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Author Topic: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia  (Read 4032 times)

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Online msmoby

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2015, 01:47:02 AM »
Moby, you said:

Quote
As you know Russians cannot go where they want

This is untrue.

What you later submitted as proof is that people in certain jobs are unable to travel abroad. If they are unhappy with this, one assumes they can get a different job with a different security risk.

You may have been correct to say: "As you know, some Russians cannot go where they want due to occupational security restrictions".

Sighs, yes... I should have been more clear....We both know that Russia being top heavy on the Public sector front means this excludes a lot - probably the majority of Russian families. Many US citizens travel to Cuba as Tourists via third nations

Your attempt to make the US seem the sole 'controlling' state - esp as US citizens can visit family in Cuba and there's no restrictions on usage of US bank cars whilst there means you simply highlighted that the Russian govt is more controlling
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Offline Manny

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2015, 09:44:19 AM »
You may have been correct to say: "As you know, some Russians cannot go where they want due to occupational security restrictions".

yes... I should have been more clear....

There you go.
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Online yankee

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2015, 09:58:46 AM »

You may have been correct to say: "As you know, some Russians cannot go where they want due to occupational security restrictions".

This can also be said of the USA.  My mother's very close friend was not allowed to leave the USA.  If he was granted permission to leave he required body guards and could not fly over certain countries.

There are many restrictions for thoes that have (or had) various clearances.

What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?


Online Steveboy

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2015, 01:08:39 PM »

As you know Russians cannot go where they want

By this, I assume you are saying they are banned from some places like Americans are with Cuba? Enlighten us, where cant Russians go?

This should help..

http://barentsobserver.com/en/security/2014/05/russia-bans-police-emergency-and-military-employees-traveling-abroad-13-05


A British policemen - I checked - is free to go where he likes - having checked the Foreign and Commonwealth advisory info... a Russian DPS guy who might direct traffic is NOT allowed to travel  to many nations.

Here's a list of nations that signed extraditions treaties - it's a long one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_extradition_treaties

I'm guessing Cuba and Venezuela's aren't being enforced  - but if US /Cuba relations continue improving ...



On top of this it is now policy to 'suggest' that if you work for other  govt. departments - NOT - to take holidays abroad - in nations with these extradition agreements.


https://www.rt.com/politics/161992-russian-judges-extradition-vacation/

This even extended to a municipal planning office - Someone we know had to cancel her plans to holiday in Turkey .

I hope you are suitably enlightened.

BTW. I think stopping people at the airport for non payment of taxes, child support and cancelling of driving licences / permits is a great idea ...

If you spent as much time on looking into your visa application for your other half as you do on here along with all the detailed investigations you make, maybe she would have a visa now?
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Online andrewfi

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2015, 01:23:06 PM »
So, we understand then the 'visa' thing is bunkum and that moby is the most bored little man in the world.

I bet socialising with him must be the mooooost tedious thing in the world, well ahead of watching grass grow. And notice, again, how he absolutely can not ever be wrong about anything - it is always somebody else, or some detail that renders him 'correct' and the rest of us just intellectual insects compared to his 'mobyness'.
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Offline GuppyCaptain

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2015, 06:42:07 PM »

You may have been correct to say: "As you know, some Russians cannot go where they want due to occupational security restrictions".

This can also be said of the USA.  My mother's very close friend was not allowed to leave the USA.  If he was granted permission to leave he required body guards and could not fly over certain countries.

There are many restrictions for thoes that have (or had) various clearances.

Your mother's very close friend is obviously not the average Joe Schmoe or Vlad or Yuritchka. I don't think her example can be used to represent the travel liberties or lack thereof of 'Mericans and Russians.

Offline GuppyCaptain

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2015, 07:02:16 PM »
In this case, you need permission from your government to even LEAVE the country. That's a drastic difference and one that can easily be exploited and abused by Putin and his clan or whomever his successor is.
No, this is simply red tape for profitable exploitation, if the government wants to keep you in the country they can simply deny to issue your passport and revoke the one you have.

Mark

Oh for crying out loud. It's another step/measure that can be abused for less that benevolent reasons.

