Armageddon?

[andrewfi]

Pity that there was no rain of death. I wonder who was kidding whom? Had he been misled about what happened or was he trying to mislead you?

[Contrarian]

Armageddon will have to wait until summer 2020. 

           

[Steveboy]

What If Iran Retaliates and Shuts Down the Strait of Hormuz?

It would be re-opened the moment that the US decided to re-open it.  Simples.

or he is just incredibly ignorant of America’s recent history of losing wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Go ask Saddam and OBL who won in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Oh, right.  They are "unavailable for comment." 

What a surprise. Pro-Russian apologists blame external forces instead of acknowledging the ethnic-centric Russian “us versus them” our Soviet way or the graveyard mentality. 

There are a few "Johnny One-Notes" on the board who will, with little prompting, sing their one-note song anti-American twaddle.  They remind me, in a slightly less pathetic way, of the folks who, when they could deny reality no more, changed their tune to "Just because communism lost doesn't mean capitalism won!" 

Well, yes, actually, it does.  Under socialism, people line up, waiting for bread; under capitalism, bread is lined up waiting for people. 

At any rate, Trump is not part of the Swamp.  He is a friend of our military and has not shown any interest in getting involved in wars on behalf of the Swamp.

I had a brief convo with him in the buffet line at Mar a Lago shortly after the bit with Syria.  I asked about his redistribution of cruise missiles to needy countries. Here's what he said:

"Oh that? That rain of death from above? I had to send a message. No chemical weapon attacks. Those are the rules, and I like it when people follow the rules. Try the crème brûlée, it's fantastic."

Thus, unless Iran does something extremely foolish and plays within their limits, their limits will not be further limited.

B/B

Go ask Saddam and OBL who won in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Oh, right.  They are "unavailable for comment."  

Put your money where your mouth is? Go invade Russia or China..? naaaaaaaa dont want to do that do you?

[msmoby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49053383

British-flagged oil tanker has been seized in the Gulf by Iranian Revolutionary Guard, Iran media say

[Contrarian]

What If Iran Retaliates and Shuts Down the Strait of Hormuz?

It would be re-opened the moment that the US decided to re-open it.  Simples.

or he is just incredibly ignorant of America’s recent history of losing wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Go ask Saddam and OBL who won in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Oh, right.  They are "unavailable for comment." 

What a surprise. Pro-Russian apologists blame external forces instead of acknowledging the ethnic-centric Russian “us versus them” our Soviet way or the graveyard mentality. 

There are a few "Johnny One-Notes" on the board who will, with little prompting, sing their one-note song anti-American twaddle.  They remind me, in a slightly less pathetic way, of the folks who, when they could deny reality no more, changed their tune to "Just because communism lost doesn't mean capitalism won!" 

Well, yes, actually, it does.  Under socialism, people line up, waiting for bread; under capitalism, bread is lined up waiting for people. 

At any rate, Trump is not part of the Swamp.  He is a friend of our military and has not shown any interest in getting involved in wars on behalf of the Swamp.

I had a brief convo with him in the buffet line at Mar a Lago shortly after the bit with Syria.  I asked about his redistribution of cruise missiles to needy countries. Here's what he said:

"Oh that? That rain of death from above? I had to send a message. No chemical weapon attacks. Those are the rules, and I like it when people follow the rules. Try the crème brûlée, it's fantastic."

Thus, unless Iran does something extremely foolish and plays within their limits, their limits will not be further limited.

B/B

Go ask Saddam and OBL who won in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Oh, right.  They are "unavailable for comment."  

Put your money where your mouth is? Go invade Russia or China..? naaaaaaaa dont want to do that do you?

That goes both ways Steveboy.

Russia and China won’t take their chances invading the USA anytime soon either. 

[Steveboy]

What If Iran Retaliates and Shuts Down the Strait of Hormuz?

It would be re-opened the moment that the US decided to re-open it.  Simples.

or he is just incredibly ignorant of America’s recent history of losing wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Go ask Saddam and OBL who won in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Oh, right.  They are "unavailable for comment." 

What a surprise. Pro-Russian apologists blame external forces instead of acknowledging the ethnic-centric Russian “us versus them” our Soviet way or the graveyard mentality. 

There are a few "Johnny One-Notes" on the board who will, with little prompting, sing their one-note song anti-American twaddle.  They remind me, in a slightly less pathetic way, of the folks who, when they could deny reality no more, changed their tune to "Just because communism lost doesn't mean capitalism won!" 

Well, yes, actually, it does.  Under socialism, people line up, waiting for bread; under capitalism, bread is lined up waiting for people. 

