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Author Topic: Crimean Tatars  (Read 3079 times)

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Online Markje

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Crimean Tatars
« on: September 12, 2015, 03:16:40 AM »
Quote

The Crimean Tatars will start to blockade the roads to stop the trade. Ukrainians should be aware that it is immoral to have dealings with the aggressor, Refat Chubarov said.

Ah , the Crimean Tatar leader who was booted from Crimea by the Russians for starting Riots (even in the Pre-Russian era) and who was denied a visa so he should stay in Ukraine. They dropped him off neatly at the Crimean/Ukrainian border.

According to Posters here he's lucky to be alive, as Crimean Tatars got murdered regularly, especially Tatar thought leaders.

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Online andrewfi

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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2015, 05:02:24 AM »
I love the use of 'the' in respect of " the leader of Crimean Tatars". Always when a bloke pops up who is useful for a new facet of a narrative he becomes 'the' rather than 'a'.

Although he is styled President of the Worldwide Congress of Crimean Tatars he does not in fact represent all or even most Tatars in Crimea.

Seems kind alike I could style myself Emperor of the Universal Nation Of Fi In Estonia. I'd represent nothing and the title would be meaningless, except when rolled out for agitprop purposes by my handlers.

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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2015, 09:08:01 AM »

Although he is styled President of the Worldwide Congress of Crimean Tatars he does not in fact represent all or even most Tatars in Crimea.
He does not represent the Crimean Tatars, only the Tatars that are unhappy with "the" government, doesnt matter who, Russia, Ukraine, etc... as long as its not a "crimean tatar" government which will never happen.
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Online andrewfi

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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2015, 01:03:25 PM »
Exactly, yes.

The odd thing is that he is now such a willing tool of the Ukraine government, the same people who were responsible for some fairly unpleasant stuff against the Tatars in Crimea over the past 25 years. He is a bought and paid for tool.
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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2015, 07:49:40 PM »
Must have been a seedy bunch of characters that did this. :chuckle:
Armed Russian farmers pillage Donbas farmers

http://zik.ua/en/news/2015/09/13/armed_russian_farmers_pillage_donbas_farmers_624019
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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2015, 12:05:17 AM »

He does not represent the Crimean Tatars, only the Tatars that are unhappy with "the" government, doesnt matter who, Russia, Ukraine, etc... as long as its not a "crimean tatar" government which will never happen.

Never say never, Markje... If the offspring of the forcibly displaced Tatars of Crimea even got together and moved back and called for another 'referendum' ....


I'd be really interested to know about Andrewfi's  Tatars who were 'oppressed' under Ukrainian rule....backed up with solid evidence in the form of a reputable source - like a respected Human Rights organisation
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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2015, 03:09:39 AM »

He does not represent the Crimean Tatars, only the Tatars that are unhappy with "the" government, doesnt matter who, Russia, Ukraine, etc... as long as its not a "crimean tatar" government which will never happen.

Never say never, Markje... If the offspring of the forcibly displaced Tatars of Crimea even got together and moved back and called for another 'referendum' ....
They already did, over the last 20 years.

Quote
I'd be really interested to know about Andrewfi's  Tatars who were 'oppressed' under Ukrainian rule....backed up with solid evidence in the form of a reputable source - like a respected Human Rights organisation
Thats easy, just look for articles on Crimea before Russia took over.

Tatars aren't liked in Crimea, never were and in fact, their situation got better since now Tatar is an official language in Crimea and government documents will be issued in Tatar language.

Tatars got a huge boon from Putin in many ways, but the local Population still shuns them like Western-Europe shuns the roma-gypsies.

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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2015, 08:49:14 AM »
Markje... it is a little sad when the planted ones treat those that were there first with such contempt... but this is not unique to Crimea.

I did look for evidence of oppressed Tatars before the 'change' .... google throws up plenty of negatives post March 2014.

I am certain that you are correct..in that there were instances .. but I also feel that you are underplaying the dismay and worry felt, now.



