Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,

[msmoby]

No tips. And you dont need an echo to stream music or other audio. Spotify or Soundcloud will do this just fine.

Too bad that you put opposers in the paranoid corner as you know tech and know they are right.

Sorry, Markje

I was joking - and I appreciate your input

Many devices connected to the internet have 'back doors' or flaws that allow malicious access... but in this case it is an aid and the overall benefits out weight the risks

For £30, I'm not aware of a talking computer that has a sensitive mic and can interlink with other gadgets / phones / security camera systems

Having fun learning about IFTTT   (ifttt.com)

[Markje]

No tips. And you dont need an echo to stream music or other audio. Spotify or Soundcloud will do this just fine.

Too bad that you put opposers in the paranoid corner as you know tech and know they are right.

Sorry, Markje

I was joking - and I appreciate your input

Many devices connected to the internet have 'back doors' or flaws that allow malicious access... but in this case it is an aid and the overall benefits out weight the risks

For £30, I'm not aware of a talking computer that has a sensitive mic and can interlink with other gadgets / phones / security camera systems

Having fun learning about IFTTT   (ifttt.com)

You're still missing the point completely.

I don't need an audio recorder in my home thats on 24/7 and storing any and all communications with an American company.

The NSA has already proved to be -not- law-abiding agency and the CIA ain't much better.

I still remember when the movie "Enemy of the state" came to be,
Everyone was appalled at what was possible in the movie and relieved it was only fiction.

After snowden we know
A) What was possible in the movie is just a small tip of the iceberg
B) It isn't fiction.

[Gipsy]

No tips. And you dont need an echo to stream music or other audio. Spotify or Soundcloud will do this just fine.

Too bad that you put opposers in the paranoid corner as you know tech and know they are right.

Sorry, Markje

I was joking - and I appreciate your input

Many devices connected to the internet have 'back doors' or flaws that allow malicious access... but in this case it is an aid and the overall benefits out weight the risks

For £30, I'm not aware of a talking computer that has a sensitive mic and can interlink with other gadgets / phones / security camera systems

Having fun learning about IFTTT   (ifttt.com)

You're still missing the point completely.

I don't need an audio recorder in my home thats on 24/7 and storing any and all communications with an American company.

The NSA has already proved to be -not- law-abiding agency and the CIA ain't much better.

I still remember when the movie "Enemy of the state" came to be,
Everyone was appalled at what was possible in the movie and relieved it was only fiction.

After snowden we know
A) What was possible in the movie is just a small tip of the iceberg
B) It isn't fiction.

If you have a landline, or mobile (inc non smart) it is possible that your conversations can be/are being recorded

[andrewfi]

Yes, years ago, I was told by a bloke 'who knows' about what could be done at the time in terms of mobile phone interception. As a result of our conversations, if I were even a little bit more paranoid than I am, I'd not want to use a mobile phone that did not have a removable battery (and yes, if one is a high-value target, even if the battery is removed, the phone can still be used as a bug tracing location and other valuable info).

But then, I use network-connected devices all the time and I understand that there's nothing I write, or possibly say, that is truly private and that is not recorded - by somebody, somewhere. That's a problem whose implications will only grow over time and be worsened by the increasingly great divide in power between those who have the power and the masses they control. This isn't about guns (which would, in any case, be useless against a 'proper' armed foe) but about information which is much more valuable and dangerous.

[msmoby]

https://tinyurl.com/Alexa-laughter

Sadly, me Ma's devices are not displaying this paranoia

[Markje]

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/woman-says-her-amazon-device-recorded-private-conversation-sent-it-out-to-random-contact/755507974?_sp=a4e3e726-92f0-407b-a182-d54f731ed21d.1527255027937


No, this is not a fluke, one-time error etc.

Its real and how this stuff operates!. Don't ever trust these.

Not Alexa, Not google, not apple and most certainly not facebook.

The only 'error' in this case, was the recipient of the information, it should have been Amazon.

