Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth

[Volshe]

Perhaps my inner anorexic is finding his voice?

 

Andy, TomT is right You are ok now because you are taking Herbalife, and those shakes are nutritional and filling (wording?  ). Should you decide to end the program/ when you decide to do so, you need to up your cal intake. Sans shakes, i think 1800 cal is the least for you. But for now, i'd stick to whatever you are doing right now, as i think this Igor guy knows what's he advising you.

[andrewfi]

Volshe, Tom - I promise you, I'd not be doing the 1500 calories thing if I did not have the support of the knowledge that most of my basic nutrition needs have been taken care of in the Herbalife products. I think that managing a fully balanced diet without that input would be bloody hard both in terms of actually constructing meals but also the preparation time to shop and cook.

With Herbalife I know that I can manage much more casually, although I am certain that my dietary choices have improved over the past weeks.

Yep, 'filling' works.

On the topic of 'filling', colour me surprised but...

The shakes are surprisingly good at providing a feeling of satiation and, at the Herbalife Cafeteria they serve up the F1 with a double dose of Aloe Water and their magic tea all served hot. By the time one has had over half a litre of tea and aloe water and some 350ml of F1 one's tum tum does feel pretty full. I think the warmth also has an effect here.

The surprise though was adding their protein powder to my home made mixes. Igor and, well, everyone else, told me that adding protein powder would delay the onset of hunger pangs and I thought it was just jibber jabber. I bought some in order to ensure that my protein consumption remained quite high because that has other benefits for fat reduction (and that's not magic).

So, now I whack in 26 calories of protein powder into each mix. And damme, but the new version does keep the hunger pangs away for longer.

Oh, today, for the second day I broke the 130Kg barrier. That's 5.5Kg (12.1lbs) in 17days.

Tomorrow we have the Christmas party. All ten clubs that Igor runs will be there. Quite looking forward to it.

Having looked at the Herbalife compensation plan it is clear that Igor is playing a blinder.
One of the issues that network marketers face is called 'breakout' it happens when a person in one's downline reaches a certain position in the matrix and moves out of her position within the matrix and, effectively becomes the start of a new matrix. At that time the upline loses both the revenue from the override commissions and the purchase volume of that person and the promoted person's downline. That can knock distributor's incomes down quite significantly -especially if the cross a bonus level as a result. Anyway, by running these clubs which are ALL focused upon individual consumption and not recruitment or sales volume he has immunized himself from that every happening to him, no matter how successful his downline becomes.

In fact, he doesn't need anything of a downline in order to have a very good income from his retail sales without recruitment. I'd estimate that without any downline and without accounting for any bonuses the guy is making a net of well over €100k per annum, that makes him pretty well-to-do in these parts. For sure he has a downline though.

OK, that means nothing to folks who don't do, or never have done MLM/network marketing but for those who have - it means the bloke has cracked it!

[Volshe]

Volshe, Tom - I promise you, I'd not be doing the 1500 calories thing if I did not have the support of the knowledge that most of my basic nutrition needs have been taken care of in the Herbalife products. I think that managing a fully balanced diet without that input would be bloody hard both in terms of actually constructing meals but also the preparation time to shop and cook.

It is  I wanted щи (cabbage soup) yesterday, my folks said i haven't made плов (meat with rice eastern style) in a while; i don't trust anyone to cook for me (except my mother  ), because i know people are not as obsessed with quality of ingredients and with measuring everything meticulously like i am ... Long story short, i spent 3.5 h in the kitchen to make everything from scratch. I don't cook like that every day of course, normally we eat simple stuff: chicken breasts, grilled or baked, buckwheat, greenies. When you want a change from simple foods though... 

The shakes are surprisingly good at providing a feeling of satiation

True, i can attest to that 

Tomorrow we have the Christmas party.

Cool! Have fun!

[krassavchick]

Krassavchick, thanks. I should've done this years ago. One thing though, that metabolism is going to slow down at some point. It'll get harder.

It already has Andrew.    Not so much keeping the weight off [as of yet], but maintaining muscle mass and also finding the time with a hectic life.  However, one benefit of getting older in my view is becoming less worried about how good you look and more interested about how you feel, both physically and psychologically; most forms of exercise can give us that.   

I knew in my early thirties, that I wouldn't be able to maintain the high impact training Muay Thai requires so I've adapted, and I'm sure I will again in the future; all part of the process.  I also agree, that swimming and  brisk walking are great forms of exercise if you have issues with your knees and neck.

Oh, today, for the second day I broke the 130Kg barrier. That's 5.5Kg (12.1lbs) in 17days.

I know I've already said it, but well done Andrew! 

[andrewfi]

Krassavchick thanks for the support!

I am really chuffed about progress, much better than I expected but I know it won't keep up (but I am happy to get while the getting is good!) and that at least some will go back over Christmas/New Year but then I reckon I lose nothing because I'd have put that weight on anyway, top of my starting weight, so I will still come out ahead.

I guess I am less concerned about how I look these days but I am not doing this just for me and absolutely not just for looks - but to have a healthier, longer life.

===========

Volshe, do you cook with a calculator, scales and a notepad to hand?
That's my new game - finding space on the counter-top for my calculator and pad.

We have plov and shi here too. The first more than the last. I confess that mine usually comes in a jar from the nice guys at Salvest but I really should make my own because I do like it.

[andrewfi]

We can't afford fast food! Click the pic to see why!

[sparky114]

Too much Red wine and too many Air miles contribute to the 98kg i weigh now but at 6' 180cm its ideal  just need to improve my core muscles in the belly area   .....ohh  and also the Road side Bacon Butty/ egg sausage bacon bap  bars and the alluring smell that emanates from them... are my down falls 

[Manny]

Bodyweight in pounds multiplied by 8 (calories) gives the required number,

My in house nutritionist says that cannot be right. Working out hers and mine from that gives quite low numbers, hers comes out at less than 900 cals. Which isn't enough on a daily basis, especially if exercising.

When I was on the 5-2, I had two 600 cal days a week, and they take some getting used to. For sure, you wouldn't want harsh calorie restriction every day.

[AvHdB]

Two 'foods' that I have noticed for some people are appetite suppressants are Red Wine and grapefruit.

Grapefruit works well with me and I know others who also say the same.

Eat less > weigh less. Especially if you can avoid the Golden Arches & Bacon Butty Sandwiches that grow along laybys.

Curious if any one monitors there sodium intake, I like sushi but if you want salt than Japanese is the way to go. Chinese is not far behind.

[sparky114]

Two 'foods' that I have noticed for some people are appetite suppressants are Red Wine and grapefruit.

Grapefruit works well with me and I know others who also say the same.

Eat less > weigh less. Especially if you can avoid the Golden Arches & Bacon Butty Sandwiches that grow along laybys.

Curious if any one monitors there sodium intake, I like sushi but if you want salt than Japanese is the way to go. Chinese is not far behind.

So what your saying is drink more red wine and i will be less hungry , but the layby wagons have strong magnetic force fields honest  never grace the arches dont want to eat the unhealthy stuff 

[AvHdB]

Two 'foods' that I have noticed for some people are appetite suppressants are Red Wine and grapefruit.

Grapefruit works well with me and I know others who also say the same.

Eat less > weigh less. Especially if you can avoid the Golden Arches & Bacon Butty Sandwiches that grow along laybys.

Curious if any one monitors there sodium intake, I like sushi but if you want salt than Japanese is the way to go. Chinese is not far behind.

So what your saying is drink more red wine and i will be less hungry , but the layby wagons have strong magnetic force fields honest  never grace the arches dont want to eat the unhealthy stuff 

Good call on those Golden Arches!

I always wonder what fertilizers they pump in the ground over there, that the those Bacon Butty Sandwiches are so popular. What ever happened to tea and crumpets?

