Fasting and Calorie Restriction: The 5:2 Diet, 16/8 etc.

[Manny]

The subject of fasting has cropped up in recent days a few times, for example:

I've been doing the 16/8 intermittent fasting for the last 2 years and I swear by it.

I've always been a fan of the 5:2 diet, I dropped almost 10kgs on it last year (circa 20 pounds).

Some of it crept back on, so I've been on it again the last couple of weeks. Two days a week on 600 calories only. Here for example is my dinner last night:



That is steamed broccoli, mushrooms, kale, carrots and onion with some garlic gravy on (and a hot chilli, some turmeric and black pepper). About 500g of steamed vegetables there coming out at just 214 calories. With 600 calories a day to play with, I'd had already a couple of hard boiled eggs, a slice of ham and a small salad earlier. I had enough after that for a small dessert of greek yoghurt and blueberries, and a small piece of toast and marmite for supper.

I find the trick is to drink stuff with zero (or almost zero) calories so you can use the calories you have on food. So that gives you water, black coffee, black or green tea or even Diet Coke if you must. At the moment I am on Hongsan Ginseng and Ginger tea I got from North Korea.



Generally, I find green tea quite easy to drink and helpful on diet days.

Kapusta and Kimchi are also very low calorie foods that can be added to almost anything adding very few calories. But vegetables are the way to go as meat generally has too many calories. Wifey does it sometimes and she eats steamed fish as that has very few calories as well.

I wonder if Danchik might expand on his 16/8 regime and anyone else who does similar might want to add how they do it? Lets discuss.

[Steveboy]

I have been eating seeds for two months now!!



Defiantly worked for me..

[Dogsoldier]

I’ve been toying with something close to the 16:8 regime for a few days. Not going hung ho into it but gently easing myself in.
So from 0600- I am eating breakfast (Alara Organic Muesli) with plain yoghurt or nuts and dried fruit, a mid morning snack of a piece of fruit and main meal at about 1500hrs.
All in all I’m consuming about 1000 cals/day on average.
In the evening I am burning upto 700 cals from walking.

I feel hungry post exercise so have been having a snack in the evening which I need to stop.
Limiting alcohol to weekends only.

All in all a work in progress.

[Manny]

That sounds pretty similar to the fast 800 diet by Michael Mosley, who was the pioneer of the 5:2.

What doesn't appeal to me about that is its every day, so there's not much in the way of reward (wine, pizza, fat steaks, etc). Whereby on the 5:2, you have a boring two days a week eating rabbit food and the other five slurping wine and quaffing steaks - and still lose weight.

The 16/8 I am interested to learn more about though.

[NS1]

IMO these diets don't work, why one asks
Simple its a short term fix to lose weight and
when you stop and go back to eating even somewhat normal
you put the weight on. So unless you plan on eating like this
the rest of your life, your body becomes a yoyo.

I created my own diet and add small exercise routine.
reason is simple, eat much of same things slightly less
on plate, a bit healthier and back off on snacks but still have.
So when I reach weight, I maintain, by keeping an eye on weight.


I work out, but small, short routines, so I will continue them.
If your routine becomes to big, once you hit your goal, you will stop.
By doing small routine 20 minutes a day, easy to achieve, so more likely
you will continue with it.

I have done the up and down thing for 10 years, realizing, this will continue for ever.
thats harder on the body then being 15-20 lbs over weight.

Create new habits, adjust eating and exercise so its not work.
check weight daily, I do each morning, so you can keep in check
and not let the gain come back.

10 weeks 8.5 lbs or so, I figure another 5-6 weeks I will hit my goal of weight.
likely summer before I hit fitness level I want.
then object is to maintain by watching and  adjusting daily / weekly

[Wiz]

Happy to stick on my Greek Mediterranean Diet and fast twice a week or more.... and loose 1-3 kilos a month ..... without any effort. 

Apart from the Greek Salat, we also eat vegetarian Greek recipes and  I also eat a lot of Fish  and some  meat, plenty of Fresh Orange juice, fruit ..... and water!.

[Dogsoldier]

IMO these diets don't work, why one asks
Simple its a short term fix to lose weight and
when you stop and go back to eating even somewhat normal
you put the weight on. So unless you plan on eating like this
the rest of your life, your body becomes a yoyo.

I created my own diet and add small exercise routine.
reason is simple, eat much of same things slightly less
on plate, a bit healthier and back off on snacks but still have.
So when I reach weight, I maintain, by keeping an eye on weight.


I work out, but small, short routines, so I will continue them.
If your routine becomes to big, once you hit your goal, you will stop.
By doing small routine 20 minutes a day, easy to achieve, so more likely
you will continue with it.

I have done the up and down thing for 10 years, realizing, this will continue for ever.
thats harder on the body then being 15-20 lbs over weight.

Create new habits, adjust eating and exercise so its not work.
check weight daily, I do each morning, so you can keep in check
and not let the gain come back.

10 weeks 8.5 lbs or so, I figure another 5-6 weeks I will hit my goal of weight.
likely summer before I hit fitness level I want.
then object is to maintain by watching and  adjusting daily / weekly

I get where you’re coming from but it’s not just about weight loss.
From the little reading I have done so far, it seems there are other metabolic benefits that come from intermittent fasting.

[Danchik]

One common misconception is that IT or RE is a diet; it's not. It's a science-backed method going back to our ancestors the hunter/gatherers.

Humans were not designed to have constant access to food. Like sleep, where we recharge our energy levels, our cells regenerate better during times when we don't eat. (I'll get to sleep depravation later if anyone is interested as new science suggests that lack of sleep negatively affects the body in very serious ways)

It's not calorie restriction in as much as it's time restricted. Think of it as a window of eating. Early man would at times go days without eating because of lack of available resources.

