Visiting Kiev and making (almost) every possible mistake : Round 2!

[Steveboy]

lots of these scammers will tell you it is not easy to visit them because they are in a war zone ..

Well that is actually true!!  The difference is the war is between you and the scammers and all that ride with them, and that's how you need to think of it..

So as soon as "boots are on the ground" treat the whole trip like you are in a bloody battle field kill or be killed..

1. At no costs part with any money it is simple as that.. if some bitch takes you to a restaurant and it looks like the bill is going to be more than expected.. wait for her to go for a piss then leave..leave with out paying the bill and leave the problem with her..

2. never tell any women where you are staying in Kiev unless you actually hit it off but new eating say you are staying at some other hotel.. just in case you need to leave early and leave the bill for her..

3. DO not in any circumstances accept any help from the sucka's friends, it will usually be a friend who just happens to be a taxi driver or some other shit NEVER MEET HER FRIENDS!!

4. Don't get *** around the very second  you think she's after your cash drop her there and then, where ever you are are.. who gives a shit? You do not know her and she knows little about you or even where you're staying..

5, Trust no one..

6. Your in war only the fittest survive if you want to be a real Ukrainain women hunter act like a hunter..take no shit and kill if you have to..

7. Stay alive alive at all costs..

8. Never take any alcohol at some women house you do not know.. could find yourself robbed during the night..

9. kill kill kill or they will kill you!! Stay as a lean mean killing Ukrainian women searcher...

Do that the rest is easy.. so next you need some girls to meet?

Simple Tinder!! as easy as 1--2-3 if  your there in Kiev.. Be blunt straight to the point, say some bullshit like your living there (that way less chance of some stupid women thinking she has stupid foreigner after her..you can meet loads on Tinder.. But be brutal!! meet in some NORMAL bar for a few drinks.. the second you think she's playing for expensive food.. dump her e there and then.. in fact while you are sat with her also be on Tinder planning some other meetings.. stuff what she thinks she is a no body..

Go to some night clubs!! Easy to pick up just a NORMAL girl not looking for a foreigner..

Just be bloody ruthless all the time you are there.. remember your in a WAR zone!! you may think what I said is crazy BUT it is true!

While I will say LS didn't scam me to the maximum possible extent - she took me to reasonable places and would ask before ordering - she just is a little grabby on taxi fare - I think you are somewhat correct.  I just read of a recent (last 3 months) report/guide to how a man handled the girls here.  And yeah, somewhat like handling high level nuclear waste.

Yes a bloody war zone.. get yours self some ear plugs listen to some good Vietnam war music full blast and get out there amongst it..

Try Tinder.. marriage agencies are a total wast of time especially for some guy your age.. ok if your looking for an older women and happen to find a good agency (not easy) you may have some chance..

But young women? naaaaa they don't go for that shit any more.. it would be like asking some girl to go use a call box to call her friend.. you think some young modern girl will use a prehistoric way of meeting guys? Of course not!

[Halo]

99.5 % are scams for sure.. im sure there maybe a few honest ones.. remember your in Ukraine.. few are honest there..as you already found out..

There is virtually ZERO difference between people in Ukraine or Russia.  But because Ukraine has become the "hub" of Eastern Europe's "MOB" business, and so many foreign men come to Ukraine for that purpose and/or cheap sex, any industry involving meeting women has some scam factor built in.  Women there are incredibly jaded when it comes to foreign men.

While I will say LS didn't scam me to the maximum possible extent - she took me to reasonable places and would ask before ordering.

The average Ukrainian can't eat somewhere that is $15 per person often.

So given the cost level is about 1/3 that in Ukraine, and also fairly low in Russia except in Moscow, and the average monthly salary is 385 a month, and almost all girls are Caucasian and slim, I suspect, if you could find the girls who don't yet have gucci everything...such as younger college students, and communicate with them your offer, you could probably readily find takers who would enter into an arrangement.  For about 1/2 to 1/3 the USA price.

Anyways this is all theory, I guess I would need to conduct some experiments to validate my hypothesis.

