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Author Topic: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner  (Read 6785 times)

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Offline msmoby

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Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« on: March 06, 2018, 02:43:16 AM »
I lived on this island for nearly 10 years.

It is divided on ethnic grounds - no thanks to the Brits divide and rule policy - to keep their military bases ( amid calls for independence)  AND Kissinger's interference in '74 - persuading the Greek Junta to try to overthrow the govt of Archbishop Makarios ( 'Commie in a Cassock') and ended up with Turkey moving in ( Peace movement / invasion - depending on your ethnicity)




I lived in Limassol - on the 'strip' and haven't been there for 10 years

I learnt my 'Russian', there - as much former Soviet apparatchik 'loot' ended up there in the early nineties - during the break up of the USSR. I provided Satellite TV for Brits/ Irish and - later FSU folk

SC has never been there and as our apts were rented out in Sochi - it was the perfect opportunity to look up old friends and see what had changed

Limassol is THE place to live if you need to work -but want to be near the sea. The only downside being the grey sand

As SC and I walked among the eucalyptus trees forming a barrier from the road noise to the beach - every other person spoke Russian rather than being a 'Greek' Cypriot

The menus in restaurants are in Greek, English and Russian  and even shop assistants know Russian - as many are 'Pontian' ( Black Sea ) Greeks who were invited to settle at the time of the break up of the USSR

Then we went over to the 'dark side' - as the Greeks and Turks respectively call each other's side - the north - which is an officially ( UN Sec Council vote ) an unrecognised state.. 'TRNC' - Turkish Republic of northern Cyprus ( only recognised by Turkey )

FSU folk can enter via the Republic - Russians just apply online and print off their visa - and can cross to the north - but as the north is unrecognised one CAN fly there - but only via Turkey and your FSU partner won't be allowed to cross to the south ( 'illegal port of entry') - unless you are married ...


The peoples' may not ( think)  they are able to live side by side  - but are friendly, everywhere.


Post Crimea 2014 - I have noted more RU speakers in the north - which is more unspolit - if you know where to look


It's a great place to get married - as there is easy access to most embassies - need to get a letter to prove one is free to marry and the Brits just need to swear an affidavit









 
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Offline Chris

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2018, 11:17:23 AM »
Ahhh Cyprus, we love it! myself, wifey and daughter have been a number of times over the last 6 or 7  years, was there last in August and September last year. We have been all over the island including the Turkish sector, which was actually a really nice experience, crossing the border and all that.  We've done all the touristy things,  followed the green line, visits to the ghost towns, Farmagusta, Salamis, Varosha,  the historic stuff Paphos etc, the greek nights, cruises, hired speedboats and swam at places like Cape Greko and  Aphrodite's Rock and much much more, too much to mention.

The place is amazing, the people are very nice and friendly, food is great, amazing sandy beaches and the weather fantastic too, they drive on the proper side of the road, the left, just like us!  :nod:  they use British 3 pin plugs, what is there not to like about the place. :)

I am currently semi retired, but plans are to take early retirement later this year if all works out with selling of businesses etc and if that happens my wife will also give up work and we will spend 3 - 4 months during the winter in Cyprus, can't wait!

Offline msmoby

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2018, 11:27:43 AM »
Ahhh Cyprus, we love it! myself, wifey and daughter have been a number of times over the last 5 - 6 years, was there last in August and September last year. We have been all over the island including the Turkish sector, which was actually a really nice experience.  We've done all the touristy things,  the green line tours, visits to the ghost towns, Farmagusta, Salamis, Varosha,  Paphos the historic stuff, the greek nights, cruises, hired speedboats and swam at places like Cape Greko and  Aphrodite's Rock  and much much more, too much to go into.

The place is amazing, the people are very nice and friendly, food is great and the weather fantastic too, they drive on the proper side of the road, the left, just like us!  :nod:  they use British 3 pin plugs, what is there not to like about the place. :)

I am currently semi retired, but plans are to take earlyt retirement later this year if all works out with selling of businesses etc and if that happens my wife will also give up work and we will spend 3 - 4 months during the winter in Cyprus, can't wait!

Hi Chris

I was daft to leave - but V wanted her son to be educated in the UK


My fav place to hire a speedboat is from Latsi - north of Paphos on the Akamas - to  'Fontana Amorza'

https://goo.gl/maps/K3iDnHcEsiR2


 
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Offline Chris

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2018, 11:36:47 AM »
Ahhh Cyprus, we love it! myself, wifey and daughter have been a number of times over the last 5 - 6 years, was there last in August and September last year. We have been all over the island including the Turkish sector, which was actually a really nice experience.  We've done all the touristy things,  the green line tours, visits to the ghost towns, Farmagusta, Salamis, Varosha,  Paphos the historic stuff, the greek nights, cruises, hired speedboats and swam at places like Cape Greko and  Aphrodite's Rock  and much much more, too much to go into.

The place is amazing, the people are very nice and friendly, food is great and the weather fantastic too, they drive on the proper side of the road, the left, just like us!  :nod:  they use British 3 pin plugs, what is there not to like about the place. :)

I am currently semi retired, but plans are to take earlyt retirement later this year if all works out with selling of businesses etc and if that happens my wife will also give up work and we will spend 3 - 4 months during the winter in Cyprus, can't wait!

Hi Chris

I was daft to leave - but V wanted her son to be educated in the UK


My fav place to hire a speedboat is from Latsi - north of Paphos on the Akamas - to  'Fontana Amorza'

https://goo.gl/maps/K3iDnHcEsiR2


I have hired them mainly in Protaras, Fig Tree Bay area and travelled along the coast South to Cape Greko and the radar station on the cliffs, can't really go much further that way unless you have lots of time. Can't really go much North from there obviously because of the Turkish guards patrolling the sea and land / beach area around Farmagusta.