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Offline cdnexpat

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #32 on: November 15, 2015, 10:28:47 AM »
Any. You can leave but you can't come back.

If you don't have proper id they wont let you pass.

It may happen.
When we left Toronto for Moscow last month, our passports were never checked. The e-ticket was a return flight, so they did not bother at registration to check for valid visa where we were going. No stamps in the passport either, when you leave Canada. My wife was truly amazed. In Tashkent, you must show your passport 7 times when leaving the country.

Offline cdnexpat

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #33 on: November 15, 2015, 10:45:14 AM »
I worked with diplomats from a few countries, who had travel restrictions. First, the family had to stay behind, and then, they had to request specific clearances for visits.

I think the exit visa are a relic from soviet times. They still use them in the stans. Here, residents can get two types. One is for FSU countries, and the other, for all the countries in the world. This is another bureaucratic nonsense administered by OVIR.

Online yankee

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2015, 10:47:45 AM »
I worked with diplomats from a few countries, who had travel restrictions. First, the family had to stay behind, and then, they had to request specific clearances for visits.

I think the exit visa are a relic from soviet times. They still use them in the stans. Here, residents can get two types. One is for FSU countries, and the other, for all the countries in the world. This is another bureaucratic nonsense administered by OVIR.

If you have a work visa in Indonesia one needed an exit visa,  back in the 1980s it cost about $200.

What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?

Offline GuppyCaptain

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #35 on: November 15, 2015, 12:25:29 PM »
Any. You can leave but you can't come back.

If you don't have proper id they wont let you pass.

ID or passport? They are two different things. You can leave the US without a passport. Re-entry is a different matter.

Case in point.......As airline flight crew, I ALWAYS depart for an international layover without having my passport checked and ALWAYS have it checked upon re-entry.

Online yankee

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #36 on: November 15, 2015, 12:29:28 PM »
Any. You can leave but you can't come back.

If you don't have proper id they wont let you pass.

ID or passport? They are two different things. You can leave the US without a passport. Re-entry is a different matter.

Case in point.......As airline flight crew, I ALWAYS depart for an international layover without having my passport checked and ALWAYS have it checked upon re-entry.

Looks like they treat air crew differently.  Hope you never foreget to take your passport with you
What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?

Offline Manny

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #37 on: November 15, 2015, 02:03:59 PM »
When we left Toronto for Moscow last month, our passports were never checked. The e-ticket was a return flight, so they did not bother at registration to check for valid visa where we were going. No stamps in the passport either, when you leave Canada. My wife was truly amazed.

Same last time we left the US.

I was really surprised. One thinks of the US as a place where security is really stringent. It should be on UK/EU bound fights especially. But we drifted out with not even a passport check. At first, I thought I had wandered down the wrong aisle in error........
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Online andrewfi

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #38 on: November 15, 2015, 03:15:10 PM »
I worked with diplomats from a few countries, who had travel restrictions. First, the family had to stay behind, and then, they had to request specific clearances for visits.

I think the exit visa are a relic from soviet times. They still use them in the stans. Here, residents can get two types. One is for FSU countries, and the other, for all the countries in the world. This is another bureaucratic nonsense administered by OVIR.

There is no exit visa.
There was a proposal for a possible document, among several options, the purpose being to have a way to inform travelers about specif risks incurred by traveling to certain places. Specifically excluded from the possible proposal was any option to stop people from traveling. In truth 'exit visa' would seem to have been a less than optimal choice of name for a document that is no more than a way for the state to be sure that the citizen knows the risks of traveling to certain destinations.
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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #39 on: November 15, 2015, 03:15:47 PM »
Any. You can leave but you can't come back.

If you don't have proper id they wont let you pass.

ID or passport? They are two different things. You can leave the US without a passport. Re-entry is a different matter.

Case in point.......As airline flight crew, I ALWAYS depart for an international layover without having my passport checked and ALWAYS have it checked upon re-entry.
In most of Europe, your passport is checked upon leaving the country, aircrew included. I noticed that Aircrew lost some privileges last summer, they were waiting in line with the passangers.
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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #40 on: November 15, 2015, 03:17:13 PM »
No, this is simply red tape for profitable exploitation, if the government wants to keep you in the country they can simply deny to issue your passport and revoke the one you have.