The reason I am thinking I need to shift to a new strategy is that walking about Kiev, I realize that I am only going to live or even remain " able" for so long, and I should be getting it while the getting is good.  And I see all these 9.5/10 22 year old hotties just everywhere, realize that they would not marry me, but I still want them.  So how can I make this happen?  I realize the only reason I had been thinking "marriage" was because I am only permitted so many days by my corporate masters to be here.  (and thus I have to bring a girl home, and the US state department is not chill with men bringing their mistresses home)

But the real fix is not to marry a 5/10 girl, it's to get a different set of corporate masters who allow me more remote work and enjoy a few years of life with various 9.5/10 women...

    There are plenty of Ukrainian men who are making salaries comparable to yours, and lots that are making far, far higher amounts, that 9/10 Ukrainian women are marrying, or to whom they are mistresses.  You will never be able to compete with those men, in many respects. 

I also disagree with Steve that you will be less likely to be scammed if you say you are living in Ukraine.  You are still a foreigner, and always will be.

Finally, the biggest "scam" site in the world is US based, so location is irrelevant to this.

[Manny]

I can't speak to the inability of folks to distinguish sounds. However it seems clear to me that there is a big difference between the sounds I shared and the sound of the word 'nigger'. Those sounds also reflect the words that I know and that I provided rough transliteration of the other day.

I few of my Russian friends have said that word in English to me and it sounds the same.  They would ask "Are there alot of nigg*rs in America?"  And I would tell them to not say that, especially to a black person.

Why not just tell the truth and say, yes?

[Manny]

99.5 % are scams for sure.. im sure there maybe a few honest ones.. remember your in Ukraine.. few are honest there..as you already found out..

There is virtually ZERO difference between people in Ukraine or Russia.  But because Ukraine has become the "hub" of Eastern Europe's "MOB" business, and so many foreign men come to Ukraine for that purpose and/or cheap sex, any industry involving meeting women has some scam factor built in.  Women there are incredibly jaded when it comes to foreign men.

You said there was zero difference, and then went on to illustrate the major difference. 

The OP, Habeed, uses a middle eastern moniker but says he is "pure blood American" which is meaningless. I'd suggest a pure blood American is a native one, a "Red Indian" as we used to call them. Anyone else is a child of immigrants surely? The US is built on immigration.

A better question for Habeed is what ethnicity are you? Because if middle eastern or other non-white, this will hamper you and impact the advice you receive. That is relevant.

Currently, I am unsure if this chap is preaching to us as to how he thinks things should be, or asking advice from those who wear the t-shirt. I'm thinking he is talking at us, as he doesn't take advice or acknowledge inconvenient replies that dont fit his narrative. 

Habeed, do you want advice from people who know this stuff inside out or would you like to tell our members how you think life should be?

[Guile]

I few of my Russian friends have said that word in English to me and it sounds the same.  They would ask "Are there alot of nigg*rs in America?"  And I would tell them to not say that, especially to a black person.

Why not just tell the truth and say, yes?

I think you misread my post.  I am telling them not to say the word "n*gger".  Of course I know there's alot of black people in the USA. I hang with da brothas alot.  Meet me in Compton or Riverside lol.

[Guile]

There is virtually ZERO difference between people in Ukraine or Russia. 

    There are plenty of Ukrainian men who are making salaries comparable to yours, and lots that are making far, far higher amounts, that 9/10 Ukrainian women are marrying, or to whom they are mistresses.  You will never be able to compete with those men, in many respects. 

I also disagree with Steve that you will be less likely to be scammed if you say you are living in Ukraine.  You are still a foreigner, and always will be.

Finally, the biggest "scam" site in the world is US based, so location is irrelevant to this.

Wrong. I know both Ukrainians and Russians. Most don't like each other and would say their are big differences.

There aren't that many oligarchs in the Ukraine.  Moscow yes.  There are plenty of poor Ukrainian girls to go around.  He's not competing with those men.  You obviously haven't lived in Russia and dated local women there.  Useless info as usual from the 60+ western woman who doesn't even live in Ukraine.