[msmoby]

Hmm, I read this on a techie news item on the net 2 days ago ...  A couple were lying in bed - talking about hardwood floors  ?  Alexa heard call and a name listed in contacts and did - leaving a voicemail as the contact was offline

It's a bit let making a bum call from your pocket or sending an email to the wrong recipient - has the potential to be embarrassing - but A LOT of hysteria as followed ..

We have 3 of 'em now and have incorporated a few 'skills' to do a few remote control home automation tricks ...

It has really helped my elderly Ma and the benefits outweigh the downsides.

Our phones give A LOT more info about us than Alexa

[Markje]

Hmm, I read this on a techie news item on the net 2 days ago ...  A couple were lying in bed - talking about hardwood floors  ?  Alexa heard call and a name listed in contacts and did - leaving a voicemail as the contact was offline

It's a bit let making a bum call from your pocket or sending an email to the wrong recipient - has the potential to be embarrassing - but A LOT of hysteria as followed ..

We have 3 of 'em now and have incorporated a few 'skills' to do a few remote control home automation tricks ...

It has really helped my elderly Ma and the benefits outweigh the downsides.

Our phones give A LOT more info about us than Alexa

Thats what amazon tells you, except the Alexa app is always listening, always recording and storing it all in Amazon's data center for later usage. 24x7 , all sounds of your home.

The KGB would be wetting themselves if they had this kind of access, and people give it up voulentary... I simply don't understand that.

Mark.

[msmoby]

Thats what amazon tells you, except the Alexa app is always listening, always recording and storing it all in Amazon's data center for later usage. 24x7 , all sounds of your home.

The KGB would be wetting themselves if they had this kind of access, and people give it up voulentary... I simply don't understand that.

Mark.

Not was I understand it ... I can see what Alexa sends to Amazon

[AvHdB]

Hmm, I read this on a techie news item on the net 2 days ago ...  A couple were lying in bed - talking about hardwood floors  ?  Alexa heard call and a name listed in contacts and did - leaving a voicemail as the contact was offline

It's a bit let making a bum call from your pocket or sending an email to the wrong recipient - has the potential to be embarrassing - but A LOT of hysteria as followed ..

We have 3 of 'em now and have incorporated a few 'skills' to do a few remote control home automation tricks ...

It has really helped my elderly Ma and the benefits outweigh the downsides.

Our phones give A LOT more info about us than Alexa

Thats what amazon tells you, except the Alexa app is always listening, always recording and storing it all in Amazon's data center for later usage. 24x7 , all sounds of your home.

The KGB would be wetting themselves if they had this kind of access, and people give it up voulentary... I simply don't understand that.

Mark.

Hurray! Some senses the inherent 'dangers' of these Apps.

The CIA/FBI and Home Land 'Security' most likely are behaving like children in the candy store with no parents or shop clerks. It is there wet dream come true.

[Markje]

Thats what amazon tells you, except the Alexa app is always listening, always recording and storing it all in Amazon's data center for later usage. 24x7 , all sounds of your home.

The KGB would be wetting themselves if they had this kind of access, and people give it up voulentary... I simply don't understand that.

Mark.

Not was I understand it ... I can see what Alexa sends to Amazon

I cannot, as I don't have an Alexa device. However, other sysadmins have, and they confirmed this to me.

Alexa is always listening, always processing and storing it all on Amazon's server.

Official reason: To improve voice recognition software and allow for better understanding of commands given in noisy circumstances.

That means 24x7 on listening, sending the audio data to amazon for processing who is storing it indefinately.

And why would they do that, you might ask? Ah glad you asked.

According to the Amazon patent filed:

One Amazon patent shows the company could instruct the Echo device to listen for designated trigger words, like a discussion of vacation destinations. It could then transcribe that conversation and use it to try to sell the device's user a related product.

So their business model is again "ads" , like noone should be surprised there.

But that doesn't mean someone else is not copying the data. Like the CIA and the NSA and other agencies.

With or without warrant.

If the data was simply not there (for instance, because you have no alexa at home) this alone makes you 10000% more secure.

