How many people died in China of the coronavirus?

[Texan77]

No one seems to really know?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/wuhan-covid-19-deaths-may-be-in-tens-of-thousands-data-on-cremations-show/ar-BB11T0Vb

[BillyB]

China probably doesn't know because they weren't too concerned about accurate info. They wanted to look good in front of the world. Their 3300 deaths is nothing for a population of 1.4 billion. Certainly their hospitals wouldn't be overloaded based on the low numbers they report.

Boris Johnson is furious with China. UK's experts think the numbers can be as much as 40 times higher which would easily put China's death toll over a hundred thousand. He may cancel deals with China that include Huawei. UK, like other nations will pay a huge price in lives and ruined economies due to China's negligence and lies. I'm not surprised by what a Communist government is capable of. If you read the comments after the article, you will see many posters angry at China and probably will avoid their products.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/boris-johnsons-government-reportedly-furious-075257081.html

[LoyalMan]

If you believe in ChiNazi more than once after so many evidences exposed to you, it is your own fault.

The other possibility is - you have determined to be another new ChiNazi lackey.

[Wiz]

[AvHdB]

I have also wondered what the actual number is. Studying the mmnrrs that Wiz posted and BillyB has noted there is one fact. The actual numbers start on Kaniary 10th of this year. The Wuhan virus was certainly present in China maybe even months before.

[AvHdB]

Note to self: Do not post until 2nd cup of coffee! My excuses.    

[Manny]

.The Wuhan Coronavirus was certainly present in China maybe even months before.

I believe this is the case and this is overlooked.

If that is the case it won’t have stayed in China.

I’ve heard so many reports of people in the UK who had a very bad flu like illness around November/December last year. I had it, and it can’t have been regular flu because I get flu shots.

It may be the case it didn’t originate in Wuhan at all.

[andrewfi]

There are now documented cases from November outside of China. One of them, in France, dates back to before Patient One in Wuhan.

This suggests that there was community spread before November. The earliest case in France suggests that it was spreading quietly there in October or earlier.

This doesn't mean that it did not start in China but it does mean that the stories attributed to China are not congruent with reality.

Incidentally, the French case pushed back the Chinese timeline back before the first warning from US intelligence gathering. That warning referenced a cluster of unusual pneumonia cases originating in Nepal but manifesting in, as I recall, Hubei.

This stuff makes the idea of the virus originating in Wuhan much less likely. It also makes it much harder to support the idea of blaming China and accusing them of a cover up much less credible. After all, what about the French, Americans, Italians etc? Were they covering up?

[Texan77]

There are now documented cases from November outside of China. One of them, in France, dates back to before Patient One in Wuhan.

This suggests that there was community spread before November. The earliest case in France suggests that it was spreading quietly there in October or earlier.

This doesn't mean that it did not start in China but it does mean that the stories attributed to China are not congruent with reality.

This virus goes from one case to over running the city in about 6 weeks. It is not likely it was around from very long. One school child would infect hundreds in less than a week without social distancing. France did not get over run with the virus until many weeks after Wuhan infections well established.

[andrewfi]

Texan, there's always stuff you can learn. Here's something. A virus can hang around for quite a while as long as people aren't dying. The length of time it takes for a virus to hit exponential growth will depend upon the characteristics of the virus. It takes about 1000 cases of covid-19 for one person to  die. Most people have very mild symptoms or none at all.

In order for the effect you mention to happen, there needs to be a significant population of quietly infected people. That's why the curves you see start flat but do not go into explosive growth until the number of infections reaches a critical number.

That French case will not be the only one there. There will be others but either the people never went to the doctor, never got significant symptoms, or, just as happened in the USA and China, the people who were seriously ill were not thought to have anything unusual wrong with them unsually severe flu or unusual pneumonia.

Epidemics start out slowly, then go very fast.

[d672]

 But Wuhan was the first place where the virus reached an epidemic state. If the virus originated somewhere else wouldn't that place be the first to reach that point?

[Texan77]

Texan, there's always stuff you can learn. Here's something. A virus can hang around for quite a while as long as people aren't dying. The length of time it takes for a virus to hit exponential growth will depend upon the characteristics of the virus. It takes about 1000 cases of covid-19 for one person to  die. Most people have very mild symptoms or none at all.

This disease is too infectious. We had one person with this virus but showing no symptoms show up for a church choir practice for two hours and then had 50 plus infections for that one meeting. This virus did not hang around doing nothing for months.

New York kept children in school for one extra week. Look at what happened there.

[Manny]

But Wuhan was the first place where the virus reached an epidemic state. If the virus originated somewhere else wouldn't that place be the first to reach that point?

I suppose that’d depend on how it occurred.

