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Author Topic: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man  (Read 17683 times)

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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2020, 10:17:03 AM »
Today, 21 days after placing my order, my new speakers arrived. Two boxes, one big one like a monkey's coffin that wasn't too heavy and a bloody heavy small one.

OK, not new, but new to me. B&O Beolab 8000 speakers from around 1997. I was very pleased with the condition. They look almost new even to close inspection. The seller has replaced the grilles and fabric covers so they are tight, black and clean.
By the way, the speakers were packed and delivered in brand new packaging from B&O. One can still buy original packaging for many of their products, I have never seen that elsewhere.

But they sound bloody marvellous. There's clarity, detail and a kind of airiness, a feeling of space around everything. Each instrument, each voice, has its place in all dimensions. I listened to Hello by Adele and got goosebumps. She was in the room with me, about 6 feet in front of me and just a little to my right.

Sadly, it looks as though I have been let down on the original stand for the system. I'll keep looking for that. Its a cool piece of kit made of glass and metal that gives the effect of making the system appear to float in mid-air with no visible cables for power or speakers.

Overall, a bit of a bargain.
The speakers cost me £1000 including delivery from the UK. The new price in 1997 was £2100. They got a lot more costly later on.
The Beocenter 9000 sold for about £1600 with the setup I have. I paid £250.
The Allo Boss DAC was a bit of a bargain at just £123.

I want to track down a later model remote control in good condition. I might as well have the whole thing looking good and the remote control looks a tad shabby at the moment.

I think that'll do for me for a few years. :)

Fantastic speakers, congratulations!

I lost touch with him but a friend did install work for Bang & Olufsen. I helped him on a few of those installs just as an assistant mostly carrying stuff.


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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2020, 10:53:26 AM »
Back in the day I owned Klipsch KG4 speakers, a very efficient kick-ass rock and roll speaker at a pretty good price.

My brother has all Denon components paired with Kef speakers which I recommended to him many years ago.

My audio system was stolen years ago and the one item they didn’t get is the Denon CD player. Hopefully someday soon I’ll be able to get a decent amp for it.

A friend gave me his old Infinity RS6b reference speakers. Rebuilt one of them and the other one still needs it.

This thread is inspiring.  :thumbsup:


http://www.hifi-classic.net/review/infinity-rs6-361.html

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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2020, 12:47:12 PM »
Thanks!
I think I mentioned up thread that I lost my HiFi to thieves. I had purchased my 'last' turntable a Technics SL10. It was stolen but later was recovered. Sadly the buggers had forced it open, they didn't know how to open the thing and it was never the same again. They also had my DBX decoder and all my DBX LPs.

I sometimes think about buying a turntable but that'd be silliness now.

I was giving some thought to B&O and how it fits with the audiophile thing and, of course, it doesn't. B&O isn't for audiophiles, no matter how well designed and made, no matter how good B&O equipment sounds, it isn't for audiophiles. Of course, the reality that the pricing is well beyond what even most well-heeled audiophiles could afford, the other point is that B&O buyers are not looking to fiddle around. They want quality that stands the test of time and is not subject to fads and fashions.

But a serious B&O buyer can drop $50k on speakers for a single room. The $5k per pair for the current version of my speakers is right in the budget end! But whether its $5k or $50k we are not planning to make changes for many years.

When one reads the forums where folks are discussing their B&O installations this is clear. Folks are setting up their homes as systems, this is once in a generation stuff. While I am definitely at the older end of what's common in terms of the age of the equipment, people are installing kit from 10 years ago in full knowledge that it will last another ten or more years.

One thought Confederate, if I were you I'd not think too much about amplifiers. Go have a look at some KEF LS50 powered/active speakers. Get yourself a streamer similar to that which I bought and forget the CDs. Get a Tidal or Qobuzz subscription where all the music is a minimum of CD quality, install Roon on a phone or tablet to control everything and enjoy the music.
Or, for a lot less, just buy a pair of BeoLab 8000s like I have and enjoy everything right now.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!