I am not paranoid about my -current- government, nor the -current- government of the USA. However, since someone like Trump/Clinton stood a chance of election/was elected, I will be much, much more careful with what I do online and how it looks.

Mark.

[msmoby]

Sighs

You don't HAVE an Alexa and that is clear

EVERYTHING that Alexa responds to and sends to Amazon is viewable by the end-user

[Markje]

EVERYTHING that Alexa responds to and sends to Amazon is viewable by the end-user

Really? Have you peeked with tools like wireshark? it paints a very different picture.

[Contrarian]

Bezos owner of Amazon has a very close relationship w/ the CIA. The WA Post is known as a mouthpiece of the CIA.

CIA-Funded Washington Post Smears Indie Media For Covering DNC Fraud Lawsuit

(Google that headline)

https://www.google.com/amp/www.wnd.com/2017/06/jeff-bezos-amazon-washington-post-and-the-cia/amp/

[msmoby]

Really? Have you peeked with tools like wireshark? it paints a very different picture.

Quoting from some folks who did JUST that - analysing the traffic

it’s very safe to say, that the Echo devices do not upload recordings of the surrounding to Amazon

https://www.iot-tests.org/2017/06/careless-whisper-does-amazon-echo-send-data-in-silent-mode/

Once more, most peoples's mobile ( cell) phones give away far more to Apple /  Google about our lives

[Markje]

Really? Have you peeked with tools like wireshark? it paints a very different picture.

Quoting from some folks who did JUST that - analysing the traffic

it’s very safe to say, that the Echo devices do not upload recordings of the surrounding to Amazon

https://www.iot-tests.org/2017/06/careless-whisper-does-amazon-echo-send-data-in-silent-mode/

Once more, most peoples's mobile ( cell) phones give away far more to Apple /  Google about our lives

Ah but i did tjust that. And i'd never want one of those. Your smart tv from samsung is equally scary so i bought a sharp

[Manny]

Any tips, welcome

Here's a tip: Quit bleating about GDPR when you are volunteering your data in swathes to the US government and various corporations for free.

[msmoby]

Here's a tip: Quit bleating about GDPR when you are volunteering your data in swathes to the US government and various corporations for free.

I'm not 'bleating' about GDPR - you are

I'm quite aware my emails are also retained by our Russian ISPs - who have to keep such data for inspection - if necessary- by the FSB - who have kit to monitor at the ISP. 

[msmoby]

Ah but i did tjust that. And i'd never want one of those.

But do you agree - that the volume of traffic - or lack of - found in those tests - using wireshark - suggest Amazon Echoes are NOT recording private conversations, secretly  ?

 Your smart tv from samsung is equally scary so i bought a sharp

That naughty was easily fixed with a firmware update from Samsung - after the scandal

[Markje]

Ah but i did tjust that. And i'd never want one of those.

But do you agree - that the volume of traffic - or lack of - found in those tests - using wireshark - suggest Amazon Echoes are NOT recording private conversations, secretly  ?

 Your smart tv from samsung is equally scary so i bought a sharp

That naughty was easily fixed with a firmware update from Samsung - after the scandal

https://yro.slashdot.org/story/18/12/20/1426204/amazon-error-allowed-alexa-user-to-eavesdrop-on-another-home

The point is not, that these are one-off human errors or easily fixed or promised to be fixed by big tech companies.

the point is: I don't want spying devices in my house, not now, not ever. Even if people promise to be good, not record it all (which they do!) and to top it all off, allow someone *else* to listen to it.

I also really dislike it, that you as a fairly savvy tech guy pretend that it is even remotely ok what happens with these assistants. They're privacy invading in ways that are the NSA's version of a wet dream.

[msmoby]

I also really dislike it, that you as a fairly savvy tech guy pretend that it is even remotely ok what happens with these assistants.

This 'fairly tech savvy guy' is quite comfortable in knowing when and what the 'spy'( Google assist / amazon alexa / yandex alicia  records ....I have posted a link re the amazon device - so why is a seriously savvy linux script kiddy doubting my word ?