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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2015, 08:55:48 AM »
Markje... it is a little sad when the planted ones treat those that were there first with such contempt... but this is not unique to Crimea.
Thats because of WW-II when they behaved like animals raping, pillaging and being very 'unfriendly' to the other part of the population. When WW-II ended, they had to be deported to avoid being lynched on the spot.

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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2015, 09:38:36 AM »
https://twitter.com/den_kazansky/status/643482566717276160

The DUB who tweeted this expects his audience to believe that a separatist ammunition truck exploded and didn't leave any truck parts strewn about the area. (The crater shown in the image is more likely from an incoming artillery shell from the government side.)
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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2015, 05:12:30 PM »
Seems Putin wants the rebels to go to Syria.

Rebels jumping ship on large scale, media reports say

http://zik.ua/en/news/2015/09/18/rebels_jumping_ship_on_large_scale_media_reports_say_625540
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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2015, 09:55:25 AM »
First the separatists and now regular troops refusing to go to Syria. :coffeeread:


Russian servicemen refuse to go to Syria, threatened with state treason

http://zik.ua/en/news/2015/09/20/russian_servicemen_refuse_to_go_to_syria_threatened_with_state_treason_626028
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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2015, 05:36:03 PM »
Someone needs to get their stories straight.
Two articles saying soldiers won't go to Syria.
Now 200 will be on their way. :chuckle:

200 Russian mercenaries to be deployed to Syria from Donbas

The ‘DON’ battalion of Russian mercenaries in Donbas has been given orders to send 190 of its servicemen to Russia, Dmytro Tymchuk, a well-informed journalists and Rada lawmaker, writes in Facebook Sept. 21.

From Russia, the group will be sent to Syria, he says. “Only some commanding officers and a group of snipers will remain in Donbas,” Tymchuk writeshttp://zik.ua/en/news/2015/09/21/200_russian_mercenaries_to_be_deployed_to_syria_from_donbas_626214
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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2015, 03:31:16 AM »

Markje... it is a little sad when the planted ones treat those that were there first with such contempt... but this is not unique to Crimea.

Thats because of WW-II when they behaved like animals raping, pillaging and being very 'unfriendly' to the other part of the population. When WW-II ended, they had to be deported to avoid being lynched on the spot.

Markje,

I just noticed that this post of yours seemingly had gone uncontested

Explain for us how 8 hero of the Soviet Union Medals were handed out to Crimean Tatars and Russia condemned Stalin's act  - pointing out that the vast majority of Tatars had found against the Nazis - despite Slav freedom fighters refusing to let them join.

Sadly, history shows us that even then - certain influential Slav 'heroes' were prepared to use the indigenous people for their own ends against the Nazi occupiers. YES, some Tatars sided with the Nazis against the 'long term occupier' from Moscow. But that was a tiny minority.


Please research Amet-khan Sultan or the antics of Slav freedom fighters
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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2015, 04:45:51 AM »

Markje... it is a little sad when the planted ones treat those that were there first with such contempt... but this is not unique to Crimea.

Thats because of WW-II when they behaved like animals raping, pillaging and being very 'unfriendly' to the other part of the population. When WW-II ended, they had to be deported to avoid being lynched on the spot.

Markje,

I just noticed that this post of yours seemingly had gone uncontested
Why must the truth always be contested with you?
Is there some personal agenda here, to always want to 'win' ?

So:

Quote
Explain for us how 8 hero of the Soviet Union Medals were handed out to Crimean Tatars
Like I said, 10% DID fight for the Russians. (see upthread for my original comment on this)

Quote
and Russia condemned Stalin's act
So what was Stalin to do, allow all Tatars be elimitated? That would have gotten some unwanted attention.

Also the NKVD exported ALL tatars in just 1 day, doesn't that sound like an 'urgent' problem to you? A whole population of nearly 1,000,000 people re-based in 1 day. thats speed for you!

If it was done out of spite, or malice, or whatever other reason you can think up , I doubt the NKVD would have such cooperation that this feat would be done in 1 day only, but keep on dreaming your dreams about tatar injustice, Is SC a tatar by any chance?

