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Author Topic: Importing fiance and child  (Read 5873 times)

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Offline Omega1982

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Importing fiance and child
« on: February 01, 2018, 08:36:45 PM »
Hello gentlemen.  I hope everyone is well.  I am communicating with a single mother aged 30 from Moscow which has a small daughter.  We met last year in Moscow.  She is divorced and she has taken her daughter to Turkey several times for vacation.  So she has some permission from the father.  I have not been able to obtain a clear answer from her so I ask here.  What document is needed to legally bring the daughter here.  Would the father (which also lives in Moscow) have to sign something else?  I'm thinking that one thing is to have permission to go on holiday and the other is to relocate permanently.  Thus far I have only received two responses regarding this issue in the past couple of months.  The first response was "I know what I have to do when the time comes".  The second response was "if this is too much of a problem for you then stop communicating with me".  I know she's been to Turkey with her daughter several times. 

On another note, the ex husband owns several night clubs in Moscow.  Do you guys think this is a legitimate profession? 

Offline Annushka

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2018, 11:01:33 PM »
Block your lady! Does she have another anatomy? ;D :ROFL:
Please, for my example. When my son entered the Cadet Corps of Russia (Moscow, Strogino),

http://www.ksh1700.ru/index/0-2

 the biological father did not give permission to live in Moscow! And I worked there! So these are officers. And you are talking about public catering) :ROFL:. Simply, you are lost in the vastness of Russia. :thumbsup: tiphat

Offline Poldark

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2018, 01:37:21 AM »
On another note, the ex husband owns several night clubs in Moscow.  Do you guys think this is a legitimate profession?
Why wouldn't it be a legitimate profession?

My opinion is that you're in over your head if you doubt such things.


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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2018, 01:50:52 AM »
Hello gentlemen.  I hope everyone is well.  I am communicating with a single mother aged 30 from Moscow which has a small daughter.  We met last year in Moscow.  She is divorced and she has taken her daughter to Turkey several times for vacation.  So she has some permission from the father.  I have not been able to obtain a clear answer from her so I ask here.  What document is needed to legally bring the daughter here.  Would the father (which also lives in Moscow) have to sign something else?  I'm thinking that one thing is to have permission to go on holiday and the other is to relocate permanently.  Thus far I have only received two responses regarding this issue in the past couple of months.  The first response was "I know what I have to do when the time comes".  The second response was "if this is too much of a problem for you then stop communicating with me".  I know she's been to Turkey with her daughter several times. 

On another note, the ex husband owns several night clubs in Moscow.  Do you guys think this is a legitimate profession?

Is English your first language?

Offline Omega1982

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2018, 02:52:03 AM »
Hello gentlemen.  I hope everyone is well.  I am communicating with a single mother aged 30 from Moscow which has a small daughter.  We met last year in Moscow.  She is divorced and she has taken her daughter to Turkey several times for vacation.  So she has some permission from the father.  I have not been able to obtain a clear answer from her so I ask here.  What document is needed to legally bring the daughter here.  Would the father (which also lives in Moscow) have to sign something else?  I'm thinking that one thing is to have permission to go on holiday and the other is to relocate permanently.  Thus far I have only received two responses regarding this issue in the past couple of months.  The first response was "I know what I have to do when the time comes".  The second response was "if this is too much of a problem for you then stop communicating with me".  I know she's been to Turkey with her daughter several times. 

On another note, the ex husband owns several night clubs in Moscow.  Do you guys think this is a legitimate profession?

Is English your first language?

No.  It's my third language after Cantonese and Russian. 

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2018, 03:01:04 AM »
Hello gentlemen.  I hope everyone is well.  I am communicating with a single mother aged 30 from Moscow which has a small daughter.  We met last year in Moscow.  She is divorced and she has taken her daughter to Turkey several times for vacation.  So she has some permission from the father.  I have not been able to obtain a clear answer from her so I ask here.  What document is needed to legally bring the daughter here.  Would the father (which also lives in Moscow) have to sign something else?  I'm thinking that one thing is to have permission to go on holiday and the other is to relocate permanently.  Thus far I have only received two responses regarding this issue in the past couple of months.  The first response was "I know what I have to do when the time comes".  The second response was "if this is too much of a problem for you then stop communicating with me".  I know she's been to Turkey with her daughter several times. 

