First time attemting to date a Ukrainian girl

[Ken6691]

Hello all,
My name is Ken.  Im 53, and recently separated pending divorce.  I know you guys have probably seen threads like this but Ive been active on some date sites with communications and will plan to visit the Ukraine soon.  About me:  Im very fit and active looking much younger than I am for what that's worth.  I would describe myself as an alpha but Im not an over powering asshole.  Im financially secure, have a good sense of humor and can pick up anywhere into a conversation.  I know zero Ukrainian or Russian.  I do have a Russian friend who has friends in the Ukraine that can assist me if needed.
So I'm communicating with about 10 ladies ranging in age from 29-45.  They all seem  interested in me but a few ( 3) are asking me for financial assistance to get out of the war zone.  Ive been told to NOT give any money to girls without actually seeing them  This makes sense.  One girl there told me in order to get out of that area and meet me in Kiev, she needs $150 for the "electronic pass"  I looked into this and there is a pass or permit that is free but takes 10 days.  I mentioned this to her and she said it is free but people often need to bribe the officer to be let through.  Is this true?  Also, she said she does not feel safe taking a bus or maybe she said train, and will need another $100 for a "taxi"  Is this bull shit or is she telling me the truth?  I am not on the ground there so I have no clue.  Some of the girls I have skyped and want me to come right away.  I'm a pretty handsome guy and Im built like a brick shit house but I'm still not used to girls throwing themselves at me.  It just seems weird to me.  Maybe its cultural?  Maybe some is BS?  maybe a little of both?  How the hell can you be certain you are dealing with a real girl who really wants to be visited by you?  I don't want to go to Kiev and be "that guy" sitting around alone like a friggin idiot.  Thank you to all you guys who have been there and done that!

[AvHdB]

Ken, Welcome to RUA.

So you are looking for Barbie! You have a good bullshit meter, I would trust it. I would be a bit sanguine with the information you share with a woman you have not met. The first rule of this endeavor is NEVER send funds to a woman you have NEVER met. The second rule there is no correct way to prosecute this endeavor but an almost limitless number of ways to fcuk it up. The third rule is do not fall in love with a foto.

Spend some time reading trip reports and trainwrecks and figure out what works with your style. Ask questions.

[cufflinks]

Another option is the full-service Wife Hunting Safari tours to Ukraine by RUA's primary sponsor:

Check them out they are USA based and RUA does not deal with unreputable sponsors:

https://www.loveme.com/tour/order/order.shtml  2019 and 2020 tour dates just updated...

Happy Hunting!   

[BillyB]

Welcome to the forum Ken. Dump any girl that asks a stranger for money. You have not met any of them and you are a stranger to all of them.

There are scammers. There are gold diggers and there are girls in financial trouble. Avoid all of them no matter how pretty their photo looks. Photo may not be of them at all. Even if you get on video chat with them, avoid if they ask you for money. Don't choose a girl that has problems solved with money. Find a girl that has her act together. Once you meet her and she's earned your trust and you enter into a relationship with her, then take care of her financially if you want. There are good girls out there. Be patient and you'll eventually find one.

[msmoby]

Welcome to the forum Ken,

Ukraine is the former Soviet Union nation that most guys go to - and fail ... the women there see so many guys write, but never come, or come with bizarre ideas ...  Belarus and Russia are less 'fished'

I do not agree with the don't send money to a woman you've never met ...  it depends on how well you feel you know them ,,,( example) I paid for a airline ticket from Siberia to Cyprus ( where I lived )  to a woman I ended up marrying - we are not still together - but that is more down to me than her ..    I've paid for a train ticket / taxi to meet someone who had to come a fair way - before I met them ..  The man is expected to pay on a date ...  What AVHdB meant is to be sensible - you are paying - you dicate how / where to meet.

Another option is the full-service Wife Hunting Safari tours to Ukraine by RUA's primary sponsor:

Check them out they are USA based and RUA does not deal with unreputable sponsors:

https://www.loveme.com/tour/order/order.shtml  2019 and 2020 tour dates just updated...