Quote
  - pointing out that the vast majority of Tatars had found against the Nazis - despite Slav freedom fighters refusing to let them join.
I would rather also not have people fighting beside me that would also like to shoot me in the back when I am caught off-guard. Sane decision, and since 90% of them did join the Nazi's , it was a wise choice. The tatars could have decided to fight alone against the Nazi's.

Quote
Sadly, history shows us that even then - certain influential Slav 'heroes' were prepared to use the indigenous people for their own ends against the Nazi occupiers. YES, some Tatars sided with the Nazis against the 'long term occupier' from Moscow. But that was a tiny minority.
If you call 90% a tiny minority that is your prerogative, I'd call it 'almost all'.

Quote
Please research Amet-khan Sultan or the antics of Slav freedom fighters
No. I have read the western propaganda of 2012 , and they seem unanimous on the misbehaving Tatars in WW-2 , but the 2014+ propaganda seems to have buried this.

Luckily I have babushka, who lives there and knows first-hand how the Tatars 'helped' the Slavs defeat the nazi's.

She still looks at the Tatars the same as my uncle who 'helps' germans park their car (which end up damaged almost always if they aren't paying attention to what my uncle is doing).

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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2015, 05:54:07 AM »



Why must the truth always be contested with you?

Let me think... how to put it delicately..

Your 'truth' was largely 'bollox'!  If you post biased, one-sided versions of 'history', expect to be challenged.



Is there some personal agenda here, to always want to 'win' ?

See above... I wonder at your inability to see all sides.   

Once again,  I come from a place were I was indocrinated from childhood that the 'planted ones' were the good guys.

Much later in life, my eyes were opened to question the parts of my 'history' had omitted.



Like I said, 10% DID fight for the Russians. (see upthread for my original comment on this)



Markje, I seriously recommend you check all sources as your 10 percent is a joke.. Even the Kremlin conceded the treatment and ethnic cleansing of the Tatars ...remember many were deported in the thirties...was wrong..and the basis for their removal was pure propaganda.


So what was Stalin to do, allow all Tatars be elimitated? That would have gotten some unwanted attention.

Markje, if you are saying they were death marched for their own 'protection', you are deranged.


Also the NKVD exported ALL tatars in just 1 day, doesn't that sound like an 'urgent' problem to you? A whole population of nearly 1,000,000 people re-based in 1 day. thats speed for you!

If it was done out of spite, or malice, or whatever other reason you can think up , I doubt the NKVD would have such cooperation that this feat would be done in 1 day only, but keep on dreaming your dreams about tatar injustice, Is SC a tatar by any chance?


Markje, most Jews willingly got on trains...

S.C is apolitical and her Uzbek Dad lost his legs just outside Berlin ..fighting with the Red army. He was 56 when she was born..You are barking up the wrong tree.



 
I would rather also not have people fighting beside me that would also like to shoot me in the back when I am caught off-guard. Sane decision, and since 90% of them did join the Nazi's , it was a wise choice. The tatars could have decided to fight alone against the Nazi's.


I cannot believe you are capable of such posts. War makes for strange alliances and enemies, but setting up the indigenous population to be killed by Nazis is a low trick.

I am glad Britain wasn't occupied lest we my see more of your uncles..




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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2015, 08:05:38 AM »



Why must the truth always be contested with you?

Let me think... how to put it delicately..

Your 'truth' was largely 'bollox'!  If you post biased, one-sided versions of 'history', expect to be challenged.
Only 70 Years ago and the truth is already forgotten such as that its being challanged. Sad.

Quote
See above... I wonder at your inability to see all sides.   
I am seeing all sides, you apparently only see the pro-western propaganda of 'alledged' nazi-collaborators , whereas I spoke to eye-witnesses who lived through the whole ordeal. The word 'alledged' is because history is slowly being changed. First it was written in stone, then it became alledged and soon it will become falsely accused .etc. Don't fall for those tricks.

Quote
Once again,  I come from a place were I was indocrinated from childhood that the 'planted ones' were the good guys.

Much later in life, my eyes were opened to question the parts of my 'history' had omitted.
In this case, your history misleads you. The planted ones may have been at fault at first, but much, much , much later, in WW-2 the shoe was on the other foot and the tatars behaved like animals.

