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Author Topic: Coronavirus  (Read 48188 times)

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Online BillyB

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2020, 03:18:07 PM »

Hospital will probably be a bunch of big canvas tent buildings connected together. 10 day construction is not enough time to do a concrete or wood building.
"Billy, go read. You don't need to be an 'expert' to read. Billy, again read stuff. Even if this disease ends up being serious, in a few months it will be gone. That's how these things work." quote by forum epidemic and virology expert Andrewfi Jan 28, 2020 on the coronavirus

Offline Manny

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2020, 05:07:03 PM »

Hospital will probably be a bunch of big canvas tent buildings connected together. 10 day construction is not enough time to do a concrete or wood building.

If you read the linked article you'd know.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<<

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Online d672

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2020, 05:25:29 PM »
 Yeah, they said they are bringing a bunch of prefabbed buildings in. Pretty much all they have to do is level off an area and dropped them off and link them together. I can see it being doable in 10 days. They set up work camps out in the wilderness up here in Canada like that all the time


Online BillyB

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2020, 07:27:20 PM »

Hospital will probably be a bunch of big canvas tent buildings connected together. 10 day construction is not enough time to do a concrete or wood building.

If you read the linked article you'd know.

The person who wrote the article probably doesn't know about half the things he wrote. He called excavators "diggers" and he said a huge hospital will be built. It's not going to be a tall building, just one story.

Yeah, they said they are bringing a bunch of prefabbed buildings in. Pretty much all they have to do is level off an area and dropped them off and link them together. I can see it being doable in 10 days. They set up work camps out in the wilderness up here in Canada like that all the time

Prefab buildings are doable. Truck in prefabbed walls or even mobile homes. I watch the video and photos after Manny convinced me to take a look. It's raining and muddy. Hard to build on mud. There's no water, sewer, gas, or storm pipes being laid in the ground. Rain water coming off the roofs will flood the area. Utilities will have to be above ground using water tanks, portable generators and bathrooms.

The Chinese army should have mobile hospitals that are quick to set up. They can fly those shelters in and set them up quick.
"Billy, go read. You don't need to be an 'expert' to read. Billy, again read stuff. Even if this disease ends up being serious, in a few months it will be gone. That's how these things work." quote by forum epidemic and virology expert Andrewfi Jan 28, 2020 on the coronavirus

Online d672

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2020, 11:01:18 PM »
Waddya made of sugar Billy? Scared of a little drizzle? Lol  That's not muddy there, look on the video at about the 1 minute mark and you will see the trackhoes dump dirt out of their buckets and it's pouring out, not coming out in clumps like muddy dirt would do. And before that in the video they show dump trucks coming in one area and dumping a lighter colored soil for bulldozers to spread out.  probably a sand/gravel mix if I were to guess. pack that down and that would stop the site from getting muddy.

 And the portable units  here have self contained sewer systems for each building and fresh water tanks just like RV's would have so all you need are trucks to come in and extract or add to them. Gas is taken care of with propane tanks. No need to plumb any of that in. Hook them up to a generator and you are set to go. you want bathrooms? get one unit that is all toilet stalls. want offices? get a unit with just offices. Want just rooms for beds they make those too, and a mix of anything of those you want. Something quick and easy to set up and take away once you are done with them. With all the oilfield and mining activity in the middle of nowhere around here these units are quite common and I'm sure China would have the same type if units there.

Online BillyB

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2020, 11:57:27 PM »
Waddya made of sugar Billy? Scared of a little drizzle? Lol  That's not muddy there, look on the video at about the 1 minute mark and you will see the trackhoes dump dirt out of their buckets and it's pouring out, not coming out in clumps like muddy dirt would do.


Yeah I'm scared of rain. I do earthwork and utilities for a living. Rain turns good dirt into bad. It liquifies it and although it doesn't look like soup, if it's over optimum on moisture content, you can't compact it into a solid and build on it. Working in rain gets very expensive since liquified dirt has to be removed off the site or takes weeks to dry up. Costs go up, production goes down.

I seen photos where the road is wet and a guy is holding an umbrella. Being winter the ground is already saturated.  It's better to load the dirt with an excavator and truck it to it's destination. The excavators that are bailing back the dirt have to do so because wheeled vehicles can't travel through mud. Ideally they need to get rid of most of those excavators and use more dozers since dozers are better to move dirt long distances over excavators. Articulated off road trucks and scrapers are great for moving dirt long distances too but they have wheels and aren't being used which tells me it's to slippery for wheeled vehicles.

With what they have, it's best to have the dozers make a road or two down the middle of that unsuitable soil and top the road off with gravel. Then have the dump trucks drive down the road and get loaded by the excavators. Better to touch the dirt once and get it off the job than throw it around 100 times to get it off the job.

