Thursday, Judge Natalia Urzhumova sentenced three locals to 40 hours of manual labour. Their crime: to have displayed the Ukrainian flag to which, until a year ago, the judge herself had pledged allegiance, and which had been on display in the very courtroom where the trial took place.

Ah right, in 2015 ... but in 2014 when Crimea was supposedly still Ukrainian flying a flag of your own country was an offense? Twisting and spinning i see.

Plus, I have personal experience to the events and don't believe 1 thing about Crimea wanting any different than what actually happened. Crimea wanted this whole-heartedly and they got it.

I'll readily concede the MAJORITY wanted it, after mega-shit-shirring by Moscow and speaking of a threat from 'NATO' taking over 

You mean mega-shit-stirring of the EU/USA how yanukovich was a Russian puppet and not a real president.

We all knew he was a corrupt politician stealing millions from the state, but his successor poroshenko did the same AND prolonged a civil war against donbass. Unfortunately Zhelensky isn't doing better in this regard despite his promises to end the war.

You are not the only chap who has visited Crimea post 2014..

I would hope not. I can't be the sole source of income of the whole peninsula as a single tourist!

Before 2014, Ukrainians and Russians holidayed in Crimea without an issue ..You try to tell me that that's back to those levels and I'll list you the places STILL closed ..

Places come and go , new ones are being built in record-speed. The whole beach of Evpatoria is now littered with hotels where previously it was dust and sand. And booked solid. Last year I was even in a huge traffic-jam lasting hours trying to get past 'saki' on route to evpatoria. That certainly never happened before 2014.

Did you also not hear about (no you didnt, it was hush hush) the Italian ministers visiting Crimea in 2017 and came back with such positive news they were immediately censored and forbidden to talk about their visit. That was on ruptly. And indeed, that visit never happened according to western press, despite their names and itenaries visible on Italian state website.

 

In 2015 Sylvio Berlusconi ( former IT PM ) met VVP in Crimea  in Sept 15 .. covered in WESTERN media

New right of centre coalition calls for review of sanctions re Crimea ..WESTERN MEDIA

These headlines are easily found by Googling..

2017 is not 2015 , i find it odd that you would google for the wrong year.

There is fairER and more proportionate, coverage .. 

PS: I found a lovely pro RU website in Italian ( specific search re Crimea)  and no mention of the 2017 visit ... ?
https://ndnews.it/it/meta/6.html

Exactly! Thats my point, it has been hidden!

That doesn't mean it didn't happen... perhaps most independent western news stations didn't think it 'newsworthy ' ?

Or their overly enthousiastic words must have been 'not newsworthy' God forbid crimea doing well and is attractive.

[rosco]

Moby well and truly torn up for arse paper again!! 

And well done Mark for spending the time to do so. I personally appreciate how long it takes to correct the power posting paddy pensioner and it’s a thankless task.

Moby please learn from being hung out to dry. Only a nutter or a simpleton would persist with this transparent strategy of yours. You might get away with it over the road but your card is well and truly marked over here.

[Markje]

Moby well and truly torn up for arse paper again!! 

And well done Mark for spending the time to do so. I personally appreciate how long it takes to correct the power posting paddy pensioner and it’s a thankless task.

Moby please learn from being hung out to dry. Only a nutter or a simpleton would persist with this transparent strategy of yours. You might get away with it over the road but your card is well and truly marked over here.

Just for moby I looked up the number of tourists visiting Crimea in the last years

2014/2015 were 3 million as expected since everyone was unsure about it.
2016 already up to 4 million
2017 4.5 Million
2018 7 million (Record high for Crimea since 1990)
2019 10 Million was the benchmark, and .... they got it ! Another record.
2020 will be again a total loss, but thats covid's fault.

[BillyB]

The story not dying.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/afghan-contractor-handed-out-russian-cash-to-kill-americans-officials-say/ar-BB16e4Xh?li=BBnb7Kz

Media won't let it die. They are trying to make Trump look bad by implying he doesn't care about the troops. I'm pretty sure he cares about them more than Obama.

It may come as a surprise to some, but the arms the Taliban carry are Russian made. In Syria, some fighter groups are carrying American made weapons and are targeting Russians. These things happen.

[msmoby]

Just for moby I looked up the number of tourists visiting Crimea in the last years

2014/2015 were 3 million as expected since everyone was unsure about it.
2016 already up to 4 million
2017 4.5 Million
2018 7 million (Record high for Crimea since 1990)
2019 10 Million was the benchmark, and .... they got it ! Another record.
2020 will be again a total loss, but thats covid's fault.

 

Markje,


Rostat (2010)  suggest Greater Sochi had a population of 343,334

Sochi admin now claim c.450k

ANYONE who lives there, including the Supermarkets put the figure at over 700k ..


I'm not sure why voting results and populations and those infected with COVID-19 seem to be debated.


IF you remember, I said I' could mention tourist places that closed, never to re-open ...

Why do YOU think, no entrepreneur has reopened what were popular tourists attractions given you suggest a return to the dizzy days re 2014 ?