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How a Russian family lives in quarantine in the DPRK

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Manny:

--- Quote from: BillyB on May 02, 2020, 09:43:07 AM ---I can find millions of foreigners who prefer to live somewhere else. That's reality.

--- End quote ---

Those millions who prefer to live somewhere else mostly haven't been there. They are invalid to your point unless they went there then decided to remain elsewhere.

You're getting confused again.

The point is, for many people there, life isnt as bad as your media tells you it is. For many people, life is quite pleasant there. For you, this does not compute and this is why you are getting confused. For that to be true, you must admit your own prejudices were wrong and/or your media lies to you. And you dont want to.

You and Tex want me to tell you its a shithole, that everyone is hungry and eating cardboard, they despise the leader, are downtrodden, oppressed and controlled like 1984 and there's no infrastructure. Because I have demonstrated that's largely not true, you seek to discredit the messenger with whataboutisms and made up stuff.

BillyB:

--- Quote from: Manny on May 02, 2020, 10:08:46 AM ---Those millions who prefer to live somewhere else mostly haven't been there. They are invalid to your point unless they went there then decided to remain elsewhere.


--- End quote ---

People all over the world aren't stupid. They choose Western nations to live over North Korea for good reasons. Tell Kim Jong Un to remove restrictions on people to move out of the country and see if they stay or go somewhere else. People would vote with their feet if Kim Jong Un would allow them to.



--- Quote from: Manny on May 02, 2020, 10:08:46 AM ---You and Tex want me to tell you its a shithole, that everyone is hungry and eating cardboard, they despise the leader, are downtrodden, oppressed and controlled like 1984 and there's no infrastructure. Because I have demonstrated that's largely not true, you seek to discredit the messenger with whataboutisms and made up stuff.


--- End quote ---

I never said everybody is hungry. There's at least one fat person in N Korea. The capital is made to look modern even if some buildings don't get used for decades.



--- Quote from: Manny on May 02, 2020, 10:08:46 AM ---Because I have demonstrated that's largely not true, you seek to discredit the messenger with whataboutisms and made up stuff.


--- End quote ---

You've been allowed to see less than 1% of the country yet you imply what you saw represents 100% of the nation. Question why you weren't able to see the other 99% of the country. We have. Don't claim we're ignorant. Blame N Korea for failing to educate you about their nation.

Manny:

--- Quote from: BillyB on May 02, 2020, 10:21:31 AM ---You've been allowed to see less than 1% of the country yet you imply what you saw represents 100% of the nation.

--- End quote ---

Well, I've been all over Pyongyang over about five days, I spent one night in Nampo, I spent one night in Kaesong and went all over there too. They dont have you travelling around in a blindfold you know. You can see the world around you.

But nowhere did I say that what I saw represents 100% of the nation, you made that up. You're making a habit of that, Billy Moby2.

BillyB:

--- Quote from: Manny on May 02, 2020, 10:31:34 AM ---Well, I've been all over Pyongyang over about five days, I spent one night in Nampo, I spent one night in Kaesong and went all over there too. They dont have you travelling around in a blindfold you know. You can see the world around you.


--- End quote ---

That's less than 1% of the nation. You travelled the nice roads they wanted you to travel on. You seen the cities they wanted you to see. They were in control of your vacation.


--- Quote from: Manny on May 02, 2020, 10:31:34 AM ---But nowhere did I say that what I saw represents 100% of the nation, you made that up. You're making a habit of that, Billy Moby2.


--- End quote ---

When someone questions what the rest of the 99% of the country looks like, you tell them they are wrong as if you know but you're making stuff up. The only people that seen other parts of North Korea are hundreds of thousands of North Korean defectors who told their story yet you dismiss them.

Manny:

--- Quote from: BillyB on May 02, 2020, 10:37:14 AM ---
--- Quote from: Manny on May 02, 2020, 10:31:34 AM ---Well, I've been all over Pyongyang over about five days, I spent one night in Nampo, I spent one night in Kaesong and went all over there too. They dont have you travelling around in a blindfold you know. You can see the world around you.


--- End quote ---

That's less than 1% of the nation. You travelled the nice roads they wanted you to travel on. You seen the cities they wanted you to see. They were in control of your vacation.

--- End quote ---

Much of the rest of the nation is sparsely occupied you know. There's only 25m people and over 10% of them live in Pyongyang. Take out the main cities and there's only farmers left really.

If I visit FL or NY, am I unqualified to comment on the US and my observations less valid because I haven't visited rural Ohio or post hurricane blacks in New Orleans? Would you direct all your tourists away from Disneyland and Manhattan and tell them it isnt real unless they've visited the poor too? This thinking cropped up when I first went to China as well. I reported on a nice area I stayed in and people started foaming at the mouth like you are doing here. 


--- Quote from: Manny on October 22, 2014, 03:27:51 PM ---Slumba's last link documents poor travellers who stay in hostels and eat street food. Most people don't want to exist on $7 a day when travelling. I know I don't.


--- Quote ---When I was in Shanghai a few years ago I was able to see the living quarters for workers at Baoshan steelworks
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---It's not difficult to find the poorer side of Shanghai or Dongguan you just need someone who speaks the language and knows the landscape.
--- End quote ---


--- Quote ---What %age of the Chinese population, would you say has access to a lifestyle like the one you enjoyed while there?
--- End quote ---

People seem to be obsessing about the plight of those at the bottom of society. One wouldnt go to the US and obsess about post-hurricane blacks living standards, or the plight of the homeless under London's bridges. Yes, the bloke who made my iphone might make a dollar a day, but I have no burning desire to go and meet him.

I don't really get those who think you should go to a place, seek out the bottom of society and attempt to feel their struggle. Is this some kind of western guilt?  ???


--- End quote ---

Is this an American thing?

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