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Author Topic: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion  (Read 1037 times)

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Online rosco

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Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« on: November 14, 2019, 04:28:38 AM »
When it comes to dictators, the city they rule in prospers while others suffer. My wife lived in Tripoli, Libya when she was my fiancée. She said it's a great place to live and Ghaddafi was well respected. I didn't say much over the phone because I know somebody could be listening but I wanted to tell her unemployment is high and life sucks for them and most people in Libya hate Ghaddafi......

As the civil war in Libya raged on, rebels made little progress but soon NATO got their act together and did a better job bombing a road to Tripoli for the rebels.....

There's quite a bit of info out there on what Libya was actually like before it was invaded. No doubt there's some shitty scenario's but all of them better than what they have today. Many lived with peace, security and wealth before the US, Obama, clinton and the IMF got involved.

It's quite startling that you blindly follow the US propaganda as opposed to real events. Where did Libya's assets go after regime change I don't hear you ask?

Offline Wiz

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2019, 11:03:47 AM »
When it comes to dictators, the city they rule in prospers while others suffer. My wife lived in Tripoli, Libya when she was my fiancée. She said it's a great place to live and Ghaddafi was well respected. I didn't say much over the phone because I know somebody could be listening but I wanted to tell her unemployment is high and life sucks for them and most people in Libya hate Ghaddafi......

As the civil war in Libya raged on, rebels made little progress but soon NATO got their act together and did a better job bombing a road to Tripoli for the rebels.....

There's quite a bit of info out there on what Libya was actually like before it was invaded. No doubt there's some shitty scenario's but all of them better than what they have today. Many lived with peace, security and wealth before the US, Obama, clinton and the IMF got involved.

It's quite startling that you blindly follow the US propaganda as opposed to real events. Where did Libya's assets go after regime change I don't hear you ask?

Quiz: Which is the country where:

1. There were no electricity bills. The electricity was free for all its citizens.

2. There was no interest on loans. The banks were state-owned and loans were given according to law, all citizens on zero (0%) interest rate.

3. The house is considered a human right in the country.

4. All honeymooners received 60,000 dinars (about U.S. $ 50,000) from the government to buy their first apartment and to help to start their family.

5. Education and medical care was free. Before the rise of their leader to power, only 25% of people knew reading and writing. Today the figure is 83%.

6. Those who decided to follow the profession of a farmer, were receiving free agricultural land, free rural house equipment and free equipment to start their farms.

7. Those who could not find the education training or medical care they needed in the country, were receiving funding from the government to go abroad (plus $ 2,300 / month for living expenses and travel).

8. The government subsidized 50% of the cost of buying private vehicles.

9. The price of gasoline was $ 0.14 / liter.

10. The country has no external debt and foreign reserves reach $ 150 billion (today, these funds are "frozen" worldwide).

11. If a resident could not find work after graduation, the state paid the average salary of the profession who would have received if it was working, until he found work.

12. Part of the country's oil sales was credited directly into the bank accounts of all citizens.

13. Every mother who bore a child received $ 10,000 U.S..

14. Forty loaves of bread is costing $ 0.15.

15. 25% of residents have a university degree.

16. The murdered, now, leader had launched the largest irrigation project in the world, known as the Great Man-Made River, in order to have access to water throughout the country desert.
.................................................. ........................

Did you find it?

No it is none of the "civilized" and industrialized countries of the Western Hemisphere.


We talk about Libya's "evil" Gaddafi, (yes, you read it correctly) and Libya was bombed by: Total, ENI, BP, Repsol, Exxon Mobil, Chevron, Occidental Petroleum, Hess and Conoco Phillips.

Welcome to the Pharisees-murderous world of plutocracy! ...


 tiphat

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2019, 01:00:49 PM »
Hands up who has been to Libya ?

I was there while Gen G was about to lose his grip on the east . 


I installed comms kit in Benghazi at a school

In those times there was a lovely new Hospital in Benghazi .. but unless you were part of the tribe or clique that supported Gen G - you couldn't use it's facilities .


People disappeared - never to be seen again- the regime held Libya together by threat of force and repression ...   His family were spoilt bullies - even abroad

So ple-ease ... less of the rose-tinted' things were better then' bollox ..   


Sheer ignorance .... it's like saying 'things were better on Saddam, in Iraq',,

Ask a Kurd or Sand Arab and they'd look at you like you ware mad ...
You won’t make every topic about you. Think of it like containing a virus: you can’t have it infecting everywhere.