Happy Hunting!   

..and how have such 'tours'  worked for you, long-term married, Mikey ? ( not)

It's SHYTE 'advice' ... unless you are a sex tourist - if you want to see an un-real 'dating scene' ..  I note 'love me tours' onl;y have one Russian destination, now ...

As for  'unreputable sponsors'.. You might very well think so - I couldn't POSSIBLY comment ...

[Markje]

good luck on your endavour. be realistic and you will succeed. steveboy runs a dating agency. perhaps he will share his experiences

[Manny]

A bloke in his 50s writing women in their 20s is unrealistic nowadays. I’d ask the OP how many good looking 29 year olds he dates at home?

Zero.

Ken, you are at the start of a long learning curve. Buy the book highlighted in the right-hand column and read everything you can read in the archives here for months and months. 

Don’t send strangers money.

[cufflinks]

Welcome to the forum Ken,

Ukraine is the former Soviet Union nation that most guys go to - and fail ... the women there see so many guys write, but never come, or come with bizarre ideas ...  Belarus and Russia are less 'fished'

I do not agree with the don't send money to a woman you've never met ...  it depends on how well you feel you know them ,,,( example) I paid for a airline ticket from Siberia to Cyprus ( where I lived )  to a woman I ended up marrying - we are not still together - but that is more down to me than her ..    I've paid for a train ticket / taxi to meet someone who had to come a fair way - before I met them ..  The man is expected to pay on a date ...  What AVHdB meant is to be sensible - you are paying - you dicate how / where to meet.

Another option is the full-service Wife Hunting Safari tours to Ukraine by RUA's primary sponsor:

Check them out they are USA based and RUA does not deal with unreputable sponsors:

https://www.loveme.com/tour/order/order.shtml  2019 and 2020 tour dates just updated...

Happy Hunting!   

..and how have such 'tours'  worked for you, long-term married, Mikey ? ( not)

It's SHYTE 'advice' ... unless you are a sex tourist - if you want to see an un-real 'dating scene' ..  I note 'love me tours' onl;y have one Russian destination, now ...

As for  'unreputable sponsors'.. You might very well think so - I couldn't POSSIBLY comment ...

I takes DIRT to Kick DIRT and Be DIRT only to Lose ground.      

[NS1]

Lots of good advice here, read it and adapt you can succeed.
Stay inside the realm of reality and it will be a great experience.
If you want to send money to strangers PM me

[Steveboy]

Here is the best advice you will ever get in your life!!

FORGET ABOUT UKRAINIAN GIRLS!!

SEARCH FOR A WOMEN IN Russia/Belarusia/Moldova or some where nearer home.. will save you soooooooooo much heartache and problems..

And when you do try these countries stick to women about 40 years old you will have no problems then... I know it maybe a little disappointing to hear some guy tell you to
stick to that age group.. but it's a realistic age for you..

Of course if you look kind of handsome have a big bank account , have a gift of the gab , a good sex drive and a few other things then you may get away with finding a younger women.. its life and life sucks

[B.B.]

Im very fit and active looking much younger than I am for what that's worth.

Not much.

I know zero Ukrainian or Russian.

Better get on that. 

They all seem  interested in me but a few ( 3) are asking me for financial assistance to get out of the war zone.

Hard no.

Also, she said she does not feel safe taking a bus or maybe she said train, and will need another $100 for a "taxi"  Is this bull shit or is she telling me the truth? 

Bullshit.  Millions of Ukrainians take the buss and Metro every day.

Some of the girls I have skyped and want me to come right away.

Ofc they do.  It's zero cost to them.

B/B

[dnhptrs7]

I still wonder why you guys can find girls locally? Were you might meet a girl were you can see everyday and so least chance of being a cheated.

[Steveboy]

I still wonder why you guys can find girls locally? Were you might meet a girl were you can see everyday and so least chance of being a cheated.