Off course in Amsterdam there is Patat Oorlog, I suspect Markje has his favourite, mine is on the Voetboogstraat. For the good order this food staple is from those miserable people to the south. A serving is some 400 calories, excluding any sauce.

[Manny]

Off course in Amsterdam there is Patat Oorlog, I suspect Markje has his favourite, mine is on the Voetboogstraat. For the good order this food staple is from those miserable people to the south. A serving is some 400 calories, excluding any sauce.

None of that golden arches malarkey for me either. I prefer proper food. Difficult to beat Santos in Scheveningen.

[AKA Luke]

Off course in Amsterdam there is Patat Oorlog, I suspect Markje has his favourite, mine is on the Voetboogstraat. For the good order this food staple is from those miserable people to the south. A serving is some 400 calories, excluding any sauce.

None of that golden arches malarkey for me either. I prefer proper food. Difficult to beat Santos in Scheveningen.

There's a reason why several high level staff who worked their way up from flipping burgers to the top all died of colon cancer before 50.
Shite through and through.

Look at the French! cheese, wine, bread, lots of rich and fatty foods, fois gras, macarons etc etc.

Good quality, moderation and the respect for food is the biggest reason French women are so petite and the guys typically are too. Can't recall ever seeing a tubby waiter or waitress in Paris. Or a fat girl in the street.

Supplements and such are great but eating Mcdonalds is a poor man's choice.

[msmoby]

Look at the French! cheese, wine, bread, lots of rich and fatty foods, fois gras, macarons etc etc.

Good quality, moderation and the respect for food is the biggest reason French women are so petite and the guys typically are too. Can't recall ever seeing a tubby waiter or waitress in Paris. Or a fat girl in the street.

Supplements and such are great but eating Mcdonalds is a poor man's choice.

interesting point

http://www.elle.com/beauty/health-fitness/advice/a18603/french-women-dieting/

France McD's were the first one's were I saw salad as a replacement for fries and fruit salad - instead of a dessert.

[AvHdB]

I have some 20 odd days and I avoided for the entire year Bugger King and MickyD's.

The culture and food represent so many things that are ugly in the US.

[TomT]

Oh, today, for the second day I broke the 130Kg barrier. That's 5.5Kg (12.1lbs) in 17days.

The numbers tell the tale. Quick loss may be encouraging but five pounds per week is too fast. For males, three pounds are usually considered to be the safe upper limit. Reducing your rate of weight loss by two pounds, with your current activities, will require an increase in intake of 1000 calories per day.

[AvHdB]

Oh, today, for the second day I broke the 130Kg barrier. That's 5.5Kg (12.1lbs) in 17days.

The numbers tell the tale. Quick loss may be encouraging but five pounds per week is too fast. For males, three pounds are usually considered to be the safe upper limit. Reducing your rate of weight loss by two pounds, with your current activities, will require an increase in intake of 1000 calories per day.

Andrew, I have slightly different numbers, but Tom is spot on. As I said before slow but steady is better. YO YO is bad as it will quickly come back. We are speaking about lifestyle changes. Stay active and eat less.

Than you can battle more with me. 

Pecking at the keyboard is not being physically active.

[Manny]

I have some 20 odd days and I avoided for the entire year Bugger King and MickyD's.

The culture and food represent so many things that are ugly in the US.

I was cajoled in once by kids. I tried something, it was rank and reminded me why I don't go. I cant believe people pay money to eat that crap.

[AJ]

Andrew congrats on the progress! and best of luck going forward.

Overall it all boils down to whats been mentioned many times.

Eat better , move more

Anything at all that allows a person to accomplish anything within that simple premise  is going to help,
whether that's merely some reminder that they need,  or a strict regimen outlined.

 I do feel it's best accomplished long term  by  small, steady, but increasing changes of life style habits.

I think you'll find that some (certainly not all) foods will actually put you off , after a long term healthy diet.Your palate is likely to adjust and they will tempt you, but seem too rich to more than sample.

 My diet ,while generally very healthy is remarkably different than years ago (as then I needed to carb load very heavy )
 I've been around some of the worlds best trainers and nutritionists and generally they simply stress the expected: Hydration , healthy well rounded diet , and exercise.
They have no real secrets just good sound programs tailored to what a certain individuals specific needs and goals are .

 

[andrewfi]

With regard to the numbers there's an awful lot of 'opinions' out there but I have been doing quite a lot of research on the subject and, well, I know I am not an idiot and I know that I do good research.

Now, some of the numbers that some of you have shared above actually mesh quite well with my own. Please note the 8 calories per pound I mentioned before is for folks who are very overweight - like myself, not for folks who are already skinny!

Manny, Olya weighs about 8 stone, 112lbs or 51Kg. I guessed that before cheating and working back from what you said and came to the same place.
I used an online calculator to do the sums because I can share that rather than using pencil and paper as I did the other day. I had to guess but I used age 38 and height 65" and body fat percentage of 20% as an average figure. According to the calculated figures her range for weight loss is about 1100 to 1380 calories per day. This tool works using lean body mass not overall body weight. The original formula I used works with overall body weight and is thus simpler to use and calculate as it requires fewer inputs. The output numbers are pretty similar though.

The calculator is here: http://www.hussmanfitness.org/bmrcalc.htm you'll need to refresh the page to reuse the tool.

In my case the range to lose weight comes in at 1600-2040 calories per day.

I am not going to scream and shout about 100 calories! The chances are that I underestimate by that much, or more, anyway - that's what people do, understimate. I try to record everything, I have a journal in which I record everything (supposedly) but it doesn't show where I licked the spoon clean after measuring out the Ceasar salad sauce in tonight's salad. I didn't record that I ate 4 biscuits tonight - the record shows two. I don't record the juices or squashes that I use to flavour the 2-3 litres of water I drink each day nor do I bother with the odd cherry tomato that I eat (5 of those is 20 calories apparently!).

Additionally I am about to embark on a sojourn with my parents whose hobby is eating out. Every day, every meal and its bloody Christmas and New Year. My average is going to go way up even if I try to control things, and I will try to exert some control!

So, for me to lose some extra now simply reduces the work I will have to do in the New Year.

However, I do know that I am enjoying life at 1500 calories (by my estimates). According to the electronic brains in the scales I use and am using at Herbalife my muscle mass is not being hit and we record that every week along with other stats. We all know that the absolute numbers with these electronic devices are an estimate but the trends they can record are real and significant observations.

The chances are that right now I am getting better nutrition than I was previously, in part due to the foundation set by the use of the Herbalife products. My energy levels are just fine, in fact I actually feel more energetic, I am certainly sleeping better and doing more exercise than previously. My blood pressure is stable and well controlled - I expect that it should fall, my doctor gave me a formula that related blood pressure to weight loss but I have not lost enough yet for it to noticeably kick in. However I do know that even at 80 kilos I would still be on meds. I got high blood pressure in a family where, if I didn't I would be the only one with normal blood pressure numbers.

Right now my weight loss is pretty much as I estimated it would be on the calories I consume and with the exercise that I do. Life will make sure that this progress will not be maintained but to get as good a start as possible using sensible methods while working to change some ingrained bad habits is no bad thing.

The chances are that most people do not have the ability to control their environment as I do. I work at home, I choose when and where I eat and can afford to buy good nutrition that is pleasant to eat. The fact that Ira is keeping me under close observation and has a personal investment in my success is a big help.

There's many ways to skin a cat but the way I am going is doing that which is universally recommended:
Creating a calorie deficit between consumption and intake.
Increasing physical exercise.
Monitoring nutrition inputs to attain a balanced diet with no deficits in vitamins or any food groups.
Monitoring significant markers of body health and recording them to track changes.
Working with an external monitor (mentor) with significant expertise in the field.

The rate of weight loss is greater than I anticipated because my ability to control my calorie intake has exceeded my own expectations but this is a marathon and not a sprint.

Oh, as food goes, an Egg McMuffin is hardly the worst thing to eat once, in almost three weeks. It is fun to be a food snob, I do it myself, but I enjoyed that meal very much. I just wish that social pressure had not forced me to end up with a glug of Formula 1 just a few minutes later! That messed up my bookkeeping for the day! But, that's life, how things go.


======================

AJ, in  the end there IS nothing else than hydration, healthy well rounded diet and exercise. it is kinda like saying all you need to do to stay alive is breathe oxygen - its kinda given a statement of the obvious

The problem is that many of us, myself included don't do these things. Igor has me targeted for 4 litres of water per day. I just can't get there but I am consistently slightly dehydrated. I am regularly between 2-3 litres which is a big increase on what it used to be, but then I get less fluid from food these days.

Until a few months ago, about a year now in fact, I was getting very little exercise. I started swimming to help with back problems which were made worse by my weight. And, much as I love food I ate too much and too badly.

[AJ]

AJ, in  the end there IS nothing else than hydration, healthy well rounded diet and exercise. it is kinda like saying all you need to do to stay alive is breathe oxygen - its kinda given a statement of the obvious

Of course! and  I was being Capt. Obvious with  intent.
I was pointing out the very best in the world (which Igor may be) really only enforce the same basic fundamentals.

Any method to achieve them is great.
Adding in a support group increases the odds of success,
so while oxygen is fundamental for life, other things can be done to improve ones chances.

You seem well on your way, good luck!

[shakespear]

As a former competitive swimmer, I recommend. 

Me too.  Swam at Drury University on scholarship.  Was a 1650 man - best time was somewhere around 17:30 

[andrewfi]

Thanks AJ!

Igor is probably not the best in the world, but he is self evidently a decent bloke and he takes care of his clients. I meet people who are attaining their goals following the program that Herbalife and he set out.

Interestingly he never suggested a calorie goal. But frankly, if following the 2 shakes and a meal plus fruity snacks system, it is hard to eat huge amounts of calories.
The basic shake, made with water, which I prefer, is 90 calories, 117 with the protein supplement. Two of those is just 180/234 calories per day. That and a big Mac meal is only gonna be about the 1500 calories mark!

Something I liked, when I saw it - he and his mother, who runs the club I go to, greeted a woman who I had not seen before. They weighed her and praised her success just the same as those who have lost much more. She has lost only 5Kg in three months. That's still a pound a week. Work to the goal and show progress that's all we can do and that is recognised by these folks.

[shakespear]

Back in the early 1990's I ballooned up to 275 and followed the Weight Watchers Program religiously.  I got down to 210 losing about 2 -2 1/2 pounds per week (after an initial greater loss the first 3 weeks).  Writing down every bite you put into your mouth is critical for success. 

I'm ashamed to say what I weigh today.  I desperately need to lose weight and a bunch of it.

I can't do the shakes.  The texture and taste put me off.

Maybe I'll head back to weight watchers . . . . . . . . . . . . .       

[andrewfi]

How long did you do the shakes, shakey?

Did you make 'em by mixing in a blender or similar or with a spoon or shaker?

I confess when I started I did not like them at all, but I decided they were medicine for my illness of being bloody obese.
At the Herbalife 'cafeteria' they use a blender and they taste and feel much better. I bought a little whisk, the type you use to froth up crema on coffee and it has made them much better. Add a bit of fruit, ice, whatever and they get better gain. Tastes OK for medicine.

I look at this way: I can live with the taste if I get the results. I'd be mad to not do it because of the taste, but it isn't bad when you do it right.
I like the cookies and cream best but locally the apple flavour seems the most popular.

The shakes paradigm works for me because it reduces choices and thus temptation.

It is much easier to say 'NO!' and mean it than to say 'OK, but just a little bit!'