Would you buy real estate in Ukraine right now?

[andrewfi]

Moby, go and do some learning before trying to troll your betters.

I can't speak for all commercial landlords, but the people who know what they are doing tend to have these things called leases. A lease means that the owner is usually not liable for rates on unoccupied properties. Likewise, a lease tends to mean that the property is not unoccupied.

As a residential property owner I cannot turn my home into money on demand. It is not liquid. Most people pay a mortgage, on average, in the UK they also move house every 5 years or so. This the effect in practical terms is very similar to renting, an ongoing monthly payment that increases over time.

The only time one gets money from the home you live in is when moving to a cheaper, usually less nice home, when constrained by old age poverty.

In the USA and, as I recall, the UK, house prices in general have gone up less than the stock market over the past few decades. Of course the stock market is a fully diversified risk whereas a single home offers no diversification at all and is thus quite a risky proposition if thought of as a investment.

Given that the cost of buying a home is only a part of the cost of ownership, for many people, renting costs less than buying. It depends on your circumstances. Put the difference into the stock market. Or, just rent, the money is dead anyway, it is consumption, the price of living.

[rosco]

Personally, I'm looking at a 20% rental yield and full rate relief on my units.

Hmm, who was the guy who told us about a good profit on a pop up shop ?

WHY do you think such short term lets are available ?

Completely different business ventures and unrelated. I’ve no idea what that reply was supposed to even suggest??

[msmoby]

Dear Andrewfi,

You are a hoot

1/ Residential rental

We know you are snobby about the likes of Airbnb but such schemes can turn one's property into a money-making machine .Having tried it from the aspect of a client/host, I would recommend being on premises.

As for Business Rates, please explain what happens when one's lease is terminated via a Ltd. liability company ceasing trading or bankruptcy?


I can only assume, Andrewfi is once more  Googling as his 'response' surely demonstrates limited experience.

[NS1]

what does the several of these posts have to do with buying property in Ukraine?

[Guile]

what does the several of these posts have to do with buying property in Ukraine?

Nothing.. as usual the resident "Tangent Man" veers it off course.  As investments I wouldn't buy foreign property in a country where it's unstable and possible that you could lose it with no recourse.  Unless you're so rich that you don't care lol.

Being a landlord requires dealing with bad tenants, property taxes, maintenance, utilities...it ain't just listing on Airbnb and renting it out lol.

[AvHdB]

I can't speak for all commercial landlords, but the people who know what they are doing tend to have these things called leases. A lease means that the owner is usually not liable for rates on unoccupied properties. Likewise, a lease tends to mean that the property is not unoccupied.

It is not entirely clear what Andrew is attempting to say. But an unoccupied property in most cases only costs the owner income. It really does not matter where the property is located and what type of property it is.

As for Business Rates, please explain what happens when one's lease is terminated via a Ltd. liability company ceasing trading or bankruptcy?

ms it is sort of clear that you are clueless, not that that is surprising. If you are a tenant either residential or commercial with a legal lease even if the holding party (owner) goes belly up (bankrupt) in The Netherlands and The United States your lease can not just be terminated. Yes there are exceptional cases but this is the norm.

Most judges will look with disdain on terminating leases make in good will where the rent is current and the conditions of said lease are being met.

As for acquiring property in Kiev unless you are fluent with the local conditions and have boots on the ground, this is a risky investment. A while back I read of some funds that had picnic baskets of properties and you could acquire interests (shares) in these funds.

[andrewfi]

Avhdb, in the context of commercial premises, in the UK there are local taxes often informally called rates that are paid to the local authority. A tenant in a rented property will usually be liable for those taxes. The owner does not become liable if the tenant defaults on those taxes.

However, if a property is untenanted then the owner is liable for these taxes, commonly called 'rates'.

In general, a properly arranged lease will make sure that  the liability is clear and can be demonstrated to the local authority.

If a tenant wishes to leave the premises before the end of the lease, he is liable for those taxes even if the property is left vacant.

When a tenant indicates that he wishes to leave the premises before the end of the contract it is common to expect the tenant to find an acceptable replacement.

When a tenancy ends and does not wish to renew or extend then the owner will seek to minimise any vacancy by marketing the premises in a timely fashion. If the premises are of decent quality (location, condition etc.) then there should be little or no downtime and, in my experience, the new tenant is ready to take over the premises and thus liability for taxes etc. from the date of the previous tenancy ending. For example, in a recent case that I was involved with, the previous tenant closed due to the business going into administration (a form of bankruptcy). As soon as the shop was not being opened up by the tenant's staff we received several good offers from businesses wishing to use the premises. This was before we even got to the point of marketing the place. The offers are around 50% higher than the existing tenant was paying.

The liability for the rates remains with the company in administration. Due to complications arising from the bankruptcy proceedings we cannot relet the premises just yet. We are now creditors of the failed business for unpaid rent, as is the local council for rates. In this case we see a good chance to be paid the arrears.

Whatever happens, we will have new tenants paying higher rent immediately that the premises become available. We will not be liable for the rates at any time during the process.

All of this is, of course, mediated through a well written tenancy agreement that minimises or removes liability of the owner for the property taxes.

As property owners we are keen to minimise potential liability for property taxes and other expenses related to the properties.

It was clear that Moby had no idea about any of this stuff and was, in essence, making stuff up.

[AvHdB]

Andrew, Thank you for expanding and clarifying your post. Makes sense now.

[andrewfi]

No problem!
Please note that I am not a property lawyer and do not play one on TV. In the case of any inaccuracies in terminology and detail a full refund of any monies paid to me for this information will be made using the same form of payment as was used for the  original purchase.

[Guile]

It was clear that Moby had no idea about any of this stuff and was, in essence, making stuff up.

I didn't expect anything less.  Like how he mentioned "Black Friday" as a stock crash!  That's the name given for a shopping sale typically after US Thanksgiving. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Friday_(shopping)

Black Monday was the crash.  And not even the most recent, it was 30 yrs ago.  The dot.com and 2008 crash were far more devastating.  US markets lost 50% but now 10 yrs later they are wayyyyy high.

Those who have money to invest in stocks and bonds and educate themselves in prudent investing will do very well.  Those who don't....well....

[msmoby]

Andrewfi,

1/ The first use of 'Black Friday' term was in the context of a stock market crash...but that was 1869...My howler was indeed meant to cover Black Monday...a more recent 1987 variant.

2/ Your 'explanation' to AvHdB ...which he and some others have swallowed as 'factual' proves you and they are someone 'uninformed'...

I posted a link as to who is ultimately liable for business rates in an unoccupied, business rateable property. ...

In hard times, if the lease holder tells the lessee that they are ceasing trading and go into.liquidation with no assets, the only option for the Landlord is to declare the lease void...

One gets three months grace re business rates in such situations if the commercial property is not rented out, again. Was the gov.jk link that hard to comprehend?

3/ NS1 I would not buy a property in Ukraine or anywhere as a short-term investment, just now...

4/ UK wise those investing in non commercial property since c.2000 have done better overall than those investing in equities.