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Author Topic: North Korea.  (Read 20616 times)

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Offline Manny

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North Korea.
« on: April 21, 2017, 02:40:06 AM »
So I thought I'd open the North Korea topic.

As we know, Trump has now started threatening North Korea, who have warned him not to bother or they will retaliate to any attack or attempted US invasion.

Russia and China are rapidly moving troops and equipment to their respective borders with NK, ostensibly to stem any refugee crisis that may occur if there is some kind of war there.

Personally, I think Trump has foolishly bitten off more than he can chew here. This is more aggression and warmongering from the US. NK is not his business and is in China's sphere of influence (sounds like Ukraine and Russia again, no?). I can't see China letting much happen on their doorstep, and Russia has voiced concerns about nuclear clouds that would take 2 hours to reach Vladivostok.

Trump cannot be permitted to continue the worldwide terrorism that his predecessors started. The man has bombed two countries in a fortnight and is now threatening a third. But NK wouldn't be like bombing some blokes on camels as usual. This conflict he seeks has the potential to unravel him faster than anything at home if North Korea's neighbours are forced to intervene.

Thoughts?
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<<

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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2017, 02:48:10 AM »
I think North Korea, albeit under extreme leadership, should be left alone for now. However, they have proven capable of being a nuclear power, which means that no aggressive military strike will succeed without a very high cost in human life. Better seek to dispose of current administration through spies, assassination and other means.

I had a small hope that Kim-Jung Un would be better than his father, but alas... another mad dictator at the helm.
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Online andrewfi

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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2017, 03:40:28 AM »
Kim Jong Un is playing a limited hand brilliantly. Right now we see just how necessary Korea's nuclear weapon program is as a deterrent to US aggression.

There's a reason those aircraft carriers are not where the US said they'd be.
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Offline Steamer

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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2017, 06:28:13 AM »
I think Kim Jong Un has a Napoleon complex and should be very careful how he plays this. If he keeps poking the US in the eye Trump may rename N Kor as "The Great Smoking Ditch".
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Online andrewfi

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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2017, 06:40:09 AM »
I think Kim Jong Un has a Napoleon complex and should be very careful how he plays this. If he keeps poking the US in the eye Trump may rename N Kor as "The Great Smoking Ditch".

See, that's where you and millions of others have not understood why North Korea has a nuclear weapons program or why it is that the US has actually done nothing.

A nuclear weapons program is the only defence against US silliness because it is the only thing that can actually impact the US. The apparent bellicosity that you have been programed to see by your thought leaders is, in truth, the leader of a tiny, poor, but independent nation doing all it can to tell the aggressor, the United States, to stop its threats and attacks.

Also, when you talk in such silly, unthought, pre-programmed, terms you are neglecting to understand that North Korea is bordered to the north by both China and Russia and just how well do YOU think that a nuclear attack upon North Korea would go down with those two?

Truth time here: you and millions of other poor USAians have been programmed to think that rational people act irrationally. As such you are willing to accept irrationality on the part of your own leadership. Your leadership may well lack skills, may well lack understanding of geopolitical realities, may have counter intuitive world views and hidden motivations and drivers but there is one thing that they are not: they are not irrational. Your leadership is no more irrational than Assad in Syria, Putin in Russia, Xi in China or Kim in Korea.
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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2017, 07:23:46 AM »
This is why the Ukraine needs nuclear weapons to protect against Russia silliness.

Online andrewfi

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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2017, 07:38:18 AM »
This is why the Ukraine needs nuclear weapons to protect against Russia silliness.


Nice to see you posting as insightfully as ever!
I don't think you noticed the differences between Ukraine and Korea. The USA may have been behind the coup in Ukraine and Korea wants none of that. Russia is not known for being similar to the USA in foreign policy terms.

Texan77, try thinking before trying to appear smart.
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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2017, 07:49:30 AM »
This is why Ukraine needs nuclear weapons to protect against Russia silliness.

Fixed that for you. And true.
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Offline msmoby

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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2017, 08:50:47 AM »


Thoughts?

1/ It is amusing to read of your surprise at Trump's waking up to reality

2/ N.Korea has even exceedingly pee'd off China and China's concern isn't for the Koreans living under the wack job dictator  .... it's the thought of having a re-united Korea that would be grateful to the US. Same applies to Russia.

3/ Normal N.Korean behaviour is to pipe up lots - seem threatening - then gets lots of money to pipe down.....   How long can such blackmail continue ?



I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline Steamer

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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2017, 09:15:37 AM »
See, that's where you and millions of others have not understood why North Korea has a nuclear weapons program or why it is that the US has actually done nothing.

I understand that fine. I don't understand how some tin pot dictator can threaten a nuclear attack (repeatedly), take pot shots with his missiles while promising to hit Hawaii and San Fran yet the US is supposed to laugh it off? No.

I'm also against a nuclear FIRST strike (pollution concerns etc.) but in the 2nd strike Ok. Actually dropping a MOAB on Un's head  taking HIM out would be the best for both of our countries.
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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2017, 09:56:23 AM »
See, that's where you and millions of others have not understood why North Korea has a nuclear weapons program or why it is that the US has actually done nothing.