Quote

Like I said, 10% DID fight for the Russians. (see upthread for my original comment on this)



Markje, I seriously recommend you check all sources as your 10 percent is a joke..
I checked the only sources that count, the ones with accurate information, as the internet-sources tend to fluctuate depending on the powers-that-be-in-charge. If you look at the wikipedia-pages from 2012 about tatars compared to 2014 (same page) you will see what I mean.


Quote
So what was Stalin to do, allow all Tatars be elimitated? That would have gotten some unwanted attention.

Markje, if you are saying they were death marched for their own 'protection', you are deranged.
I am not deranged, thats exactly how it was, ask any 80+ person in Crimea.


Quote
Also the NKVD exported ALL tatars in just 1 day, doesn't that sound like an 'urgent' problem to you? A whole population of nearly 1,000,000 people re-based in 1 day. thats speed for you!

If it was done out of spite, or malice, or whatever other reason you can think up , I doubt the NKVD would have such cooperation that this feat would be done in 1 day only, but keep on dreaming your dreams about tatar injustice, Is SC a tatar by any chance?


Markje, most Jews willingly got on trains...
And this is related to the Tatars deportation how? I am talking about willingly, knowingly sending people off to prevent them from being killed. You are talking about getting on trains under gunpoint to send them to death. If most administrators in Germany knew what would happen to the jews on the train, I doubt the process would go fast. Which is exactly what happened. Jews were murdered 4 years long ,whereas the tatars relocation was 1 day.

Quote
I would rather also not have people fighting beside me that would also like to shoot me in the back when I am caught off-guard. Sane decision, and since 90% of them did join the Nazi's , it was a wise choice. The tatars could have decided to fight alone against the Nazi's.


I cannot believe you are capable of such posts. War makes for strange alliances and enemies, but setting up the indigenous population to be killed by Nazis is a low trick.

I am glad Britain wasn't occupied lest we my see more of your uncles..
.
English still isn't my first language, let me rephrase that for you:

I would rather also not have Tatars fighting beside me that would also like to shoot me in the back when I am caught off-guard. Sane decision, and since 90% of them did join the Nazi's , it was a wise choice. The tatars could have decided to fight alone against the Nazi's.

Also some reading to do for you:

Quote from: russian.library.archives
Meanwhile, Crimean Tatars marched in pro-Maidan demonstrations while chanting the slogans of Ukrainian neo-nazis accompanied by lusty howls of "Allah Akbar!"  This hearkens back to the widespread Crimean Tatar collaboration with the Nazi invaders when their religious and secular leadership praised the "holy war of the Germans". Wehrmacht Gen. Erich von Manstein testified to the Crimean Tatars' pro-Nazi zeal in his memoirs:
Quote from: Generahl Erich von Manstein
"The Tatars immediately took our side. They saw in us our liberators from the     Bolshevik yoke, especially since we respected their religious customs. A Tatar     delegation came to me, bringing fruits and beautiful handmade embroideries for "Adolf Effendi", the liberator of the Tatars."

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Offline msmoby

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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2015, 09:39:03 AM »

Only 70 Years ago and the truth is already forgotten such as that its being challanged. Sad.

'sad' is that despite the reassuring promises and past examples of ethnic unpleasantness the Slavs of Crimea are treating the indigenous population as second class citizens - but you refuse to see it - and have even 'excused' it.

I am seeing all sides, you apparently only see the pro-western propaganda of 'alledged' nazi-collaborators , whereas I spoke to eye-witnesses who lived through the whole ordeal. The word 'alledged' is because history is slowly being changed. First it was written in stone, then it became alledged and soon it will become falsely accused .etc. Don't fall for those tricks.

Markje, you'll excuse me, but I have seen the attitude of SOME Slavic planted ones in Crimea and see very little to dissuade me that your version of 'history' is at best one-sided. That you might try to claim ethnically cleansing Tatars from their homeland as doing them a favour is risible


Your history misleads you. The planted ones may have been at fault at first, but much, much , much later, in WW-2 the shoe was on the other foot and the tatars behaved like animals.

Whilst I do not dispute the fact that not a few Tatars were complicit in helping the occupiers - the figure was greatly exaggerated - backed up by admissions of wrong doing by later Soviet and Russian administrations. This is why they are still demonstrating they preferred life under Ukrainian administration - however uncomfortable that must be for you to accept. 


Quote from: Markje

Like I said, 10% DID fight for the Russians. (see upthread for my original comment on this)


Quote from: msmoby
Markje, I seriously recommend you check all sources as your 10 percent is a joke..

I checked the only sources that count, the ones with accurate information, as the internet-sources tend to fluctuate depending on the powers-that-be-in-charge. If you look at the wikipedia-pages from 2012 about tatars compared to 2014 (same page) you will see what I mean.

Markje, it took me seconds to find this from 2004....

http://www.iccrimea.org/surgun/pohl-asn-2004.html

Some excerpts

It was way back in '67  Supreme Soviet issued decree 493 “On Citizens of Tatar Nationality Formerly Living in Crimea.” This decree recognized that the charge of treason against the entire Crimean Tatar population had no factual basis. It admitted that the Soviet regime had wrongly accused the entire population of collaboration with the Germans on the basis of the actions of only a part of the population. ''

I seriously doubt that if 90 percent had been collaborators - that such a decree would have been issued.


''The decree thus resolved to annul the charges of treason and collaboration levelled against the Crimean Tatars in 1944''

Since then they were campaigning for restoration of property wrongfully seized ....

''The Crimean Tatars also attracted the attention of the Soviet Union’s most famous dissident. During the 1970s, Andrei Sakharov appealed to both the United Nations and Soviet leadership on behalf of the Crimean Tatars several times.  In January 1974, Sakharov sent an appeal to UN Secretary General Kurt Waldheim asking him to provide UN support for the Crimean Tatar struggle to return to their homeland.[83] On 4 July 1978 and 31 January 1979, Sakharov sent letters to Brezhnev protesting continued discrimination against the Crimean Tatars.[84] In March 1979, he passed a letter from the Crimean Tatars to the French Embassy to give to President Giscard d’Estaing during his upcoming visit to the USSR.[85]  Along with the denial of the right to emigrate to Jews and Germans, Sakharov considered the Soviet government’s policy towards the Crimean Tatars to be among the USSR’s greatest civil rights problems.''

So much for your 'western' propaganda...


So what was Stalin to do, allow all Tatars be elimitated? That would have gotten some unwanted attention.

Quote from: moby
Markje, if you are saying they were death marched for their own 'protection', you are deranged.

I am not deranged, thats exactly how it was, ask any 80+ person in Crimea.



That's akin to asking 100 people on the Shankhill Road in Belfast if they they are in favour of a united Ireland - the answer will not be representative - please deal with the fact that the Slavs of Crimea are in denial.

 
Also the NKVD exported ALL tatars in just 1 day, doesn't that sound like an 'urgent' problem to you? A whole population of nearly 1,000,000 people re-based in 1 day. thats speed for you!

If it was done out of spite, or malice, or whatever other reason you can think up , I doubt the NKVD would have such cooperation that this feat would be done in 1 day only, but keep on dreaming your dreams about tatar injustice, Is SC a tatar by any chance?


Quote from: msmoby

Markje, most Jews willingly got on trains...

And this is related to the Tatars deportation how? I am talking about willingly, knowingly sending people off to prevent them from being killed. You are talking about getting on trains under gunpoint to send them to death. If most administrators in Germany knew what would happen to the jews on the train, I doubt the process would go fast. Which is exactly what happened. Jews were murdered 4 years long ,whereas the tatars relocation was 1 day.

Markje, the parallels are clear - forced ethnic cleansing - just relying on nature to take it's toll.  Do you think the Crimean Tatars passed on their love for their homeland and 'forgot' this 'fear' that must have had them running for an exit  ? You insult yourself be accepting such drivel.


I would rather also not have people fighting beside me that would also like to shoot me in the back when I am caught off-guard. Sane decision, and since 90% of them did join the Nazi's , it was a wise choice. The tatars could have decided to fight alone against the Nazi's.