Dude also had to be quick on his feet as well as in his head. Eat or be eaten was his motto and we wouldn't be the dominant species without this guy. There wasn't a Burger King on every corner, various supermarkets in the area, or a bevy of restaurants at his beck and call.

He was also diurnal and didn't have an iPhone to wake him up in the morning. He rose and slept according to the amount of sunlight only to get up and go hunting, a natural form of exercise. His metabolism worked while awake (like us) during this 12 hour period. Homey was a lean, mean fighting/hunting machine.

What happens to most humans now is a combination of eating outside that 12 hour window and the quality of the food digested (12 hrs is the maximum eating window, 8-9hr windows are even better as far as fuel/fat burning and endurance). So if you don't want to go strictly IT 16/8, stay within that 12 hr window. Keep in mind the longer you go without eating in a day the more efficient your liver is at burning fat.

Intermittent fasting as well and very similar to time restricted eating allows the body to go back and reset itself to its normal circadian rhythms and allows cells to relax and relaxed cells are better functioning cells.

It might be interesting to know that's where the term breakfast came from - to break one's fast in the morning after sleep.

What usually happens when we eat outside this 12hr window is our metabolism receives mixed signals and starts functioning improperly when it should be resting and revitalizing. Any time you put something (xenobiotic) in your body besides water the liver starts producing enzymes to metabolize it.

What was also interesting to learn was that most people think they eat within this 12 hr period when in fact research showed that most people eat inside a 15 hr window.

The science is basically this; the longer you go without eating the more efficient your liver becomes at burning fat to the point that it literally becomes a fat burning machine.

Studies have shown that if one simply cuts out saturated fats, refined carbs and sugar, a person will increase their lean muscle mass even without exercise if they stay within that window and they eat a healthy diet. With exercise lean muscle increases 2 fold or more depending.

Mixed with sufficient sleep and you are now functioning at close to optimum.

The main reason conventional "diets" fail is because IMO it restricts certain foods. Eat this, don't eat that and a person gets bored with the selection or has cravings he/she can't resist.

The beauty of IT/RE is that it allows you to eat pretty much what you want even though you should always eat a basic healthy diet of vegetables, lean meat, fruits, whole grains, etc.

You can just about eat constantly inside this window and not gain weight, but you'll find that your appetite will naturally decease. Drinking plenty of water will also suppress your appetite.

Because the signals the body sends to the brain are the same whether you're hungry or thirsty most people eat instead of satisfying their thirst and having some water.

I've been doing it for a couple of years, have exercise my entire life and eat a healthy array of foods. I have no problem downing a tub of ice cream, banana bread (I make my own), or any other sinful pleasure I desire once or twice a week if I want. My body simply burns it up even while I'm resting.

Other benefits: increase clarity of thought, more restful sleep, lower BMI, an incredible increase in energy, improved metabolism and IGF hormone levels which seriously reduces cancer growth, especially in women, and IMO IT/RE affects/slows the aging process.

It's worth repeating that you can vastly improve your health simply by cutting saturated fats, refined flour/sugar/carbs out of your diet. Remember that eating these types of foods spikes your insulin levels which in turn makes you want to eat more (insulin insensitivity).

As far as 5:2, there's no evidence as yet that it has the same benefits as IT or RE.
 

[Danchik]

Get your vitamin D.

Yes, all vitamins all important, but vitamin D deficiency is widespread, especially in people with darker pigmentation and those who live in colder climates. 

I'm sure some of you have read about vitamin D and the corona virus. People with low levels of vitamin D have a much higher susceptibility to respiratory illnesses including corona as vitamin D is well-known to strengthen the lungs.     

The sun is the best source, but if you live in a place with long winters, a vitamin D supplement is vital. Up to 70% of Americans are deficient and there are some studies out now that show that many people who had serious outcomes with covid - 19 had very low vitamin D levels.

It's a fat soluble vitamin that gets converted into a hormone through the blood.  Think about walking around without testosterone or estrogen. There are many vitamin D receptors through the body that do wonderful things for the body, especially the lungs when levels are normalized.

I supplement up to 5000 IU's 4-5 days a week during the winter here and drop it to 2-3 days in the summer. Too much can be toxic, so be careful because you'll increase your calcium and phosphorus levels (calcification).

4000 IU's is the RDA. If there's anything close to being a super vitamin, it's vitamin D.

[Wiz]

If I sit 2 hours in the Sun..... I get brown skin..... and My wife does not like Chockolates.... LOL

[Danchik]

Staying satiated is key when fasting.

Here's a list of foods that keep you satiated.

boiled or baked potatoes. can't get any better than this for satiation.

eggs - I usually eat them together with boiled potatoes as my first meal and can easily go 5-6 hours or more without eating again.

whole grains or high fiber foods - brown rice, oats (steel cut), bananas, avocados, oranges, beetroot, whole grain bread, legumes and carrots.

high protein - lean meat, fish, greek yogurt and soy lol

nuts - cashews, pistachios, almonds, walnuts, brazil nuts, and yes sunflower seeds. whole or in butter form.

sweet potatoes - I put this in a class by itself as it's probably the best food for satiation if you like them, I do.


I usually drink water 10 minutes before any meal except my first meal, because I've already hydrated enough beforehand, to suppress my appetite. I never drink while I'm eating for better digestion as fluids change ph levels in the digestive tract and I try to wait at least 2 hours after I eat before drinking anything again (the hardest thing for me to do).

There are more foods, but this makes up about 90% of what I usually eat daily minus the soy .

[Wiz]

I think I made clear that I follow a Mediterranean healthy diet.

Don't forget I was born in Greece and in our house no process food has place of any kind. Yes I do have all the necessary tools for fresh food and OJ etc.......

Thanks for all thwe advice