At any rate, Trump is not part of the Swamp.  He is a friend of our military and has not shown any interest in getting involved in wars on behalf of the Swamp.

I had a brief convo with him in the buffet line at Mar a Lago shortly after the bit with Syria.  I asked about his redistribution of cruise missiles to needy countries. Here's what he said:

"Oh that? That rain of death from above? I had to send a message. No chemical weapon attacks. Those are the rules, and I like it when people follow the rules. Try the crème brûlée, it's fantastic."

Thus, unless Iran does something extremely foolish and plays within their limits, their limits will not be further limited.

B/B

Go ask Saddam and OBL who won in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Oh, right.  They are "unavailable for comment."  

Put your money where your mouth is? Go invade Russia or China..? naaaaaaaa dont want to do that do you?

That goes both ways Steveboy.

Russia and China won’t take their chances invading the USA anytime soon either. 

Yes I agree.. But Russia has had a war on its home land recently, just like most of Europe.. we are used to having bombs dropped on our houses by the Germans recently...London was blitzed just like  many other places..

The US has never been blitzed can you imagine New York being bombed night after night by the Russians  or any one else..

Remember what happened to the US sailors who got taken by the Iranians a few years back? Crying cos they could not have their I Pads?

And remember half of the US is visiting a shrink most weeks..

How the hell would they manage being bombed night after night after night after night for a few years?

Don't think Tom Cruise will be able to help..

[andrewfi]

Don't worry, Tom Cruise retired from the navy a few years ago - 30 year rule.

Maybe his son will show up?

[2tallbill]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49053383

British-flagged oil tanker has been seized in the Gulf by Iranian Revolutionary Guard, Iran media say

They've seized two of them


Iran's Revolutionary Guard seizes two UK-operated tankers in Strait of Hormuz
https://www.foxnews.com/world/iran-revolutionary-guard-two-uk-tankers-strait-of-hormuz

[dcguyusa]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/us-military-has-begun-reoccupying-prince-sultan-air-base-in-saudi-arabia/ar-AAEzTWx

The invasion of Yemen appears to be imminent.   

[BillyB]

What's the posters from the UK think about two British ships tankers seized by Iran? Does the UK deserve it and do nothing?

[Contrarian]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49053383

British-flagged oil tanker has been seized in the Gulf by Iranian Revolutionary Guard, Iran media say

They've seized two of them


Iran's Revolutionary Guard seizes two UK-operated tankers in Strait of Hormuz
https://www.foxnews.com/world/iran-revolutionary-guard-two-uk-tankers-strait-of-hormuz

So what. The economic sanctions against Iran are an act of war which is being directed by an Israeli citizen on behalf of the illegitimate warmongering “nation” of Israel.

The nation which has Nuclear weapons but wants the USA to start a war against Iran, at a cost of yet another Trillion to the US taxpayer and hundreds of thousands or possibly Millions of lives, because they fear nuclear parity.

Israel being the only nation which attacked a US Navy vessel and killed over 30 sailors and wounded over a hundred, without a US response (USS Liberty).

An illegitimate nation which committed a major act of terrorism against the British (King David Hotel bombings).

A nation which routinely commits genocide against neighbors (White phosphorus bombings of Gaza and Lebanon).

A nation denounced by the United Nations more than 60 times and counting.

Keep watching Israeli controlled “mainstream” news. Who says propaganda doesn’t work?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.trtworld.com/middle-east/in-2018-israel-became-the-most-condemned-nation-at-the-un-22899/amp

[B.B.]

Put your money where your mouth is? Go invade Russia or China..? naaaaaaaa dont want to do that do you?

To prove what, exactly? 

That goes both ways Steveboy.

Russia and China won’t take their chances invading the USA anytime soon either. 

I still find the premise odd.  Sort of a "My dad can beat up your dad" thing, maybe?

But Russia has had a war on its home land recently, just like most of Europe.. we are used to having bombs dropped on our houses by the Germans recently...London was blitzed just like  many other places..

Recently?  I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Remind me when the last bombs fell on London?

Would would have to be in one's 80s to have any meaningful memory of it. 

The US has never been blitzed can you imagine New York being bombed night after night by the Russians  or any one else..
.....
How the hell would they manage being bombed night after night after night after night for a few years?

Who exactly has this capability? 

And odd that you should mention it, because 9-11, which most people alive have a memory of, is why OBL got snuffed.  Took a while to find him, but he went from basically being in charge of a country to being in charge of a cave.

At any rate, the narrative about how the US "lost" Iraq and Afghanistan is one of necessity for the Anti-US crowd.  Sure, it isn't true, but it must be, so it is. 