And the portable units  here have self contained sewer systems for each building and fresh water tanks just like RV's would have so all you need are trucks to come in and extract or add to them. Gas is taken care of with propane tanks. No need to plumb any of that in. Hook them up to a generator and you are set to go. you want bathrooms? get one unit that is all toilet stalls. want offices? get a unit with just offices. Want just rooms for beds they make those too, and a mix of anything of those you want. Something quick and easy to set up and take away once you are done with them. With all the oilfield and mining activity in the middle of nowhere around here these units are quite common and I'm sure China would have the same type if units there.

China has an army of people to move sewer, water, and gas liters at a time. Also move diesel to fill up the generators. Overall costs isn't going to be too bad since the government probably isn't going to pay them much but they'll have great medical coverage should they pick up a virus.
"Billy, go read. You don't need to be an 'expert' to read. Billy, again read stuff. Even if this disease ends up being serious, in a few months it will be gone. That's how these things work." quote by forum epidemic and virology expert Andrewfi Jan 28, 2020 on the coronavirus

Online d672

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2020, 12:29:44 AM »
 I get what you're saying about wet conditions but like I said the way the dirt is pouring out of the trackhoe buckets it can't be too wet. If damp it would be falling out in clumps or if saturated it would be like mud pouring out. its not doing either of those. If it can pour out in a fine texture like that you should be able to drive a wheeled unit on to that site. It doesn't look to me like they are actually removing any dirt there, just moving it around like they are trying to level it off and have the dozers in between to smooth it out. But it's hard to say exactly what they are doing there with only a couple minutes of video. The only dump truck action I saw was them bringing that light colored soil in that the dozers are leveling off in those other couple areas on the edge of the site, not taking any away. I agree with you though about having more dozers there instead, it would make things quicker. 

Offline Manny

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #32 on: January 27, 2020, 07:04:14 AM »
China has extended the new year holiday. Most firms and shops have been told to stay closed till February 3rd. People have been told to stay home too.

Typical Chinese, I just saw on WeChat someone I know in Guangzhou posted a photo of the local Starbucks heaving with people.  (:)
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<<

"He wants to build a wall to keep the Mexicans out. He reckons that's a great idea. The Chinese built a wall centuries ago - there ain't many Mexicans over there." ~ Kevin Bloody Wilson

Offline msmoby

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #33 on: January 27, 2020, 07:09:55 AM »
China has extended the new year holiday. Most firms and shops have been told to stay closed till February 3rd. People have been told to stay home too.

Typical Chinese, I just saw on WeChat someone I know in Guangzhou posted a photo of the local Starbucks heaving with people.  (:)


SC is on her way to Thailand and lots of Chinese who arrived just before the travel restrictions

I moved her from a Condo - where Chinese will be there in throngs -  to a house on her own ....   I have NO idea where the Chinese go when in Thailand  - other than staying in hotels and by the pool  - as they are never on the beach or swimming in the sea.

I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Online BillyB

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #34 on: January 27, 2020, 08:50:27 AM »
I get what you're saying about wet conditions but like I said the way the dirt is pouring out of the trackhoe buckets it can't be too wet. If damp it would be falling out in clumps or if saturated it would be like mud pouring out. its not doing either of those. If it can pour out in a fine texture like that you should be able to drive a wheeled unit on to that site. It doesn't look to me like they are actually removing any dirt there, just moving it around like they are trying to level it off and have the dozers in between to smooth it out. But it's hard to say exactly what they are doing there with only a couple minutes of video. The only dump truck action I saw was them bringing that light colored soil in that the dozers are leveling off in those other couple areas on the edge of the site, not taking any away. I agree with you though about having more dozers there instead, it would make things quicker.

It could be the excavator is digging into a high spot where dry dirt is located under the upper layer of dirt that's been saturated by winter rain. If the dirt is dry, wheeled construction equipment can be used which gets thing done faster. If the dirt is too wet, tracked vehicles need to be used, the wet dirt needs to be removed, hauled off or set aside before placing down a gravel pad. Also if the dirt on top is topsoil or have too many organics in it which is highly likely based of the color, even if dry, it's not structural material and shouldn't be built on. Hopefully the Chinese put in a time lapse camera so we can see the process from the beginning to the end.
"Billy, go read. You don't need to be an 'expert' to read. Billy, again read stuff. Even if this disease ends up being serious, in a few months it will be gone. That's how these things work." quote by forum epidemic and virology expert Andrewfi Jan 28, 2020 on the coronavirus

Offline Manny

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #35 on: January 27, 2020, 10:58:57 AM »
I have NO idea where the Chinese go when in Thailand  - other than staying in hotels and by the pool  - as they are never on the beach or swimming in the sea.