Offline Chris

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2018, 11:37:55 AM »
Ahhh Cyprus, we love it! myself, wifey and daughter have been a number of times over the last 5 - 6 years, was there last in August and September last year. We have been all over the island including the Turkish sector, which was actually a really nice experience.  We've done all the touristy things,  the green line tours, visits to the ghost towns, Farmagusta, Salamis, Varosha,  Paphos the historic stuff, the greek nights, cruises, hired speedboats and swam at places like Cape Greko and  Aphrodite's Rock  and much much more, too much to go into.

The place is amazing, the people are very nice and friendly, food is great and the weather fantastic too, they drive on the proper side of the road, the left, just like us!  :nod:  they use British 3 pin plugs, what is there not to like about the place. :)

I am currently semi retired, but plans are to take earlyt retirement later this year if all works out with selling of businesses etc and if that happens my wife will also give up work and we will spend 3 - 4 months during the winter in Cyprus, can't wait!

Hi Chris

I was daft to leave - but V wanted her son to be educated in the UK


My fav place to hire a speedboat is from Latsi - north of Paphos on the Akamas - to  'Fontana Amorza'

https://goo.gl/maps/K3iDnHcEsiR2


Yes it's an amazing place! we are off to Ukraine in June for 3 weeks, but hope to get back to Cyprus maybe August / September time,  dependant on daughter going to Uni etc.

Offline Chris

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2018, 11:40:09 AM »
Ahhh Cyprus, we love it! myself, wifey and daughter have been a number of times over the last 5 - 6 years, was there last in August and September last year. We have been all over the island including the Turkish sector, which was actually a really nice experience.  We've done all the touristy things,  the green line tours, visits to the ghost towns, Farmagusta, Salamis, Varosha,  Paphos the historic stuff, the greek nights, cruises, hired speedboats and swam at places like Cape Greko and  Aphrodite's Rock  and much much more, too much to go into.

The place is amazing, the people are very nice and friendly, food is great and the weather fantastic too, they drive on the proper side of the road, the left, just like us!  :nod:  they use British 3 pin plugs, what is there not to like about the place. :)

I am currently semi retired, but plans are to take earlyt retirement later this year if all works out with selling of businesses etc and if that happens my wife will also give up work and we will spend 3 - 4 months during the winter in Cyprus, can't wait!

Hi Chris

I was daft to leave - but V wanted her son to be educated in the UK


My fav place to hire a speedboat is from Latsi - north of Paphos on the Akamas - to  'Fontana Amorza'

https://goo.gl/maps/K3iDnHcEsiR2


If we go to live over winter, we have already made our minds up to base ourselves in the Paphos area, lots to do around there and easy to travel to most parts from there also.

Offline msmoby

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2018, 01:17:29 PM »
dependant on daughter going to Uni etc.

OMG..

Doesn't time fly !

What does she hope to study ?
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Offline Chris

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2018, 01:42:42 PM »
dependant on daughter going to Uni etc.

OMG..
H
Doesn't time fly !

What does she hope to study ?

Yes it does, she has been accepted (subject to A level results) at Lancaster, Manchester and Leeds universities, Lancaster is her preferred one though, it has an excellent reputation and ranked highly, she was there Saturday as it happens on a taster day. She will be doing business and finance.

However, she has just done a weeks work experience at BAE, only two from her college got approved, she has applied there also for an apprenticeship in Project Management and Finance, she loved it, she has got through 3 stages so far and interview is next, if she gets offered a job there she will take it, it would be silly not too, getting paid to do a degree and with all the opportunities that are available to her there is a no brainer, it is always well over subscribed but so far so good.

Offline Wiz

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2018, 10:31:52 PM »
Morning to you both, Chris and Moby

Chris regards to your wife and congrats for daughter.

Have been to Cyprus 3 times, travelled a lot around, including the North, have relatives there.... and I agree with Chris that Paphos is more interesting place, huge contrast from the North....but I liked Kyrenia and the very cheap fresh fish.by the port.

I can only guess that Moby is staying in the North  so I have something for you.

Read this article..... you may find it interesting before is deleted again by .....

http://europeanlawblog.eu/2018/03/05/lounes-naturalisation-and-brexit/

Enjoy your time....... ;D

PS: Moby first time I saw you writing something interesting and not been belligerent or PIA.

Offline msmoby

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2018, 12:32:35 AM »
Morning Chris,

Thanks for the update. My eldest is closer to thirty than twenty, now and it is scary how fast time flies

Great to see how well the little 'un's adapted.

Wiz, thank you.  We spent time in Paphos, Limassol, Larnaca and Kyrenia districts

SC is till there - on a 3 month Visa .. loving the CY Oranges and other local produce

I know about Lounes, thanks and the (London)Derry lass who has just won a test case in Belfast - allowing her US hubbie to reside in the UK - using the 2004/38/EC route - she was told she was 'British' and couldn't but pointed out the agreements of the Good Friday Agreement and that she chose to be Irish ..


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/feb/12/derry-woman-us-born-husband-uk-emma-de-souza
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Offline Chris

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2018, 01:13:58 AM »
Morning to you both, Chris and Moby

Chris regards to your wife and congrats for daughter.

Have been to Cyprus 3 times, travelled a lot around, including the North, have relatives there.... and I agree with Chris that Paphos is more interesting place, huge contrast from the North....but I liked Kyrenia and the very cheap fresh fish.by the port.



