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Author Topic: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)  (Read 11980 times)

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Online Markje

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2016, 01:15:28 AM »
The antagonist is Putin and Russia who violated International law by invading and seizing Crimea and then went on to make the situation worse by invading and seizing land in Donetsk and Luhansk. 
Nobody invaded or seized Crimea.

The Crimean parliament decided themselves to break away from Ukraine after the maidan-movement turned violent and became a fully independent autonomous region.

6 days later, a referendum was held to join Russia, or to remain independent for the time being. We all know how that vote turned out.

I don't understand how you can keep on believing propaganda, whilst you have someone with family living in Crimea right here on the board.

Mark.
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My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Offline Gipsy

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2016, 03:55:20 AM »
In some respects unfortunately RUA is divided between those who view Putin as the best thing since apple pie and those who find him the devil's agent on earth.

Putin is the proverbial little boy who cried wolf.  Always blaming the USA and the EU for his own shortcomings as a leader.  Continuing to attempt to blame the lower living standards and failing Russian federal budget on some sort of Western conspiracy.

Utter bollox Ant, you sure know nothing about your country's economics.

Look at the facts, there are far more people in the US enjoying a very low, much lower than Russian living standards.

Russia's federal budget is not failing, falling yes, but Russia has little to no external debt, unlike the US who has 19+ trillions debt.

And for sure, much of the current sanctions are in place by the EU due only to US pressures/threats.

Its not Russia who is the antagonist, its you  :censored: ers..

The antagonist is Putin and Russia who violated International law by invading and seizing Crimea and then went on to make the situation worse by invading and seizing land in Donetsk and Luhansk. 

Putin is a very greedy little man and no doubt he will continue to start trouble with the west by starting more wars and attempting to seize more land which does not belong to him.

If WWIII happens it will be because of Russian aggression and attempts to steal more land from others.  Once the USA and NATO decimate Russia they will be liable for war crimes and war damage against the people of Ukraine.

That would take something that you yanks and the majority of NATO countries do not have...    BALLS..  :ROFL:
Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen

Offline rosco

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2016, 04:49:55 AM »
In some respects unfortunately RUA is divided between those who view Putin as the best thing since apple pie and those who find him the devil's agent on earth.

Putin is the proverbial little boy who cried wolf.  Always blaming the USA and the EU for his own shortcomings as a leader.  Continuing to attempt to blame the lower living standards and failing Russian federal budget on some sort of Western conspiracy.

 :Zzzzsleep:


Offline rosco

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2016, 05:03:44 AM »
The antagonist is Putin and Russia who violated International law by invading and seizing Crimea and then went on to make the situation worse by invading and seizing land in Donetsk and Luhansk. 

Putin is a very greedy little man and no doubt he will continue to start trouble with the west by starting more wars and attempting to seize more land which does not belong to him.

If WWIII happens it will be because of Russian aggression and attempts to steal more land from others.  Once the USA and NATO decimate Russia they will be liable for war crimes and war damage against the people of Ukraine.

You're a sick man Ant and need help fast.

I highly doubt any members here are anti-yank but many of us do feel its our place to point facts out to people like you. So it's all Putins fault and Russia are the aggressors? Do you know anything about your own countries foreign policy?

"The US is said to have carried out 32 distinct and separate bombing campaigns on 24 different countries between 1945 and 1999". "Countries the US has bombed since 1945 is in fact only the most visible aspect of US Intervention abroad. In practice, US led assassinations and overthrows of legitimate governments and interference with elections may be just as significant as the actual bombings listed here."

https://wikispooks.com/wiki/US_Bombing_campaigns_since_1945

"America Has Been At War 93% of the Time – 222 Out of 239 Years – Since 1776"

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article41086.htm

So now it all comes out and you want to 'decimate Russia'? If you think you can drag the other NATO countries into yet another war with your arrogant cow boy attitude, particularly one against Russia, then I think you have seriously lost the plot.  :'(

Offline Maxx

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2016, 05:36:23 AM »

Anteros, you've highjacked Czenny's thread and made it into a contentious issue.

Offline Anteros

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2016, 07:58:37 AM »

That would take something that you yanks and the majority of NATO countries do not have...    BALLS..  :ROFL:

 :laugh:
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2016, 05:39:14 PM »

Anteros, you've highjacked Czenny's thread and made it into a contentious issue.

