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Author Topic: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth  (Read 6370 times)

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Online andrewfi

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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2015, 02:10:59 PM »
I don't feel happy with eating so little so I topped off with a little suppertime treat.

I have been surprised though by how much 1500 calories actually is. While I empty out my 'old' larder I am getting through stuff that I will be removing from the diet but even high calorie sauces and stuff go a long way in smaller portions.
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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2015, 02:17:25 PM »
As is no secret I am not the skinniest bloke in any room

I just dropped in to wish you luck.  Those of us who are middle-aged soldiers in the battle of the bulge understand the difficulties.  Hope it works out as you want it to.

B/B

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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2015, 04:00:15 PM »
Manny, i am female for goodness sake!!!  :eeekk:

I am sure that stuff has a negative effect somehow on women as well.

Unnaturally muscular women isn't a good look.

I cant see any of that hormone/steroid stuff having a good long-term effect on anyone. I know its popular in eastern Europe, all the Polish shops here are full of dodgy powders and "supplements" on a high up shelf.  :-\
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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2015, 04:25:45 PM »
Manny, i am female for goodness sake!!!  :eeekk:

I am sure that stuff has a negative effect somehow on women as well.

Unnaturally muscular women isn't a good look.

Manny, HGH (at least in females) is used mainly for body recomp, ie. to lower body fat %, while maintaining muscles, not to gain mass. I don't like most of the female competitive body-builders, i wouldn't want that looks for myself. Think of a fitness model look, or of competitors in 'bikini pro' category. They are lean, something like this: http://www.simplyshredded.com/ifbb-bikini-pro-fitness-model-noemi-olah-talks-with-simplyshredded-com.html (I like smaller arms than that.) Gals i am mentioning got from average to that in matter of months. OF COURSE, all train and diet, that goes without saying, but to have that figure without any chemistry is very difficult, unless you do only that (ie. obsess over diet, it's 100% clean, limited in calories + at least 8h of working out a week, preferably 10h, 5 of which heavy lifting  :duh: I work out at least 6h a week, mostly 8h; at least 3h of those is heavy lifting, the rest is metabolic training and HIIT - that's A LOT, i eat pretty clean and moderate, usually not more than 1500 cal, and i am nowhere near that body fat % )

edited to add: i found pics online of my on and off PT, she has the best body i've ever seen: http://soko-gym.com/coach-instructor/marija-micovic/

and here too (albeit it's not a nice pic, but you get an idea) https://www.facebook.com/183396598367039/photos/pb.183396598367039.-2207520000.1449358261./1091875684185788/?type=3&theater

She doesn't take anything synthetic, but her diet is something, she shared it with me - vegan, about 800 cal a day, one fast day a week, plus she trains 6 days a week, for couple of hours a day... That's what it takes, if you are going 100% natural route. (I am not that disciplined and can't possibly live in the gym.)
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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2015, 11:19:57 PM »

She doesn't take anything synthetic, but her diet is something, she shared it with me - vegan, about 800 cal a day, one fast day a week, plus she trains 6 days a week, for couple of hours a day... That's what it takes, if you are going 100% natural route. (I am not that disciplined and can't possibly live in the gym.)

Exactly, and if you need another example of the result of a similar diet...but 'aquarobics' - rather than the gym....plus a 'control' subject to show what can happen if you stray...



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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #30 on: December 06, 2015, 12:18:22 AM »
Manny, i am female for goodness sake!!!  :eeekk:

I am sure that stuff has a negative effect somehow on women as well.

Unnaturally muscular women isn't a good look.

