Speculation About Putin and Russia.

[LoyalMan]

The second biggest scammer on earth is Putin - He stole Russian people US$80 billion and yet was "elected" as the Russian president!

The first biggest scammer is China Commie - they claim from the first day the wealth are enjoyed equally among every person, but the China commie become the wealthiest group in China. Non-commie people have no social welfare, no free medical care, no freedom of speech, no clean food, no clean milk, no real vaccine, no ....., nothing, etc.

Communists have become the Monopoly in everything.

[Manny]

The second biggest scammer on earth is Putin - He stole Russian people US$80 billion and yet was "elected" as the Russian president!

Maybe you will enlighten us some more about this allegation?

[Steveboy]

Maybe the UK will be a communist country from next weekend..

[LoyalMan]

The second biggest scammer on earth is Putin - He stole Russian people US$80 billion and yet was "elected" as the Russian president!

Maybe you will enlighten us some more about this allegation?

Many years ago, the US tank driver Manning in Iraq leaked a classified document to WikiLeak.  This document included some highest level secrets about Russia and China.

Some Russian journalists tried to report the Putin related part to the public.  The outcome is: many journalists died unexpectedly.

The later story is very well known about Manning and WikiLeak.

If you are retired and have plenty of time, you may be able to find out them on WikiLeak.
https://www.wikileaks.org/

WikiLeak's amount of documents are like mountain. I guess you need a professional journalist friend to help you.

[LoyalMan]

US$80 billion is an estimation done by a person who worked in finance field in Russia.  This amount may be lower or higher.

You know the famous Magnitsky Act of USA.

All the evidence points to a very corrupted and rich Putin.

[andrewfi]

What 'evidence' points to a very corrupted and rich Putin?

Please share something with us. A taster, a tidbit, an amuse-bouche!

To help you, the death rate for journalists in Russia is actually lower than the general population in the country.

The Magnitsky Act is not about proof of any fantasy claims about Putin's corruption.

So, go on, give it a shot.

Clearly, given your other posts, you inhabit some kind of parallel universe; a world formed largely in your own mind. As a curious person, I am interested to see how you manage to make the real world and your fantasies intersect!

[LoyalMan]

What 'evidence' points to a very corrupted and rich Putin?

Please share something with us. A taster, a tidbit, an amuse-bouche!

To help you, the death rate for journalists in Russia is actually lower than the general population in the country.

The Magnitsky Act is not about proof of any fantasy claims about Putin's corruption.

So, go on, give it a shot.

Clearly, given your other posts, you inhabit some kind of parallel universe; a world formed largely in your own mind. As a curious person, I am interested to see how you manage to make the real world and your fantasies intersect!

Death rate is not a horizontal line with respect to time, Man.  And from where you get the data? From Putin goverment?!?    Your world is a steady one, not a dynamic one.  When we talk about rate, it carry a time variable 


Evidence from the WikiLeak please and many other sources.  I have no responsibility to read it for you just because you don't trust me. 

Learn this Law-
The degree of Cruelty of a Ruler is directly proportional to the illegal Wealth he has robbed.

Try to apply it to any available case which you know.

[2tallbill]

What 'evidence' points to a very corrupted and rich Putin?

Please share something with us. A taster, a tidbit, an amuse-bouche!

The RUAdvent&Putinapologist forum doesn't allow such posts. It's required to
answer pro Kremlin questions in order to prove you aren't a robot and join here.

I could post 900 different articles and they would all be pooh-poohed as
anti Russian propaganda. The Western media has a serious anti-Russian
bias since some time shortly after the Hillary Russian reset. Everybody
knows that's true.

Having said that, everyone especially Russians know that their is corruption
in Russia. Putin is part of that and everyone knows that as well. ASK any Russian
if they think Putin is rich and 100% will say yes he is. 0% will say that he got rich
by investing his paltry Presidential salary. 


How rich is Vladimir Putin?
https://money.cnn.com/2018/03/14/news/putin-wealth-russia-election/index.html


No one knows Putin's exact net worth, but many speculate he's the wealthiest person on the planet — his $1 billion palace and $500 million yacht explain why
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-putin-spends-his-mysterious-fortune-2017-6


How Much Is Vladimir Putin Actually Worth?
It depends who you ask.
https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/money-and-power/a14480615/vladimir-putin-net-worth/


Here is a far more skeptical article
Are ‘Putin’s Billions’ a Myth?
https://www.polygraph.info/a/putin-wealth-aslund-propaganda-fact-check/29940697.html


The Billionaire President
https://harvardpolitics.com/covers/the-billionaire-president-2/