I read what Andrew referenced about the French bloke. It came about as they’d frozen his samples. That guy hadn’t been to China, but had been to Algeria or Liberia or somewhere, which may not be relevant.

If it was in Europe the back end of last year, that’d support the many people here who think they had it in December. It would also mean its less likely it came from China.

[Wiz]

Morning Campers......
Here is the top list of Coronavirus today at 5 45 GMT

MANNY

Have you read this post of mine?

It is very clear that the US Helped to finance the research in Wuhan.... then left and later last October sent the army Athletes and spreaded around.... so China to be accused... for this Pandemic.

Why wasting your time....with all the conspiracy theories......to justify the USELS Oaf and gangster of the white house?

Just look the nymber to know who fcuked Royaly!

That is what I posted earlier date:

WOW! You found one American doctor that disagrees with Dr. Fauci and millions of other American doctors.

Are you aware that Dr Fauci in 2015 has approved a huge finance package for the Wuhan Bio search Lab, where the USA and China together were searching for various viruses because the USA had shut down its Bio Lab in... Hondric (not sure of the spelling ) because it was leaking!

Check the US Magazine "Economist Intelligence Unit  February 2019" to find the article!

That explains why both Trump and China are blaming each other..... you were both at it creating bioweapons ....It appears China managed to control the spread of the virus and now is working in almost full capacity. The US, on the other hand, is counting the dead bodies, because of your incompetent Mafia Boss.

America been averaging 2000 coronavirus deaths a day for the last 3 weeks. That makes it the number 1 killer of Americans daily by far. Just think if we didn't take any action.

YOU SAID IT!

[andrewfi]

Texan77, there you go taking a single specific point and extrapolating to make a general case - rarely a good way to work when it comes to thought! Try it the other way round for a more informative picture.

We know that in general, through the course of an infection with Coronavirus, that a single person will infect just 3 people. Now, in epidemiological terms, that's quite high, but in terms of absolute numbers it's pretty small.

Given that we now know that most people who are infected never know they had been infected and that, in general, we need about 1000 cases to produce a single death then a piece of paper and help with the counting, you can understand why a virus, in this case Coronavirus, can remain hidden for so long.

If you still don't get it, go look at the graphs on https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries look at the curves, see how flat they are for quite some time and remember that these only start after we already knew the virus was present in these countries! Stretch the French line back to November - now, there's the picture!

[Texan77]

It only takes one person to get into a crowd and the number go crazy. School, funeral, church, marti gra, wedding, sport event, cruise ship, air port and three to one number do not work out and most of the time the number can not be traced. Before social distancing country after country went from first infection to hospitals being over whelm in about 6 weeks.

[Wiz]

I noticed that some countries are still going up in numbers!

USA of course is going for Gold Medal........where ......

take a look at the numbers between Spain, Russia and the UK ...
followed by Italy, Brazil and France!!

fighting for 2-3 place depending which numbers you compare.

 

[AvHdB]

It really does not matter which set of numbers you use, China's gift is a percentage 'game'. The statistics being what they are; say that from the people who contract the virus a percentage will need to be in the hospital and be discharged or they will die. That is why the number of infected people (new cases) and is that number increasing or decreasing is most important.

China, North Korea and China are defying the number of dead. My guess this is being done out of necessity for the local population and the maintenance of order. In Western Europe and the United is a fairly free press. That simply does not exist in the countries noted above.

One can speculate or make excuses but the numbers and the virus does not listen. One can find pages of conspiracy theories by every whack job with an agenda. If that is your way to kill time not a problem.

Just look at the numbers and stay safe.

[Wiz]

It really does not matter which set of numbers you use, China's gift is a percentage 'game'. The statistics being what they are; say that from the people who contract the virus a percentage will need to be in the hospital and be discharged or they will die. That is why the number of infected people (new cases) and is that number increasing or decreasing is most important.

China, North Korea and China are defying the number of dead. My guess this is being done out of necessity for the local population and the maintenance of order. In Western Europe and the United is a fairly free press. That simply does not exist in the countries noted above.

One can speculate or make excuses but the numbers and the virus does not listen. One can find pages of conspiracy theories by every whack job with an agenda. If that is your way to kill time not a problem.

Just look at the numbers and stay safe.

It take me no more than 2 minutes to copy and post those numbers...... neither I believe they are completely 100 % accurate..... I take a look when I am having a drink after my siesta!

I have no real interest.......just for fun.

[andrewfi]

Not just China and Vietnam. That's just what you've been fed and chose to believe.

Let's put it this way, do you really think that the Chinese would've done what they did in Hubei province and then closed everything up if there tens, or hundreds, of thousands of new cases? That makes no sense on many levels.

You're making excuses for the USA, UK, Italy, Spain, France, Brasil and others who did not take the requisite steps to control infection.