I understand that fine. I don't understand how some tin pot dictator can threaten a nuclear attack (repeatedly), take pot shots with his missiles while promising to hit Hawaii and San Fran yet the US is supposed to laugh it off? No.

I'm also against a nuclear FIRST strike (pollution concerns etc.) but in the 2nd strike Ok. Actually dropping a MOAB on Un's head  taking HIM out would be the best for both of our countries.

I agree 100% with your points.  :thumbsup: tiphat
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Online B.B.

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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2017, 10:00:31 AM »
As we know, Trump has now started threatening North Korea, who have warned him not to bother or they will retaliate to any attack or attempted US invasion.

Trump has no plans - and no plans to make plans - to invade NoKoLand. 

Russia and China are rapidly moving troops and equipment to their respective borders with NK, ostensibly to stem any refugee crisis that may occur if there is some kind of war there. 

Fine.  Then they won't be available to cause trouble elsewhere.

Personally, I think Trump has foolishly bitten off more than he can chew here.

And you're wrong.  Read on.

This is more aggression and warmongering from the US.

If the NoKos could mind their own business, we'd go back to not giving a shit about them. 

Trump cannot be permitted to continue the worldwide terrorism that his predecessors started.

Oh, look!  Someone's agenda is showing!

The man has bombed two countries in a fortnight and is now threatening a third.

What?  He gave Assad a love tap to remind him to stay in his own lane and not use chemical weapons - chemical weapons that he wasn't supposed to HAVE anymore - and he gave the Russians an hour to clear out of the way before he did it.  Assad tested boundaries, Trump let him know to get back over the line, and he didn't start a globalist war in the M/E to do it.

The ragheads in Afghanistan brought this shit on themselves.  Do you think George W. Bush could have found Afghanistan on a map on September 10, 2001?  You want to sponsor terrorist organizations, you can expect "death from above". 

In Korea, he sent Pence tot he DMZ and had the Carl Vinson do a drive-by.  He correctly signaled to China that the NoKos are their problem, and they need to manage it appropriately.

Nothing to see here, move along.

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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2017, 12:21:09 PM »
North Korea gained Nukes thanks to Bill Clinton.  :coffeeread:

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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2017, 05:05:00 PM »
What if..... NK has a nuke and they can shoot it with reasonable accuracy between 300-400 km far (200 miles)

Suppose war breaks out between USA and NK. Whats stopping them from launching a nuke against an aircraft carrier group. As I understand it, Satellite systems can guide such a rocket so the blast-radius will take out the carrier group, even if it isn't a perfect hit.

Mark.
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Offline Steamer

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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2017, 05:22:15 PM »
What if..... NK has a nuke and they can shoot it with reasonable accuracy between 300-400 km far (200 miles)

Suppose war breaks out between USA and NK. Whats stopping them from launching a nuke against an aircraft carrier group. As I understand it, Satellite systems can guide such a rocket so the blast-radius will take out the carrier group, even if it isn't a perfect hit.

Mark.

That's why the US has been moving anti missile systems to S Kor and the Chinese are having fits about it.
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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2017, 07:08:15 PM »
What if..... NK has a nuke and they can shoot it with reasonable accuracy between 300-400 km far (200 miles)

Suppose war breaks out between USA and NK. Whats stopping them from launching a nuke against an aircraft carrier group. As I understand it, Satellite systems can guide such a rocket so the blast-radius will take out the carrier group, even if it isn't a perfect hit.

Mark.

That's why the US has been moving anti missile systems to S Kor and the Chinese are having fits about it.

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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2017, 07:10:38 PM »
After the Chinese president and president Trump had their meeting, Trump has changed his position about China.
I think Trump understands how to negotiate a deal with China to take care of the North Korea problem.

Trump: China will solve North Korea problem 'if they want to'

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/04/21/trump-china-north-korea-tweet-237450
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

Offline Manny

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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2017, 04:50:20 AM »
Some interesting - if far-fetched sounding - content here suggesting Japan may be behind what Trump is doing: http://journal-neo.org/2017/04/22/insanity-and-the-art-of-trump-s-deal/

Quote
The witness statements in this case included an accusation that Trump admitted to killing a 12-year-old girl. Curiously, or perhaps not so curious, is a report out of Japan that their intelligence agency has purchased a video tape of Trump murdering a 12-year-old girl. The source on this is a former CIA asset living in Japan who I questioned. Normally such a claim might be seen as a wild conspiracy theory except that soon afterward, Trump sent an American naval flotilla to confront North Korea.