[cufflinks]

Manny what sort of candid feedback have you had from men who may have used your primary adverts company to the right of this forum?

[justadude]

No one I know goes for a 2 week visit trying to find a wife. 

I humbly and respectfully disagree

[justadude]

Hey Habeed, I applaud your openness. I will try to stick to I statements and not try to extrapolate how my experiences might extend to someone else. I'm sorry you have gotten such a small amount of validation and so much criticism. I'd like to say that most of the guys mean well here, but I don't really believe that's the case. I think it's unfortunate that posters feel such an apparent need to belittle, especially when we are talking about something as delicate as romantic relations. Having said that, there is a lot of collective wisdom here (ok wisdom might be a stretch. Collective knowledge), although tapping into it can often be frustrating.

I'm middle aged, make about $10K less per year than you, own real estate and some cool cars, am thin and in shape for my age, have all my hair, and am 2 inches above average height for US males.

I have made 4 trips to Ukraine. I have been engaged to two UA girls, both of whom were quite a bit younger than me and attractive (8s or 9s in the right clothes). One of them came to the US and lived with me for 70 days. I behaved poorly and decided not to marry.

While dating them in Ukraine we ate $20 dinners. I didn't buy them gifts. I sent the first girl less than $500 over the 3 months our engagement lasted. I bought them both $300 engagement rings. I sent the second girl $1500 for transportation to the US. But I gave her $5K in guilt money after I  called it off because I wanted to try to help her get back on her feet. The first girl was diagnosed with a nervous breakdown and spent a few weeks in an institution after I broke it off. My experiences were arguably disasters from a human standpoint. And although it may seem like they paid the price, watching others suffer because of my poor choices took a toll on me.

I don't consider myself to be a Casanova or much of a success by any measure, really.

Having said all of that, I am planning a return trip.

These are a few of my conclusions:

1. UA women are friendlier to me than US women.

2. I can date/marry a hotter/"higher value" UA woman than I can a US woman.

3. I get lonely easily. I was lonelier in Ukraine than when I am at home.

4. Romantic relationships, and the pursuit thereof, whether at home or abroad, are very difficult for me to navigate!

I sent you a PM.

[justadude]

No one I know goes for a 2 week visit trying to find a wife. 

I humbly and respectfully disagree

Then again, I guess I don't really know you yet.

[andrewfi]

Justadude, in the interest of clarity. What is the status of your ongoing relationship with the American woman? The one with whom you were betraying your last Ukrainian fiancée?

Does she not treat you as well as the poor woman you lied to, betrayed, and drove away?

How is the mental health of your second victim? Is she recovering from the torment you put her through?

[Manny]

Manny what sort of candid feedback have you had from men who may have used your primary adverts company to the right of this forum?

I don't get too much feedback at all, but most of these sites do what they need to do for those who use them. Any marriages are really a side event and not really much to do with the actual business model.

[andrewfi]

The 'business' always has been about revenues generated by the >95% of fantasists and fappers. Marriages are the acceptable justification for the vast majority of paying clients to keep paying and fapping.

[Habeed]

Answering two queries : when I said American I meant a white dude only marginally distinguishable from the crowd of Ukrainians around me.  I think a sharp eye might see my facial structure is different but that's about it.

And second, regarding my mistress proposal I was contemplating: average incomes are averages.  In order for the average to be 400 USD a month, or whatever it is including black market income, there have to be an awful lot of poor Ukrainian men and women for every rich one.  So if it came to a bidding war for Miss Ukraine 2018, sure, I would lose, but I would be perfectly happy with about a third of the girls I see on the street.

[andrewfi]

Sponsorship can be fun but has its own drawbacks. Not the least being that if one is not there very often, or for long, it is a waste of money.

Emotionally it can be a problem too because while she sees it as a money transaction, guys tend to not do so. I reckon the arrangement best suits married guys. Most girls who do it are, I reckon, aged well under 30. The older ones are often hookers looking for regular clients. Some might say there's not much difference in practice.

As for money, no woman is likely to come to an exclusive arrangement where she only gets 'average income' that makes no sense for her. A very good looking woman will incur costs that are not met on 'average wages'. Also, her expectations, realistic or not, will not be met by such a low wage.