Putin Means Money
Nov 22, 2019 NINA L. KHRUSHCHEVA
While Russian President Vladimir Putin wants to be able to tout Russian achievements
in science and innovation, he also wants to enrich himself as much as possible. And,
as the security forces' recent raid on the Lebedev Physics Institute in Moscow showed,
if he has to choose, money comes first.
https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/putin-raid-on-lebedev-physics-institute-by-nina-l-khrushcheva-2019-11


Vladimir Putin’s official net worth is comically modest
https://qz.com/1594989/vladimir-putins-financial-disclosure-claims-little-wealth/


What is Russian President Vladimir Putin’s net worth?
https://www.foxbusiness.com/features/what-is-russian-president-vladimir-putins-net-worth

[andrewfi]

Bill, nothing in those links amounts to 'evidence'. There's plenty of stories, plenty of propaganda, plenty of opinions presented as fact, but one thing is missing. There's no factual support for any of that silliness.

I'd be interested to see any evidence of the claims you make, I have no dog in the fight and I am always interested in learning, so go on, share some factual evidence to support your 'opinion'.

I know that you are USAian and as such it has become hard to think, but I am sure that as a person who considers himself to be not entirely stupid, you know the difference between fact and fantasy. So, go on, give it a shot.

I am absolutely certain that Manny and the other moderators NEVER delete posts that contain fact, that are presented honestly and that contain ideas that are not congruent with those of the moderators. As you well know, the moderators are men of differing views so you know that you are inventing stuff at the same time as you are belittling the guys who look after these forums.

[2tallbill]

I know that you are USAian and as such it has become hard to think, but I am sure that as a person who considers himself to be not entirely stupid, you know the difference between fact and fantasy. So, go on, give it a shot.

Andy,

I don't have the time to play Andy games today.

If you can't accept 8 different articles written by different people and
publishers from different countries as evidence then you have a threshold
for evidence that's too high. Go play Andy games with people who aren't
as busy as I am.

[Manny]

The RUAdvent&Putinapologist forum doesn't allow such posts.

Yet here you are on a topic where we did. Funny how you make something up and put it on a topic that directly contravenes your statement. You contradicted yourself.

Bill, nothing in those links amounts to 'evidence'. There's plenty of stories, plenty of propaganda, plenty of opinions presented as fact, but one thing is missing. There's no factual support for any of that silliness.

I'd be interested to see any evidence of the claims you make, I have no dog in the fight and I am always interested in learning, so go on, share some factual evidence to support your 'opinion'.

What he said.

Bill, that thinking people don't accept a few western media articles full of speculation and no facts doesn't make us have:

a threshold for evidence that's too high.

It makes us simply people who can tell the difference between facts and speculation. You presented no facts, then say our threshold for facts is too high. Ergo, any facts or proof at all is a threshold too high? Which means we should accept speculation as fact? That may work over the pond, (MAGA etc, et al) but here in the real world, we like some good old facts before we make our mind up.

Opinions are not evidence. I am sure you can grasp that even if LoyalMan can't.

[2tallbill]

Yet here you are on a topic where we did. Funny how you make something up and put it on a topic that directly contravenes your statement. You contradicted yourself.

Opinions are not evidence. I am sure you can grasp that even if LoyalMan can't.

1. The articles I posted were news articles not opinions. Do you need help
telling one from the other?
2. Do you think that there isn't corruption in Russia?
3. Do you think that Putin didn't wet his beak and has
been living exclusively on his presidents wages?

 

[AvHdB]

Just curious, is the discussion about Communists and Communism or the supposed net worth of V. Putin?

My own feeling is his net worth a tad more than the return on shrewd investments would have realized him, I suspect yes. Is it some how US $70 billion or for that matter even a billion US, I doubt it.

Politician and dictators have been accumulating wealth since the oldest profession, get over it.
 

[Manny]

The articles I posted were news articles not opinions.

So you admit now they were not FACTS.

Please tell us the difference between "news" and "opinions"?

It's a rather grey area...........

Do you need help telling one from the other?

I have written for several news channels, RT among them - I wrote my opinion, it became news in some places. I was interviewed not so long back on BBC Breakfast for a news item. I gave my opinion; it became part of the news that day. Wifey recently interviewed an ex-government minister from the Thatcher era for her Youtube channel, a Russian TV channel picked up on it, the opinions discussed became news there. See how this stuff works?

CNN might interview you. You may make some stuff up. Then it's "news". They may not necessarily be facts.

Do you need help telling one from the other?

You posted articles, mostly from the US, most not even "news", but in any event you posted opinion and not proven facts. You tried to pass them off as facts and got busted. Now you are backpedaling. It's not a good look.

[Manny]

Just curious, is the discussion about Communists and Communism or the supposed net worth of V. Putin?

My own feeling is his net worth a tad more than the return on shrewd investments would have realized him, I suspect yes. Is it some how US $70 billion or for that matter even a billion US, I doubt it.