Meanwhile, it seems that No Longer So Great Britain is having some difficulties with Iran.  I wonder if the lads on the tankers got to keep their iPads?

I would not be at all surprised if Trump rides to the rescue - as American presidents so often have to do for Little Britain - just so he can make HM Government eat the whole crap sammich and tell him how good it tastes. 

B/B

[BillyB]

Israel being the only nation which attacked a US Navy vessel and killed over 30 sailors and wounded over a hundred, without a US response (USS Liberty).

Should America go to war over that or is no response a good thing?

[Contrarian]

Israel being the only nation which attacked a US Navy vessel and killed over 30 sailors and wounded over a hundred, without a US response (USS Liberty).

Should America go to war over that or is no response a good thing?

Why wouldn’t we respond? You know damn well if Iran or any other nation did that there would have been an overwhelming response.

I’m always amazed at the apologists.

[Steveboy]

Put your money where your mouth is? Go invade Russia or China..? naaaaaaaa dont want to do that do you?

To prove what, exactly? 

That goes both ways Steveboy.

Russia and China won’t take their chances invading the USA anytime soon either. 

I still find the premise odd.  Sort of a "My dad can beat up your dad" thing, maybe?

But Russia has had a war on its home land recently, just like most of Europe.. we are used to having bombs dropped on our houses by the Germans recently...London was blitzed just like  many other places..

Recently?  I don't think that word means what you think it means.

Remind me when the last bombs fell on London?

Would would have to be in one's 80s to have any meaningful memory of it. 

The US has never been blitzed can you imagine New York being bombed night after night by the Russians  or any one else..
.....
How the hell would they manage being bombed night after night after night after night for a few years?

Who exactly has this capability? 

And odd that you should mention it, because 9-11, which most people alive have a memory of, is why OBL got snuffed.  Took a while to find him, but he went from basically being in charge of a country to being in charge of a cave.

At any rate, the narrative about how the US "lost" Iraq and Afghanistan is one of necessity for the Anti-US crowd.  Sure, it isn't true, but it must be, so it is. 

Meanwhile, it seems that No Longer So Great Britain is having some difficulties with Iran.  I wonder if the lads on the tankers got to keep their iPads?

I would not be at all surprised if Trump rides to the rescue - as American presidents so often have to do for Little Britain - just so he can make HM Government eat the whole crap sammich and tell him how good it tastes. 

B/B

Who exactly has this capability?. You think it wouldn't happen? Im sure there are a few countries with secret plans to incinerate you in the event of war with you.. remember history ? Every empire comes to an end sooner or later.. just accept it.. if you need some counselling over the problem give me a shout next time your in Russia I can do you 3/4 hours free..

[Manny]

What's the posters from the UK think about two British ships tankers seized by Iran? Does the UK deserve it and do nothing?

It's now one tanker. One was released.

We facilitated the seizure of an Iranian tanker off Gibraltar recently on behalf of the US (we shouldnt have done - not our business). It is still being held captive.

So they took a British flagged tanker as tit for tat. Who can blame them? We shouldnt be marauding around the sea acting as pirates on behalf of Uncle Sam.

This from the BBC:

What does Iran say?

Iran's foreign minister Javad Zarif tweeted that the UK "must cease being an accessory to #EconomicTerrorism of the US".

He said it was Iran that guarantees the security of the Gulf and the Strait of Hormuz.

"Unlike the piracy in the Strait of Gibraltar, our action in the Persian Gulf is to uphold international maritime rules," he said.

Abbasali Kadkhodaei, spokesman of the state watchdog the Guardian Council, said on Twitter that "the law of retaliation is a recognised concept in international law" shortly after the ship's seizure was announced.

If we release their ship, I expect they'll release ours. It doesn't seem complicated to resolve. If we didn't keep acting as lap dogs for the US, this kind of thing wouldn't happen. It was entirely avoidable. This is a Jeremy Hunt fail, and he needs to wind his neck in on the subject.

[andrewfi]

Not tit for tat.

The British ship had turned off its transponder, was running out of the course assigned to it, refused to respond to the relevant maritime authorities and was thus hauled over.

One might question whether the ship would have behaved as it did in other circumstances - perhaps, as with other vessels recently, it was acting as a decoy or trap. From what we know of the case, the Iranian coast guard made the right call. What would the British coast guard do if any ship travelled through the English Channel in this way, a similarly crowded and heavily monitored waterway?

Had the British ship run down a smaller vessel while off course it would have caused a catastrophe. Guess who would have been blamed? Iran for not managing their waters properly.