Manny, HGH (at least in females) is used mainly for body recomp, ie. to lower body fat %, while maintaining muscles, not to gain mass. I don't like most of the female competitive body-builders, i wouldn't want that looks for myself. Think of a fitness model look, or of competitors in 'bikini pro' category. They are lean, something like this: http://www.simplyshredded.com/ifbb-bikini-pro-fitness-model-noemi-olah-talks-with-simplyshredded-com.html (I like smaller arms than that.) Gals i am mentioning got from average to that in matter of months. OF COURSE, all train and diet, that goes without saying, but to have that figure without any chemistry is very difficult, unless you do only that (ie. obsess over diet, it's 100% clean, limited in calories + at least 8h of working out a week, preferably 10h, 5 of which heavy lifting  :duh: I work out at least 6h a week, mostly 8h; at least 3h of those is heavy lifting, the rest is metabolic training and HIIT - that's A LOT, i eat pretty clean and moderate, usually not more than 1500 cal, and i am nowhere near that body fat % )

edited to add: i found pics online of my on and off PT, she has the best body i've ever seen: http://soko-gym.com/coach-instructor/marija-micovic/

and here too (albeit it's not a nice pic, but you get an idea) https://www.facebook.com/183396598367039/photos/pb.183396598367039.-2207520000.1449358261./1091875684185788/?type=3&theater

She doesn't take anything synthetic, but her diet is something, she shared it with me - vegan, about 800 cal a day, one fast day a week, plus she trains 6 days a week, for couple of hours a day... That's what it takes, if you are going 100% natural route. (I am not that disciplined and can't possibly live in the gym.)

She needs food. Poor anorexic woman.
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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #31 on: December 06, 2015, 12:21:47 AM »
As is no secret I am not the skinniest bloke in any room

I just dropped in to wish you luck.  Those of us who are middle-aged soldiers in the battle of the bulge understand the difficulties.  Hope it works out as you want it to.

B/B

Thanks for that.

I am not looking forward to the season of 'unfasting' because I can see the kilos coming back with a vengeance! This soldier might just collect a couple of wounds.
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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2015, 01:30:31 AM »
She needs food. Poor anorexic woman.


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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2015, 06:52:29 AM »
Manny, i am female for goodness sake!!!  :eeekk:

I am sure that stuff has a negative effect somehow on women as well.

Unnaturally muscular women isn't a good look.

Manny, HGH (at least in females) is used mainly for body recomp, ie. to lower body fat %, while maintaining muscles, not to gain mass. I don't like most of the female competitive body-builders, i wouldn't want that looks for myself. Think of a fitness model look, or of competitors in 'bikini pro' category. They are lean, something like this: http://www.simplyshredded.com/ifbb-bikini-pro-fitness-model-noemi-olah-talks-with-simplyshredded-com.html (I like smaller arms than that.) Gals i am mentioning got from average to that in matter of months. OF COURSE, all train and diet, that goes without saying, but to have that figure without any chemistry is very difficult, unless you do only that (ie. obsess over diet, it's 100% clean, limited in calories + at least 8h of working out a week, preferably 10h, 5 of which heavy lifting  :duh: I work out at least 6h a week, mostly 8h; at least 3h of those is heavy lifting, the rest is metabolic training and HIIT - that's A LOT, i eat pretty clean and moderate, usually not more than 1500 cal, and i am nowhere near that body fat % )

edited to add: i found pics online of my on and off PT, she has the best body i've ever seen: http://soko-gym.com/coach-instructor/marija-micovic/

and here too (albeit it's not a nice pic, but you get an idea) https://www.facebook.com/183396598367039/photos/pb.183396598367039.-2207520000.1449358261./1091875684185788/?type=3&theater

She doesn't take anything synthetic, but her diet is something, she shared it with me - vegan, about 800 cal a day, one fast day a week, plus she trains 6 days a week, for couple of hours a day... That's what it takes, if you are going 100% natural route. (I am not that disciplined and can't possibly live in the gym.)

She needs food. Poor anorexic woman.




Those legs are slim, but definitely not anorexic!
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Offline Volshe

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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2015, 07:13:28 AM »

Those legs are slim, but definitely not anorexic!

True ;) She's at the lower end of the healthy BMI.

ETA: i believe most are familiar with Dave Fisher, as he became the poster boy of restricting; here's a longish and tad borish video about it, but the lecturer is a dr and explains it as it is:

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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2015, 12:50:29 PM »
Andrew, while we often disagree this is a good topic.  tiphat

It's a good topic!

(I know Americans think in pounds, but do they have stones?)

TomT is probably the man whose considered opinion we want on this topic.