[B.B.]

That said, Russian women are cautious of blacks as they dont know much about them.

The Slavic women I know generally do not have a positive view of blacks.  From time to time, women I am involved with ask if there are any blacks where I live and seem a bit relieved when I tell them no, and not to worry, they will feel like a "girl behind a stone wall", as their saying goes.

Why not just tell the truth and say, yes?

It depends on where you are.  A black friend of mine sometimes stops in on his way to or from NYC.  When he does he's "the black guy" in town that day.

In other places, there will be loads. 

B/B

[Guile]

No one I know goes for a 2 week visit trying to find a wife. 

I humbly and respectfully disagree

I meant no one I know personally!   

[Halo]

You said there was zero difference, and then went on to illustrate the major difference. 

There is zero difference between the people.  If the "MOB" industry existed in Russia as it does in Ukraine, the same issues would arise continuously in Russia. 

The Russian economy improved and hence, the "MOB" industry dried up.  In Ukraine, the economy is poor, unlike in Russia, there is no social safety net, high unemployment, and people scramble to make money.

The Russian government put pressure on the "industry", first with lots of newspaper articles recounting the tales of women who moved abroad and did not find happiness, then with what the country was losing.  It also cracked down legally, with tax investigations and shutdown of agencies, and prosecution of scammers - not individual women, but organized large scale scamming.  Do you remember when Yoshkar Ola was the scam capital of the "MOB" industry?

[andrewfi]

That said, Russian women are cautious of blacks as they dont know much about them.

The Slavic women I know generally do not have a positive view of blacks.  From time to time, women I am involved with ask if there are any blacks where I live and seem a bit relieved when I tell them no, and not to worry, they will feel like a "girl behind a stone wall", as their saying goes.


B/B

That's my experience, but I think it is a lack of familiarity rather than 'racism' per se. The racism is for other groups, as Manny mentioned.

Younger women have a curiosity that tends to add value to a decent looking young black guy - at least for short term relationships. The only older black guy I knew well in Estonia, which is pretty similar to what I saw of Russia in this kind of stuff, was married to a white woman but got on well with local women socially. Actually, one other black guy, west Indian bloke, jazz musician, also older did pretty damn fine. Was that a colour thing or a 'fame' thing? I don't really know.

[cufflinks]

man with all that money for tours maybe I should set up my own tour company in Russia!

LOL...

Guile wrote:

"Man with all that money for tours maybe I should set up my own tour company in Russia!"

Key is to focus on upscale tours with plenty of 2nd passport hunting ladies looking for a real plan B in case the SHTF in mother Russia after Putin and Medvedev are no longer Czars of Modern Russia.

I am sure I can supply a lot of clients - the Elizabeth Warren/Kamala Harris Marxist Socialial Justice Warrior women are bloody insufferable - any feminine Russian women who have no desire to live like a starving Cuban, Venezuelan and or Nicaraguan socialist would be a far better life mate...

Shoot me an email to my [PM me for the address] address and I will give you a heads up on the project I have been focused 100% on the past two years...

Cheers,

Mike "Cufflinks"

P.S. I tried to send Guile a PM and it said User Guile can not receive private messages???  Is he retired KGB ;-)

[Guile]

I personally know several Russian women in their 20's-30's who only want to date a foreign, specifically North American guy.  Not European or British.

They are all in Moscow.  If I can set something up next time I am there I'll get the ball rolling.  Now these girls aren't model 10's mind you.  But they are real and attractive and feminine.  Some have decent English.

One actually went to the USA to get married to a Russian/American guy! Another is in Texas doing her Masters degree but she's married already.

And I have a few more but they are for me 

[shakespear]

That said, Russian women are cautious of blacks as they dont know much about them.

The Slavic women I know generally do not have a positive view of blacks.  From time to time, women I am involved with ask if there are any blacks where I live and seem a bit relieved when I tell them no, and not to worry, they will feel like a "girl behind a stone wall", as their saying goes.