They're privacy invading in ways that are the NSA's version of a wet dream.

As far as I'm ware the NSA / GCHQ haven't got kit at my UK ISP ....  Can you say that for your M-i-L in Crimea or Sochi ?

Why target Telegram and not try to ban WhatsApp ?....

Now there's an interesting one

[andrewfi]

Funny thing, the 'authority' that moby referenced to support his claims about connected devices actually concluded something very different to what moby claimed he did.

It isn't the first time moby has used this tactic. He, probably correctly, assumes that most of his audience won't bother to read the linked material but will trust that moby's interpretation is is correct - after all, who would lie about something that can be verified just by reading the linked words.

In this case, the researcher concludes that he has no way to know that vendors are not collecting and storing data picked up by the microphones in these devices even when, ostensibly, they should be Inactive.

Here's what the authority moby used dishonestly actually wrote:

The multiple installed microphones are always able to listen to its surrounding and, because of the secure encryption, we cannot tell what data is transmitted to Amazon. So in the end everybody has to decide on its own, if trendy techniques and gimmicks are worth the risk of losing a part of your personal privacy.

There's a takeaway here: not only can you not trust what moby says, buy you can't even trust what moby says other people say.

[msmoby]

Andrewfi just proved - AGAIN - that he is out of his depth in yet another field ..

From the article where he lifts one line out of context:

https://www.iot-tests.org/2017/06/careless-whisper-does-amazon-echo-send-data-in-silent-mode/

But it’s very safe to say, that the Echo devices do not upload recordings of the surrounding to Amazon

They had analysed the data traffic volumes when the Amazon wake word was used and when listening ...

You'll also note no-one  has commented on our smartphones and what they reveal to Google, etc and the devices some nations insist their security service install at the ISP  to monitor internet traffic of end users..

Also, nothing as to why Whatsapp is 'ok' but not Telegram in some nations

[Off Topic Removed]

[Markje]

I also really dislike it, that you as a fairly savvy tech guy pretend that it is even remotely ok what happens with these assistants.

This 'fairly tech savvy guy' is quite comfortable in knowing when and what the 'spy'( Google assist / amazon alexa / yandex alicia  records ....I have posted a link re the amazon device - so why is a seriously savvy linux script kiddy doubting my word ?

I ain't no script kiddie ;-) I write serious stuff for the gov't , thats how I know that they spy on you also. I have more access than usual and the gov't also trusts that I don't tell about that. All I can do is warn people and those closest to me know where I work will heed the warnings.

It appears you are not a believer of what Snowden put out in terms of spying/trust of people.  I would suggest you run a wireshark session yourself and you will never trust those devices again (Same for your phone, t.v. etc. If it has sensors, it spies on you. )

Re-watch the old movie 'Enemy of the state' with will smith. What they did back then is a joke compared to the capabilities the gov't has now.

They're privacy invading in ways that are the NSA's version of a wet dream.

As far as I'm ware the NSA / GCHQ haven't got kit at my UK ISP ....  Can you say that for your M-i-L in Crimea or Sochi ?

Why target Telegram and not try to ban WhatsApp ?....

Now there's an interesting one

Mostly because Whatsapp isn't used by the Russians I know? Just my MIL uses whatsapp and only to communicate with my wife. Other than that she uses Viber, like the rest of them.

As for your gov't not having spying kit at your ISP: Better re-read your laws, its all there & out in the open, if you know where to look.

My MIL also is spyed upon, but I am not around enough to protect her & I wouldn't want to raise suspisions on her.

Mark.

[andrewfi]

Moby, you are incredible. How can you do it?
OK, truth us that you don't actually know what you are doing.

In terms of taking stuff out of context, I was quoting the conclusion of the piece, the part that the whole article builds up to.

As we also know now, from the accidental reveal of Amazon's recordings, there is stuff being recorded of which users are unaware.

Moby, go get help. It is late in your life but never too late to get help.