Manny in New England we have stones we call them field potatoes and we build walls from them.

For those who have never met TomT he is about as thin as bamboo shoot. He dances (ball room) if I recall twice a week.

For the good order I had as a child a serious sickness and in a not so pleasant way am now facing the after effects. So after coming back from the Carpathians I wanted to start to exercise (jog) again but managed to roll a riding lawn mower over me. Some damaged ribs are the result of cushioning John Deere's finest.

My opinion about weight loss (having moved my weight up and down when sailing in an Olympic class) exercise an hour EACH DAY plus will burn more calories that you consume. Plus it can not hurt the heart.


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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2015, 01:06:14 PM »

For those who have never met TomT he is about as thin as bamboo shoot. He dances (ball room) if I recall twice a week.

Wow!

Quote
For the good order I had as a child a serious sickness and in a not so pleasant way am now facing the after effects. So after coming back from the Carpathians I wanted to start to exercise (jog) again but managed to roll a riding lawn mower over me. Some damaged ribs are the result of cushioning John Deere's finest.

Oy, vey...  :( Feel better asap, Av!!!

Quote
My opinion about weight loss (having moved my weight up and down when sailing in an Olympic class) exercise an hour EACH DAY plus will burn more calories that you consume. Plus it can not hurt the heart.

Now, that's impressive! (And, i agree with what you say  :))
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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #37 on: December 07, 2015, 03:07:18 AM »
Just had my third 'official' weigh in. I go once a week. I think this is a dead good idea because I see the same faces every time and we are all doing the same thing. It is a group effort and we owe it to each other to succeed.

So, over 14 days I have lost, in total, 4.5Kg (9.9lbs) but only 1.4Kg (2.5lbs) came from last week. My body is changing shape though, 4cm off my chest, 5cm off my waist and I am able to wear clothes that I have not worn for a couple of years, my belts all need extra holes as well.

Muscle mass seems to be pretty much unchanged, which is good - well, I'd like to increase it but at least my heart isn't eating itself!

I have noticed that there's a layer of muscle under my belly that was not there before, that's probably from the swimming as my arms have also improved.

So, pretty happy with progress thus far.
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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #38 on: December 07, 2015, 03:39:33 AM »
Awesome, Andy!!!

Just had my third 'official' weigh in. I go once a week. I think this is a dead good idea because I see the same faces every time and we are all doing the same thing. It is a group effort and we owe it to each other to succeed.

So, over 14 days I have lost, in total, 4.5Kg (9.9lbs) but only 1.4Kg (2.5lbs) came from last week.

That's great! First week we also loose water-weight, now the real stuff is coming off ;) Dr's always say to lose NOT more than 1.5 kg a week, that's crucial for long-term maintenance.

Quote
My body is changing shape though, 4cm off my chest, 5cm off my waist and I am able to wear clothes that I have not worn for a couple of years, my belts all need extra holes as well.
It's centimeters that matter the most!  :thumbsup:
Muscle mass seems to be pretty much unchanged, which is good - well, I'd like to increase it but at least my heart isn't eating itself!

I have noticed that there's a layer of muscle under my belly that was not there before, that's probably from the swimming as my arms have also improved.

So, pretty happy with progress thus far.

Great! As the fat tissue comes off, the muscles are going to be more and more visible.  :) Btw, when i am "bad", like i am now, around Hannukah, i tell myself i am "bulking", then when i go back to the norm, we'll call it cutting  :innocent: Anyway, there's some truth to it, consider yourself now to be officially  in the cutting phase! And, keep up the good work!
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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #39 on: December 07, 2015, 04:41:15 AM »
If I can keep up the current rate I will not be unhappy! That's nine months to my target zone and I'll be shedding almost a year's increase each week.
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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #40 on: December 07, 2015, 07:44:23 AM »
Good effort big boy! Well done and the enthusiasm's almost infectious.....

When you get results, you look and feel better. The motivation from that alone is good enough to start snowballing. You'll have weak moments but for me, that isn't a set back. You'll probably find that when you snack on something naughty, you eat way less than you would before and thats all part of the long game. Have your cheat meal then back on the road.

