The World's #1 Russian, Ukrainian & Eastern European Discussion & Information Forum - RUA!

This Is the Premier Discussion Forum on the Net for Information and Discussion about Russia, Ukraine, Eastern Europe and the Former Soviet Union. Discuss Culture, Politics, Travelling, Language, International Relationships and More. Chat with Travellers, Locals, Residents and Expats. Ask and Answer Questions about Travel, Culture, Relationships, Applying for Visas, Translators, Interpreters, and More. Give Advice, Read Trip Reports, Share Experiences and Make Friends.

Author Topic: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,  (Read 1180 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline msmoby

  • BANNED
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11256
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • BANNED
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« on: January 22, 2018, 04:51:30 PM »
Having got a client internet in the middle of nowhere, they asked me if I could setup their Amazon Echo..

I had just proven that I could find an obscure piece of music using Odnoklassniki.ru and this device searched Prime Music  and found it ... without the need of a keyboard...

My elderly Ma likes to listen to audio books - which she gets from the library - but cannot get the hang off downloading and playing the content - preferring CDs

She has also taken to forgetting to hang up a land line call and not charging her mobile ( cell ) phone !

Could one of these audio 'robots' help ?

My goodness, YES

I got her an Amazon Echo Show and now we can 'drop in' on her and call her and the device answers - even if she doesn't !

She can ask the device to call us or send a message

It plays her audio books - pauses, plays music, radio and movies from my Prime video account

Tonight, it was telling her jokes and translating Russian..

Think I might take one to SC and set up a UK VPN  ( shh.. pls do not tell VVP !) and she can play with it ..

Anybody else got one ? My sis' things they are a spy in the house ...
I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline Manny

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18473
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2018, 01:03:21 PM »
Anybody else got one ? My sis' thinks they are a spy in the house ...

Your sister is right.

Convenient perhaps, but also capable of listening to any and all conversation and transmitting it anywhere. And presumably hackable.

Google cannot be trusted with data - we know that already. Google is a data snoop - we know that already.

No thanks.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<<

Let's see how this post ages:

Trump will 100% be the President on Jan 20. History is about to be made and the World gets to see how real Americans deal with corruption.

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7116
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2018, 05:40:05 PM »
Yes. An always-on audio device that sends all audio to a company would be a spy.

I will have none of them thanks
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria


Offline Contrarian

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9522
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Dating
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2018, 11:15:45 PM »
Yes. An always-on audio device that sends all audio to a company would be a spy.

I will have none of them thanks

 :thumbsup:

Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. P. J. O'Rourke

Online Lord of the Dance

  • Supporting Hero Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 910
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: None Yet
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2018, 12:27:12 AM »
I hate to sound paranoid, but I've got to agree that having a lot of stuff like that around is just too potentially compromising. And what I really don't get are the people who wire up their entire house to be remote-control. Why does one need to manipulate lights, appliances, et al. from a cell phone (or other network device)? Seems like very little benefit for a huge risk of things going wrong.

Here's a sorta-related example. I recently heard a story of one of those sweeper robots (like a Roomba or something?) making a terrible mess of a guy's house. Apparently you set the robot to clean your floors at night (ostensibly so you're out of the way and safely in bed when the sweeper is doing its thing), but in this case, the guy had a dog. The story goes that the dog left a gift on the kitchen floor in the early night, then the robot sweeper started up and ran through it, spreading the dog's shit throughout the kitchen and living room. You can imagine the poor chap's shock when he came out of his bedroom the next morning... and can you fathom the clean-up effort? I'd rather run my old-fashioned manual sweeper and avoid catastrophe.
"My soul cries out with a joyful shout that the God of my heart is great, and my spirit sings of the wondrous things that you bring to the ones who wait." - Canticle of the Turning

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7116
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2018, 01:55:12 AM »
Anybody else got one ? My sis' thinks they are a spy in the house ...

Your sister is right.

Convenient perhaps, but also capable of listening to any and all conversation and transmitting it anywhere. And presumably hackable.

Google cannot be trusted with data - we know that already. Google is a data snoop - we know that already.

No thanks.

They aren't only capable, they are storing it permanently with google/amazon. Those companies have tons and tons of storage and good human speech has a maximum of 64kb/s (less if compressed with mp3 or newer methods.).

Google already admitted that they store this data indefinately and got in to hot waters in Germany over privacy laws.
They got away because users 'consented' to being recorded otherwise the device would not function.

However, since its a company and not a government, they don't need a wiretap-warrant or anything , they can just hit the record-button when its turned on in your home and they're up.

Mark.
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Offline msmoby

  • BANNED
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11256
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • BANNED
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2018, 03:43:43 AM »
Thank for the replies

The option to purchase is turned off and if Amazon want to figure 'my' taste in Music / Vids - as she is using MY Prime account - they are welcome

They already hold debit / credit cards data, contact phone numbers - taken from the Google ones that match the Amazon ones..

If they want to listen to her sleeping - they are welcome ! 

What is the difference in Google knowing what we search for when we type - as opposed to Amazon knowing she asked the time yesterday ?

Aren't some of these replies someone paranoid ?



The device is proving a god send but she wants to say a different name to 'wake up' the device (the options are only Alexa, Echo, Computer ( one more I forget ) .....

Come on, Amazon - let the owner choose the awake word !

I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline Ste

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5029
  • Country: ie
  • Gender: Male
  • Beware of Muslamic Rayguns
  • Spouses Country: The Planet Zanussi
  • Status: Committed
  • Trips: 5-10
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2018, 11:35:49 AM »
Stazi. Not enough spies to spy on people because of information overload. Google et al will need more and more cpu cycles to process Alexa etc overliad, of which 99% will be meaningless shit.

Ive nowt to hide, ive been SC’d, DV’d and PV’d in the past, they already know me. Mind you they never knew i was a member of CPGB and CND. Even info in front of peoples noses gets missed...


.
O pointy birds, o pointy pointy, Anoint my head, anointy-nointy.

Online andrewfi

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19246
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Articles About Almost Anything!
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2018, 12:10:29 PM »
Those with something to hide will keep clear of these automated spies. But in truth, we all carry around our own personal bugging system. The microphone on our phones can be turned on and monitored by those interested in doing so. US 3 letter agencies (and other state actors, I'm sure) can do the same. The same organisations can set up spoof  mobile cells to intercept any, or all, mobile traffic passing through.

We are monitored, or can be, we are unaware of it. These trinkets are just another manifestation of pervade monitoring. Today it is commercial interests, tomorrow something less benign.

As Ste notes, volume of data is our best protection - fir the time being. As automated data analysis improves no amount of volume will keep us safe.

Worse yet, that which is OK today might be criminalised tomorrow as we are seeing right now.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Manny

  • Moderator
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18473
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2018, 01:04:47 PM »
As Ste notes, volume of data is our best protection - for the time being.

The government can already "sniff" for keywords and do so with phone conversations already. This is no different. Later will come the marketing based on what you talked about last night with a pal in earshot of it. Governments will already have a backdoor into it.

Privacy isn't about "having something to hide" or not.

Datanapping is big business.

What happens when these tools are eventually utilised for political purposes? Or sold to the highest bidder? Used for voting predictions and the content to dictate what type of propaganda you are fed? Peoples employers being able to screen conversations at home as they now do with social media posts? It'll come........

Governments, Google, Amazon, Apple, et al. All as bad as each other and all piss in the same pot.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<<

Let's see how this post ages:

Trump will 100% be the President on Jan 20. History is about to be made and the World gets to see how real Americans deal with corruption.

Offline Contrarian

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9522
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Dating
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2018, 02:16:51 PM »
I just received the Feb 2018 National Geographic and the cover article is: The New Big Brother.

The takeaway from the movie Snowden was that the US govt spied far more on US citizens than others.
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. P. J. O'Rourke

Offline Jerash

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 682
  • Country: ru
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Dating
  • Trips: Resident
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2018, 03:10:38 PM »
I just received the Feb 2018 National Geographic and the cover article is: The New Big Brother.

The takeaway from the movie Snowden was that the US govt spied far more on US citizens than others.

Trump wants to arrest Snowden.  Doesn't it follow that Snowden is fake news?  :popcorn:

Offline dcguyusa

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1555
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Spouses Country: North America, South America, Europe, Asia
  • Status: Just Looking
  • Trips: None Yet
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2018, 05:46:35 PM »
Quote
Datanapping is big business.

Also Data mining.  It is used where I work to detect patterns from the information provided by the US public.  It is also used to ferret out fraud.   :whist11:
An uninformed opponent is a dangerous opponent.

"Y'all be makin shit up" ~ Markeith Loyd

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7116
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2018, 02:05:55 AM »

Aren't some of these replies someone paranoid ?

The problem is that some of the computers decide for you what you have to hide.

There are already sad tales out there.
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Offline msmoby

  • BANNED
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11256
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • BANNED
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline Ste

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5029
  • Country: ie
  • Gender: Male
  • Beware of Muslamic Rayguns
  • Spouses Country: The Planet Zanussi
  • Status: Committed
  • Trips: 5-10
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2018, 03:23:16 AM »
This alludes to the telescreens in everyones flat in Orwell’s Nineteen Eighty Four, where big brothet could watch you.

Of couse, only a tiny percentage could be watched at any one time, but fact was at anyone time you could be and not know it.

That’s what kept you in check.


.
O pointy birds, o pointy pointy, Anoint my head, anointy-nointy.

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7116
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2018, 07:15:02 AM »
https://m.slashdot.org/story/336657

For those who think they have nothing to hide.

OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Online andrewfi

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19246
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Articles About Almost Anything!
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2018, 07:47:18 AM »
https://m.slashdot.org/story/336657

For those who think they have nothing to hide.

I have long said that the difference between 'right' and 'wrong' is only the force that has the power to say so. On that basis, we all have something to hide and I think that our current lack of privacy is a terrible thing. There can not be a democracy when we do not have the privacy to think as we think or speak with whom we wish about what we think.

The Turkish example is, today, an outlier but it will become the norm.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Contrarian

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9522
  • Country: us
  • Gender: Male
  • Status: Dating
  • Trips: 1-5
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2018, 10:55:04 PM »
https://m.slashdot.org/story/336657

For those who think they have nothing to hide.

I have long said that the difference between 'right' and 'wrong' is only the force that has the power to say so. On that basis, we all have something to hide and I think that our current lack of privacy is a terrible thing. There can not be a democracy when we do not have the privacy to think as we think or speak with whom we wish about what we think.

The Turkish example is, today, an outlier but it will become the norm.

Sad but likely true. Many Americans think they’re free but if a demonic woman like Hillary ever gets in office she will use the FBI and other forces to eliminate her enemies which are in the millions.
Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. P. J. O'Rourke

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7116
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2018, 01:37:30 AM »
Its worse than that, without privacy , you are likely to censor yourself in order to avoid being arrested (even by accident) or worse.

Therefore, there can be no meaningful discussion about "2 sides of the coin" and thus also no free will.
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Online andrewfi

  • Supporting Member
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 19246
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
    • Articles About Almost Anything!
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2018, 02:10:11 AM »
Its worse than that, without privacy , you are likely to censor yourself in order to avoid being arrested (even by accident) or worse.

Therefore, there can be no meaningful discussion about "2 sides of the coin" and thus also no free will.

That's a thing that is visibly happening in the USA. Not saying nowhere else, but it is quite visible over there!
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7116
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Offline msmoby

  • BANNED
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11256
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • BANNED
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2018, 03:41:46 AM »
Well, I see that even this innocuous thread got 'hi-jacked' by the tin-foil - they're out to get you brigade ;)

Nearly 3 months on and the upstairs Echo show will soon be joined by a downstairs Echo - minus video

No more trips to the Library for CDs - as it reads Ma audio books and I'm looking for a watch that contains a mic that will join the network - and allow her to be safe in the garden


Anyone remember Joe90  talking to his watch ?


Any tips, welcome





I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline msmoby

  • BANNED
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 11256
  • Country: gb
  • Gender: Male
  • BANNED
  • Spouses Country: Russia
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2018, 07:07:30 AM »
A Russian friend sent me this hilarious video of Alyisa - the Yandex A.I.  - two smart phones getting in a loop ;)

I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Online Markje

  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7116
  • Country: nl
  • Gender: Male
  • MCMLXXIV
    • Mark's unix pages
  • Spouses Country: Crimea
  • Status: Married
  • Trips: 20+
Re: Amazon Echoes, Google assistants, etc.,
« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2018, 09:08:01 AM »
Well, I see that even this innocuous thread got 'hi-jacked' by the tin-foil - they're out to get you brigade ;)

Nearly 3 months on and the upstairs Echo show will soon be joined by a downstairs Echo - minus video

No more trips to the Library for CDs - as it reads Ma audio books and I'm looking for a watch that contains a mic that will join the network - and allow her to be safe in the garden


Anyone remember Joe90  talking to his watch ?


Any tips, welcome

No tips. And you dont need an echo to stream music or other audio. Spotify or Soundcloud will do this just fine.

Too bad that you put opposers in the paranoid corner as you know tech and know they are right.
OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria