Electric Cars

[msmoby]

Gasoline is already overpriced

?

Seeing the prices are vastly inflated by most governments and the US citizens are taxed much less than in  western europe....

[Markje]

I heard that the magnetic pole has shifted.   

Yes it still is. Its shifting towards siberia last I heard. Scientists already had to adjust some variables or GPS would no longer work.

[Steveboy]

I heard that the magnetic pole has shifted.   

Heading from Canada to Siberia at 35 km a year, something like that.. I guess its emigrating for a better life..

[rosco]

Gasoline is already overpriced

?

Seeing the prices are vastly inflated by most governments and the US citizens are taxed much less than in  western europe....

What's the question Moby? You don't put a question mark after a statement. Billy is still correct, gasoline is overpriced, irrespective of the variable tax.

[Steveboy]

The poles are going to be flipping in a few years 1000-5000 years time any way, that is going to mess lots up in any case.. hopefully the bloody bloody mobile phone  network!!

[NS1]

Its amazing how many buy the lines spouted by politicians and scientists who for the most part are funded by
government believe, take a look at almost any government  in the world and tell me who they represent.
Themselves and the very rich people that support them Elon Musk makes billions if people believe him, self serving.
North America alone would need 30 of the biggest nuclear plants every built if everyone switched to electric tomorrow.
How many billions does that cost and how long to to build? Tell me how many are under construction today?
I am not sure about china, but with a billion people I suspect they need quite a few as well.

Do we wish to discuss how many things are made with petroleum products that we use every day?
How about 99.8% of everything. Oil is going no where any time soon. Electric cars will happen because
the population is being convinced we need to do this. So it will happen, but how long before they can mass produce cheap electric cars? Not in 5 years.

As for the planet, I agree we need to clean up the waste and find better ways to control this. not going to happen fast enough if you believe the rate the planet is declining to stop global warming, which I like others here believe has been going
in cycles for a billion years and will again. I tend to agree at some point the earth will eradicate us and the planet as it has
many times in its history.

So pick your narrative, find someone preaching it from the highest peaks and believe as you will.

[dcguyusa]

The majority of the air pollution comes from factories and large engines.  You will need to create zero pollution factories.   Move everyone back to an agrarian lifestyle      Long live the Luddites.   

The dinosaurs were here way longer than Homo Sapiens and the planet did not eradicate them.  Birds are considered to be descendants of dinosaurs, so they did not die off, they just shrunk.   

OMG, I have posted over 1000 times.   

[andrewfi]

Fun fact follows: all the oil based products we use are created from the distillation of crude oil. There's no way to choose what we get from oil. What chemists and businesses have done is a marvel of creativity in that nothing from a barrel of raw crude oil is wasted.

This means that if we want the plastics, fertilizer, bunker oil from oil then we get the diesel and gasoline as well. All that can change is a small variation in the proportion each fraction distilled from crude oil based on the type of crude being refined.

That means banning diesel or petrol from cars is pointless as we will need to use the stuff somehow. Perhaps even worse, as long as we want increasing amounts of other oil based products then we have no way to reduce production and consumption of crude oil. Using less gasoline for transport will save no oil for the future unless, at the same time, we reduce all other forms of oil use and there's no sign of that happening.

[msmoby]

What's the question Moby? You don't put a question mark after a statement.

And...If one questions the wisdom / accuracy of the statement? Seeing my point that the US motion potion is much cheaper than for you or I.......

Billy is still correct, gasoline is overpriced, irrespective of the variable tax.

Clearly, you have never seen the margins on selling 'over priced' petrol or diesel ...

[andrewfi]

The majority of the air pollution comes from factories and large engines.  You will need to create zero pollution factories.   Move everyone back to an agrarian lifestyle      Long live the Luddites.   

The dinosaurs were here way longer than Homo Sapiens and the planet did not eradicate them.  Birds are considered to be descendants of dinosaurs, so they did not die off, they just shrunk.   

OMG, I have posted over 1000 times.   

Zero pollution factories, a nice, but impractical, goal does not mean everyone working on farms. What it does mean is being less wasteful of resources.

If it is any help, think of it this way:
In a garden, plants that we do not want are called by gardeners or farmers 'weeds'. They are the equivalent of pollution in technological terms. When the gardener works to remove weeds he does not stop the garden from being a garden. The farmer does not stop being a farmer.