There was a time when black men were in vogue in the nightclubs of Moscow.  It was kind of an experimental thing for about 2 years. 

[Contrarian]

About me: I've been a member of this site for a long time, but due to circumstances in my life, at the ripe old age of 36 I finally was able to actually get on a plane.  I'm a white male who is 2 inches below average height by U.S. standards (as most members here will know, this drastically lowers my chances on the US side), I look younger than macaulay culkin who's my age, and my BMI is 24.9*.  I work as an embedded software engineer in the USA and earn the typical low six figures most of us make. 

One of the challenges in my search is I don't know what this equates to in "market value"**.  Here in Kiev I see countless versions of the long legged brunette, basically Lily James.  This is what my subconscious mind scores the highest in terms of value - a woman with light brown hair like mine, and the thinner the better.  (ribs showing but not starving basically)  I don't know if I could win over one in her mid 20s, or early 30s, or I have to settle for an overweight woman with children who's 35. 

In Round 1, I visited Kiev in December 2019.  I met with 2 women I met through a single website, UKD:

LS Date 1.  With LS, I met her at Sam's Steak House.  She's a former professional handball player.  She has a pretty face and a great smile.  Our first date, we talk and talk about things in the USA.  I try to explain to her how things like health insurance works, how the legal system works, and so on.  Insightful stuff and I have no game, talking to me has been described as talking to a walking copy of wikipedia.  However, she does smile at what I say and seems to enjoy the conversation.  Here's where I first encounter outright racism in the USA, she asks if it's true we have n******* there.  I explain how you can't ever say the word as a Caucasian person there, how I have black friends and coworkers but unfortunately there are very high crime areas in the USA you must avoid, and those areas are generally high percentages of black people.  At the end of the date we walk and I notice she is significantly taller than me.  Also, she adamantly refuses to wait for the taxi in my apartment, and asks for ~1000 UAH for round trip taxi fare.  We agree to a date the next day at the Kiev War museum.
         I have photos from this date and all subsequent dates, how should I handle faces?

LS Date 2 - We went to the war museum in Kiev with the statue***.  It's quite cold for me outside, but we check out the Hind gunship they have****  We go inside one of the cargo planes, check out the old tanks they have parked, etc.  I notice how LS is concerned about my well being and when she notices I'm cold, we rush inside to the indoor portion of this museum.  As it turns out, this museum graphically illustrates the horrors of war.  They have all sorts of artifacts of death, often placed in spots where museum visitors are tempted to touch them, but the museum is using state of the art security!  Babushka is watching!  They have older women positioned in each room, where you can clearly see they are there and watching you.   I saw this kind of security many places.  LS seems fascinated by the artifacts, like going out to a place like this is new for her.  We then go to a pasta restaurant, after an hour long cab ride through Kiev traffic, where hand rolled fettucine and salmon for 2 people is under $40 U.S. We say our goodbyes.  No physical affection so far, and as usual she gets ~1000 UAH for taxi fare...

SL Date 1 After saying goodbye to LS, I go to meet with SL at a much nicer restaurant.  SL is physically about the best anyone can do.  She listed her age at 27, she has a pretty face, a slim body, and photos from when she competed in bikini fitness competitions.  A hard 9.  (a 10 would be SL at age 20)  We talk and talk, and she engages in the same casual racism as LS.  I was so distracted by her beauty I am having trouble remember what else we talked about.  The restaurant bill is around $80 even though I didn't eat anything, and she departs but only asks for 500 UAH in taxi fare. 

LS Date 3 We go to Grill de Brazil.  It's about $60 for unlimited food for 2 people plus some beers.  We talk and talk, and after the data LS wants to know if we can go watch a movie together.  At this point I might mention another fact about LS - she's somewhat overweight.  By U.S. standards she's not bad, but compared to SL or the average girl I see on the street, LS is fat.  I'm not feeling it, and I send her off, since I am almost late to my date with SL...

SL Date 2 - we eat in a really nice restaurant this time.  It's maximally romantic, with wine and a great view and everything else.  The tab is around $140 US, and again I didn't eat anything.  She kisses me afterwards, rather expertly with tongue and everything.  So..