Thanks Wiz, yes there are many places that are worth visiting, the lovely weather helps of course.

Offline Chris

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2018, 01:15:16 AM »
Morning Chris,

Thanks for the update. My eldest is closer to thirty than twenty, now and it is scary how fast time flies

Great to see how well the little 'un's adapted.



Time, goes quicker than we realise, especially if you are having fun  :)  ......we are away later this month / early next month for a few days, reason is, we have been married 10 years this month, blimey!

Offline msmoby

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Well, having enjoyed the break, SC is still out there - trying to help sell the house for our friends - showing folks around


T'other morning as we chatted on SKYPE  - I was still in bed and SC was sunbathing - we heard a row - screaming - lots of shouting - eventually
Police Sirens and then gun shots ?

Turns out the Landlord of a place nearby was 'giving it the beans' - but with the wife of his tenant - and the husband turned up ( unexpectedly ) and caught them at it ...

There ensured a 'Crime of passion' as the furious husband - apparently' made his wife stab the lover ( the landlord) and the neighbours attacked the attackers ..got it ?


The Police arrived and fired into the air to disperse the revengeful neighbours..


SC ?  She just carried on sunbathing ....

I found this from an Azerbaijan ) newspaper.

http://vesti.az/news/357027



The house is still on the market in this quieter neighbourhood - if any one is interested .....
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Offline msmoby

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2018, 08:31:12 AM »
After 10 years most places change a lot - but not Cyprus...  it is stuck in a rut - while both 'sides' blame each other, when it is clear that it is time a new generation try to sort things out between them ....the problem being - will Turkey 'allow' it ?

The 'rump'  RoC is recovering from it's Euro crisis - having been a little too involved in Greece

Russian money has continued to flow in - despite bank accounts having over 100,000 Euros having an enforced haircut to help in the banking crisis


A new bank Russian Commercial Bank has sprung up - winning Cyprus 'bank of the year' in 2017 http://www.rcbcy.com/en/

Frankly, I find this part of Cyprus to be more western and tidy - but it has got v.expensive.

A new marina has been built in Limassol and the offices are in Cyprus, Piter and Moscow ... 

limassolmarina.com



Then there's the 'north'... By a UN security council degree - it's creation as a 'state' is not to be recognised and one can only fly here from Turkey or enter via 'the south'

We know know Russians from Samara, Ufa and folk from other former SSRs that have settled here and love it  - before a Russian speaker was rare - but now - I think it's the Crimea factor - Russian speakers are quite common



The Kremlin has threatened to recognise the 'TRNC' - the 'north' but will it - given it's ties with the Orthodox Christian 'south' ?

The north is like the twilight zone

We spotted one 178 ( Moscow) plated car and a ferry from Trabzon to Sochi may restart - so it might be fun to try a road-trip

Yesterday, we found a beautiful beach that was deserted -one that would be heaving elsewhere.  The 'govt' have made it an ecology zone and the beach  restaurant is powered by wind and solar. A generator is permitted in the evening to maintain fridge / freezers

SC was modelling the sheep dog bra ( rounds them up and points them in the right direction)








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Offline Wiz

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2018, 03:26:01 PM »
After 10 years most places change a lot - but not Cyprus...  it is stuck in a rut - while both 'sides' blame each other, when it is clear that it is time a new generation try to sort things out between them ....the problem being - will Turkey 'allow' it ?

Have you spoke to any Turkish Cypriot born in the north?

You will be surprised what they have to say about Turkey and Ertogan... and mostly about the immigrant colonisers from Anatolia........

Before the invasion there was only 80.000 and now with the colonisers are nearly 400.000 and the TC hate them.

Thanks to Kissinger and the UK. Divide and rule.!

 :evilgrin0002:

Offline msmoby

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2018, 10:30:33 PM »


Have you spoke to any Turkish Cypriot born in the north?

Naturally
You will be surprised what they have to say about Turkey and Ertogan... and mostly about the immigrant colonisers from Anatolia........

Before the invasion there was only 80.000 and now with the colonisers are nearly 400.000 and the TC hate them.


As ever, Wiz demonstrates a TOTAL lack of understanding re the ACTUAL situation on the ground.

Whilst it is true that many Turkish Cypriots resent the 'Turkification' of the 'north' - their kids have married Turks and they don't forget what happened in villages like Tochni - all males over 16 massacred by Hellenic 'patriots'

In 2003 TC's voted for a  Kofi Annan plan to 're-unify' the island and the Orthodox Church ( and the Kremlin ) succeeded in persuading Greek Cypriots to vote the plan down ....Since then, I have more sympathy for the plight of TCs and I don't recognise Wiz' 'interpretation' of a place where he relies on others - rather than seeing for himself ...

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2018, 01:24:43 PM »
Dear Moby

You obviously think that you are the only knowledgeable person on the world who knows everything and can express an opinion about everything!  :rolleye0009:

All other people here we are idiots and you are the only clever person on the world.

I have visited both parts of Cyprus twice in the past and I do have many relatives as also Turkish Cypriot friends who inform me accordingly. I am also old enough to remember what took place while Cyprus was under the British and what happened later during the invasion.

Now I am not going to give you a history lesson but simply may I remind you what the Brits did under Governor Harding and ask you if you remember how many Greek fighters he hanged for fighting with EOKA for the liberation of the island.

During that period there were no problems between the Greeks and Turkish Cypriots in the north until the British following their usual practice “Divide and Rule” to make sure, what ever was the result of the EOKA gorilla war, the British could keep the 2 bases in Cyprus as British Sovereign land.