By reducing weeds both the gardener and farmer are creating a more efficient, less wasteful, condition for the land they work and hold in trust for generations to come. The farmer and gardener do not waste fertilizer on plants that they do not want. They get more room for the plants that they do want and the entire area they cultivate becomes more productive whether we see production as pretty plants or ears of wheat.

Factories that cause less pollution need fewer inputs whether those inputs are energy or raw materials. Sometimes what was once thought of as waste becomes a new resource in itself. Can one see these positive outcomes as making our lives less good, less fulfilled? Is our world less good for less pollution?

That's why, even if man-made climate change is hooey (and I do not think it is, albeit it is devilishly difficult to prove and model) I think that working as though it were real makes sound economic sense for the world as a whole. In fact, I can not see why any rational person would argue otherwise. That does not mean that every suggestion makes sense, of course, most of them, including those from the U.S. Democrat party are simply stupid with no basis in economics or other sciences. There's a big difference between AM and FM (Actual Machines and Fvcking Magic)

[rosco]

What's the question Moby? You don't put a question mark after a statement.

And...If one questions the wisdom / accuracy of the statement? Seeing my point that the US motion potion is much cheaper than for you or I.......

Billy is still correct, gasoline is overpriced, irrespective of the variable tax.

Clearly, you have never seen the margins on selling 'over priced' petrol or diesel ...

I should save this as a great example of you lying and swerving.

Margins are a separate discussion from tax. We all know this but perhaps you really are that thick? Are you suggesting that fuel is cheaper in the US because they have bigger margins?

We both know that’s bull shit but carry on and act the clown.

[2tallbill]

anyone but you, it seems ((

"In the past five years, the amount of renewable capacity has tripled while
fossil fuels’ has fallen by one-third, as power stations reached the end of
their life or became uneconomic.

Moby,

exponential growth:
noun

Growth whose rate becomes ever more rapid in proportion to the growing
total number or size.

Where and when is "Tripled in 5 years" considered exponential growth?

Exponential Growth:
y = a(1 + r)^x

Show me the increase in renewables from 2017 to 2018 and I will show you
that you don't have exponential growth.

Here is a link where you can study what exponential growth and/or decay means.
https://mathbitsnotebook.com/Algebra2/Exponential/EXGrowthDecay.html

[Guile]

Moby, more members are saying you are lying again...when do you ever stop?  And don't use the word "howler"..it makes you look like an 85 year old looking for his dentures. now go howl in the wind you wolf

[BillyB]

In Seattle, Washington, one can pay around $3.10 per gallon(near 4 liters) of gas. There is a port and pipelines from Canada feeding a refinery a couple of hours away. In Kansas, some people may pay $1.75 a gallon. No ports but pipelines and refineries exist in Kansas. Gasoline is cheap to make. The difference in price is probably based on local and state taxes.

Those who own electric and hybrid cars are currently saving on road and sales taxes since governments want to promote the technology. One day owners of those cars will have to pay their fair share of taxes.

[msmoby]

I should save this as a great example of you lying and swerving.

Then that would suggest either English reading comprehension deficit or  trolling on your part....  please read on..

Margins are a separate discussion from tax. We all know this but perhaps you really are that thick? Are you suggesting that fuel is cheaper in the US because they have bigger margins?

We both know that’s bull shit but carry on and act the clown.

Billy stated that petrol was 'overpriced' and I maintain it is not... It is not that profitable to sell to retail clients and our govts tax it heavily...less so in the US..

Petrol stations make their profit on selling ancillary products purchased by those buying petrol ('gas')

Now, if you did choose to read ... you might realise you were somewhat inaccurate....

In the UK, sixty to seventy percent of the price paid is tax

https://www.racfoundation.org/data/taxation-as-percentage-of-pump-price-data-page

Our Billy thinks paying  $2.87 / a us gallon is 'overpriced '.... He is paying much less tax, too

For those of you STILL believing Rosco... the average he might pay is £1.16 / litre

Billy is paying £0.59/ litre .....

[msmoby]

exponential growth:
noun

Growth whose rate becomes ever more rapid in proportion to the growing
total number or size.