Oh, it is worse than I thought. Above I wrote about the problems caused by being out of their designated path. Well, it now seems there was a problem, the ship had an accident with a local fishing vessel. The smaller vessel sent out distress calls but these were ignored by the British vessel - that's a big no-no!

The Stena Impero was accompanied by a British naval vessel and, given its other activities was probably acting as a target for Iranian action, but running down a fishing vessel was probably not part of the plan!

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-mideast-iran-tanker-zarif/detained-british-flagged-tanker-must-go-through-legal-process-iran-foreign-minister-idUKKCN1UF0G1

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-iran-tanker/iran-says-uk-flagged-tanker-was-in-accident-with-fishing-boat-and-ignored-distress-call-idUSKCN1UF03G

[Contrarian]

Israel being the only nation which attacked a US Navy vessel and killed over 30 sailors and wounded over a hundred, without a US response (USS Liberty).

Should America go to war over that or is no response a good thing?

And BTW following that logic having no response over the possibility of Iran getting Nukes would be a good thing.

Instead we’re being manipulated into being the lapdogs of Israel who already has nuclear weapons but refuses to declare them. 

[Contrarian]

What If Iran Retaliates and Shuts Down the Strait of Hormuz?

It would be re-opened the moment that the US decided to re-open it.  Simples.

or he is just incredibly ignorant of America’s recent history of losing wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Go ask Saddam and OBL who won in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Oh, right.  They are "unavailable for comment." 

What a surprise. Pro-Russian apologists blame external forces instead of acknowledging the ethnic-centric Russian “us versus them” our Soviet way or the graveyard mentality. 

There are a few "Johnny One-Notes" on the board who will, with little prompting, sing their one-note song anti-American twaddle.  They remind me, in a slightly less pathetic way, of the folks who, when they could deny reality no more, changed their tune to "Just because communism lost doesn't mean capitalism won!" 

Well, yes, actually, it does.  Under socialism, people line up, waiting for bread; under capitalism, bread is lined up waiting for people. 

At any rate, Trump is not part of the Swamp.  He is a friend of our military and has not shown any interest in getting involved in wars on behalf of the Swamp.

I had a brief convo with him in the buffet line at Mar a Lago shortly after the bit with Syria.  I asked about his redistribution of cruise missiles to needy countries. Here's what he said:

"Oh that? That rain of death from above? I had to send a message. No chemical weapon attacks. Those are the rules, and I like it when people follow the rules. Try the crème brûlée, it's fantastic."

Thus, unless Iran does something extremely foolish and plays within their limits, their limits will not be further limited.

B/B

Go ask Saddam and OBL who won in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Oh, right.  They are "unavailable for comment."  

Put your money where your mouth is? Go invade Russia or China..? naaaaaaaa dont want to do that do you?

That goes both ways Steveboy.

Russia and China won’t take their chances invading the USA anytime soon either. 

Yes I agree.. But Russia has had a war on its home land recently, just like most of Europe.. we are used to having bombs dropped on our houses by the Germans recently...London was blitzed just like  many other places..

The US has never been blitzed can you imagine New York being bombed night after night by the Russians  or any one else..

Remember what happened to the US sailors who got taken by the Iranians a few years back? Crying cos they could not have their I Pads?

And remember half of the US is visiting a shrink most weeks..

How the hell would they manage being bombed night after night after night after night for a few years?

Don't think Tom Cruise will be able to help..

Recently? WWII was over 74 years ago. Maybe it’s time to let it go and stop using it for propaganda purposes.

Granted Russians are some very tough people. Probably tougher than most Americans. And Russia did some of the heavy lifting. Really every country contributed.

I’ve made it clear I’m an isolationist at heart. Would be very happy if the USA stayed out of all of these conflicts.

The entire European continent would probably be speaking German and eating sourkraut, but what do I care? At least there’d only be two genders, no queers marching in the streets and no Muslims stabbing people or running them over in London.

Or maybe you lot would be speaking Russian and eating Borscht. Again why would I care?

The USA is a peaceful beautiful shore to shore magic kingdom, separated by an ocean from you genocidal freaks. 

And we’d still sell our superior Cadillac’s, Buick’s, Chevrolet’s, Fords and Trucks to you lot. You’d still be buying our grain and beef, etc. 

[d672]

Not tit for tat.

The British ship had turned off its transponder, was running out of the course assigned to it, refused to respond to the relevant maritime authorities and was thus hauled over.

One might question whether the ship would have behaved as it did in other circumstances - perhaps, as with other vessels recently, it was acting as a decoy or trap. From what we know of the case, the Iranian coast guard made the right call. What would the British coast guard do if any ship travelled through the English Channel in this way, a similarly crowded and heavily monitored waterway?