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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2020, 01:25:48 PM »
As a professional sound engineer my dad has quite the collection of high-fidelity equipment (mostly for his own enjoyment now that he has reached retirement). Although most of his equipment was spared from the house fire (being located in the studio), he did lose a pair of Dynaudio M3XE monitors that were set up in the parlor room. Rather broken up about it too, but I just helped him to pick up the replacements at a freight depot in Erie the other day. Sons of bitches are heavy for their size!   
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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2020, 01:44:51 PM »
Thanks!
I think I mentioned up thread that I lost my HiFi to thieves. I had purchased my 'last' turntable a Technics SL10. It was stolen but later was recovered. Sadly the buggers had forced it open, they didn't know how to open the thing and it was never the same again. They also had my DBX decoder and all my DBX LPs.

I sometimes think about buying a turntable but that'd be silliness now.

I was giving some thought to B&O and how it fits with the audiophile thing and, of course, it doesn't. B&O isn't for audiophiles, no matter how well designed and made, no matter how good B&O equipment sounds, it isn't for audiophiles. Of course, the reality that the pricing is well beyond what even most well-heeled audiophiles could afford, the other point is that B&O buyers are not looking to fiddle around. They want quality that stands the test of time and is not subject to fads and fashions.

But a serious B&O buyer can drop $50k on speakers for a single room. The $5k per pair for the current version of my speakers is right in the budget end! But whether its $5k or $50k we are not planning to make changes for many years.

When one reads the forums where folks are discussing their B&O installations this is clear. Folks are setting up their homes as systems, this is once in a generation stuff. While I am definitely at the older end of what's common in terms of the age of the equipment, people are installing kit from 10 years ago in full knowledge that it will last another ten or more years.

One thought Confederate, if I were you I'd not think too much about amplifiers. Go have a look at some KEF LS50 powered/active speakers. Get yourself a streamer similar to that which I bought and forget the CDs. Get a Tidal or Qobuzz subscription where all the music is a minimum of CD quality, install Roon on a phone or tablet to control everything and enjoy the music.
Or, for a lot less, just buy a pair of BeoLab 8000s like I have and enjoy everything right now.

1. Curious, why don’t you think that B&O are not “audiophile” quality equipment? Or as you put it, not for audiophiles?

I don’t get that statement(?). They seem audiophile to me! But yes they are of very high build quality. Buy them and enjoy for at least a decade!

Maybe you believe that audiophiles are constantly changing things up?

2. I certainly do appreciate your suggestions however I must be very old fashioned. I want to be able to change the CD! Or even cassette! Besides I may wish to live off grid someday with just solar power and a generator but no WIFI.

I do like KEF speakers very much and will have a listen someday to the model you suggested.

However I prefer separate amplifier. Will probably just get an entry level two channel Yamaha receiver pretty soon.

A Marantz would be my preference, probably an integrated amplifier and separate tuner would be my choice.




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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2020, 01:51:47 PM »
As a professional sound engineer my dad has quite the collection of high-fidelity equipment (mostly for his own enjoyment now that he has reached retirement). Although most of his equipment was spared from the house fire (being located in the studio), he did lose a pair of Dynaudio M3XE monitors that were set up in the parlor room. Rather broken up about it too, but I just helped him to pick up the replacements at a freight depot in Erie the other day. Sons of bitches are heavy for their size!   

They better be heavy for that price!  :laugh:


https://soniccircus.com/product/dynaudio-m3xe-studio-main-monitor-system/

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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #56 on: January 13, 2020, 04:02:08 PM »
Audiophiles are always chasing after something new and better. That's not just an opinion, it's what the audiophile market is based on.