Mark

Oh for crying out loud. It's another step/measure that can be abused for less that benevolent reasons.
How? If your passport is revoked , you can't leave shengen, I was surprised to learn you can actually exit the USA without passport.
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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #41 on: November 15, 2015, 05:59:32 PM »
No, this is simply red tape for profitable exploitation, if the government wants to keep you in the country they can simply deny to issue your passport and revoke the one you have.

Mark

Oh for crying out loud. It's another step/measure that can be abused for less that benevolent reasons.
How? If your passport is revoked , you can't leave shengen, I was surprised to learn you can actually exit the USA without passport.

Only partially true, you need an document that allows you to board an airplane that is either flying to Mexico or Canada. Elsewhere only a blue booklet will work for boarding an international flight.

Bear in mind the airline is responsible for any return costs should they allow you to fly without documents.
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Offline GuppyCaptain

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #42 on: November 15, 2015, 08:11:56 PM »
Any. You can leave but you can't come back.

If you don't have proper id they wont let you pass.

ID or passport? They are two different things. You can leave the US without a passport. Re-entry is a different matter.

Case in point.......As airline flight crew, I ALWAYS depart for an international layover without having my passport checked and ALWAYS have it checked upon re-entry.

Looks like they treat air crew differently.  Hope you never foreget to take your passport with you

They'd still let me back in (as they would a regular passenger as well). It would just be a pain in the ass. If you have a smartphone always have a screenshot of your passport or a photocopy if you don't. It's a starting point if you lose it.

Online msmoby

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #43 on: November 16, 2015, 04:12:55 AM »

How? If your passport is revoked , you can't leave shengen, I was surprised to learn you can actually exit the USA without passport.

Many Schengen nations have id cards - I could fly with CY id - no passport necessary to the UK/Ireland
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Offline Annushka

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2015, 07:12:07 PM »
Boys, you are not tired to discuss the fakes from the Internet? ;D

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2015, 12:46:15 AM »

How? If your passport is revoked , you can't leave shengen, I was surprised to learn you can actually exit the USA without passport.

Many Schengen nations have id cards - I could fly with CY id - no passport necessary to the UK/Ireland
Whats your point? you still can't leave shengen without a passport.

Many refugees travel freely within shengen with 0 identification, including the UK.
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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2015, 02:21:24 AM »
I could enter and leave Schengen nations with an ID card..that is my point...no passport

.

You won’t make every topic about you. Think of it like containing a virus: you can’t have it infecting everywhere.

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline Manny

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2015, 04:31:12 PM »
Many refugees travel freely within shengen with 0 identification, including the UK.

Can you clarify that please, Mark?
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Online Markje

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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #48 on: November 20, 2015, 12:51:31 AM »
Many refugees travel freely within shengen with 0 identification, including the UK.

Can you clarify that please, Mark?

Sure, why else would tons of refugees be piling up at Calais, its the most clear proof we have.

1) How did they get there?
Because no border controls are active between shengen states. Once they are in, they can travel freely to Calais.
2) Why do they still go there?
Because Britains are not sending them back, if they saw people getting back as fast as they risk their lives going to the UK, they would not still be there, trying to get in.
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Re: Russians may soon need a Visa to exit Russia
« Reply #49 on: November 20, 2015, 01:30:39 AM »
Markje,

You'll note I asked Manny for the ratio of successful UK Political Asylum applications v Refusals - I did not see a response - yet.

So, where do you get this idea that the British do not repatriate  ?

As you may know non possession of ID makes it hard to repatriate - if already in the UK -  and it also makes it hard to prove one's nationality / case for P.A - if entering - which is difficult at places like Calais

It's pretty hard to board a plane / ship to the UK without a passport / visa / id as appropriate - so - as the numbers getting through the tunnel are not that great - surely the case is moot  ?

You won’t make every topic about you. Think of it like containing a virus: you can’t have it infecting everywhere.

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic