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Author Topic: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?  (Read 1020 times)

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Online andrewfi

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So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« on: September 21, 2017, 03:13:19 PM »
Just thought I'd ask.

I have been kicking around the idea of buying into some crypto for a while. The actions of the Chinese government have been interesting because I thought that it might give the market a real pasting, but it hasn't. The thing is kinda bobbling along as though risk from that source is priced in but the next push back up hasn't yet happened.

Spent a little money a few days ago and seeing a small increase but the market does seem flat at the moment.

So, anyone else out there taking a punt? OK I don't really see it as a gamble but there is still a downside risk and it might be a gamble on which one can lose a chunk of money. I confess I REALLY wish I'd pulled the trigger a few months ago when the idea first started to stir. I bottled out in May and could've doubled my money if I hadn't!
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Offline Manny

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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2017, 02:30:51 AM »
We are talking Bitcoin here?

As with many things, the rule is by the time every man and his dog is buying in, it's the time to sell.

I've never taken the trouble to understand it too deeply. But I'm interested to read the opinions of those who have.
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Online andrewfi

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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2017, 02:50:14 AM »
Not just Bitcoin, although that is what I have been buying.

Ethereum and Litecoin are earlier along their growth path and so may have early explosive growth to come that we have already seen with BRC.

As to the piling in thing, well, yes and no. You see there's a limit on the total possible number of Bitcoins, although, of course, one is usually dealing with sub-coin transactions when used for purchases or even when buying to hold.
This means that the price will tend to rise as more people buy in. Right now institutional investors are starting to get involved and that's going to put a lot of upward pressure on prices because they will be big buyers in a small market. That's exactly why the institutions (pension funds and the like) are buying, it is a source of a higher rate of return than pretty much any other investment they could make.

Also, of course, we are very, very, far from every man and his dog buying in! But at that point, given that Bitcoin is not a 'thing' but is, a medium of exchange with investment opportunities (similar to gold) once the network effect takes hold then whilst prices might plateau it is unlikely that prices will collapse because the network will tend to prevent it.

Personally, I am buying to hold. I was going to buy a lump sum but have decided to go for a price averaging strategy and am buying a small amount every few days, basically if I see a dip at the time I am in a place to buy I am buying a small amount.
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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2017, 03:51:07 AM »
I sure as hell wish I'd bought bitcoin when it was still $80 per coin, or even 500 per coin.

It sits over 3000 now.

I know lots of IT-guys already got their pension secured because of BTC trading.
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Online andrewfi

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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2017, 05:24:23 AM »
I sure as hell wish I'd bought bitcoin when it was still $80 per coin, or even 500 per coin.

It sits over 3000 now.

I know lots of IT-guys already got their pension secured because of BTC trading.

Tell me about it. If only I'd put even a little bit of fun money into it when I first knew about it and had stopped being sceptical. That said, it seems to me that, absent government intervention on a huge scale, that the upside is huge over the next few years, much bigger upside than downside in money terms. 

Conceptually I am with the program but now I am trying to find my way to the best/most cost effective way to proceed. At the moment I know I am overpaying and that there must be better ways of doing it than I am currently doing. Longer term it will not matter but at the moment the spread is against me.
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Offline Manny

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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2017, 10:16:26 AM »
Is there space in the market for more than one? Or will it become like a Betamax/VHS thing?

Is one able to turn them into ready cash immediately?

I sure as hell wish I'd bought bitcoin when it was still $80 per coin, or even 500 per coin.

It sits over 3000 now.

I know lots of IT-guys already got their pension secured because of BTC trading.


I read about a bloke the other day who dobbed something like £500 in Bitcoin early and recently withdrew and just bought a big house in Essex with it. I dont recall where I read it, maybe Twitter, and it was part of a longer conversation. But with what you posted it sounds plausible.
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Online andrewfi

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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2017, 11:59:25 AM »
People who got in early and stayed can now be very wealthy.

There are differences between the currencies that optimize them for different purposes. All, as far as I am aware, have a hard limit on the number of coins that can be created. Assuming that trading volume increases it is thus axiomatic that the value of each coin will rise.

Turning the market leaders into cash is instant, very liquid. That's a major benefit of them.
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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2017, 01:26:59 PM »
Is there space in the market for more than one? Or will it become like a Betamax/VHS thing?
I think Bitcoin and Ethereum are in there for the long run.