When you have been living with your mother till your 57 years old it is not easy...

And it doesn't help when mother is shouting down your ear day after day.. "Son you need to get yourself a bride!!" In a southern American accent..

[Contrarian]

I still wonder why you guys can find girls locally? Were you might meet a girl were you can see everyday and so least chance of being a cheated.

The thrill of the hunt and it might be that they don’t find “BBW” with tattoos and 3 kids to be very attractive. 

[dcguyusa]

I still wonder why you guys can find girls locally? Were you might meet a girl were you can see everyday and so least chance of being a cheated.

I do not think the original poster's native language is English, so I will suggest a modification to the above statements,

I still wonder why you guys cannot find girls locally?   Where you might meet a girl more readily and where you can see her everyday and therefore, there will be a lesser chance of being cheated.   

[BillyB]

I still wonder why you guys can find girls locally? Were you might meet a girl were you can see everyday and so least chance of being a cheated.

Some of us are weird. Some of us are crazy. Some of us are losers. Some of use are all three and we hope to find a woman who doesn't understand us for who we are because local girls can quickly identify us and as a result, we'd be lonely for the rest of our lives. Some of us are winners but we have a different reason for seeking a woman overseas.

I've never had a problem dating local women. I just find Slavic women are the most beautiful in the world. I prefer them and fortunately there are tens of thousands of Slavic women around where I live and I've dated dozens of them. Welcome to the forum.

[2tallbill]

Hello all,
My name is Ken.  Im 53, and recently separated pending divorce.  I know
you guys have probably seen threads like this but Ive been active on some
date sites with communications and will plan to visit the Ukraine soon. 

Welcome to the forum!

My advice is to get your stuff in order and do a ton of research. I also advise
you to get your divorced finalized first and then make your trip. A not yet
divorced wife can do stuff that a exwife can't.

A divorce is emotionally draining, distracting and you don't want your future
exwife to twist a trip to Omsk to meet a potential future Mrs Ken sound like
a sex trip to Vietnam to meet underage girls and take loads of drugs.

After the last piece of paper is signed, stamped and dated she has far less
ability to control or influence your life.

Divorce doesn't drag out for years in the FSU, so they don't understand how
it can in the USA. Imagine if you found the perfect Mrs Ken and your future
exwife thought that she could foul things up by dragging her legal feet?
Women can be very, very vindictive. It's best to divorce her first then
start something new.

Lastly it takes all of your wits to successfully navigate the various pitfalls,
perils and minefields finding, pursuing and marrying an FSU woman. If you
explain to a good girl that you are not yet divorced most often they won't
be interested. You don't want to lie to them either, building a relationship
that started out with a lie. ALL FSU woman have been lied to by men before
and the good girls won't put up with it. My advice is to get the divorce finalized
then start your search.


There is a ton of research here on this forum that can help you in your search.
You should read until your eyes bleed and then read some more. You will be far
more effective searching for a woman if you were armed with some knowledge
AND had your divorce in order.

Buy the book here
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0955687403/?tag=r0be2e-20

The book has a lot of good information, but the first thing to go stale is the
section about what websites to go to. I've been married long enough that my
information on which websites to go to is stale as well.

You can learn a lot about how to find a good girl and that's what you want
first and foremost. You can compromise on looks, age, breast size height,
weight but never compromise on character. It's better to stay alone and
single than to marry a woman who might someday harvest your kidneys.

I put together a bunch of information on how to get started here. 
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,4390.0.html

Then read as many trip reports as you can. Try to learn from others without
making all their mistakes. The links to trip reports below are mine. I managed
to make plenty of mistakes, but I didn't keep making the same mistakes.