Politician and dictators have been accumulating wealth since the oldest profession, get over it.
 

I agree.

If he had billions tucked away, wouldn't he by now be on his private island without a care in the world and a comely group of dyevushki tending his every need? 

[Texan77]

One it is not tucked away it is invested. Because he enjoys the power of being the most powerful man in the world. No voters to please, the papers will cover his ever mistake. No congress to worry about he selects who is able to run. No electrons to deal with. Well not much of one where he selects the candidates that will be aloud to run against him. You guys do not even believe he has the money so how can you have any understand how Russia runs? He own half of one the wealth of all the oligarchs. Yukos Oil Co. Vasily Shakhnovsky angered  Putin for supporting his opponent in about 2004. So Putin came up with a bunch of charges and took away most of his wealth and put him in jail. The other oligarchs wanted to know what they had to do to not get in the same position. They needed to take Putin on as a partner for protection. That is the source of his vase wealth. This works out very well. They can comment almost any crime with no problem just give Putin half of the money they make. They keep Putin in power and see to it no one challenges his power. Any opponent which has about 5 per cent of the popular vote get in to some type of trouble or dead so he can not run for office. One of the oligarchs will take care of it without Putin's orders. News paper gets out of line or a reporter ask too many of the wrong questions they take care of it for him. Someone starts to write a book about what Russia is really doing in Syria and he fall of a five story building. Putin can not leave office. If he does this net work would come undone and the new Russian government may go after him for all of this wealth and the many crimes committed in his name.  The oligarchs have the same problem. They need to keep Putin in power or maybe pay the price for their many crimes. One of our biggest scandals in the US was when Hillary signed off on Putin buying 25% of all the USA uranium then receiving a gift from a Russian to her charity. I really do not expect any of you guys to believe any of this but now maybe you have least be exposed to it so one day when it falls apart you might have some idea what happened.   

[2tallbill]

The articles I posted were news articles not opinions.

So you admit now they were not FACTS.

Please tell us the difference between "news" and "opinions"?

It's a rather grey area...........

Do you need help telling one from the other?

I have written for several news channels, RT among them - I wrote my opinion, it became news in some places. I was interviewed not so long back on BBC Breakfast for a news item. I gave my opinion; it became part of the news that day. Wifey recently interviewed an ex-government minister from the Thatcher era for her Youtube channel, a Russian TV channel picked up on it, the opinions discussed became news there. See how this stuff works?

CNN might interview you. You may make some stuff up. Then it's "news". They may not necessarily be facts.

Do you need help telling one from the other?

You posted articles, mostly from the US, most not even "news", but in any event you posted opinion and not proven facts. You tried to pass them off as facts and got busted. Now you are backpedaling. It's not a good look.

You are setting an unachievable standard for something to be a fact.

Now you are saying ergo there are no facts. Now I'm busted? backpedaling?
I did neither.

In the news reports is his own financial disclosure of what he owns. In your
mind is that a fact?

You answered zero of my questions. 

[Manny]

You are setting an unachievable standard for something to be a fact.

The truth is not an unachievable standard.

[Guile]

You are setting an unachievable standard for something to be a fact.

The truth is not an unachievable standard.

tell that to Moby hahaha

[Wiz]

Just curious, is the discussion about Communists and Communism or the supposed net worth of V. Putin?

Politician and dictators have been accumulating wealth since the oldest profession, get over it.

In Greece we say and it’s true …. “Tell me a person who will put his hand in the Honey and will not lick his fingers afterwards?”

With that in mind... let's see what we can find in the internet to prove or Not who is richer between the Hegemons.... Trump and Putin.

TRUMP

FORBES States:



Of course don't forget to read this Article too, to get the full picture!

Why Donald Trump's Companies Went Bankrupt

The six bankruptcies were the result of over-leveraged hotel and casino businesses in Atlantic City and New York: Trump Taj Mahal (1991), Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino (1992), Plaza Hotel (1992), Trump Castle Hotel and Casino (1992), Trump Hotels and Casino Resorts (2004), and Trump Entertainment Resorts (2009)

PUTIN

Vladimir Putin’s official net worth is comically modest

Vladimir Putin’s latest financial disclosure has been posted on the Kremlin website, showing the Russian president earned roughly $135,000 in 2018 from his official salary, a military pension, interest on savings, and investment gains.

Putin reports owning an 830 square-foot apartment in Saint Petersburg, along with a 193 square-foot garage, as well as use of a 1,600 square-foot flat in Moscow. He claims to have two vintage Volga GAZ M21 sedans (in the $14,000–$16,000 range on eBay) as well as a Lada Niva SUV (which starts at about $6,800, new) and a retro-fabulous Skif tent trailer, which goes for about $900.