At the time of the Independent agreement is Zurich the population was 18% TC and 82% GC and the TC had no problems with the majority of the Greek Cypriots but the next 3 years all problems started with the instigation of the British.

After the invasion by Turkey with British and American help, don’t forget the Radar on Troodos Mountain, blocking the Greek army ships, with your navy to reach Cyprus…. and the “Turkification” of the North, the British and the Americans, via the UN tried to impose the Anan Plan in 2004, which I read and it’s unworkable because it states the minority has the same rights with the majority, rotate the presidency role equally and on top, as a guarantor, a foreign person to make decisions, if they disagree.
Typical British colonial rule, supported by the Americans too and Israel, (involved in the Explorations of Gas and oil.)

For the past 2-3 years tried again to impose this plan ….. but no success,

Russia does not get involved because they know MI6 has created the AKEL, largest party in the south (Communistic party) and before any of its leaders visit Moscow always go there via London!

Now if you think you know better the situation than my relatives and friends from the North, than you must be working for MI6, but I think they don’t employ characters like you ….. maybe/possibly in small errands messenger jobs.  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

The fact is simple. Ertogan one’s he becomes a Sultan (Muslim Dictator) for ever, next month,  then he will try to incorporate the TRC to Turkey, because nobody recognise it,  so he can have rights to the Gas and Oil fields.

Remember that the Greek side in the south, despite all these problems from the double face British and Americans………has developed very well and there is no comparison between the two parts.

Just for your information my TC friends told me that they have no problems acquiring passports and other benefits health education etc from the CR as they are treated the same like the Greeks.

You of course took advantage of CR being a member of the EU and you know it well. :P

It’s good idea we never forget history and the duplicitous behaviour of the British and the USA. That is nothing new in my opinion.




 tiphat

Offline Wiz

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2018, 01:45:52 PM »
The Fallacies of the Cyprus “Problem” -
INTERNATIONAL RELATIONS




ILIAS KOUSKOUVELIS, AUG 12 2017

In the early morning of July 7, 2017, another round of negotiations under the auspices of the United Nations on the so called Cyprus “problem” has ended in Switzerland. Some are trying to understand why. Others, however, have ostensibly entered the “blame game” and/or misinformation, unjustly pointing the finger to the government of the Republic of Cyprus, because, allegedly, it did not make the necessary concessions, so as to satisfy Turkish demands. For those who are trying to understand why, I am arguing, hereinafter, that none should have expected these negotiations (or any previous) to succeed. They were doomed to fail for three reasons, which constitute the fallacies of the so-called Cyprus “problem”.


Fallacy One

The first fallacy is that international actors, international organizations, diplomats, and analysts are trying to understand first and deal then with a “problem”, and not with a case of pure and brutal military invasion perpetrated by Turkey in 1974 and still preserved illegally until today.[1] This is where all starts and all ends: in the thought dominating (our) minds that we are to deal with a “problem” and not with a flagrant violation of almost all fundamental principals of the United Nations Charter and a series of non implemented compulsory decisions of the Security Council.

In fact, Turkey still maintains some 40.000 heavily armed troops on the island, presenting since 1974 an every day threat for the very existence of what is left territorially of the Republic of Cyprus, making us wonder how the Republic of Cyprus’ citizens – EU citizens since 2004 – and its economy may endure such a situation. Turkey, as demonstrated in the negotiations, has not the intention to withdraw its occupation forces from the island (BBC 2017). Most important, even if those troops were to be reduced, Turkey was adamantly against abandoning the status of the guarantor power, contrary to the intention of the other two guarantors (the U.K. and Greece).

Why? The official narrative says in order to guarantee the rights and the security of the Turkish Cypriots (TRTWORLD 2017). Obviously, this is neither the real nor a convincing reason, as Turkey, given its record of human rights, cannot guarantee the rule of law, especially in an EU country. The real motive is the expansionist policy of Turkey, and its tactic to exercise through Cyprus pressure on the Republic, on Greece, on the EU, and more broadly, on the West.

It is clear that Turkey does not want to contribute to “solving” the problem. And this is the second fallacy committed by those who consider Turkey well-intentioned to solve the Cyprus “problem” under the rule of the AKP Party and of Erdogan, and given Turkey’s current and favorable general and regional distribution of power. In fact, Turkey’s position on Cyprus was clearly stated many years ago by Ahmet Davutoglu.[2] The following excerpts from his book are more than explicit:

“It is not possible for a country that neglects Cyprus to have a decisive saying in the global and regional politics. It cannot be active in world politics, because this small island occupies a position which can directly affect the strategic links between Asia and Africa, Europe and Africa, and Europe and Asia.  And it cannot be active in regional politics, because Cyprus has its eastern edge resembling an arrow that points to the Middle East, and its western edge establishing the cornerstone of the strategic balance among the eastern Mediterranean, the Balkans and North Africa”. (Davutoğlu 2008, 176)

“(…) Even if there was not one Muslim Turk there, Turkey had to maintain a Cyprus problem. No country can stay indifferent towards such an island, located in the heart of its very own vital space.” (Davutoğlu 2008, 179)

“Turkey needs to see the strategic advantage which it obtained… in the 1970s, not as the component of a Cyprus defence policy, directed towards maintaining the status quo, but as one of the diplomatic main supports of an aggressive maritime strategy”. (Davutoğlu 2008, 180)


Consequent to these views, Turkey not only continues the illegal occupation, but it also increases problems for Cyprus. Most characteristic is the aggressive stance over the issue of energy resources discovered in the Cypriot Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ) and the prospect of their exploitation.