I agree, but some have risen to the occasion.

Let's move back to the initial topic.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline Anteros

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2016, 06:30:42 PM »

Anteros, you've highjacked Czenny's thread and made it into a contentious issue.

I agree, but some have risen to the occasion.

Let's move back to the initial topic.

I don't think I have highjacked it at all.  If I were to write a ra-ra thread about US Parades in NY City celebrating our victories over Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan the UK pro-Putin bunch would be all over that thread with the usual claims that the US is a warmongering country blah blah blah.  If there isn't any balance then what is the point?

I think you actually probably agree with me that Putin and company use the Great Patriotic War aka WWII as a way to deflect away from bad economy and greed of his inner circle of Oligarchs.  Just wait till we hear the speech -- USA is evil, blah blah blah.

If some can criticize the USA incessantly (and I agree we need it sometimes) it makes no sense to have blind allegiance to Putin with never any thought behind it.  IMO.
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Offline Czenny

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2016, 07:21:40 PM »
The notion democracy includes free expressions of one's views, doesn't it? So.
My opinion is as follows.
Anteros has written
Quote
I think you actually probably agree with me that Putin and company use the Great Patriotic War aka WWII as a way to deflect away from bad economy and greed of his inner circle of Oligarchs.

I do not agree with that.
In the FSU 9 May was ALWAYS a great holiday, much has been devoted to celebrate it: concerts, movies, and so on. In Russia and Ukraine it was and is the same. You may call it the tradition to immortalize memories of GRW heroes and those who dead in the war. It was a big, very big tragedy for the country, it was a lesson also, it was times when soviet people presented their strength and unity, it was a kind of examination of humanity, it was an example of existential sense of life, it was examples of sacrifices.
If for example the economy is excellent the day of 9 of May will be celebrated more intensively so to say in the country.
Putin is just a president(just!) . We have here millions of people who waits this Day, and it IS IMPORTANT for them.

Just come here and speak with ordinary people who speak of GPW with eyes full of tears and I am sure you will understand.
But being intelligent lady I understand your way of thinking and I understand why your thought are of that kind. Sometimes we need to penetrate in the subject we analyse ...we must feel the mood of analysed event  to understand this or that in this complicated life. It's not simple...ever...

With all my respect to all members of the forum.  :)
Livet är fullt av ironier.

Offline Czenny

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2016, 07:48:52 PM »
One of the most known and popular poem of GPW times, by a soviet writer Constantine Simonov.
Translation into English by Yuriy Zubovski.

Wait for me, and I’ll return.
But really truly wait,
Wait, when you are concerned
By yellow rains of late,
Wait, when the snows blow,
Wait, when it’s hot,
Wait, when others say to go,
With yesterday forgot.
Wait, when from far away
Letters don’t arrive,
Wait, when everyone might say
No hope survives.

Wait for me, and I’ll be return,
Do not wish them well
Those who have in their minds burned,
That it’s time to say farewell.
Let the mother and son believe
That I’ve from life retired,
Let friends no longer grieve,
Sit down by the fire,
Drink a bitter wine
In memory of me …
Wait. At the same time
Don’t drink free.

Wait for me, and I’ll return,
Death is who I’ll spite.
Who did not wait for me, in turn
He’ll say I’m lucky, quite.
They who did not wait can’t fathom,
How among the flames
By waiting for me, madam
Helped death be overcame.
How I survived, will consecrate
Only you and I, –
Simply: you knew how to wait,
And refused to say goodbye.
Livet är fullt av ironier.

Offline Anteros

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2016, 08:09:18 PM »
The notion democracy includes free expressions of one's views, doesn't it? So.
My opinion is as follows.
Anteros has written
Quote
I think you actually probably agree with me that Putin and company use the Great Patriotic War aka WWII as a way to deflect away from bad economy and greed of his inner circle of Oligarchs.

I do not agree with that.
In the FSU 9 May was ALWAYS a great holiday, much has been devoted to celebrate it: concerts, movies, and so on. In Russia and Ukraine it was and is the same. You may call it the tradition to immortalize memories of GRW heroes and those who dead in the war. It was a big, very big tragedy for the country, it was a lesson also, it was times when soviet people presented their strength and unity, it was a kind of examination of humanity, it was an example of existential sense of life, it was examples of sacrifices.
If for example the economy is excellent the day of 9 of May will be celebrated more intensively so to say in the country.
Putin is just a president(just!) . We have here millions of people who waits this Day, and it IS IMPORTANT for them.