Putin’s alleged true wealth vastly exceeds these numbers. Hermitage Capital Management CEO Bill Browder, a Putin critic who was expelled from Russia in 2005, told the Senate Judiciary Committee in 2017 that Putin is “one of the richest men in the world.”

“I estimate that he has accumulated $200 billion of ill-gotten gains from these types of operations over his 17 years in power,” Browder said.

Vladimir Putin's net worth is a big mystery - Business Insider

That is all that I could find worth reading....... but before start posting do read some of these articles about  Bill Browder!

Anybody know why Bill Browder Escaped Russia?

'Bill Browder Should Be in Jail', Says Philip Giraldi, Widely Respected Pundit and Retired CIA Officer

I’ve Been Browder’s Number One Journalist Critic for Two Decades.

There Is Enormous Russian Interference in US Politics Indeed

Sorry can't find any more evidence about Puti's pot of Gold.

TEXAN

Are you aware that the Trans Siberian Train......stops to many station till arrives at Vladivostok?

While you were typing this very long post of yours, did you stop to take a breath?

Sorry couldn't be bothered to read your post...... must learn to make paragraphs .....

 

[2tallbill]

You are setting an unachievable standard for something to be a fact.

The truth is not an unachievable standard.

You don't know what the truth is. You have no idea how much money Putin
siphoned out of various people, organizations and companies for his own
personal enrichment. It's not zero and you know it.

[Manny]

You are setting an unachievable standard for something to be a fact.

The truth is not an unachievable standard.

You don't know what the truth is.

Nor do you. Nor do the writers of the speculative articles you posted.

Now you are beginning to learn. A fact isnt what someone imagines it to be. That somebody wrote something on the net does not make it proof. In western media the sheeple are encouraged to think in a given way. Especially with the nominated 'bogeymen', of which Putin is one.

You made allegations you were unable to back up with facts or proof. After some squirming, you are learning that guessing, imagining, speculation, facts and proof are not all synonyms. You're welcome. 

You have no idea how much money Putin
siphoned out of various people, organizations and companies for his own
personal enrichment. It's not zero and you know it.

You have no idea either; which was the point of my calling you out. You also have no proof of any "siphoning" or other impropriety.

[andrewfi]

Bill, let me help you here.
First a definition or two of the word 'fact':
1a: something that has actual existence
eg. space exploration is now a fact
b: an actual occurrence
eg. prove the fact of damage
2: a piece of information presented as having objective reality
eg. These are the hard facts of the case.
3: the quality of being actual: ACTUALITY
eg. a question of fact hinges on evidence
4: a thing done: such as
a: CRIME
eg. accessory after the fact

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fact

Next, what is evidence?
a: an outward sign: INDICATION
b: something that furnishes proof: TESTIMONY
specifically: something legally submitted to a tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/evidence

Lastly, what is an opinion?
Definition of opinion
1a: a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter
eg. We asked them for their opinions about the new stadium.
b: APPROVAL, ESTEEM
eg. I have no great opinion of his work.
2a: belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge
a person of rigid opinions
b: a generally held view
eg. news programs that shape public opinion
3a: a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert
eg. My doctor says that I need an operation, but I'm going to get a second opinion.
b: the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based
eg. The article discusses the recent Supreme Court opinion.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/opinion

OK, so now you know what the words you are using mean.
Please show us any facts that provide evidence of the claims you are making.

Bill, words have meanings. All I am asking you to do is to support your claims with some facts rather than the opinions of others that are not themselves supported by facts.

Please do not blame me for your inability to support your conjecture with any evidence. It is possible, but unlikely, that your conjecture is true. At this time, nobody has produced evidence to support the contention.

[BillyB]

Communists have become the Monopoly in everything.

In a Capitalistic country, a lot of people can get rich. In a Communist country, only a few can get rich. A few usually are the ones in charge of making sure everybody is equal.

If he had billions tucked away, wouldn't he by now be on his private island without a care in the world and a comely group of dyevushki tending his every need? 

I don't think being on a secluded island with a bunch of beautiful woman is the only thing that turns Putin on. There's a lot of rich guys out there that can be a Jeffery Epstein having a party everyday on a private island...…. with legally aged women of course.

[BillyB]

People want evidence? On the Kremlin's site, there is Putin's financial statement. He owns a tiny apartment and a few old cars. He makes $135,000 a year. He has few assets. Do any of you actually believe that? Between that financial statement and 200 billion, the truth lays somewhere in there. Others may have estimated Putin's worth. That may or may not be true but what we do know is Putin is lying about what he owns.

https://qz.com/1594989/vladimir-putins-financial-disclosure-claims-little-wealth/