Since 2010, in the very beginning, Turkey stated that it has rights to the resources, warned the countries of the region that supporting the moves of the Republic of Cyprus will have consequences in the Cyprus negotiations (Hurriyet Daily News, Jan. 5, 2011), and attempted to stop Cyprus and the various international companies to proceed with exploration (Hurriyet Daily News, Aug. 5, 2011). Then it moved on to an illegal agreement of delimiting the continental shelf with the self-proclaimed “Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus”, so as to carry out research into the area between itself and the northern cost of Cyprus (Hurriyet Daily News, Sept. 21, 2011). It has repeatedly sent research and military vessels in the Cypriot EEZ, whenever and wherever surveys were being held out, in order to, according to Erdoğan’s statement, protect the Turkish interests, thus causing tension in the region and reaction on the part of Israel, the U.S.A., and the EU.

Fallacy Three

From time to time Turkey remembers the Turkish Cypriots and declares that it maintains troops on the island and remains a guarantor, in order to protect their rights on the Mediterranean energy resources. Despite the inconsistency of whose rights Turkey is protecting, Turkish or Turkish Cypriot, this raises a question relative to the political importance of the Turkish Cypriots and their ability to negotiate independently from Turkey the solution of the “problem”. It is the answer to this question that constitutes the third reason explaining the failure of negotiations and, at the same time, reveals the third fallacy.

A big part of the negotiations was conducted between the leaders of the two communities, despite the fact that the one is the President of an internationally recognised state and the other the leader of a Community. But protocol, which no doubt matters in international relations, is not the obstacle here. The obstacle is that the Turkish Cypriots are so dependent on and from Turkey that they really do not have the ability to strike any deal if Turkey disagrees. It is therefore a fallacy to think that because the two communities on the island (perhaps genuinely) want to end the division, this is going to happen. And it is lost energy, human resources, political capital, time, money and unfulfilled hopes to have the impotent Turkish Cypriot leader discussing with a democratically elected, internationally recognised and with full power to strike a deal President of the Republic of Cyprus.

It is very nice having the two leaders meeting, taking the customary picture, and trying to solve the details of how a re-unified island and its government may work. But, it is also fallacious! Because, the solution of the Cyprus “problem” is totally dependent on the end of the occupation, which does not depend on the Turkish Cypriots! It depends on the Turkish government and particularly, at this moment, Erdogan.

Conclusion

Thus, if anyone in the future wants genuinely to deal with the “problem”, they should start where all negotiations should have had started since 1974. The place is called Ankara, the country is Turkey, the leader now is Erdogan, and what needs to be done is to end, first, the occupation and, second, the anachronism or the absurdity of a non EU country guaranteeing the rule of law and the security of an EU member state.

Otherwise, we will continue living in our minds with the fallacies of what has been named a “problem”, masking the crucial fact that Turkey is the invader and small Cyprus the victim.



Notes

[1] On the invasion and its consequences see the Historical Review of The Cyprus Question of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Cyprus available at: http://www.mfa.gov.cy/mfa/mfa2016.nsf/mfa08_en/mfa08_en - OpenDocument

[2] He served successively as adviser to Erdogan on foreign affairs, Minister of Foreign Affairs, and Prime Minister.

Source:

http://antifon.blogspot.co.uk/2017/08/the-fallacies-of-cyprus-problem-e.html#more

Offline msmoby

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2018, 01:59:12 PM »

You obviously think that you are the only knowledgeable person on the world who knows everything and can express an opinion about them.

Unlike you - I go to the places you spout bollox about ...As we know - you've never been to Israel ... it shows

All other people here we are idiots and you are the only clever person on the world.

It is certainly amusing that many folks who fawn over VVP don't actually GO to Russia..in fact they bitch about the visa regime - as an 'excuse' ...

I have visited both parts of Cyprus twice in the past and I do have many relatives as also Turkish Cypriot friends who inform me accordingly. I am also old enough to remember what took place while Cyprus was under the British and what happened later during the invasion.

This v. someone who lived there nearly 10 years and is here, now  ..I am bloomin' sure I know FAR more about the place than you ever will

Now I am not going to give you a history lesson but simply may I remind you what the Brits did under Governor Harding and ask you if you remember how many Greek fighters he hanged for fighting with EOKA for the liberation of the island.

During that period there were no problems between the Greeks and Turkish Cypriots in the north until the British following their usual practice “Divide and Rule” to make sure, what ever was the result of the EOKA gorilla war, the British could keep the 2 bases in Cyprus as British Sovereign land.

IF you paid attention - you would rather copy and paste the thoughts of others - I learnt - long ago of Britain's aim to involve Turkey - as Greece was screaming for Enosis ( union ) - with Cyprus...  Yes, divide and rule...

My neighbour in Limassol served in the 50's as a soldier and fought EOKA and is now firm friends with his EOKA GC neighbour - between them and my TC mates Ismet and Mustafa - now living in the north - from originally from Baf ( Paphos) and Limas(s)ol, respectively and a few other notable Cypriots - I've been privileged to listen to how they've stayed friends through the 50's to today and their experiences through these times.   


At the time of the Independent agreement is Zurich the population was 18% TC and 82% GC and the TC had no problems with the majority of the Greek Cypriots but the next 3 years all problems started with the instigation of the British.

Sorry, that is patent nonsense..  SC calls and is more interesting ... Will respond when she's on her way back to Russia

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2018, 11:55:32 PM »


all problems started with the instigation of the British.

Not all, Dear Wiz,

Greece agitated for union with Cyprus - seeking rulings at the UN ... so the Brits - seeking to retain the bases - tried to involved a then disinterested Turkey ( mid 50's) - We've discussed this book, before

https://www.amazon.com/Hostage-History-Cyprus-Ottomans-Kissinger/dp/1859841899  I recommend you re-read it


After the invasion by Turkey


Where*I* am in Cyprus, it is known as the PEACE MOVEMENT  - as Right wing Cypriots - with help from the Greek Junta ( as possibly US encouragement (?) tried to kill the President of an already fractured Cyprus ( many towns and villages living -surrounded in adversity ) - and GREEK CYPRIOTS fighting/ killing each other


 with British and American help, don’t forget the Radar on Troodos Mountain, blocking the Greek army ships, with your navy to reach Cyprus….

1/ Whilst the book I mention certainly suggests Kissinger was hoping to remove the 'commie in a Cassock' - Makarios - fearing he would grant the Soviets a naval base - or worse - the contention - re the Brits is bollox

2/ Callaghan received a call from Kissinger to WITHDRAW subs and other naval craft  blockading the Turks and Greeks trying to land on the island and the UK had refused a request from Turkey to allow a landing on SBA ( Sovereign base area ) territory ( Britain 'rents' territory from the Rep of Cyprus for it's bases - as part of the independence in 1960 )

3/ I have told you before the dome on top of the island is rumoured to be empty and it certainly couldn't have 'blocked [only] Greek (naval ) ships' - radar.... not that the Greeks had any stomach to fight Turkey ... did they Wiz?  The Junta fell - as the Army refused to attack  :chuckle:


and the “Turkification” of the North, the British and the Americans, via the UN tried to impose the Anan Plan in 2004, which I read and it’s unworkable because it states the minority has the same rights with the majority, rotate the presidency role equally and on top, as a guarantor, a foreign person to make decisions, if they disagree.

1/ Kofi Annan ( two n's) was no lackey of the US / UK, etc., - If you have studied his record as the head of the UN and listened to some of his recent interviews - you'd know that, Wiz ...

2/ The Annan Plan was openly discussed for three years - it was voted on a matter of days before the 'rump' RoC joined the EU - the daft GCs listened to the Orthodox Church - who were happier for continued ethic segregation and moaning of 'injustice'   It was an extremely fair compromise - allowing a long period of continued segregation - with tracts of territory slowly returning to the 'south' - Morfou would now be in the 'south' and eventual - total reunification. AKEL - the party of the left - asked it's supporters to vote NO - ( our no means yes ? ) and the President - a hard liner, Right of centre - cried on TV and suggested a 'No' .... Those who studied Tassos 'Liealotopolus' knew he wasn't an honest broker - he had been influenced - but by who ?...  Cyprus has been ruled by more moderate leaders since these two selfish gits got voted out of office - but the damage was done.   

The RoC thought joining the EU would put pressure on Turkey to leave the island  :'(

4/ Cyprus was the only of the 10 new EU members in 2004 - not to put membership to the vote.. such was the confidence that the Annan Plan wasn't needed ... Since that vote, I know tend to favour TCs - as they were prepared to compromise and trust third parties to protect them from the far greater numbers of GCs

Now we come to the part where the best selling Eng lang Cypriot newspaper mocks this contention..

Russia does not get involved because they know MI6 has created the AKEL, largest party in the south (Communistic party) and before any of its leaders visit Moscow always go there via London!

 http://cyprus-mail.com/2016/04/26/tassos-papadopoulos-russia-and-the-annan-plan/

Tassos Papadopoulos, Russia and the Annan Plan

Those interested to read will fall about laughing as Wiz' 'MI6 stooges' must have defied their controllers to vote no to Annian ;))

Typical British colonial rule, supported by the Americans too and Israel, (involved in the Explorations of Gas and oil.)

Indeed, it was the prospect of Oil / Gas reserves that probably had a newly elected Erdogan support Annan - as the TCs would have shared in any bonanza.

Your 'knowledge' of RoC / Israeli relations is appalling - Cyprus has long supported the Palestinians and has been critical of Israel last week 

For the past 2-3 years tried again to impose this plan ….. but no success,

You say 'imposition' - many Cypriots still feel their leaders have a duty to sort out the differences..  The talks continue .. These two leaders have much in common and the closer ties between Russia and Turkey may actually bring about a settlement.

Now if you think you know better the situation than my relatives and friends from the North, than you must be working for MI6, but I think they don’t employ characters like you ….. maybe/possibly in small errands messenger jobs.

As I just demonstrated, I clearly have much better knowledge of the past 60 years events than you..  and your 'fantasises' as to my lifestyle

The fact is simple. Ertogan one’s he becomes a Sultan (Muslim Dictator) for ever, next month,  then he will try to incorporate the TRC to Turkey, because nobody recognise it,  so he can have rights to the Gas and Oil fields.

Let's indulge you...  let's say Erdogan announced 'TRNC' (sic) was part of Turkey

The oil fields are to the south of the island - please tell us on what basis would 'Gtr Turkey ' have a 'claim' ?


Remember that the Greek side in the south, despite all these problems from the double face British and Americans………has developed very well and there is no comparison between the two parts.

You might be surprised at the improvement in infrastructure in the 'north'  - but I'll readily concede that it's continued non-recognition hols the north back. The danger is that Russia might one day ( as mentioned in 2014) recognise 'TRNC' in retaliation for the santions on Crimea? ..

Just for your information my TC friends told me that they have no problems acquiring passports and other benefits health education etc from the CR as they are treated the same like the Greeks.

 You mean fellow Cypriots ( not 'Greeks ) ? ... Naturally, the RoC treats all those born of Cypriot parentage as CYPRIOT..   

You of course took advantage of CR being a member of the EU and you know it well.

My reasons for coming to Cyprus pre-date it's accession and were unrelated ...  that I subsequently met and married a Russian and used a route to bring her to the UK - was pure coincidence. The Directive of 2004 - post dated my acquiring an Irish passport

It’s good idea we never forget history and the duplicitous behaviour of the British and the USA. That is nothing new in my opinion.

When your 'history' is as selective' and often proven to be bogus / ill -researched - like your nation US has invaded post ?


Your maps miss out 1963-1974 when many Turkish Cypriots lived in enclaves - never leaving their villages -  having to smuggle in food / medicals supplies....

'Thanks', Wiz ..  I prefer seeking history with my own eyes - talking to those who lived it

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Offline msmoby

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2018, 01:58:15 AM »
Despite Wiz attempt to divert the thread .. ;)

Larnaca

Third biggest city in the 'South' (?) and whole of island (?) 


Mackenzie Beach is RIGHT next to the beginning of the runway and we had two 20-something, pretty lasses to the right, 3 making asses of themselves to the left and 2 families behind us - with two Cypriot lads trying to speak Russian to them ;)

It was really interesting to watch the planes on Flightradar24, then see them on finals

http://www.youtu.be/uISePVeQhlc


Madam - not interested ;)





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Offline msmoby

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2018, 02:00:54 AM »
I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2018, 01:14:26 PM »
Moby

Your video links.... do not work .... only a toples lady photo appear.......  ;D

I am not trying to divert, as you say the subject……neither will ever visit a terrorist nation who is killing people with impunity and does not respect International laws and conventions. You may accept such assignments but not me. At my age, I don’t want to become a hero… You may do!

Before I buy any book, I read the various reviews and then I make up my mind….. if it’s worth paying the price and in this case I am not prepared to pay $40 Dollars for a book with so many different opinions.

Here I copy 2 reviews so different for C. Hitchens book: Hostage to History


5 of 5 stars - The turks waded ashore and Christians were massacred

BySeth J. Frantzman HALL OF FAME on September 14, 2003

We all know the story of Cyprus, well actually none of us do. None of us remmmeber what happaned at Famagusta. The Muslims were sieging the city and the indegenous CHristians were praying to god to help them. Then the Muslims lured the christian leader out under flag of truce. In front of the city the muslims cut his skin off him and stuffed it with hay, he was still alive to see his skin hanging on a dummy body. THis is typical 'peaceful' muslim behavior of course but what one forgets is that even with the ottoman victory the christians lived on, and currently occupy half of Cyrpus. THis would not have been the case had Kissinger and the Viscious intolerant anti-minority Tirks had their way(remmember what the turks and other 'peaceful' muslims did to the armenians?). Hitchens tells the story of Cyrpus as it happaned. How the Greek Cypriots were betrayed and how the machinations of foriegn powers brought the island to civil strife and finally turkish invasion. WIth the Turkish invasion the christians were forced to flee or be massacred, but of course like most population exchanges the only people that had to leave were the non muslims, the muslims in christian cyprus stayed put because western powers are always more benevolent(remmember what happened with India/Pakistan in 1948 how all the hindu/sihks were massacred in Pakistan but westerners get mad when one muslim dies in India). Hitchens book is an important work and not biased, it does focus to much on foriengers and does not talk about the day to day violence that overtook Cyprus prior to the invasion.

0 out of 5 stars - Hackneyed History
ByR. Danielson October 20, 2008

As much as I admire Christopher Hitchens, when it comes to Cyprus, he completely loses his mind. With this book, Hitchens falls into the intellectually lazy trap of forming his conclusions before seeking out material to support them. Essentially, he makes an argument, and then asks the reader to take his word for it. Although replete with quotes, the book contains almost no citations that the reader can trace to a source.

Hitchens makes it all seem so simple: the Cypriots and Greece are the virtuous ones, while the Turks, Britain, and the US are the villains. But anyone who has spent any time at all seriously researching this subject knows this just isn't so.

The book also contains so many historical howlers that anyone quoting it does so at his own peril. Because of its formulaic structure it might appeal to a popular audience, but has virtually no scholarly value. I, for one, am waiting for Mr. Hitchens to re-visit this subject, do the actual research, and come back with a book worthy of him.


The Cyprus Conspiracy: America, Espionage and the Turkish Invasion
Paperback – 25 Jun 2001
by Brendan O'Malley  (Author), Ian Craig (Author) Price £12.99

Top customer reviews

Neon
5.0 out of 5 stars - Exceptionally interesting and impartial - 21 May 2016
Format: Paperback Verified Purchase

One of the fairest and impartial overviews I have read. Of course there are some parts which are omitted, but overall I would definitely recommend this book over nearly all other publications on the matter. The book slightly understates the negative British influence on the events which transpired (and this is coming from a Brit), but it accurately represents the deep conspiracy and the devastating effects of American interference, and its long lasting effects that remain to this day.


A. A. C. Condie

5.0 out of 5 stars - Disturbing reading - 29 May 2012
Format: Paperback Verified Purchase

Having visited Cyprus and with relatives living there, I have always been interested in the politics of the country. I knew about the British colonial rule, EOKA insurgency, and the Turkish invasion in 1974. I thought I knew what it was all about but this book educated me into how murky and complicated the issues are with Cyprus. No one comes out of this well - the British, Greeks, Turkish, Americans, and the Cypriots (Greek and Turkish).