Odessa
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,16057.0.html


Trippin in St Pete
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=467.0


Dnepropetrovsk say it don't spray it
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=5560.msg77343


Georgia Peaches
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=14013.msg200952


Girl from Kiev meets me in Oregon
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,18168.0.html


Rushing around in Russia
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,18537.0.html

About age, in my opinion you will be better off pursuing a woman who
is 35 and over. For some reason men in the FSU start looking at women
like milk past their due date. Those women have fewer prospects for love
and marriage in the FSU. There are plenty of men over there are more
than willing to lay on a 37 year old woman's couch, f#ck her twice a day
(without a condom) and get waited on hand and foot, but soon enough
they will find another couch to lay on.

That's where you can find a diamond. You will have to sort and sift through
many, many tons of sand to find the perfect gem, but it's there to be found.


LAST Piece of advice (unless you ask for more)

When you start doing your research you will have questions, you can
either use the search function or you can come back to this thread and
ask them.

If you ask a question you will get all sorts of advice, some of it quite good
and some of it far more dubious in quality. Your job is to sift through the
advice and use what you think is best for your situation, your goals and
your personality.

Most of all don't get angry, you are relatively anonymous here (keep it that
way don't give out too much personal information). There is no need to even
react to somebody who might be in a bad mood because his wife has been
visiting her mother in Siberia for a month or because he lives in his mothers
basement and she wouldn't buy him the newest video game.

Keep the good advice and ignore the rest. 

Udachi!


Bill

[2tallbill]

I still wonder why you guys can find girls locally? Were you might meet a girl were you can see everyday and so least chance of being a cheated.

You have a really complicated moniker. We need to come up with a nickname
for you.

There are millions and millions of EXCELLENT women in the USA. However,
most of them are married to very happy husbands. Each year a man gets
older the pool of unmarried American women who aren't crazy, who don't
take brain altering drugs like Celexa, Lexapro, Prozac, Luvox, Paxil, or
Zoloft (I could name more drugs that middle aged American women take)

Those unmedicated middle aged women become fewer and fewer each
year a man gets older. There are also women who get fat, get lesbian
haircuts and have 4 kids with 5 different men and have more drama
in their lives than a group of transvestites at a going out of business 
wig sale. 

HOWEVER, a few other countries have a LARGE quantity of divorced
women who don't take drugs, who aren't crazy, who keep themselves
fit and thin, who would never try to look like a lesbian, who are educated,
clever AND sexy but don't have good chances to find a good man for
marriage and a family.

Where would you go if you were a middle aged man? to the place of
anxiety drugs and huge popka's or to the place with all the sexy, educated
women?

The last American woman I dated called me on the phone so that she could
give me the silent treatment. I was expected to read her mind through the
phone lines, then feel really bad for whatever I did to make her feel sad.
I asked what was wrong and there was nothing but silence. I hung up
and that was the last time I dated an American woman and the last
time I got the "silent treatment".

I've never met a single woman from the FSU who wouldn't tell me directly
and exactly what I did to make her mad or sad. ZERO women that I've
dated from the FSU expected me to read their minds. You can't believe
how refreshing that is for those of us tough enough to handle a woman
from Eastern Europe.

FSU woman are NOT FOR EVERYONE, they aren't for most people. Many
men can't do everything they need to do to find a good girl, to pursue her
and win her heart and then all the difficult paperwork and make all the trips
back to see her. Not everyone can keep the relationship going while they
are apart.

Most men who try are going to fail. This forum gives them the information
that they will need to be successful, but they got to go out and do this
themselves and not everyone has the time, energy, dedication, money
and thick enough skin to survive this ordeal.

For many men this is just a fantasy that they will never get past wasting
the time of women. The Keyboard Romeo's. Many men only have two weeks
vacation per year and they are usually doomed. Many men will write to girls
who are far too young and all the good girls will reject them and the girls
with questionable motives and goals will be communicating with them.

Many guys make mistakes and they quit. Many guys can't or won't do
this the right way. They won't spend all the effort and time and emotions
and resources.

Those who are willing to do all that can have a chance at a beautiful,
interesting, exciting and sexy wife and a happy marriage.

I hope my explanation helps a little bit.

Udachi!