On another note, the ex husband owns several night clubs in Moscow.  Do you guys think this is a legitimate profession?

Is English your first language?

No.  It's my third language after Cantonese and Russian.

I wasn’t sure about your background but it makes sense.

With regards to your post, it all sounds a bit sketchy. If she’s suggesting you stop communicating with her over simple questions about a hypothetical future, don’t waste your time communicating with her or finding out about “importing” them.

She sounds like trouble.

Offline Gipsy

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2018, 05:55:51 AM »
Hello gentlemen.  I hope everyone is well.  I am communicating with a single mother aged 30 from Moscow which has a small daughter.  We met last year in Moscow.  She is divorced and she has taken her daughter to Turkey several times for vacation.  So she has some permission from the father.  I have not been able to obtain a clear answer from her so I ask here.  What document is needed to legally bring the daughter here.  Would the father (which also lives in Moscow) have to sign something else?  I'm thinking that one thing is to have permission to go on holiday and the other is to relocate permanently.  Thus far I have only received two responses regarding this issue in the past couple of months.  The first response was "I know what I have to do when the time comes".  The second response was "if this is too much of a problem for you then stop communicating with me".  I know she's been to Turkey with her daughter several times. 

On another note, the ex husband owns several night clubs in Moscow.  Do you guys think this is a legitimate profession?

I don't know about the US rules, but for the UK, a letter of agreement to leave Russia is required, would think its the same for the US.
If she is the ex-wife of a Moscow night club owner (several as you say), its a mafia racket, my advice to you would be to take big steps (as in run like hell) away from this situation, stop all communications.
Hope that you are hearing well...
Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen

Online andrewfi

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2018, 08:41:20 AM »
I gotta say that I agree with Gipsy. The guy might be a lovely fellow and everything and I'd not be too worried about that stuff except that the woman is behaving in a non-sensible manner.

What she is wanting to do, reading between the lines is sort out the child problem without your input. That means it will not be done right and stuff not done right equals the end of the relationship because the paperwork won't, well, ...work.

My guess, her plan is to bugger off without saying anything to anyone, that'd explain her attitude to you because she knows, on some level that this won't work and that you would know it won't work.

Here's a trick, a suggestion, a lesson that can be learned: Set some standards for yourself. Don't accept the first woman who says 'yes' (and don't tell us otherwise!)

Don't settle for damaged goods - and if we can see damaged goods writ large here then you should be able to do so!

The woman you marry should not make your life worse by being in it. She should not present you with problems and not allow you input into their solution. If that's her strategy it will always be her strategy - and the same goes for the emotional blackmail.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline msmoby

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2018, 10:13:37 AM »
I'd walk away, simply because of the rudeness of her answers. IF she was really in to you and serious - you'd not be getting such answers - sorry ..

BTW, being previously married to a nightclub owner in Russia ( with whom your 'target' has had kids )  should not preclude a relationship leading to living abroad. Some Dad's are 'happy' to rely on another man to provide.

I know someone in that situation - who has residency rights - and works in a reasonably well-paid position...

I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline Contrarian

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2018, 01:09:33 PM »
3 out of 3 (Rosco, Gypsy and Andrew) have given you excellent advice. Good luck to you. BTW were you serious about speaking Russian fluently?
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. P. J. O'Rourke

Offline Jerash

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2018, 04:41:08 PM »
Dissenting voice - why does the ex matter? He’s the ex. As to her and the child, she’s told you she knows what to do when and if it becomes relevant. Obviously she isn’t ready to move to you (where’s “here”, btw?), and she knows the steps if and when it becomes relevant. That’s why you got the second answer.

I’m not sure about Turkey, but there are some countries women can travel with their children without consent from the ex.