I would not post any more positive reviews but if you want to have a look and check it,

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyprus-Conspiracy-America-Espionage-Invasion/dp/1860647375

you will find 45 positive reviews and only 2 negative.

I bought it, read it and I think it’s an excellent book and more accurate than others I have read. The Authors BTW are not Greeks or Turkish …. Where Christopher  Hitchens is British. Give me good reason why I should trust his narrative and not the second one?

BTW I guess you are not in Cyprus anymore….. and you are writing again porkies.

Obviously you enjoy using your fantasy to write lies about Greeks killing Turks and not a word about the British atrocities and responsibility!

It is all “The Greek’s Fault”.. and today around 40 bases/Stations on the island are all Greek and not American and GCHQ!

I asked you to write an honest travel report and you wrote ... Fcuk all!

Well done old chum!

 :coffeeread:

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2018, 07:15:12 PM »
My guess after looking at a short history of Cyprus.This is a quagmire in a swamp.

It is amusing that some note and discredit C. Hitchens who was married to a woman from Cyprus and spent numerous years there .
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline msmoby

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Re: Why Cyprus is a GREAT place to go with a FSU partner
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2018, 07:20:01 PM »
Moby

Your video links.... do not work .... only a toples lady photo appear....... 

As ever, you don't actually read.. for those of us without relic OS' - the video is viewable ..


I am not trying to divert

Yup - you do - check the tread title



neither will ever visit a terrorist nation who is killing people with impunity and does not respect International laws and conventions. You may accept such assignments but not me. At my age, I don’t want to become a hero… You may do!

You my have noticed, I go where I want - irrespective of what I think of the leadership of the nation

Before I buy any book, I read the various reviews and then I make up my mind….. if it’s worth paying the price and in this case I am not prepared to pay $40 Dollars for a book with so many different opinions.

Think you are AN IDIOT..   I read books - even if the author has views opposing mine - that way one 'gets' their perspective.  I use the digital library service online

Here I copy 2 reviews so different for C. Hitchens book:

..and you post a guy giving it 5/5 and posting historical shyte ?

One of my suppliers - when I worked here was a young man in the CY National Guard ..  He was under orders NOT to shoot at the Turkish Army - he was stationed near 'Escape Beach' as the Turks started to land - and they fell back - rather than antagonise - believing it would be a temporary 'occupation'


BySeth J. Frantzman HALL OF FAME on September 14, 2003

We all know the story of Cyprus, well actually none of us do. None of us remmmeber what happaned at Famagusta. The Muslims were sieging the city and the indegenous CHristians were praying to god to help them.

This is one of those books that totally ignores that TCs were besieged - yes - within the walls of Famagusta - for YEARS... '63-74 - this is one of your 'historical references', Wiz?




0 out of 5 stars - Hackneyed History
ByR. Danielson October 20, 2008

As much as I admire Christopher Hitchens, when it comes to Cyprus, he completely loses his mind. With this book, Hitchens falls into the intellectually lazy trap of forming his conclusions before seeking out material to support them. Essentially, he makes an argument, and then asks the reader to take his word for it. Although replete with quotes, the book contains almost no citations that the reader can trace to a source.

Hitchens makes it all seem so simple: the Cypriots and Greece are the virtuous ones, while the Turks, Britain, and the US are the villains. But anyone who has spent any time at all seriously researching this subject knows this just isn't so.

Well, you chose another shyte review.

Hitchens points out failings on all sides




BTW I guess you are not in Cyprus anymore….. and you are writing again porkies.

You guess wrong - as usual ..  My IP address will show a Turkish IP - but I am on the island of Cyprus - it is 4am and I can't sleep - as SC will be leaving today - her Visa for the RoC expires and she must leave.   She is flying back to Russia. As I write, the first call to the Mosque of the days is being broadcast.  I flew out on Sunday 13th from East Mids Airport for 53.99 GBP with Thomas Cook Airlines


Obviously you enjoy using your fantasy to write lies about Greeks killing Turks and not a word about the British atrocities and responsibility!

Wiz' - you fantasize about my life off board, constantly ... you are fixated with it ;) 

Greeks - REAL Greeks - killed left wing Cypriots and aided the likes of Sampson to try to kill the President ( Makarios) ... Then they started to turn their attention to TCs in villages like Tochni - in the Limassol district - killing all males under 16 - but failing to kill one - who told the tale. Atrocities were committed by all sides. 


It is all “The Greek’s Fault”.. and today around 40 bases/Stations on the island are all Greek and not American and GCHQ!

Wiz, I am not 1 mile from where the American NSA had a base on Cyprus in the 70's ... One of my Armenian CY mate's Dad worked there.. west of Kyrenia...( now in the Turkish zone ) ...  Cyprus had US / UK and Greek bases then, too - now it has many Turkish ones - allegedly to protect the 'soft under-belly' of Turkey ..

It is noted you didn't deal with the fact that the Greek Junta collapsed - when the Army  were ordered to invade Turkey - in response to the invasion / peace movement on Cyprus... 'brave' Greece - kicked off a civil war and ended up getting Cyprus split in two ..

I asked you to write an honest travel report and you wrote ... Fcuk all!

Well done old chum!

 :coffeeread:

I started this thread and you HAVE polluted  it with historical shyte and your usual bollox about my life.

@AvhdB.. an accurate description - yet as with Ireland - and the Balkans - places with civil wars and pent up hatred - tend to be populated with v.friendly people

It only took a few idiots - most nearly dead, now ... ( save for Kissinger ) to make this place as bizarre as it is- yet well worth a visit







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