Bill

[justadude]

Hey Ken, welcome. I can share some events that happened to me but I won't try to predict that others will have similar experiences. Like you, I look young and can get away with taking 15 years off my age.  I have been to Ukraine 4 times. I have been engaged twice. The age differences for me would be similar to the girls you've met on the young end of the range. I brought one girl to the US as a 90 day fiancé. It didn't work out. She was the real deal, I was the weak link in the chain.  During my adventures I was scammed twice for less than a total of $100. Once was an expensive dinner (not by the standards of many of the guys here, $40) and the other was a $50 taxi ride. I was engaged to the first girl for about 3 months total and sent her less than $200. I got a fiancé visa for her but we never used it. The second girl I sent about $1300 for her plane ticket to the US and travel for her cat. After she was here and ended the relationship I gave her $5K to try to get back on her feet when she got home. I think I can generally find a hotter girl in Ukraine than I can at home. Having said that, I had a few very lonely weeks in Kiev in 2017. Having said THAT, I'm heading back to Ukraine later this year, so I'm obviously not too smart.

[AvHdB]

Having said that, I had a few very lonely weeks in Kiev in 2017. Having said THAT, I'm heading back to Ukraine later this year, so I'm obviously not too smart.

Or you are willing to learn from your mistakes and move forward.

[Manny]

Having said that, I had a few very lonely weeks in Kiev in 2017. Having said THAT, I'm heading back to Ukraine later this year, so I'm obviously not too smart.

Or you are willing to learn from your mistakes and move forward.

This topic isnt about JAD. 

[andrewfi]

Hmmm, when it comes to 'scams,' the general truth seems to be this: if a bloke ends up spending more than he thinks he wants to, then he will often claim to have been 'scammed.' More likely, all that happened was a mismatch of expectations.

I recall a hopeful swain who claimed he had been 'scammed' by a woman who ordered a sandwich at a coffee shop meeting.

I can't imagine how spending $40 on a meal would be a 'scam.' If such an amount was out of the comfort zone of the hopeful swain, then it is a pretty clear indication that the guy and the woman were not a decent match.

Most of the women that you guys meet will have reasonable expectations that you are not paupers. If you act like a pauper, then you will be rejected.

Paying too much for a taxi is pretty much par for the course for a tourist in a new location. That's what taxi drivers do. One might hope that the woman with whom one was sharing a cab might say something, but I'd certainly not expect it, and I'd think nothing bad of her for not doing so. You are the man; you are in control. Many guys would take it seriously amiss if the woman intervened and so women will tend to stay shtum.

On the other hand, if she asks for exorbitant amounts to pay for a taxi when she leaves you to go home, then, just as in your community, that's not a good sign. To be honest, I'd expect that a woman I was seeing would have the funds to manage transport back to her home anyway, Unless you chose a location very far from her residence, or were keeping her out until after public transport ended. Where I live, €20 would cover getting to pretty much anywhere she'd be likely to live. If I were paying for a taxi home, I'd give her that amount and not worry about any money left over.

If you are with a woman, behave as you would in your community. If there is a pattern of undesirable behavior then cut things off. Don't take a single unexpected event as being automatically bad, or indicative of a trend that has not yet been demonstrated.

If you don't have experience of dating then, for god's sake, get some practice in before going to a place where you do not understand the language and mores. Without experience, you'll make mistakes in both directions. You'll be prematurely ditching women who have done nothing wrong and excusing behavior that should not have been excused. Money is not even the best indicator here either! If the amount of money she costs is your best indicator, then hold fire on buying a flight ticket until you have better tools at your disposal.

One of the most straightforward and most useful tools I have found over the years is to look at how your interlocutor deals with other people - shop assistants and wait staff. There are some cultural differences in play - you'll find that men and women over here tend to have higher expectations of those who serve them than is the case in the Home of the Brave; they will question them more and be more demanding of decent service. On the other hand, look at the demeanor of your interlocutor. What is the attitude, is she rude, disrespectful of them? If she is that's a pretty poor sign as to how she will treat you and those around you in the future.