Keep it up!

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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #41 on: December 07, 2015, 08:11:59 AM »
Good effort big boy! Well done and the enthusiasm's almost infectious.....

When you get results, you look and feel better. The motivation from that alone is good enough to start snowballing.

Snowballing, hmmm!
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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2015, 08:21:59 AM »
Good effort big boy! Well done and the enthusiasm's almost infectious.....

When you get results, you look and feel better. The motivation from that alone is good enough to start snowballing.

Snowballing, hmmm!

Are you not thinking of tea bagging?

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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #43 on: December 07, 2015, 09:16:17 AM »
Good effort big boy! Well done and the enthusiasm's almost infectious.....

When you get results, you look and feel better. The motivation from that alone is good enough to start snowballing.

Snowballing, hmmm!

Are you not thinking of tea bagging?

No, snowballing, exchanging of sexual fluids by mouth. I prefer a pastie.
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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #44 on: December 07, 2015, 10:16:20 AM »
Ste, you are not yet married are you?
 
I think I understand why she is unwilling to make that commitment to you!  :hidechair:

Rosco, this is early days, it is a new toy. My enthusiasm will be tempered by time, I know that that's me. However, I just saved myself from having to spend too much money on this: CLICK HERE! Because I just grew back into my old and still immaculate one.

That's gonna pay for a metric shit tonne of Herbalife goodies!

I'm a couple of inches away from my last bespoke suit and dinner jacket. I may not manage that by Xmas/New Year when those will both be needed but I am hopeful - still have a fitting booked though. ;)

You can tell I don't wear this stuff much these days, eh?

What I am trying to do is to build some new habits. So, yes, I do still have 'treats' but I simply don't indulge myself at whim. But god, that's tough when one walks past the pancake kiosk and they're wafting the smell of the cooking batter across passersby! Also, my calorie budget usually has space for some empty calories like biscuits, but now, I do not put the biscuit tin near to me - I take a couple, put the tin away, and scoff 140 calories of carbohydrate with glee. I also use the Herbalife shakes as a snack, taking sips rather than gulping it down in one go.
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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #45 on: December 07, 2015, 05:43:02 PM »
Andrew,

Bear in mind it is one thing to get the weight and another thing to keep the weight off.

Curious are you going to at last enter into matrimony?

Av
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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2015, 02:01:46 PM »
Just had my third 'official' weigh in. I go once a week. I think this is a dead good idea because I see the same faces every time and we are all doing the same thing. It is a group effort and we owe it to each other to succeed.

So, over 14 days I have lost, in total, 4.5Kg (9.9lbs) but only 1.4Kg (2.5lbs) came from last week. My body is changing shape though, 4cm off my chest, 5cm off my waist and I am able to wear clothes that I have not worn for a couple of years, my belts all need extra holes as well.

Muscle mass seems to be pretty much unchanged, which is good - well, I'd like to increase it but at least my heart isn't eating itself!

I have noticed that there's a layer of muscle under my belly that was not there before, that's probably from the swimming as my arms have also improved.

So, pretty happy with progress thus far.

Well done Andrew! It's great that you have taken charge of your own health and well-being and got good results already; that's probably the most difficult part.  You deserve a lot of credit for that.  tiphat  I recommend [to anyone who hasn't seen it] the documentary: 'fat, sick and nearly dead'; the turnaround is amazing.   

I've been very lucky in that I've never really had to watch what I eat, as I have  a fast metabolism and did Muay Thai for 6 years when I was younger.  I can't handle such high impact training now but it's given me the discipline and desire to stay fit and healthy as I've got older.  I think it's great when you see people over 60 and even older still doing exercise and looking well.


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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2015, 06:20:12 AM »
Yes, keeping wight off is the next thing AFTER losing it. One bridge at a time, eh?

However what I am trying to do right now is build new habits. It is, of course, early days yet, but the habits thing seems consistently to be the pointer to look at.
I am also starting, as part of that process to consider calories in a similar manner to money. I have not seen this idea referenced elsewhere, but I am sure I didn't invent it!

However, what I have done is set a budget. That budget is 1500 calories per day, or 10,500 calories per week and, just as with a money budget, it is my responsibility to live within that budget. Just as with money, some of my budget is constrained (rent, utilities etc) in my diet that becomes proteins, carbs, fiber, vitamins. So, I must make sure that I balance my budget by getting the right types of foods in the right quantities and then I can also have 'disposable income' holidays, electronic toys, cars etc in money, but maybe Hagen Daaz ice cream, or a nice pastry, or as happened this morning an Egg Mcmuffin.

So, today, in calorie terms I have spent 730 calories of my budget on MickeyD's and my Herbalife breakfast and 770 to go which will be spent on one more Herbalife shake and a chicken Caesar salad.  That means that even with my 'treat' I will have stuck to my budget overall.

As I come to better remember the 'costs' of various options then I can be more flexible and adventurous.

The neat thing about Herbalife, in this context is that they are providing me with a large part of my dietary 'must haves' in terms of proteins, fiber, vitamins making it easier for me to budget the balance, the 'disposable income' if you like.

I don't intend to be a calorie counting queen. I have started to take pics of stuff I eat where I don't know the calories in the meal. Then I can estimate a value later on.

There's another thing that is not often talked about: we know that the less calories that go in the more fat you will eventually lose (within constraints related to overall health) So, we can calculate the expected empty stomach, empty bladder weight based upon the difference between the calorie intake and the body's calorie requirement. For example, we can know that the number of calories to maintain a normal body, without exercise other than normal movement and activity is about 12 calories per pound of body weight.

We also know that the generally accepted lower bound of 'safe' calorie cutting is about 8 calories per pound of body weight.
We also know that one pound of body weight takes about 3500 calories of calorie reduction.
With these numbers we can do some basic bookkeeping and understand what the rate of weight loss will be and what the lowest 'safe' calorie intake should be.
We can set our own budget and work out the expected profit and loss.
So, for me, I started out at 297lbs requiring about 3500 calories to maintain that weight, to not get fatter or thinner.
My 'safe' lower bound is about 2400 calories per day. That gives a deficit of 1100 calories per day, or 7700 calories per week and equates to just over 2lbs per week which is about the guideline number for long term weight loss programs.

People who are very overweight such as I are 'allowed' to go further and 1500 calories is suggested as a lower safe limit for an ongoing program. I chose to go with that number and, on the whole, I am keeping to the budget figure.
This gives a daily reduction of  2000 calories per day, or 14,000 per week or 4lbs.
Spookily, this is about what I am managing at the moment - actual loss is 10lbs, the difference attributable to exercise (swimming at least 4 times per week) and is what is to be expected for this level of activity. These estimates incorporating activity are a grey area because they represent the inaccurate and subjective reporting of the dieter and the opinion of the person devising the adjustments for activity. Basal consumption is pretty much a constant though.

So, with my basic bookkeeping I can not only make sure that I am eating well but I can also predict, pretty accurately what my weight loss will be on a weekly basis. I expect that my metabolism will start to mess the numbers up a little but in the end we are chemical machines, the chemical reactions are the same for all of us, and so, one way or another, the books will balance!

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You asked about marriage, that is not a part of this process. I do however have a helpmate in this journey, she is, as described above, into fitness and also works for a Herbalife distributor. She keeps me adequately incentivised. No matter how much she cares about me, unless she is pervy for fatties, which, while she genuinely DOES prefer blokes with some 'coverage' she isn't and so wants to see me with less coverage than at present.

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Krassavchick, thanks. I should've done this years ago. One thing though, that metabolism is going to slow down at some point. It'll get harder. ;)
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline Maxx

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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2015, 07:20:02 AM »

I have that saved in my files all the way down to ============ under "Andrew's advice on basic calorie consumption"

Getting my own place with a kitchen and panty is my number one goal for my future weight loss.

Online andrewfi

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Re: Losing Weight: Reversing 38 Years Of Slow Growth
« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2015, 07:37:17 AM »
I hope it is helpful.

Yes, hard to control intake when can not be in control of the inputs.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!


 

 

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