Had the British ship run down a smaller vessel while off course it would have caused a catastrophe. Guess who would have been blamed? Iran for not managing their waters properly.

Oh, it is worse than I thought. Above I wrote about the problems caused by being out of their designated path. Well, it now seems there was a problem, the ship had an accident with a local fishing vessel. The smaller vessel sent out distress calls but these were ignored by the British vessel - that's a big no-no!

The Stena Impero was accompanied by a British naval vessel and, given its other activities was probably acting as a target for Iranian action, but running down a fishing vessel was probably not part of the plan!

https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-mideast-iran-tanker-zarif/detained-british-flagged-tanker-must-go-through-legal-process-iran-foreign-minister-idUKKCN1UF0G1

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-iran-tanker/iran-says-uk-flagged-tanker-was-in-accident-with-fishing-boat-and-ignored-distress-call-idUSKCN1UF03G

 Those damn tanker captains, always recklessly zipping around like they own the waters! One minute they are not there, next thing you know they are barrelling over you! Throw the book at them! lol

[andrewfi]

There are rules about these things. It seems the Stena Impero did not follow those rules with serious results. Fortunately nobody was killed or injured.

[BillyB]

It's now one tanker. One was released.

We facilitated the seizure of an Iranian tanker off Gibraltar recently on behalf of the US (we shouldnt have done - not our business). It is still being held captive.

The British seized a tanker due to violations of an EU embargo of oil shipments to Syria. The tanker had paperwork that said it was owned by a company in Asia, carrying Iraqi oil and was flying the Panamanian flag. Why would Iran claim it?

With the problems in the Strait of Hormuz, why don't the UK send their warships to escort their tankers?

Iran's neighbors don't have the same problems Iran has.

[msmoby]

There are rules about these things. It seems the Stena Impero did not follow those rules with serious results. Fortunately nobody was killed or injured.

I knew you were an apologist for Moscow...Trhran, as well, now?..

Who, else would believe the Iranian FM's account, hook, line and sinker?

Some of us know a place where ships movements can be tracked, historically ....  only a total MUPPET would fall for  the BS you're quoting ...

[d672]

There are rules about these things. It seems the Stena Impero did not follow those rules with serious results. Fortunately nobody was killed or injured.

 I'm sure that is the excuse Iran is giving, but I will give it about as much credit as them saying a big, slow, lumbering tanker would be able to run into a fishing boat.  C'mon, really? A fishing boat could see that thing coming from a mile away... for about an hour! lol. But, it gives the pro Iranians a straw to grasp at I guess.

[Manny]

It's now one tanker. One was released.

We facilitated the seizure of an Iranian tanker off Gibraltar recently on behalf of the US (we shouldnt have done - not our business). It is still being held captive.

The British seized a tanker due to violations of an EU embargo of oil shipments to Syria. The tanker had paperwork that said it was owned by a company in Asia, carrying Iraqi oil and was flying the Panamanian flag. Why would Iran claim it?

With the problems in the Strait of Hormuz, why don't the UK send their warships to escort their tankers?

Iran's neighbors don't have the same problems Iran has.

Iran claimed it as it was flying a Union Jack. Who owns the cargo is irrelevant.

Allegedly, the first Iranian tanker was carrying aviation fuel not covered by any sanctions. But I fail to see why it's our, the US or the EU's business to interfere in any business between Iran and Syria anyway. The request itself came from the US:

Gibraltar denies that it was ordered to detain the vessel, which was carrying up to 2.1 million barrels of oil, but several diplomatic sources said the United States asked the United Kingdom to seize the vessel.

We stuck our nose in at the request of the US and its backfired.

This made me laugh:

The UK is believed to have asked its US ally to initially refrain from making inflammatory public statements about the seizure of the Stena Impero by Iran as they sought a diplomatic solution to the crisis.

Donald Trump was noticeably muted in his immediate response and Mike Pompeo, the US secretary of state, said little in the immediate aftermath.

Jeremy Hunt, the foreign secretary, spoke with his counterpart Mike Pompeo, who was in Argentina, on Friday night. British and US officials continued to speak through the night on Friday. White House officials did not push back on reports that the UK conveyed a message to the US that it wanted to try to de-escalate the situation.

Mr Trump had already spoken to Boris Johnson on Thursday, although it was not clear whether they discussed Iran.

The following day, when asked about the Stena Impero, Mr Trump did not give his usual full-throated response to acts of Iranian aggression, instead saying he had "heard about it" and would "work with the UK"

There's a video on RT of the tanker being apprehended by the Iranians: https://www.rt.com/news/464652-iran-british-tanker-video/