Just come here and speak with ordinary people who speak of GPW with eyes full of tears and I am sure you will understand.
But being intelligent lady I understand your way of thinking and I understand why your thought are of that kind. Sometimes we need to penetrate in the subject we analyse ...we must feel the mood of analysed event  to understand this or that in this complicated life. It's not simple...ever...

With all my respect to all members of the forum.  :)

What I wrote was directed at Av, not at you.  I am not surprised at your response. 

Also please understand that my criticism is of the Putin regime, not of the ordinary people who lost family members.  That is much different and on the actual day (May 9th) I will write something which is respectful and not critical.  Hope you understand the delineation of my thoughts.
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Offline Annushka

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2016, 12:25:57 AM »
One of the most known and popular poem of GPW times, by a soviet writer Constantine Simonov.
Translation into English by Yuriy Zubovski.

Wait for me, and I’ll return.
But really truly wait,
Wait, when you are concerned
By yellow rains of late,
Wait, when the snows blow,
Wait, when it’s hot,
Wait, when others say to go,
With yesterday forgot.
Wait, when from far away
Letters don’t arrive,
Wait, when everyone might say
No hope survives.

Wait for me, and I’ll be return,
Do not wish them well
Those who have in their minds burned,
That it’s time to say farewell.
Let the mother and son believe
That I’ve from life retired,
Let friends no longer grieve,
Sit down by the fire,
Drink a bitter wine
In memory of me …
Wait. At the same time
Don’t drink free.

Wait for me, and I’ll return,
Death is who I’ll spite.
Who did not wait for me, in turn
He’ll say I’m lucky, quite.
They who did not wait can’t fathom,
How among the flames
By waiting for me, madam
Helped death be overcame.
How I survived, will consecrate
Only you and I, –
Simply: you knew how to wait,
And refused to say goodbye.

With your permission, a poem published in the newspaper "Pravda" (1942) is almost directly behind the poem Simonov, as a response to Soviet womens Soviet soldiers.

 ЖДУ ТЕБЯ

      Жду тебя, и ты пройдёшь
      Сквозь огонь и кровь.
      Жду тебя, и ты придёшь
      В дом родимый вновь.
      Жду, едва забрезжит свет,
      Жду в тиши ночей,
      Жду, когда полгода нет
      От тебя вестей.
      Я не знаю тех дорог,
      Где тебя найти,
      Запад, юг или восток
      На твоём пути?
      На полях ли снеговых
      Ранен ты в бою…
      Жду тебя и для других
      Рукавицы шью.
      Может, терпишь у врагов
      Горькую беду…
      Жду тебя без слёз и слов,
      Просто – очень жду.
      И ни боль, ни смерть, ни ложь
      Не разлучат нас.
      Жду тебя, и ты придёшь
      В мой счастливый час!
                                           Г. Рубинштейн, 1942 г.


Offline rosco

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2016, 03:32:03 AM »
The notion democracy includes free expressions of one's views, doesn't it? So.
My opinion is as follows.
Anteros has written
Quote
I think you actually probably agree with me that Putin and company use the Great Patriotic War aka WWII as a way to deflect away from bad economy and greed of his inner circle of Oligarchs.

I do not agree with that.
In the FSU 9 May was ALWAYS a great holiday, much has been devoted to celebrate it: concerts, movies, and so on. In Russia and Ukraine it was and is the same. You may call it the tradition to immortalize memories of GRW heroes and those who dead in the war. It was a big, very big tragedy for the country, it was a lesson also, it was times when soviet people presented their strength and unity, it was a kind of examination of humanity, it was an example of existential sense of life, it was examples of sacrifices.
If for example the economy is excellent the day of 9 of May will be celebrated more intensively so to say in the country.
Putin is just a president(just!) . We have here millions of people who waits this Day, and it IS IMPORTANT for them.

Just come here and speak with ordinary people who speak of GPW with eyes full of tears and I am sure you will understand.
But being intelligent lady I understand your way of thinking and I understand why your thought are of that kind. Sometimes we need to penetrate in the subject we analyse ...we must feel the mood of analysed event  to understand this or that in this complicated life. It's not simple...ever...

With all my respect to all members of the forum.  :)

What I wrote was directed at Av, not at you.  I am not surprised at your response. 