Chinese generally dont do swimming or sun. They sit in the shade by the pool prodding their phones mostly.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<<

"He wants to build a wall to keep the Mexicans out. He reckons that's a great idea. The Chinese built a wall centuries ago - there ain't many Mexicans over there." ~ Kevin Bloody Wilson

Offline msmoby

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #36 on: January 27, 2020, 12:52:41 PM »

Masks greatly reduces chances you'll get the virus because they are successful in stopping most of the droplets in the air that carry the virus. Unfortunately masks do not stop the virus 100%. Hazmat suits will stop the virus.

Seems like the past couple of decades, most of the superbugs in humans and birds that can kill large portions of humanity are coming out of China. Whatever they are doing in test labs, they need better containment.

NO, BillyB ..

Masks are only effective, if changed regularly and worn correctly

Useless, if on a plane on a long haul flight





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Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

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Offline dcguyusa

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2020, 05:48:52 PM »
China has extended the new year holiday. Most firms and shops have been told to stay closed till February 3rd. People have been told to stay home too.

Typical Chinese, I just saw on WeChat someone I know in Guangzhou posted a photo of the local Starbucks heaving with people.  (:)


SC is on her way to Thailand and lots of Chinese who arrived just before the travel restrictions

I moved her from a Condo - where Chinese will be there in throngs -  to a house on her own ....   I have NO idea where the Chinese go when in Thailand  - other than staying in hotels and by the pool  - as they are never on the beach or swimming in the sea.

Perhaps to visit the Buddhist temples in places like Bangkok and Chiang Mai? 
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Offline cufflinks

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2020, 09:20:18 PM »

Online BillyB

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #39 on: January 27, 2020, 09:47:35 PM »

International companies in are closing and bringing expats back home. By government order, casino staff must wear masks and scan temperature on guests. The only good thing that will come out of this is less snakes will be eaten.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/honda-evacuates-starbucks-stores-shut-virus-impact-on-business/ar-BBZm23Q?ocid=spartanntp
"Billy, go read. You don't need to be an 'expert' to read. Billy, again read stuff. Even if this disease ends up being serious, in a few months it will be gone. That's how these things work." quote by forum epidemic and virology expert Andrewfi Jan 28, 2020 on the coronavirus

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2020, 04:19:31 AM »
We stopped taking registrations from China as a precautionary measure and any Chinese members must now wear a mask whilst chatting, failing to do so will result in a suspension.

Some may say it is a little harsh but I have read that it can be transmitted electronically  :ROFL:
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2020, 04:40:37 AM »
It does not matter what the conditions are. They need to get the thing made. It does not have to be perfect, it does not have to last. It does have to be ready to treat possibly thousands of people very quickly
IIRC it will have 1000 beds when opened. That's a lot. A bit of mud isn't what these guys are thinking about right now.
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2020, 04:43:20 AM »

Perhaps to visit the Buddhist temples in places like Bangkok and Chiang Mai?

Nope.. the world's  largest wooden temple is close by ... they seem to favour hotels inland  - away from the sea ?
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Online BillyB

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2020, 08:28:18 AM »

A bit of mud isn't what these guys are thinking about right now.


The guys that built the Leaning Tower of Pisa didn't think about what building on non structural material will do to their structure. The Chinese don't want to make the news that their building is sinking and cracking and is a danger to the people they are trying to save.

Mud has to be removed to build a structure and improve the speed of the rest of the construction that has to happen. Can't bring in cement and other delivery trucks to build the building until the mud is out of the way and they have a solid surface to drive on. The Chinese probably reads this forum. They taken my advice to get rid of most excavators and bring in more dozers and trucks to move dirt. Time lapse video below also show them placing vapor barrier down, reinforcement bar and pouring a slab about 18 inches or close to 40cm thick. That slab is thick and will be strong enough to support walls since excavations for footings didn't happen.

"Billy, go read. You don't need to be an 'expert' to read. Billy, again read stuff. Even if this disease ends up being serious, in a few months it will be gone. That's how these things work." quote by forum epidemic and virology expert Andrewfi Jan 28, 2020 on the coronavirus

Online yankee

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2020, 10:06:19 AM »
I have NO idea where the Chinese go when in Thailand  - other than staying in hotels and by the pool  - as they are never on the beach or swimming in the sea.

Chinese generally dont do swimming or sun. They sit in the shade by the pool prodding their phones mostly.

Could they be doing the same as the Japanese do when in Thailand? :party0011:
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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2020, 11:55:51 AM »
Billy, go do the reading. They are building a temporary structure for an immediate need. They are not building a cathedral bell tower destined to last generations or, as it turned out, centuries.

You're chasing your tail by not being able to understand the needs of the 'client' and only seeing the task from your own, somewhat limited, perspective.

Given what you've written before, I'd bet lots of imaginary Internet pounds that you do the same in your work and life.

If those prefab buildings last longer than a year it'll be a bonus. Whatever survives those few months will then be razed to the ground to avoid any possibility of contamination in the future.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Manny

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2020, 12:44:10 PM »
I have NO idea where the Chinese go when in Thailand  - other than staying in hotels and by the pool  - as they are never on the beach or swimming in the sea.

Chinese generally dont do swimming or sun. They sit in the shade by the pool prodding their phones mostly.

Could they be doing the same as the Japanese do when in Thailand? :party0011:

What's that? Instagramming photos of food while holding up two fingers in a V sign?
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<<

"He wants to build a wall to keep the Mexicans out. He reckons that's a great idea. The Chinese built a wall centuries ago - there ain't many Mexicans over there." ~ Kevin Bloody Wilson

Online BillyB

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2020, 12:47:58 PM »
Billy, go do the reading. They are building a temporary structure for an immediate need. They are not building a cathedral bell tower destined to last generations or, as it turned out, centuries.

You're chasing your tail by not being able to understand the needs of the 'client' and only seeing the task from your own, somewhat limited, perspective.


We have Andrew here who is an expert in best construction practices and who has a complete understanding of the situation and the clients needs which is a need for a temporary building that may last a few weeks or months. Have you actually talked to the authorities and medical experts in China to understand the situation and their needs or are you making stuff up....again?

If those prefab buildings last longer than a year it'll be a bonus. Whatever survives those few months will then be razed to the ground to avoid any possibility of contamination in the future.


More BS...again. You have no idea when the epidemic will end. You have no idea how long the hospital will be needed to treat those who were infected. You have no idea if the victims medical problems from this virus will last for years or for life. You have no idea when or if a vaccine and/or anti viral medicine will be discovered. Nobody knows when this will end...but you want people to believe you know a temporary building is need for only a few months. The hospital built quickly in 2003 for SARS was needed for years after the virus broke out and was finally demoed in 2010.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2011-03/28/content_12234394.htm

That reinforced concrete slab they poured on compacted imported structural fill can last 1000 years. The Chinese aren't going cheap on the foundation for the hospital.

"Billy, go read. You don't need to be an 'expert' to read. Billy, again read stuff. Even if this disease ends up being serious, in a few months it will be gone. That's how these things work." quote by forum epidemic and virology expert Andrewfi Jan 28, 2020 on the coronavirus

Online BillyB

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2020, 12:49:15 PM »

Billy, go do the reading. They are building a temporary structure for an immediate need. They are not building a cathedral bell tower destined to last generations or, as it turned out, centuries.

You're chasing your tail by not being able to understand the needs of the 'client' and only seeing the task from your own, somewhat limited, perspective.


We have Andrew here who is an expert in best construction practices and who has a complete understanding of the situation and the clients needs which is a need for a temporary building that may last a few weeks or months. Have you actually talked to the authorities and medical experts in China to understand the situation and their needs or are you making stuff up....again?

If those prefab buildings last longer than a year it'll be a bonus. Whatever survives those few months will then be razed to the ground to avoid any possibility of contamination in the future.


More BS...again. You have no idea when the epidemic will end. You have no idea how long the hospital will be needed to treat those who are infected. You have no idea if the victims medical problems from this virus will last for years or for life. You have no idea when or if a vaccine and/or anti viral medicine will be discovered. Nobody knows when this will end...but you want people to believe you know a temporary building is need for only a few months. The hospital built quickly in 2003 for SARS was needed for years after the virus broke out and was finally demoed in 2010.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/cndy/2011-03/28/content_12234394.htm

That reinforced concrete slab they poured on compacted imported structural fill can last 1000 years. The Chinese aren't going cheap on the foundation for the hospital.
"Billy, go read. You don't need to be an 'expert' to read. Billy, again read stuff. Even if this disease ends up being serious, in a few months it will be gone. That's how these things work." quote by forum epidemic and virology expert Andrewfi Jan 28, 2020 on the coronavirus

Online andrewfi

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Re: Coronavirus
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2020, 01:32:13 PM »
Billy, go read. You don't need to be an 'expert' to read.

Billy, again read stuff. Even if this disease ends up being serious, in a few months it will be gone. That's how these things work.

For your education and to give context, at the end of WW1we had a global pandemic of Spanish flu. It lasted globally for almost 3 years but only a few weeks in any single area (some areas were revisited by subsequent waves that may not have been the same disease given that survivors gained immunity).

China has competent epidemiologists and planners. They are not planning permanent buildings for a very good reason - they know it isn't necessary but they also know they need to use temporary prefabricated buildings to meet immediate needs.

So you honestly, hand on heart, think that anyone gives two hoots about 'best practice' in this situation? There's an epidemic going on. Hospital beds and treatment resources are needed last week.

In life and business we need to be able to understand challenges well enough to be able to set priorities. You get bogged down in irrelevancies based upon poor knowledge and inability to see a larger picture.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!