And yes, if you go a few restaurants, bars, cafes and wherever you go she is consistently picking the most expensive things on the menu or behind the bar then you might see that in a negative light - just as you would in your own community.

[justadude]

Andrew, the reason I believe I was scammed is that I perceived that neither of those women had any interest in me at all. My conclusion was that one wanted a nice dinner and the other wanted $50 for a "car service" that probably didn't happen. On the other hand, both of them were 10kg+ more than their online pictures suggested, so I wasn't attracted to them either after meeting in person. I knew I was being taken as I handed over the 1200 hrivna for the taxi, but the alternative appeared to be making a big scene in a decent restaurant. It didn't seem worth it.

Another time I bought a plane ticket for a woman to fly from Odessa to Kiev to spend the weekend with me. She insisted on separate rooms, which is certainly within her prerogative, but after I bought her ticket she asked me to buy one for her son, a son I didn't know she had, as well or she couldn't come. She had sent me pictures of a legit passport, in which name I bought the ticket. I told her I wouldn't buy the ticket for her son. Thankfully, Ukraine Air refunded the money I spent on her ticket. I suppose it's possible that she had some legitimate interest in me, but I suspect she was more interested in a free trip to Kiev with her son.  Her and I had communicated for over a month, including a couple video calls and some audio calls. Her English was quite good. I lost zero dollars on that one.

[andrewfi]

After they met you they might well have not had any interest in you. That does not make them 'scammers', just women who ended up on a bad date and wanted to make the best of a bad job. They did exactly what you did. OK, we KNOW that you are, to put it politely, a scammer - but those women didn't. They just didn't like you.

Try the empathy thing, a useful human trait! Why on earth do you think that these women might not have had similar feelings of disappointment upon meeting you? But, like you, they didn't just turn round and walk away. Probably because like you, they thought to do so was a little impolite and a waste of an evening and opportunity.

Oh a final thought, when you do not know the facts try to change your habit of seeing the reasons for an event as being negative. For example, you told us that you had no way to know if the woman was manipulating you with her request for a flight to Kiev for her son, but you chose to think she was. As a result, you missed out on meeting the woman. You chose to have a negative impression. This is a pattern, you are prejudging people by applying your own standards and by doing so, blowing opportunities. The only good reason for refusing the ticket, without more information, was because you are skint. If you're skint then you are playing the wrong game.

[Brian275]

I still wonder why you guys can find girls locally? Were you might meet a girl were you can see everyday and so least chance of being a cheated.

Some of us are weird. Some of us are crazy. Some of us are losers. Some of use are all three and we hope to find a woman who doesn't understand us for who we are because local girls can quickly identify us and as a result, we'd be lonely for the rest of our lives. Some of us are winners but we have a different reason for seeking a woman overseas.

I've never had a problem dating local women. I just find Slavic women are the most beautiful in the world. I prefer them and fortunately there are tens of thousands of Slavic women around where I live and I've dated dozens of them. Welcome to the forum.

Thats a very good reply to that! Have been with a great Russian woman for the past 5 years now. Introduced to us by a mutual friend whom I ironically met on a dating site. Although the relationship was certainly made easier since I spend most of my time here! I know not everyone has such a luxury. And, I was in a 2 year relationship with a Czech girl back in the mid-late 00's. It was the long distance thing that ultimately doomed it, though. I was in my mid 20's and just wasn't ready to move and moving wasn't an option for her at the moment. She had no economic reason to move, anyway, as she comes from a relatively wealthy family (she even works for her father's company). A rarity among western/slavic couples, unless the slavic girl is an expat living somewhere like London or L.A. But yeah, I agree, Slavic women are the most beautiful. But their personalities stand out even more. Have had 1 other slavic girlfriend (in Ukraine) and more dates than I can count. But, like back home, I struck out much more than I made a home run! And dealt with scams and lived to learn..