.

Offline dcguyusa

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2018, 05:08:11 PM »
I don't know the regulations regarding Russian travel with children, but for a tourist visa to the USA, families can travel as a group to this country.  Don't know if the father needs to be contacted to obtain his permission, but if they have been to Turkey previously, I would think it wouldn't be necessary.  Owning night clubs could be legitimate.  It would be easy to find other women there especially if you are the owner.

Gung hay fat choy (Feb. 16).
An uninformed opponent is a dangerous opponent.

"Y'all be makin shit up" ~ Markeith Loyd

Offline Omega1982

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2018, 11:17:55 PM »
Thank you Andrew and Gypsy.  As always I agree and appreciate your vast knowledge and intelligence and firsthand experience of in country living. 

The supply of young and attractive women in Russia willing to relocate to America has decreased, and in turn many times the price has also increased.  This one is actually half Russian half Soviet (non Slavic).  In what would have seemed like a logical substitute to a scarce good, resulted in a damaged good.  There are some basic economic concepts here. 

Offline Gipsy

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2018, 12:41:38 AM »
Thank you Andrew and Gypsy.  As always I agree and appreciate your vast knowledge and intelligence and firsthand experience of in country living. 

The supply of young and attractive women in Russia willing to relocate to America has decreased, and in turn many times the price has also increased.  This one is actually half Russian half Soviet (non Slavic).  In what would have seemed like a logical substitute to a scarce good, resulted in a damaged good.  There are some basic economic concepts here.

What you may mean by this, is possibly, "The supply of Russian women looking for a foreign (US) man to marry may well have seen a reduction"...Possibly in part to the perceived current US-Ru situation (Amongst other reasons), however you should note the mentality of Ru ladies.
I would venture to suggest that, IF they fall in love with a foreign (read US) man, they will follow him to the ends of the earth if necessary..
That  is my own experience only, other men (posters here) may have different opinions of course...
Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen

Offline Gipsy

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2018, 12:43:00 AM »
Dissenting voice - why does the ex matter? He’s the ex. As to her and the child, she’s told you she knows what to do when and if it becomes relevant. Obviously she isn’t ready to move to you (where’s “here”, btw?), and she knows the steps if and when it becomes relevant. That’s why you got the second answer.

I’m not sure about Turkey, but there are some countries women can travel with their children without consent from the ex.
.

I would think that this is not exactly correct.....
Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen

Offline Gipsy

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2018, 12:57:08 AM »
I don't know the regulations regarding Russian travel with children, but for a tourist visa to the USA, families can travel as a group to this country.  Don't know if the father needs to be contacted to obtain his permission, but if they have been to Turkey previously, I would think it wouldn't be necessary.  Owning night clubs could be legitimate.  It would be easy to find other women there especially if you are the owner.

Gung hay fat choy (Feb. 16).

It seems that Russian laws pertaining to this subject are a little confusing, as a woman can take here children out of the country for a holiday without any Fathers written consent, BUT, the father should have written consent from the mother to do the same. (he can be refused exit from Russia if checks are made).
However, IF the child is being removed from Ru on a more permanent basis, by either parent, written consent is required, unless, one of the parents has legally denounced his/her parenthood, or been removed from parenthood in a Ru court.
A slightly different law applies when one or both parents are not the biological parents.
HTH
Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen

Offline leslied

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2018, 04:09:13 AM »
Dissenting voice - why does the ex matter? He’s the ex. As to her and the child, she’s told you she knows what to do when and if it becomes relevant. Obviously she isn’t ready to move to you (where’s “here”, btw?), and she knows the steps if and when it becomes relevant. That’s why you got the second answer.

I’m not sure about Turkey, but there are some countries women can travel with their children without consent from the ex.


Russian Citizens do not require a visa to enter Turkey for tourist or business reasons for a 60 day visit.

Turkish immigration is very lax (i.e. almost non existent) when it comes to checking parental permission documents for tourist visits.  If the child was listed as abducted then the child's passport would "flag up" and the travel party would be detained. Otherwise you will just be waived through.