So, yes, audiophile buyers are about change. The folks who buy B&O are seeking stability. They find what they like, spend a fortune on it, spend more money to integrate it into their homes and living environments and do not easily change. Of course, there's many buyers of high end audio who do not seek change. But they'd also be unlikely to self identify as audiophiles.

One issue that B&O is facing is how to make money from people willing to spend large amounts of money but only every decade or so. Especially when the digital sources are no longer physical. Their more recent efforts foundered and became expensive failures. Now B&O buyers are stuck with very expensive, exquisite quality speakers driven from somebody else's mobile phone giving a very compromised use experience.
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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #57 on: January 13, 2020, 04:54:26 PM »
As a professional sound engineer my dad has quite the collection of high-fidelity equipment (mostly for his own enjoyment now that he has reached retirement). Although most of his equipment was spared from the house fire (being located in the studio), he did lose a pair of Dynaudio M3XE monitors that were set up in the parlor room. Rather broken up about it too, but I just helped him to pick up the replacements at a freight depot in Erie the other day. Sons of bitches are heavy for their size!   

They better be heavy for that price!  :laugh:


https://soniccircus.com/product/dynaudio-m3xe-studio-main-monitor-system/

Yeah, the first insurance claims adjuster that visited the house right after the fire basically said, "sorry, this is over my head, I need to call someone else in the company." With stuff like these speakers you can see why.

Back in the day I owned Klipsch KG4 speakers, a very efficient kick-ass rock and roll speaker at a pretty good price.

My brother has all Denon components paired with Kef speakers which I recommended to him many years ago.

My audio system was stolen years ago and the one item they didn’t get is the Denon CD player. Hopefully someday soon I’ll be able to get a decent amp for it.

A friend gave me his old Infinity RS6b reference speakers. Rebuilt one of them and the other one still needs it.

This thread is inspiring.  :thumbsup:


http://www.hifi-classic.net/review/infinity-rs6-361.html

I don't know all that much about speakers but I do know that my dad speaks highly of Klipsch... has a few pair himself and has also sold them to clients. Of course he has also rebuilt speakers. I think you and him would get along well Confederate. 

"My soul cries out with a joyful shout that the God of my heart is great, and my spirit sings of the wondrous things that you bring to the ones who wait." - Canticle of the Turning

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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #58 on: January 13, 2020, 06:30:53 PM »
As a professional sound engineer my dad has quite the collection of high-fidelity equipment (mostly for his own enjoyment now that he has reached retirement). Although most of his equipment was spared from the house fire (being located in the studio), he did lose a pair of Dynaudio M3XE monitors that were set up in the parlor room. Rather broken up about it too, but I just helped him to pick up the replacements at a freight depot in Erie the other day. Sons of bitches are heavy for their size!   

They better be heavy for that price!  :laugh:


https://soniccircus.com/product/dynaudio-m3xe-studio-main-monitor-system/

Yeah, the first insurance claims adjuster that visited the house right after the fire basically said, "sorry, this is over my head, I need to call someone else in the company." With stuff like these speakers you can see why.

Back in the day I owned Klipsch KG4 speakers, a very efficient kick-ass rock and roll speaker at a pretty good price.

My brother has all Denon components paired with Kef speakers which I recommended to him many years ago.

My audio system was stolen years ago and the one item they didn’t get is the Denon CD player. Hopefully someday soon I’ll be able to get a decent amp for it.

A friend gave me his old Infinity RS6b reference speakers. Rebuilt one of them and the other one still needs it.

This thread is inspiring.  :thumbsup:


http://www.hifi-classic.net/review/infinity-rs6-361.html

I don't know all that much about speakers but I do know that my dad speaks highly of Klipsch... has a few pair himself and has also sold them to clients. Of course he has also rebuilt speakers. I think you and him would get along well Confederate.