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic


Online BillyB

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2019, 06:06:49 PM »

Wiz, you listed a lot of good stuff happening in Libya before the war. Sure Western powers supported the Arab Spring rebels but what do you think made Libyan civilians rebel against their government? Please don't tell me they were paid. Civilians in the Western world aren't going to risk their lives to fight a decent government if you paid them a few bucks.
"Billy, go read. You don't need to be an 'expert' to read. Billy, again read stuff. Even if this disease ends up being serious, in a few months it will be gone. That's how these things work." quote by forum epidemic and virology expert Andrewfi Jan 28, 2020 on the coronavirus

Offline Wiz

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2019, 02:36:44 AM »

Wiz, you listed a lot of good stuff happening in Libya before the war. Sure Western powers supported the Arab Spring rebels but what do you think made Libyan civilians rebel against their government? Please don't tell me they were paid. Civilians in the Western world aren't going to risk their lives to fight a decent government if you paid them a few bucks.

Let me make clear that the above quiz was copied from a Greek blog which is not available anymore. I have a little suspicion that I had read it on Pravda, but not sure.

Any how if my memory serves me right, I have not seen any rebels, in the early days of the NATO bombing around Tripoli......just a few jihadi, supported by the USA in Benghazi.

HERE IS A MEMORY FOR YOU TO KNOW
WHO WAS BEHIND THE RAPE OF LIBYA



Any objections on who was behind the "Arab Spring" and the rape of Libya and it's People?

As I happen to be old enough to remember who destroyed your Birth Country Vietnam, the same country. USA ever since the Korean war has been invading and destroying a huge number of countries with the latest victim Bolivia to steal their natural resources, Lithium in her case, useful to make batteries.

When it comes to dictators, the city they rule in prospers while others suffer. My wife lived in Tripoli, Libya when she was my fiancée. She said it's a great place to live and Ghaddafi was well respected. I didn't say much over the phone because I know somebody could be listening but I wanted to tell her unemployment is high and life sucks for them and most people in Libya hate Ghaddafi......

As the civil war in Libya raged on, rebels made little progress but soon NATO got their act together and did a better job bombing a road to Tripoli for the rebels.....

There's quite a bit of info out there on what Libya was actually like before it was invaded. No doubt there's some shitty scenario's but all of them better than what they have today. Many lived with peace, security and wealth before the US, Obama, clinton and the IMF got involved.

It's quite startling that you blindly follow the US propaganda as opposed to real events. Where did Libya's assets go after regime change I don't hear you ask?

I whole heartily agree with Rosco's comments for your blind following of the USA propaganda. Unbelievable from where you  are coming from!

Remember this photo?



 tiphat



Online msmoby

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2019, 02:57:43 AM »
Wiz,

Why do insist is posting utter twaddle about places you have never been to?

I was in Benghazi not long before Gen G decided tho send in tanks and NATO got involved in a shooting war.

Westerners were still working there.

You won’t make every topic about you. Think of it like containing a virus: you can’t have it infecting everywhere.

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Online rosco

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2019, 04:20:00 AM »
Wiz,

Why do insist is posting utter twaddle about places you have never been to?

I was in Benghazi not long before Gen G decided tho send in tanks and NATO got involved in a shooting war.

Westerners were still working there.

Exactly.

Westerners were still working there and it was a much safer place to be. It's not about rose tinted glasses and we all know that horrible things happened under Gaddafi and Hussein. Much like Afghanistan, we see them living differently and disagree with much of it but its a different culture and quite frankly none of our business if they have democracy or not. It's Arab, its tribal and its not for us to decide.

*As a side issue Moby you don't even respect democracy in the UK.

Gaddafi, Hussein and our friend Assad all have many many faults but instigating regime change and destroying their whole country, whilst the US steals their assets, doesn't make the world a more stable place for us and it only wrecks the lives of 10's of millions of innocent souls.

Offline Wiz

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2019, 07:55:24 AM »
Wiz,

Why do insist is posting utter twaddle about places you have never been to?

I was in Benghazi not long before Gen G decided to send in tanks and NATO got involved in a shooting war.Westerners were still working there.

Dear Moby

Like most normal people, except you  ;D who is an exceptional personality and obviously have travelled in most countries of the world, my experience Visiting other countries is limited to Europe, Russia and North America.

Having said that it doesn't mean that I am a complete moron in life and in world Affairs as I have the ability to read and learn for other countries, like most people and I don't have to follow the MM propaganda  but form my own opinion.

Having followed your posts for years on these boards I have noticed that you are travelling mostly to non tourist places, like us simpletons.

I just wonder; Is it coincident that in most countries you have travelled, soon after your departure there is trouble in the country?

Without searching, I remember that when you were in Thailand with your new woman friend, for 2-3 days you travelled to Cambodia or Vietnam, or both of them.

You said you have visited Syria..... and look what happened there, still fighting with the American Mercenaries who are stealing the Syrian Oil for Trump, the mafia boss. (was stated by Tramp on TV as you must know).

While you were in North Cyprus you were travelling around testing the various Passages from North to South and vice versa. Soon after you left trouble took place between the Turks and Greeks, because the Turks moved the frontier and took control of an area with 5 -10 Greek Cypriot Houses inside the British Base.

When you visited Georgia trouble started with Russia and all flights from/to Russia were cancelled, because the Russians moved the frontier line south to include the E4 thus getting control on the E4 major road of Georgia.

You stated in a later post that you were in Benghazi, where …..... "I installed comms kit in Benghazi at a school ".....obviously under orders of whoever pays your piper.....in preparation of what took place pretty soon. Not the first time working in a dubious place, like in the British Base in North Cyprus!

Well almost everybody was aware of what was coming next after the US General Clark revealed on TV the plan of the Arab Spring and who were behind.

The truth is the western Alliance convinced Gen G to give up building his Nuclear arsenal and when he did……. They moved in for the loot!   

Finally: If you think I am writing Bolox then I ask you to provide your factual evidence and dispute my posts instead of spewing hot air.


 :coffeeread:

Offline Wiz

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2019, 08:02:40 AM »

Wiz, you listed a lot of good stuff happening in Libya before the war. Sure Western powers supported the Arab Spring rebels but what do you think made Libyan civilians rebel against their government? Please don't tell me they were paid. Civilians in the Western world aren't going to risk their lives to fight a decent government if you paid them a few bucks.

I suggest you search and read comments and reports of what was going on over there, with Hillary's mercenaries before the NATO managed to paralysed his resistance...... and Killed him.

I am sure Moby can tell you as he was there just before installing Communication equipment..... etc The rebels were Al qaeda trained by your US in Kosovo at your base there.

 :sick0012:


PS: Billy search and look to read news of what is taking place in GReece this coming Sunday 17 November. take a taste below........ English Subtitles.


Online BillyB

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2019, 09:38:32 AM »
Gaddafi, Hussein and our friend Assad all have many many faults but instigating regime change and destroying their whole country, whilst the US steals their assets, doesn't make the world a more stable place for us and it only wrecks the lives of 10's of millions of innocent souls.


I've concluded every nation is involved in regime change to make sure their neighbors are friendly. It's human nature. It's best to accept it instead of fight it. Even the guys you list above have spent money in hopes of regime change in their neighborhood. It's fun to do it. It's not fun when happening to them.
"Billy, go read. You don't need to be an 'expert' to read. Billy, again read stuff. Even if this disease ends up being serious, in a few months it will be gone. That's how these things work." quote by forum epidemic and virology expert Andrewfi Jan 28, 2020 on the coronavirus

Offline Wiz

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2019, 11:52:54 PM »
Gaddafi, Hussein and our friend Assad all have many many faults but instigating regime change and destroying their whole country, whilst the US steals their assets, doesn't make the world a more stable place for us and it only wrecks the lives of 10's of millions of innocent souls.


I've concluded every nation is involved in regime change to make sure their neighbors are friendly. It's human nature. It's best to accept it instead of fight it. Even the guys you list above have spent money in hopes of regime change in their neighborhood. It's fun to do it. It's not fun when happening to them.

The only Nation involved in regime change around the globe, it is the USA since the end of WWII.

I never thought somebody, like you it will be so brainwashed that he cannot see what is going on. I GUESS you are blind because America took you out of your birth country to save your neck!

......I am sure .Ho Chi Minh
would have taken good care of you.



I suggest you watch this video, open your ears and Learn........
and stop posting rubbish!

Confessions of an Economic Hitman
John Perkins



 tiphat

Offline Valenki

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2019, 03:48:55 AM »
I was in Libya during the "no-fly" period - punishment for the Lockerbie thing. I travelled overland from Tunisia. It was a decent place where men from all of Africa and the Middle East sought gainful employment. My biggest complaint was that all roads signs and street names were written in Arabic alone.

Offline Valenki

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #12 on: December 01, 2019, 03:53:18 AM »
The only Nation involved in regime change around the globe, it is the USA since the end of WWII.

That's right. It started with 'Operation TP Ajax' and has snowballed since. Calling Mosaddegh a "virtual dictator".

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2019, 09:20:07 AM »
I was in Libya during the "no-fly" period - punishment for the Lockerbie thing. I travelled overland from Tunisia. It was a decent place where men from all of Africa and the Middle East sought gainful employment.


Don't discriminate! Women from all over was working in Libya too. Many women from Ukraine worked there in the medical industry. My mother in law worked there as a doctor. Foreigners got good jobs from the medical to the oil industry. Some of the citizens were pissed. Ghedaffi had a Ukrainian nurse travel with him often.
"Billy, go read. You don't need to be an 'expert' to read. Billy, again read stuff. Even if this disease ends up being serious, in a few months it will be gone. That's how these things work." quote by forum epidemic and virology expert Andrewfi Jan 28, 2020 on the coronavirus

Offline Valenki

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2019, 09:54:16 AM »
I was in Libya during the "no-fly" period - punishment for the Lockerbie thing. I travelled overland from Tunisia. It was a decent place where men from all of Africa and the Middle East sought gainful employment.

Don't discriminate!
Is that an accusation?


Women from all over was working in Libya too. Many women from Ukraine worked there in the medical industry. My mother in law worked there as a doctor. Foreigners got good jobs from the medical to the oil industry.
That's what I said.

 
Some of the citizens were pissed.
I doubt that. Alcohol is forbidden in Islam.


Ghedaffi had a Ukrainian nurse travel with him often.
I do recall a scandal and some of them were imprisoned for some sort of crime. EDIT: Maybe they were Bulgars.

Offline Wiz

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2019, 10:19:22 PM »
I was in Libya during the "no-fly" period - punishment for the Lockerbie thing. I travelled overland from Tunisia. It was a decent place where men from all of Africa and the Middle East sought gainful employment. My biggest complaint was that all roads signs and street names were written in Arabic alone.

I am sure, if Gen Gaddafi  was alive and had not been killed by the USA mercenaries/Agents ..... and Libya had continue thriving I am sure he would have listen to any requests you would have made to make sure that the tourist trade and visitors would increase accordingly.

Of course, today, it would have helped all these poor people who look to find their direction to the Med ports  in Libya where they catch the Free NGO run "charitable boats my ass" to take them to the EU for slavery work. :evilgrin0002:

How is the immigration situation in Sweden,  and especially in Skövde?

Can you give us an objective picture.....by starting a new thread?

Tak Bro   tiphat

Offline Valenki

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2019, 11:18:40 PM »
I am sure, if Gen Gaddafi  was alive and had not been killed by the USA mercenaries/Agents ..... and Libya had continue thriving I am sure he would have listen to any requests you would have made to make sure that the tourist trade and visitors would increase accordingly.

I am not sure that I see what you are driving at. I only mentioned the difficulty in navigating the country, not having the luxury of reading Arabic. But now that you've introduced the political/cultural aspects it is possible Khaddafi would have re-introduced UK-occupational, bilingual road and street signs. After all, he was reinstated as a “good boy” sometime after the Lockerbie lads were released from prison so your suggestion is not an outrageous one.

How is the immigration situation in Sweden,  and especially in Skövde?
Skövde? Why choose Skövde? All of Sweden is today in a whirlpool, the sort that is created when you pull the plunger on the porcelain crapper.

Can you give us an objective picture.....by starting a new thread
I don't think that I can present an objective picture. We are at two extremes. The one says the enormous criminal increase is due to the migrants and the other one says that Sweden would have been exactly where it is today without the immigration explosion. I belong firmly to one of those.

Offline Wiz

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2019, 03:13:13 AM »
I am sure, if Gen Gaddafi  was alive and had not been killed by the USA mercenaries/Agents ..... and Libya had continue thriving I am sure he would have listen to any requests you would have made to make sure that the tourist trade and visitors would increase accordingly.

I am not sure that I see what you are driving at. I only mentioned the difficulty in navigating the country, not having the luxury of reading Arabic. But now that you've introduced the political/cultural aspects it is possible Khaddafi would have re-introduced UK-occupational, bilingual road and street signs. After all, he was reinstated as a “good boy” sometime after the Lockerbie lads were released from prison so your suggestion is not an outrageous one.

Any country in its development especially if it wants to develop tourism ....  like Greece did back in the 60!.......then they change the signs from 1 language to a bilingual ..... the 2nd language mostly is English! That is all........   
So what you were doing in libya.... looking for a job? LOL

How is the immigration situation in Sweden,  and especially in Skövde?
Skövde? Why choose Skövde? All of Sweden is today in a whirlpool, the sort that is created when you pull the plunger on the porcelain crapper.

I spent some good time there back in the 70's Nice small town.... for long weekends....flying on SAS  ;D

Can you give us an objective picture.....by starting a new thread
I don't think that I can present an objective picture. We are at two extremes. The one says the enormous criminal increase is due to the migrants and the other one says that Sweden would have been exactly where it is today without the immigration explosion. I belong firmly to one of those.

Shame ... was such a beautiful country, had good memories.........visiting many places......

Tak Bro ..

 tiphat

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2019, 09:34:50 AM »
So what you were doing in libya.... looking for a job? LOL
:) I'd been so often in Tunisia and visited every nook and cranny of the country so that crossing over the frontiers of  Algeria and Libya was the natural thing to do. Back then it was cheap to purchase a charter ticket to Sousse (without the hotel included) so I'd travel round and find lodgings wherever I happen to be.

Shame ... was such a beautiful country, had good memories.........visiting many places......
I'm happy you liked it. You got around a bit, did you? It's beyond repair now. If we put our shoulder into it today it will take at least 30 years to get it back to snuff but some very harsh decisions will have to be made and I don't know if there enough gritty politicians willing to shove PC culture out the door and get the job done.

Offline Wiz

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2019, 02:28:46 PM »
So what you were doing in libya.... looking for a job? LOL
:) I'd been so often in Tunisia and visited every nook and cranny of the country so that crossing over the frontiers of  Algeria and Libya was the natural thing to do. Back then it was cheap to purchase a charter ticket to Sousse (without the hotel included) so I'd travel round and find lodgings wherever I happen to be.

An adventurer,  obviously you were looking for exotic hot places ... .to get away from the cold weather...... :laugh:

Shame ... was such a beautiful country, had good memories.........visiting many places......
I'm happy you liked it. You got around a bit, did you?

Both were beautiful.... and was very easy for me to get a ticket to Gothenburg on SAS for less than £20 return..... because I was selling holidays to sweden.

It's beyond repair now. If we put our shoulder into it today it will take at least 30 years to get it back to snuff but some very harsh decisions will have to be made and I don't know if there enough gritty politicians willing to shove PC culture out the door and get the job done.

I watched a couple of videos....... and I say again..... SHAME!  :(

Offline Valenki

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #20 on: December 05, 2019, 01:18:26 AM »
Both were beautiful.... and was very easy for me to get a ticket to Gothenburg on SAS for less than £20 return..... because I was selling holidays to sweden.

So you're a Sweden expert. You probably know the country better than I do.

I watched a couple of videos....... and I say again..... SHAME!


It's unrecognizable. I remember when we had one murder with 5-year intervals. SD claims it is capable of cleaning up the mess. I don't know if they can but they are the only political party willing to take on the challenge. The others want to continue making it worse. 

Offline Wiz

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #21 on: December 05, 2019, 03:16:03 AM »
Both were beautiful.... and was very easy for me to get a ticket to Gothenburg on SAS for less than £20 return..... because I was selling holidays to sweden.

So you're a Sweden expert. You probably know the country better than I do.

Not really, but I travelled several times and visited many places, invited by the Swedish Tourist organisation, back in the 70's & 8O's. I spend many w/ends at Skövde.

I watched a couple of videos....... and I say again..... SHAME!

It's unrecognizable. I remember when we had one murder with 5-year intervals. SD claims it is capable of cleaning up the mess. I don't know if they can but they are the only political party willing to take on the challenge. The others want to continue making it worse.

Wish something can be done.........and go back to your previous state.

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #22 on: December 05, 2019, 09:48:24 AM »
Not really, but I travelled several times and visited many places, invited by the Swedish Tourist organisation, back in the 70's & 8O's. I spend many w/ends at Skövde.

Ah! Sweden in the 70's! ABBA, Harpo, Vikingarna, traditional costume, träskor, low crime, and happy faces everywhere you turn!   :)


Wish something can be done.........and go back to your previous state.

Me too.   :(

Offline LoyalMan

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #23 on: December 05, 2019, 10:42:58 AM »
Valenki,
Sorry to hear about the present situation of Sweden.  It is irreversible.  You love Muslim new comers. You must also love their minds as well.  They have not guaranteed they will also love native Swedish.

Blame the German Merkel.  It is she who forces UK to protect herself.


I buy some ikea furniture to support Sweden every year.

Offline Valenki

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Re: Discussion on Libya Before and After the US Invasion
« Reply #24 on: December 05, 2019, 11:18:42 AM »
Valenki,
Sorry to hear about the present situation of Sweden.  It is irreversible. You love Muslim new comers. You must also love their minds as well. They have not guaranteed they will also love native Swedish.

It does seem that way.

Blame the German Merkel.

But did we have to follow her to the letter?


I buy some ikea furniture to support Sweden every year.

Yes, I know. Your name has been mentioned in the newspapers quite a lot lately as one of the great supporters of my country.


 

 

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