Where and when is "Tripled in 5 years" considered exponential growth?

Exponential Growth:
y = a(1 + r)^x

Show me the increase in renewables from 2017 to 2018 and I will show you
that you don't have exponential growth.

No problem

Lots of exponential growth graphs here

https://www.erneuerbareenergien.de/archiv/exponential-growth-and-the-renewable-surprise-150-437-96907.html

[andrewfi]

One might argue the fairness of the taxes but the fact that early adopters are being paid to be so is undoubted.

These subsidies and payments serve to convince me that we are being propagandised for a reason. At some point though electric car owners will be burdened with cost per unit distance charges to replace current liquid fuel taxes.

I kinda wonder whether the reduced range of electric vehicles and their inherent lack of autonomy are attributes that are seen as being of use to the powers that be? Very handy to be able to restrict people in their ability to travel freely, or to be stopped at will.

[2tallbill]

https://www.erneuerbareenergien.de/archiv/exponential-growth-and-the-renewable-surprise-150-437-96907.html

First of all I asked
"Show me the increase in renewables from 2017 to 2018 and I will show you
that you don't have exponential growth."

You couldn't/wouldn't do that, because it would prove you're wrong. 

From your own link.

Hydro is growing at an annual rate of 3%. At that rate, it takes more than two decades
to double hydro generation.

Altogether, non-hydro renewables grew at a rate of 16% per annum. All things like wind
and solar start giving diminishing returns ESPECIALLY since the UK government subsidies
for solar are ending and that solar panels begin producing less electricity each year of
operation.

Your facts are wrong as well as your conclusions and converting to electric cars is
at least a hundred years away with current energy generation growth rates.

[2tallbill]

I kinda wonder whether the reduced range of electric vehicles and their inherent lack of autonomy are attributes that are seen as being of use to the powers that be? Very handy to be able to restrict people in their ability to travel freely, or to be stopped at will.

I wonder what happens to Atlantic Islands that import 48% or more of their food,
I haven't seen many solar ships or even rubber band powered delivery trucks. If
an island had to rely ONLY on electricity how long before people would be eating
soylent green?

[msmoby]

 I asked
"Show me the increase in renewables from 2017 to 2018 and I will show you
that you don't have exponential growth."


You couldn't/wouldn't do that, because it would prove you're wrong.

 ..and my link proved - several instances - clearly demonstrated - and even  using the word EXPONENTIAL(LY)

[yankee]

I kinda wonder whether the reduced range of electric vehicles and their inherent lack of autonomy are attributes that are seen as being of use to the powers that be? Very handy to be able to restrict people in their ability to travel freely, or to be stopped at will.

I wonder what happens to Atlantic Islands that import 48% or more of their food,
I haven't seen many solar ships or even rubber band powered delivery trucks. If
an island had to rely ONLY on electricity how long before people would be eating
soylent green?

Great movie

[andrewfi]

The book is better. I read it as a kid and it had a big influence on me. The book is called Make Room! Make Room! Oddly enough the overcrowded, and resource bereft society presented has 340 million USAians and a global population of 7 billion. Back in 1966 such numbers were conceivable only in the most catastrophic terms and yet that's about where we are today.

Of course, if one compares today's world with the world we grew up in and most of us can recall just how much more space there was, how much less crowded - especially if one grew up in an urban environment.

[Texan77]

Andrew has said earlier in this topic that there was no such thing as graphene. Here is a link to a short bit about graphene to explain what it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphene.

If you want to see what it does for batteries look at this link at two minutes and ten seconds where it is explained what it does for batteries. The first of the video show other things being done with batteries such as an electric airplane in mass production.

[andrewfi]

Texan77, I have said no such thing. You made a claim about a fictional material that does not exist. Please ask your carer to check and point out your error.

I will wait for your apology. (for a long time, I am sure.)

[Texan77]

Well above is some information about this fictional material.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphene

It does exist. Graphene is not a fictional material. It is the worlds best conductor. It is a form of carbon much like diamonds and other structures. If you will look at the link above you can see it just something else you know nothing about.  Graphene use in batteries can be seen in video at two minute and ten second mark. But I am sure you do not want to learn anything because you know everything in the world. If any one has a doubt they can just ask you and you will set them straight.

I will tell my care taker that you sent her you best regards.