Also please understand that my criticism is of the Putin regime, not of the ordinary people who lost family members.  That is much different and on the actual day (May 9th) I will write something which is respectful and not critical.  Hope you understand the delineation of my thoughts.

Czenny was only answering with what many others would like to convey.....but in a more informed, personal and real style. You seem to have a real hatred for anything Putin/Russia and it surprises me that you spend so much time on a forum like this.

You'll also find that the "UK-pro Putin bunch" are only telling it how they see it. A strong man with plenty to be admired, taking decisions for his countries benefit but making some mistakes from a world citizen perspective. The thing is though, Western media do their best to portray Putin as the devil and sadly folk like you lap it up, whereas he's traditionally been less problematic or intrusive than any US president. You just don't like him because he won't roll over like a submissive dog.

It's clear to see why you can't grasp this after all the debates we've had. For us, its about the truth and you, a one sided American isolated mentality.

-- Mod note: This topic has been split and the replies to this post are now here: >>here<< to keep this topic on subject --

Offline Tom Cat

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #38 on: May 08, 2016, 12:12:19 PM »
There's no denying Russia's contributions in defeating the Nazis.
Had Germany not suffered great loss courtesy of Russia, the end results may have been even more devastating.

In WWII 3 out of 4 German KIA Were by Soviet Army

WWII's Eastern Front was by far the bloodiest theater of war the world has ever seen. It cost the lives of nearly 12 million combatants of which 4.3 million Axis troops including 3.55 million Germans - death tolls far in excess of those in the west

http://russia-insider.com/en/history/wwii-3-out-4-german-kia-were-soviet-army/ri6663
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

Online AvHdB

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2016, 07:14:02 PM »
For most today in Ukraine and Russia, is a day of remembrance but also celebration. To those who lost relatives, may you remember and hold dear what they fought for.

As many will say Victory has a terrible price.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline Anteros

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2016, 09:41:47 PM »
For most today in Ukraine and Russia, is a day of remembrance but also celebration. To those who lost relatives, may you remember and hold dear what they fought for.

As many will say Victory has a terrible price.

Well said.  tiphat
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

Online AvHdB

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2018, 05:30:22 PM »
I looked for a thread regarding "The War to End all Wars" but it does not seem there is one. Sort of interesting in today's world there were slogans over 100 years ago

So I will qoute the below Twitter feed.

https://twitter.com/i/moments/989503812586164224

The images are more compelling than any words.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline Annushka

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Offline Wiz

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2018, 01:44:52 AM »
Thank you Annushka for the Music and the link..... looks somebody is paying attention to my request.

Waiting to see the Presidential inauguration today...watching live RT.

And for you here another couple of Russian music ....

Slavianka ...



and this very nice one:

"Salute of Moscow" (Semeon Tchernetsky)



Enjoy today and tomorrow parade........

 tiphat

Offline Annushka

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2018, 09:35:10 AM »
Thank you Annushka for the Music and the link..... looks somebody is paying attention to my request.

Waiting to see the Presidential inauguration today...watching live RT.

And for you here another couple of Russian music ....

Slavianka ...



and this very nice one:

"Salute of Moscow" (Semeon Tchernetsky)



Enjoy today and tomorrow parade........

 tiphat

Thanks for sharing. :thumbsup:  In Russia everyone knows and loves songs of the war years. Please, you too enjoy, medley of military songs in my video.  tiphat


And, of course, the legendary military song "Katyusha", beloved by everyone! :thumbsup:


Offline Wiz

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Re: Great Patriotic War ( Velikaya Otechestvennaya Voyna)
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2018, 02:35:43 PM »
Thank you Annushka for the Music and the link..... looks somebody is paying attention to my request.

Waiting to see the Presidential inauguration today...watching live RT.

And for you here another couple of Russian music ....

Slavianka ...



and this very nice one:

"Salute of Moscow" (Semeon Tchernetsky)



Enjoy today and tomorrow parade........

 tiphat

Thanks for sharing. :thumbsup:  In Russia everyone knows and loves songs of the war years. Please, you too enjoy, medley of military songs in my video.  tiphat


And, of course, the legendary military song "Katyusha", beloved by everyone! :thumbsup:


Thank you

I enjoyed watching today the inauguration of the President and listing to many patriotic songs.

 :thumbsup:


 

 

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