Bitcoin : Most well-known currency.
Ethereum: 2nd well known & Because bitcoin has a black-market / illegal trading & "banking" (mt. Gox) scandals attached to it.

The others i suspect to fade away as 'obscure' and nobody uses it.
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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2017, 10:46:37 AM »
It has taken a week but all my buys are now in profit. Only a little, but still, even if I were to sell right now, even allowing for costs, I'd be much, much, better off than leaving the money in the bank.

Let's hope that we're off to the races. :)
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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2017, 02:23:08 AM »
A few sites I like to use:

https://coinmarketcap.com/

coinwarz.com

Most crypto-coins have a Reddit.com site, e.g. reddit.com/r/monero for the Monero coin.  A good way to get the feel of a community.
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Online andrewfi

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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2017, 03:15:55 AM »
A few sites I like to use:

https://coinmarketcap.com/

coinwarz.com

Most crypto-coins have a Reddit.com site, e.g. reddit.com/r/monero for the Monero coin.  A good way to get the feel of a community.

Thanks, I am still feeling my way around. Feel confident that prices will rise and so wanted to get in. Right now it feels like moving to a new country: not too hard to do but one tends to pay too much for everything for a while.
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Offline Texan77

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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2017, 05:08:52 PM »


https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/28/south-korea-bans-all-new-cryptocurrency-sales.html

There are numerous investor advisor services that are trying to get people into crypto currency. Just look in any search engine and type "crypto currencies trading services" and you will see many of them.  Their are nearly 400 different kinds crypto currencies. Almost all of them are rising in value fast. There are several types of risk to these currencies but the biggest I think is governments do not like them. It would let to much illegal activity and tax evasion occur. They are just waiting for the first terrorist attacked or other major excuse that was paid for in these currencies before shutting them down. Above is an article where South Korea is limiting there use. China has already limited there use in certain types of fund raising. USA also considering laws against them. So far non of these laws will kill the crypto currency market but the governments are establishing the right to regulate them and limit what can be paid with them.

Below is an ad I found trying to get investor to trade in these currencies.


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Online andrewfi

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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2017, 03:37:12 AM »
Texan77, like many other people I used to think that crypto currencies were untraceable and that they could easily be used for tax evasion. In truth that simply is not the case. Trackability is built into these things because that's the very nature of the blockchain system.

The systems to implement tracking for taxation and other purposes are only now being formed but the necessary structure already exists.

It is pretty certain that when governments get on board, as some are starting to do, that we will see increases in values for the leading currency brands. We will also see national crypt currencies as well. As a neophyte though I do not see the current rash of 'new' currencies going anywhere, there's simply no benefit. Most are scams and opportunistic attempts to turn electricity into cash by folks whose Bitcoin rigs are no longer up to the task of creating market leading currencies at a high enough ROI. The current market leaders might fall by the wayside but from an economic and marketing perspective I can't see the current rash of money extraction systems being hyped up as being long term viable. They'll go when mugs stop putting money into them because they seem 'cheap'.

Overall, crypto plays into the medium term objective of most major governments to make cash irrelevant and, even if crypto is inconvenient to trace, it is much easier than cash!
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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2017, 04:56:12 AM »
I don't think I would buy any Crypto currency because any thing could happen! I always think of the worst situation in life , for example some big meteor stick wipes out communications , that is the net down for maybe years!! So all will be gone..bricks and mortar are the only best investment , but even that is not so safe in the event of a global crisis (earthquake, meteor strike WW3)

I think just buying Gold nuggets is the best option and keep them well hidden "Just in Case"

 :)
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Online andrewfi

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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2017, 06:01:45 AM »
If the meteor comes down and wipes out all of modern life then I don't think wandering around with a lump of gold will help. This is not about the end times. :)

If such a catastrophe as you suggest happens I will have other worries than the possibility that I might have lost some wealth. Right now I am making a profit from buying and holding Bitcoin, just Bitcoin and nothing else. I may choose to do some trading but I am busy working on other stuff right now. My wealth, on paper at least, is increasing. If I were holding gold it wouldn't, not at the moment.

If my understanding of cryptocurrencies is correct and my understanding of the economics is correct then it is reasonable to expect that the value of Bitcoin, and a few others, will rise significantly as the volume of trade conducted using these currencies increases. That's just the same as holding other currency types except that the trade volume of crypto is likely to increase much faster than other national currencies. That makes buying and holding an effective strategy for the time being.

I don't know about you but I do not look for the worst in life and, in truth, neither do you. After all, you got married. If you expected the worst to happen then and the marriage will end then you'd not have gotten married. You did so for present benefit and expectations of future benefit. Same, same, with buying and holding a good in expectation of increased relative value in the future. :)

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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2017, 07:13:42 AM »
If the meteor comes down and wipes out all of modern life then I don't think wandering around with a lump of gold will help. This is not about the end times. :)

If such a catastrophe as you suggest happens I will have other worries than the possibility that I might have lost some wealth. Right now I am making a profit from buying and holding Bitcoin, just Bitcoin and nothing else. I may choose to do some trading but I am busy working on other stuff right now. My wealth, on paper at least, is increasing. If I were holding gold it wouldn't, not at the moment.

If my understanding of cryptocurrencies is correct and my understanding of the economics is correct then it is reasonable to expect that the value of Bitcoin, and a few others, will rise significantly as the volume of trade conducted using these currencies increases. That's just the same as holding other currency types except that the trade volume of crypto is likely to increase much faster than other national currencies. That makes buying and holding an effective strategy for the time being.

I don't know about you but I do not look for the worst in life and, in truth, neither do you. After all, you got married. If you expected the worst to happen then and the marriage will end then you'd not have gotten married. You did so for present benefit and expectations of future benefit. Same, same, with buying and holding a good in expectation of increased relative value in the future. :)

I never look for the worst in life..only the best for myself wife and kids :) But I always have a little thought about "what if" I don't mean what if any thing happens with myself or what I'm doing, I mean things out of my control (Earth quake, Nuke strike :) )I like to be in control.. it was only about 75 years ago and quiet a few people in Europe lost everything  thanks to our friend Adolf ..
I don't even trust being in the dating business "just in case" some nutter decides to take down the whole of the net for a long time, thats on the books..

I already have two automatic machine guns under the bed , my wife is fully trained in there use also, well who knows what will happen in Russia over the next 20 years... :chuckle:

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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2017, 11:13:57 AM »
Texan77, like many other people I used to think that crypto currencies were untraceable and that they could easily be used for tax evasion. In truth that simply is not the case. Trackability is built into these things because that's the very nature of the blockchain system.

The systems to implement tracking for taxation and other purposes are only now being formed but the necessary structure already exists.

It is pretty certain that when governments get on board, as some are starting to do, that we will see increases in values for the leading currency brands. We will also see national crypt currencies as well. As a neophyte though I do not see the current rash of 'new' currencies going anywhere, there's simply no benefit. Most are scams and opportunistic attempts to turn electricity into cash by folks whose Bitcoin rigs are no longer up to the task of creating market leading currencies at a high enough ROI. The current market leaders might fall by the wayside but from an economic and marketing perspective I can't see the current rash of money extraction systems being hyped up as being long term viable. They'll go when mugs stop putting money into them because they seem 'cheap'.

Overall, crypto plays into the medium term objective of most major governments to make cash irrelevant and, even if crypto is inconvenient to trace, it is much easier than cash!

There are a few crypto-coins that are focused on privacy.

One of them, endorsed by the most paranoid, security-conscious computer programmer I know, is "Monero" symbol XMR . https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/monero/  By design it is supposed to be impossible to determine how many coins are in a particular wallet / address, thus even if you know the person's blockchain address you can't tell what amount of coins that address has.  This is different from Bitcoin, where knowing the address allows you to easily query the contents.
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Online andrewfi

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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #17 on: October 08, 2017, 05:53:07 AM »
Thanks for that info. I guess that if I am correct in thinking that crypto will play into the hands of those interested in the demise of cash then privacy oriented coins will go the way of the dodo.
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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2017, 03:16:20 PM »
Thanks for that info. I guess that if I am correct in thinking that crypto will play into the hands of those interested in the demise of cash then privacy oriented coins will go the way of the dodo.

I thought you might find this tweet with chart to be interesting.

https://twitter.com/Cryptomeo/status/919285743389835264

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Online andrewfi

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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2017, 04:38:59 PM »
The chart's axes are deceiving. There have been similar trajectories before now. The referred to post is looking at how long it took to move from each $1000 level to the next. It'd be surprised if the time taken to do so didn't decrease because each 1000 is a smaller proportion of all the previous increases. But, yes rate of increase has picked up a lot. For context, take a look at the trajectory followed by other disruptive technologies. We are just about to see Bitcoin move from early adopters to early mass market.



Right now though there's some interesting things happening that are increasing the spendability of Bitcoin and that's the real driver. We have innovations ranging from Bitcoin backed payment cards usable wherever Visa and Mastercard work. We have Bitcoin investment funds,. We have increasing numbers of vendors accepting Bitcoin payments. We have banks buying into Bitcoin.

Ultimately I think that we will see a large volume of trade conducted using Bitcoin and it is that volume of trade that will settle the ultimate price of a Bitcoin (or successor currency). The infrastructure for that trade volume is being built out right now.

I think that we have probably reached a point where monstrous gains of many hundreds, or even thousands, of percent are gone but a further doubling or so in the next year or so would not leave me unhappy. I also expect prices to fall in the very near future but I'd be surprised if I were to make a loss on purchases made to this point.
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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2017, 05:33:36 PM »
The chart's axes are deceiving. There have been similar trajectories before now. The referred to post is looking at how long it took to move from each $1000 level to the next. It'd be surprised if the time taken to do so didn't decrease because each 1000 is a smaller proportion of all the previous increases. But, yes rate of increase has picked up a lot. For context, take a look at the trajectory followed by other disruptive technologies. We are just about to see Bitcoin move from early adopters to early mass market.



Right now though there's some interesting things happening that are increasing the spendability of Bitcoin and that's the real driver. We have innovations ranging from Bitcoin backed payment cards usable wherever Visa and Mastercard work. We have Bitcoin investment funds,. We have increasing numbers of vendors accepting Bitcoin payments. We have banks buying into Bitcoin.

Ultimately I think that we will see a large volume of trade conducted using Bitcoin and it is that volume of trade that will settle the ultimate price of a Bitcoin (or successor currency). The infrastructure for that trade volume is being built out right now.

I think that we have probably reached a point where monstrous gains of many hundreds, or even thousands, of percent are gone but a further doubling or so in the next year or so would not leave me unhappy. I also expect prices to fall in the very near future but I'd be surprised if I were to make a loss on purchases made to this point.

I had originally wanted to post a tweet by Jullian Assange but lost it. He stated that due to "the empire" (my words for the us govt. and co) he had to invest in BitCoin and that they made an increase of 50,000 %!

Murai department stores in Japan now accept bitcoin.
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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2017, 06:38:21 PM »
Something to remember: the price of a Bitcoin is fairly unimportant for those using it for purchase of goods and services. For example, my first purchase using Bitcoin was a year or so ago. I used it because the vendor offered a discount for using Bitcoin.

I purchased the fraction of a Coin and transferred it to the vendors account. The vendor was paid very fast, IIRC it takes about 10 minutes for a transaction to be spread across the network and, probably, the vendor went to his preferred currency within seconds of receiving notification.

I got a discount in excess of my conversion fees, the vendor saved on normal credit card and bank fees and we were all happy.

Use as an intermediate currency is an attraction for those wishing to avoid use of the dollar and/or conventional banking. Russia and China are investigating the options and Japan already recognises Bitcoin as currency. Individuals and businesses can be well served by crypto as well. Blockchain systems have other uses as well. The legitimisation of one will probably stimulate the legitimisation of the other.
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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2017, 12:56:32 PM »
Vladimir Putin Just Revealed Russia’s Plans for Cryptocurrencies

https://futurism.com/vladimir-putin-just-revealed-russias-plans-for-cryptocurrencies/
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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2017, 01:00:50 PM »
Making it Easy to Invest in Cryptos - Russian Entrepreneur Unveils 'Tokenbox'

http://russia-insider.com/en/making-it-easy-invest-cryptos-russian-entrepreneur-unveils-tokenbox/ri21382
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Re: So, Who Is Buying Into Crypto?
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2017, 04:27:02 PM »
Is all going in an interesting direction.
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