Our CIA asset had claimed this is what Japan demanded in their blackmail of Trump, information that predated the military order by 10 days. Let’s call it a coincidence but also be forewarned as well as we are piling up coincidences. They are forming a pattern and the pattern is now overwhelming, blackmail, personal deals, radical policy changes, it doesn’t take a genius to put it together.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<<

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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2017, 04:54:29 AM »
Many, are you seeking a listing as a fake news site for RUA?
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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2017, 05:31:34 AM »
Some interesting - if far-fetched sounding - content here suggesting Japan may be behind what Trump is doing: http://journal-neo.org/2017/04/22/insanity-and-the-art-of-trump-s-deal/

Quote
The witness statements in this case included an accusation that Trump admitted to killing a 12-year-old girl. Curiously, or perhaps not so curious, is a report out of Japan that their intelligence agency has purchased a video tape of Trump murdering a 12-year-old girl. The source on this is a former CIA asset living in Japan who I questioned. Normally such a claim might be seen as a wild conspiracy theory except that soon afterward, Trump sent an American naval flotilla to confront North Korea.

Our CIA asset had claimed this is what Japan demanded in their blackmail of Trump, information that predated the military order by 10 days. Let’s call it a coincidence but also be forewarned as well as we are piling up coincidences. They are forming a pattern and the pattern is now overwhelming, blackmail, personal deals, radical policy changes, it doesn’t take a genius to put it together.

That's some pretty outrageous and silly slander you've just published against the President of the USA.  :coffeeread:
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Offline Manny

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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2017, 06:46:43 AM »
Many, are you seeking a listing as a fake news site for RUA?

Do you consider Journal Neo a fake news site? Or the editor of Veterans Today who wrote it to be a fake news person?
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<<

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Offline Manny

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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2017, 06:51:02 AM »
That's some pretty outrageous and silly slander you've just published against the President of the USA.  :coffeeread:

Slander is speech not writing, I quoted a linked source. This is not an American site, we are free to discuss media articles freely here. Even outrageous or silly ones.

The rape case was certainly real: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-accused-underage-rape-lawsuit-a7352976.html
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<<

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Online andrewfi

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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2017, 08:57:32 AM »
No, the rape case isn't real.
Somebody, some organisation, keeps popping up with these applications but they never proceed. The purpose is not that the cases should ever proceed, they are usually based upon false information (addresses that don't exist, people who don't exist and the like). The idea behind it is to associate Trump with rape so that, by repetition of a lie, we come to associate Trump with rape and of being a rapist.

Here's a little thought experiment for you: If Japan was blackmailing the US and specifically the president do you really think that they'd allow word of the blackmail to escape? As soon as the info goes into the wild, as soon as we know about it, the blackmail becomes useless, the leverage is lost. Blackmail, for its effect, relies upon secrecy and the threat of disclosure. If the claims made have substance then their benefit to Japan (or interests within Japan) are now totally defused.

So, given that the kompromat, if genuine, ever existed is now exposed and that the interests of all concerned stakeholders were best served by secrecy we can infer that this is a made up story, not genuine. Did Engdahl make it up, or report upon claims of others? That doesn't matter in this context. It is notable that he does have a tendency to jump upon bandwagons, it is how he earns his living.
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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2017, 10:41:40 AM »
That's some pretty outrageous and silly slander you've just published against the President of the USA.  :coffeeread:

Slander is speech not writing, I quoted a linked source. This is not an American site, we are free to discuss media articles freely here. Even outrageous or silly ones.

The rape case was certainly real: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-accused-underage-rape-lawsuit-a7352976.html

Oh okay. Guess I meant defamation. I'm glad you posted the Independent link. A certain creepy fellow stands out.
I suggest you dig on that fellow. I wouldn't blame Japan. Strong rumor is that the Epstein operation on that island is a Mossad operation. They knew of Bill Clinton's weakness, had him out to that island numerous times and filmed his dirty deeds. 

Furthermore the efforts to discredit Trump before the election and even after he won, IMO were because he had stated that he would not continue perpetual wars and that he wanted a better relationship with Russia. I posted a link about CIA director Brennan's efforts to discredit the President in the Trump thread.

Now your job is to connect the dots with this fellow who wrote the story about Japan and our efforts in North Korea. The Clinton's know that Bill is the one who was filmed raping girls, but why not hire a guy to blame the Donald? Classic Clinton dirty politics. If you've read Hillary's interviews she blames her loss of the election on misogyny, the FBI and the Russians.  :coffeeread:

quote from Independent linked above:
In the lawsuit a witness, identified by the pseudonym Tiffany Doe, alleges she saw Mr Trump and billionaire-paedophile Jeffrey Epstein repeatedly rape the plaintiff, identified as Jane Doe.
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Offline Manny

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Re: North Korea.
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2017, 11:02:18 AM »
Furthermore the efforts to discredit Trump before the election and even after he won, IMO were because he had stated that he would not continue perpetual wars and that he wanted a better relationship with Russia.

Thats the point though, isnt it? He has u-turned completely. He has bombed two countries in a fortnight, Syria was without evidence and because Ivanka saw a pic on Twitter?  (:)  I mean come on......

And now he is threatening North Korea, who from what I can make out simply wants to be left alone. It seems Trump started the warmongering again against NK, and they are responding by pointing out they won't be bullied and will defend themselves.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<<

"He wants to build a wall to keep the Mexicans out. He reckons that's a great idea. The Chinese built a wall centuries ago - there ain't many Mexicans over there." ~ Kevin Bloody Wilson