SL Date 3 This is it.  (I think).  So I buy some nice new expensive clothes from the shop in Gulliver's.  ($240).  I get my hair cut ($15).  I go to see SL looking about as good as possible, and she has me meet in a phone store in Gulliver's.  She's "just shopping".  I...somehow end up buying her a $240 smartphone.

SL/LS Date 4.  This is when my lies catch up to me and I run into LS at the same time I have not gotten rid of SL.    So they meet, it's a little awkward, but we go to eat at the Sushi place in Gulliver's.  Also LS has brought a friend of hers, so now it's 3 girls and just me.  I have to admit this feels pretty good though it's apparently just a typical Tuesday in Kiev.  LS and her friend leave and it's just me and SL.  We make out in the mall lobby but I just can't close the deal. 

SL Date 5 - this time at a hyper expensive place, one right next to some government buildings.  There went another $120 or so.  Again can't close, but she does a little bit of heavy petting.  At this point I'm getting frustrated, this woman seems to be a black hole for my money and also I'm not getting any benefits in return...

LS Date 5 -  We go out to the pizza restaurant in Gulliver's.  As usual, it's far more reasonably priced.  Like $30 for 2 people with desert.  In the mall. 

SL Date 6 - Cafe.  She now needs to buy some medicine at the pharmacy.  Can I say no to a beautiful woman who isn't having sex with me?  I must cringe and admit I paid the bill.  Then she loaded her cart up with over $200 of groceries at the store.  Paid that also...Then she left me alone, again

LS Date 7 - we go to left bank for lunch.  It's about $40 total with cab fare.  We are just dating as friends at this point. 

SL Date 7 - The penultimate.  So SL has been telling this story about how she's getting a new apartment and she needs all new appliances, etc.  So on this date she takes me to a construction site.  Accompanied by some guy, we climb ~15 flights of stairs to see this apartment she claims is going to be hers.  She then has me follow her, not telling me where we are going, until we are at an appliance store.  I'm a fool and I got taken...to this point.  I tell her off, deny her cab fare, and leave. 

*so I still have belly fat but a relatively small amount
**A match exactly at market value would be one where the woman just barely goes through with getting engaged to me, being tempted to switch to other potential partners but never quite hitting the threshold, and then stays married at least 2 years without accusing me of domestic violence to get her Green card early. 
***The Ukrainian State Museum of the Great Patriotic War
**** I find out that bulbous dome will probably not stop 7.62 fire.  Tom Clancy was exaggerating! It looks like you can readily shoot down a Hind with an AK-47 or RPK, which goes to explain all the problems the Soviets would later have in Afghanistan when their own weapons were used against them...

1.  You did NOT visit Ukraine in December 2019; that’s impossible.

2.  You think you “encountered outright racism” but you were in Ukraine, not the USA.

3.  Any woman who asked me for 1,000 Grivna for taxi but she didn’t put out? I would laugh in her face, tell her to take a bus or hitchhike and tell her to fcuk off. Better yet I would grab her by the wrist and let her know she can earn it, after she takes it up the keister and then deep$&@*#+s and swallows, in that order.

Dude grow a pair of balls! You just wasted what, close to a thousand dollars on LS, who you describe as being slightly overweight with sagging breasts?? No doubt she’s already married or with a long term boyfriend.

Scamming gullible foreigners is a way of life for these women, get out of Kiev, and hire a professional to keep you away from bloodsuckers like the ones you described above.

[Contrarian]

That said, Russian women are cautious of blacks as they dont know much about them.

The Slavic women I know generally do not have a positive view of blacks.  From time to time, women I am involved with ask if there are any blacks where I live and seem a bit relieved when I tell them no, and not to worry, they will feel like a "girl behind a stone wall", as their saying goes.

There was a time when black men were in vogue in the nightclubs of Moscow.  It was kind of an experimental thing for about 2 years.

Sure, en Vogue with the type of women who were desperate enough to give you a BJ in a bathroom stall. 

[Guile]

why would a white guy use an arabic username and talk about girls saying the N word?!  Something ain't right...