One really cannot "vanish" in Turkey anymore.  If you overstay your visa you will be fined and deported.  Simple as that.  Turkey now has over 3 million "migrants" and the laws governing them are tightening.

If the mother wished to obtain a "Ikamet"(residence visa) for herself and the child then the fathers permission is mandatory.  The Turkish authorities would contact him direct.  Turkey is a Muslim country so the father's wishes are paramount.

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2018, 04:18:14 AM »
The supply of young and attractive women in Russia willing to relocate to America has decreased, and in turn many times the price has also increased.  This one is actually half Russian half Soviet (non Slavic).  In what would have seemed like a logical substitute to a scarce good, resulted in a damaged good.  There are some basic economic concepts here.

While I am the first to say that these relationships are both economically motivated and economically managed it is a mistake for you to undervalue yourself.

Here's the truth:
1) You'd be MUCH better off looking for a wife from where you live.
2) You need to start working on your self-esteem such that you understand you are worth more than you seem willing, time and again, to accept.
3) While economic factors play into the process fo finding ANY life partner the relationship between you and your future wife is largely emotional and if you don't get that bit right then everything else will fail - except in the edge case where you are able, for one reason or another, to manage a relationship that is solely economics. We know that this is not you because you are looking for a wife and that is a largely emotional relationship.

You might need some external help with both these points.

...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Jerash

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2018, 04:19:14 AM »
Dissenting voice - why does the ex matter? He’s the ex. As to her and the child, she’s told you she knows what to do when and if it becomes relevant. Obviously she isn’t ready to move to you (where’s “here”, btw?), and she knows the steps if and when it becomes relevant. That’s why you got the second answer.

I’m not sure about Turkey, but there are some countries women can travel with their children without consent from the ex.
.

I would think that this is not exactly correct.....

I know someone who picks her vacations abroad based on this criterium, so that her daughter can come as well. There is no contact with the father.


.

Offline Jerash

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Importing fiance and child
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2018, 04:25:25 AM »
About permanent immigration - I can speak about the Canadian case, which is that immigration is going to want to see a verified certificate of parental consent when there is a child who is planning to immigrate with only one parent. If such a certificate cannot be produced, the application is going to be refused.

While I cannot say with certainty, I imagine that immigration to the US is similar in this particular regard.

Offline Gipsy

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2018, 05:02:28 AM »
Dissenting voice - why does the ex matter? He’s the ex. As to her and the child, she’s told you she knows what to do when and if it becomes relevant. Obviously she isn’t ready to move to you (where’s “here”, btw?), and she knows the steps if and when it becomes relevant. That’s why you got the second answer.

I’m not sure about Turkey, but there are some countries women can travel with their children without consent from the ex.
.

I would think that this is not exactly correct.....

I know someone who picks her vacations abroad based on this criterium, so that her daughter can come as well. There is no contact with the father.


.

Please re-read post 15 in this thread...  :coffeeread:
Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen

Offline Jerash

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Importing fiance and child
« Reply #21 on: February 03, 2018, 05:13:41 AM »
I don't know the regulations regarding Russian travel with children, but for a tourist visa to the USA, families can travel as a group to this country.  Don't know if the father needs to be contacted to obtain his permission, but if they have been to Turkey previously, I would think it wouldn't be necessary.  Owning night clubs could be legitimate.  It would be easy to find other women there especially if you are the owner.

Gung hay fat choy (Feb. 16).

It seems that Russian laws pertaining to this subject are a little confusing, as a woman can take here children out of the country for a holiday without any Fathers written consent, BUT, the father should have written consent from the mother to do the same. (he can be refused exit from Russia if checks are made).
However, IF the child is being removed from Ru on a more permanent basis, by either parent, written consent is required, unless, one of the parents has legally denounced his/her parenthood, or been removed from parenthood in a Ru court.
A slightly different law applies when one or both parents are not the biological parents.
HTH

Agree that it is a convoluted topic whenever visas, immigration, and children are involved. You seem to be referring to Russia’s exit requirements, but it doesn’t mean a mother can take her child wherever she likes for a holiday without consent of the other parent, because when exiting Russia, there needs to be a destination and each country has its own entry requirements.

For example, here’s what you are looking at for a Schengen visa:

The minor’s birth certificate
The application form has to be signed by both parents
In cases where one parent has full custody over the child, the family court order has to be attached.
Certified copies of ID/passport of both parents.
The notarized parental authorization signed by both parents or guardians is attached if the minor is to be travelling alone.
(Source: https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/schengen-visa-application-requirements/)


.

Offline Gipsy

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #22 on: February 03, 2018, 12:55:58 PM »
I don't know the regulations regarding Russian travel with children, but for a tourist visa to the USA, families can travel as a group to this country.  Don't know if the father needs to be contacted to obtain his permission, but if they have been to Turkey previously, I would think it wouldn't be necessary.  Owning night clubs could be legitimate.  It would be easy to find other women there especially if you are the owner.

Gung hay fat choy (Feb. 16).

It seems that Russian laws pertaining to this subject are a little confusing, as a woman can take here children out of the country for a holiday without any Fathers written consent, BUT, the father should have written consent from the mother to do the same. (he can be refused exit from Russia if checks are made).
However, IF the child is being removed from Ru on a more permanent basis, by either parent, written consent is required, unless, one of the parents has legally denounced his/her parenthood, or been removed from parenthood in a Ru court.
A slightly different law applies when one or both parents are not the biological parents.
HTH

Agree that it is a convoluted topic whenever visas, immigration, and children are involved. You seem to be referring to Russia’s exit requirements, but it doesn’t mean a mother can take her child wherever she likes for a holiday without consent of the other parent, because when exiting Russia, there needs to be a destination and each country has its own entry requirements.

For example, here’s what you are looking at for a Schengen visa:

The minor’s birth certificate
The application form has to be signed by both parents
In cases where one parent has full custody over the child, the family court order has to be attached.
Certified copies of ID/passport of both parents.
The notarized parental authorization signed by both parents or guardians is attached if the minor is to be travelling alone.
(Source: https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/schengen-visa-application-requirements/)


.

Of course I was, its what the OP wished to find further knowledge about...
Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen

Offline Omega1982

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2018, 09:38:49 PM »
The supply of young and attractive women in Russia willing to relocate to America has decreased, and in turn many times the price has also increased.  This one is actually half Russian half Soviet (non Slavic).  In what would have seemed like a logical substitute to a scarce good, resulted in a damaged good.  There are some basic economic concepts here.

While I am the first to say that these relationships are both economically motivated and economically managed it is a mistake for you to undervalue yourself.

Here's the truth:
1) You'd be MUCH better off looking for a wife from where you live.
2) You need to start working on your self-esteem such that you understand you are worth more than you seem willing, time and again, to accept.
3) While economic factors play into the process fo finding ANY life partner the relationship between you and your future wife is largely emotional and if you don't get that bit right then everything else will fail - except in the edge case where you are able, for one reason or another, to manage a relationship that is solely economics. We know that this is not you because you are looking for a wife and that is a largely emotional relationship.

You might need some external help with both these points.


Thank you Andrew.  As always you are correct and on point. 

You bring a wealth of intelligence and experience to this forum.  Also since you live in the FSU, you can offer much more current and valuable insight than the average Joe on this forum. 

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Re: Importing fiance and child
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2018, 11:41:40 PM »
Thank you Andrew.  As always you are correct and on point. 

You bring a wealth of intelligence and experience to this forum.  Also since you live in the FSU, you can offer much more current and valuable insight than the average Joe on this forum.

Now see, I didn't realize that Andrew lives in the FSU (here I'm thinking he resides in the UK; I've got to start paying more attention). What country do you live in Andrew? 
"My soul cries out with a joyful shout that the God of my heart is great, and my spirit sings of the wondrous things that you bring to the ones who wait." - Canticle of the Turning


 

 

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