I’ll bet your father has a pair of these. And if not he’s very familiar with them. They’re very famous in the audio world. Read the article to see why!


https://www.cnet.com/news/dont-back-down-klipsch-heresy-iii-speakers/


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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #59 on: January 13, 2020, 10:09:45 PM »

I’ll bet your father has a pair of these. And if not he’s very familiar with them. They’re very famous in the audio world. Read the article to see why!

https://www.cnet.com/news/dont-back-down-klipsch-heresy-iii-speakers/

Just showed him the article. As it turns out, he does not have a pair of the III's but does have a pair of the original Heresy's. He said they're great sounding speakers and would love to try the III's someday. My dad says hello to you Confederate!
"My soul cries out with a joyful shout that the God of my heart is great, and my spirit sings of the wondrous things that you bring to the ones who wait." - Canticle of the Turning

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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #60 on: January 14, 2020, 07:40:33 AM »

I’ll bet your father has a pair of these. And if not he’s very familiar with them. They’re very famous in the audio world. Read the article to see why!

https://www.cnet.com/news/dont-back-down-klipsch-heresy-iii-speakers/

Just showed him the article. As it turns out, he does not have a pair of the III's but does have a pair of the original Heresy's. He said they're great sounding speakers and would love to try the III's someday. My dad says hello to you Confederate!

 tiphat

(BTW I didn’t mean the III’s in particular, I just meant the Heresy’s in general)

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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #61 on: January 14, 2020, 11:10:39 AM »

I’ll bet your father has a pair of these. And if not he’s very familiar with them. They’re very famous in the audio world. Read the article to see why!

https://www.cnet.com/news/dont-back-down-klipsch-heresy-iii-speakers/

Just showed him the article. As it turns out, he does not have a pair of the III's but does have a pair of the original Heresy's. He said they're great sounding speakers and would love to try the III's someday. My dad says hello to you Confederate!

 tiphat

(BTW I didn’t mean the III’s in particular, I just meant the Heresy’s in general)

Edit to add: I sort of doubt it would be possible to hear much of a difference between the original Heresy speakers and the ongoing models; if so it would be very minor. The main thing is that they’ve always been a very efficient and highly dynamic speaker! And in a small package.

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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #62 on: January 14, 2020, 12:40:47 PM »
[This post did not meet our community standards]
I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #63 on: July 19, 2020, 07:46:38 AM »
I seem to have caught a bug!

I am loving the sound of the system I put together above. I ended up falling down a rabbit hole. Here's what happened.

I wanted to run my TV audio through the Beocenter 9000. Problem is that the TV has either a headphone output or a digital output for sound (yes there's hdmi but that's another story).

I started out using the headphone output to the hi-fi. It was OK but absolutely not comparable to the digital output from my streamer/dac. I thought,did some reading and decided to buy, on a reviewer's recommendation, an inexpensive digital to audio converter from Amazon. It cost me about $15 and meets all the expectations that the reviewer suggested.

But, given that I can run my Roon music server, Spotify and Tidal through the TV as well as the Allo Digital system I quickly found that music is kinda flat by comparison.

I decided to look for some kind of upgrade for the cheap dac. That was going to mean some kind of preamplifier as well in order to be able to have my other digital source as well.

I've been looking for a solution that keeps the Beocenter 9000 but that's not so easy, or inexpensive.

Not many people are trying to do what I want to. So right now I am looking at a cd player which incorporates a full dac and preamplifier. It's gonna cost about £1000 for an Audiolab 8300cdq. I don't want the cd player but I can't find anything similar that does not have the cd transport.

With the Audiolab I can pension off the Beocenter 9000 but I don't want to do that. The dac quality should be about similar to the Allo Digital and I will have very nice TV sound for both audio and video. That's very convenient but music sources from the TV won't be quite as good as from the external streamer - but fine for party/background use.

Bloody hi-fi, rabbit holes, pain in the arse.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #64 on: July 19, 2020, 05:48:01 PM »
I seem to have caught a bug!

. . . . .

Bloody hi-fi, rabbit holes, pain in the arse.

As long as the above does not occur simultaneously you are okay.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #65 on: July 19, 2020, 06:04:39 PM »
I seem to have caught a bug!

I am loving the sound of the system I put together above. I ended up falling down a rabbit hole. Here's what happened.

I wanted to run my TV audio through the Beocenter 9000. Problem is that the TV has either a headphone output or a digital output for sound (yes there's hdmi but that's another story).

I started out using the headphone output to the hi-fi. It was OK but absolutely not comparable to the digital output from my streamer/dac. I thought,did some reading and decided to buy, on a reviewer's recommendation, an inexpensive digital to audio converter from Amazon. It cost me about $15 and meets all the expectations that the reviewer suggested.

But, given that I can run my Roon music server, Spotify and Tidal through the TV as well as the Allo Digital system I quickly found that music is kinda flat by comparison.

I decided to look for some kind of upgrade for the cheap dac. That was going to mean some kind of preamplifier as well in order to be able to have my other digital source as well.

I've been looking for a solution that keeps the Beocenter 9000 but that's not so easy, or inexpensive.

Not many people are trying to do what I want to. So right now I am looking at a cd player which incorporates a full dac and preamplifier. It's gonna cost about £1000 for an Audiolab 8300cdq. I don't want the cd player but I can't find anything similar that does not have the cd transport.

With the Audiolab I can pension off the Beocenter 9000 but I don't want to do that. The dac quality should be about similar to the Allo Digital and I will have very nice TV sound for both audio and video. That's very convenient but music sources from the TV won't be quite as good as from the external streamer - but fine for party/background use.

Bloody hi-fi, rabbit holes, pain in the arse.

$15 will not get you a proper DAC, not now, not on the 4th of never.

Return that first if you’re still able to and then start over with a proper one.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/2019-high-end-audio-buyers-guide-dacs/

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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #66 on: July 19, 2020, 06:20:12 PM »
I’ll give you a few clues.

The first DAC is about the lowest price you should expect to pay as a quality fix for mobile devices.

1.
https://www.whathifi.com/us/cyrus/soundkey/review

2.
IPod fixes. Somewhat complicated. IIRC Manny is very good at this sort of thing as he’s an inventor of consumer stuff.

https://www.iflash.xyz/modding-audiophile-meets-ipod-diymod/

3.
A compact pile of Schiit.. Exactly what Andy needs, I suspect. Featuring John Darko of Darko Audio.


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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #67 on: July 19, 2020, 09:54:59 PM »
IIRC Manny is very good at this sort of thing as he’s an inventor of consumer stuff.


This area isn’t within my sphere of knowledge at all.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #68 on: July 20, 2020, 01:08:20 AM »
Yeah, the £15 thing is surprisingly decent. I was, and am, impressed.

The idea is to end up with something as decent as what I already have but is convenient to use. The Schiit stuff does not cut it on quality or convenience. I looked at that option.

What I am after falls between two stools. The output from the TV will always be limited. Its good that I am able to easily get the digital audio signal but it's never going to be the best. Main issue will be jitter. Any dac needs also to deal with jitter. Most cheap dacs don't do reclocking.

The Allo Digital Boss is better than pretty much anything less than £1000, except for other Allo Digital equipment but it's not particularly convenient to use more than one unit.

I need remote control of volume and source - for convenience. I want app based control so I can do the same from elsewhere in my home.

I like the cd player in the Beocenter, its surprisingly good for such an old device but it uses a surpringly good Phillips module.

Ideally I'd buy a preamplifier with analogue and digital inputs. Such a beast no longer seems to exist. Manufacturers make amplifiers with that functionality. There's streaming devices that do what I want but don't offer analogue inputs.

The only device class that offers what I want is stuff like the Audiolab 8300cdq with a cd mechanism. That gives a dac that's similar to the Allo Digital Boss for sound. That functions with Roon for remote control. It gives app based and infrared remote control. It offers reclocking of all digital inputs so it'll clean up the TV audio, but it makes the B&O unit superfluous with the cd unit.

There's alternatives from Quad, Rotel, NAD but I haven't seen a pre-amp that does all the above that doesn't also include the cd mechanism.
I get it. Cd is dying, mechanisms are cheap and the cd needs the digital stuff to work. Put the whole gubbins in one box, lower the overall cost and keep cd viable.

...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #69 on: July 20, 2020, 05:14:29 AM »
I seem to have caught a bug!

. . . . .

Bloody hi-fi, rabbit holes, pain in the arse.

As long as the above does not occur simultaneously you are okay.

I am definitely OK.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #70 on: July 20, 2020, 05:29:45 AM »

$15 will not get you a proper DAC, not now, not on the 4th of never.

Return that first if you’re still able to and then start over with a proper one.

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/2019-high-end-audio-buyers-guide-dacs/

It is surprising just how OK the thing is!
I bought it to try out what I was doing. For the TV it is great, for movies it is just fine. For music it is a tad flat. I reckon that most people would be entirely happy with the device, they are a great value! There's no doubt about it though, sound is much, much, better than taking the analogue output from the TV to the Hi-Fi.

What I had not expected was that I'd end up wanting, sometimes, to use the TV for music. Having installed it, I found that my Roon server picked up the TV as an output - that was unexpected!

Having Roon on my TV was great because it mean that I could be lazy and listen to music without touching any remote controls. It also gave me a display of what I was playing on the screen. A few weeks ago Roon updated so that ALL my Roon devices could output a display to my TV screen which is a handy trick.

I can afford to lose €15 for the DAC, but it will likely find a new home in my bedroom system.

By the way, Roon is a simply wonderful way to engage with one's music. https://www.whathifi.com/advice/roon-everything-you-need-to-know Imagine something like Netflix for music. It merges my own music files with those from Tidal and other sources (I only use Tidal with Roon) and gives great insights into one's own collection - information about albums, tracks and artistes. I can track versions on my server and choose which to play, or delete low quality alternates. The system makes suggestions for music to listen to and curates playlists and a very easy and pleasant fashion.

For those inclined to fiddle, Roon has all sorts of twiddly bits, including DSP controls. It offers multi-room playback like Sonos does but with much higher quality and just an easy button click on the apps or on the server PC.

I can't imagine not using Roon henceforth.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #71 on: July 20, 2020, 09:12:52 AM »

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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #72 on: July 20, 2020, 10:11:32 AM »
Looks OK, but I have absolutely no need for an amplifier. The speakers are biamped active thingies. I have no plans to change those. I can't afford anything that's likely to improve on those. Hence my search for the pre-amp type option.

I can live with the cd on the basis that I'd expect the transport and output to be better than is in the Beocenter and, frankly, the cost of adding a cd mechanism is tiny in comparison to the cost of the amplifier.

The Denon is rather light on digital inputs and a quick look suggests it is not able to be a Roon endpoint so I'd need to use my Allo Digital unit for that. The options I have been looking at most seriously all function as a Roon endpoint.

Once you've used Roon you're unlikely to want to give that up there's nothing like it, even if you don't have your own music library.

I now have a tablet on a charging stand that is the main controller for Roon, running the system in my living room.
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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #73 on: July 20, 2020, 11:46:29 PM »
Andrew, sorry I didn’t clarify, I was only posting one of the amplifiers I would like to own for myself.

What you’re trying to accomplish seems very complicated and if I were you would consider contacting an audio professional or perhaps asking questions on a blog for audiophiles or perhaps at one of the online audio magazines.

I like very simple yet high quality two channel setups for the most part.


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Re: New and Old HiFi - Old Happy Man
« Reply #74 on: July 20, 2020, 11:51:23 PM »
This review sounds interesting but I am zonked, good nite.  :chuckle:

https://headfonics.com/earmen-donald-dac-review/