Quote from: moby

I cannot believe you are capable of such posts. War makes for strange alliances and enemies, but setting up the indigenous population to be killed by Nazis is a low trick.

I am glad Britain wasn't occupied lest we my see more of your uncles..


English still isn't my first language, let me rephrase that for you:

I would rather also not have Tatars fighting beside me that would also like to shoot me in the back when I am caught off-guard. Sane decision, and since 90% of them did join the Nazi's , it was a wise choice. The tatars could have decided to fight alone against the Nazi's.

Also some reading to do for you:

"russian.library.archives"
Meanwhile, Crimean Tatars marched in pro-Maidan demonstrations while chanting the slogans of Ukrainian neo-nazis accompanied by lusty howls of "Allah Akbar!"  This hearkens back to the widespread Crimean Tatar collaboration with the Nazi invaders when their religious and secular leadership praised the "holy war of the Germans". Wehrmacht Gen. Erich von Manstein testified to the Crimean Tatars' pro-Nazi zeal in his memoirs:
Generahl Erich von Manstein
"The Tatars immediately took our side. They saw in us our liberators from the     Bolshevik yoke, especially since we respected their religious customs. A Tatar     delegation came to me, bringing fruits and beautiful handmade embroideries for "Adolf Effendi", the liberator of the Tatars."


I conceded SOME Tatars regarding the enemy of the Soviet Union as a 'friend'.  You need to understand that successive Soviet and Russian leaders admit what you cannot - but returning Tatars in the late eighties and nineties have not had their properties returned - they were given to Slavs.

It is also true that anti Russian factions will unite against the military coup in Crimea - supported by planted Slavs who regard the indigenous people as an inconvenience and I wonder that you could be surprised that they doubted the 'referendum' result.

Once again, the majority got to be the majority by making sure the indigenous people were removed and oppressed.

Your 'stats' are not backed up by numerous admissions of 'regret' but little action on the behalf of Moscow to right the wrong.

I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Online AvHdB

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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2015, 08:06:40 PM »
Perhaps this thread should retitled and other matters related to Tartar's and the Krim be moved into one cohesive thread.

In fact it is interesting stuff.
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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2015, 12:04:46 AM »
Perhaps this thread should retitled and other matters related to Tartar's and the Krim be moved into one cohesive thread.

In fact it is interesting stuff.

Agreed Done.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<<

Let's see how this post ages:

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Re: Crimean Tatars
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2015, 01:24:15 AM »

Only 70 Years ago and the truth is already forgotten such as that its being challanged. Sad.

'sad' is that despite the reassuring promises and past examples of ethnic unpleasantness the Slavs of Crimea are treating the indigenous population as second class citizens - but you refuse to see it - and have even 'excused' it.
I do not say i excuse it, I just say I understand where its coming from. Thats a huge difference.
You also have to differentiate between 'people on the street' [treating crimean tatars like second class citizens] and putin's administration [going miles out of their league to help the Tatars]

Quote
Markje, you'll excuse me, but I have seen the attitude of SOME Slavic planted ones in Crimea and see very little to dissuade me that your version of 'history' is at best one-sided. That you might try to claim ethnically cleansing Tatars from their homeland as doing them a favour is risible
Yet thats exactly how it was. Again: ask any 80+ folk in crimea about it who is not Tatar.

I did ask about Crimea's history with Crimean babushkas sunbathing on the beach there, together with a German guy who spoke good Russian as my Russian is still under development. Only problem was going home later, as they were glad to talk to us and didn't want to stop.

Quote
Quote from: msmoby
Markje, I seriously recommend you check all sources as your 10 percent is a joke..
Moby,  I seriously recommend you check all sources as your figure (unspecified) is a joke..

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http://www.iccrimea.org/surgun/pohl-asn-2004.html

Some excerpts
[snip exerts]
So much for your 'western' propaganda...
Would've truly destroyed my case .... except ..... iccrimea.org is a western propaganda website, didn't you check the 'about us' page ?
Quote from: iccrimea.org
   

International Committee for Crimea

ICC, P.O. Box 15078, Washington, DC 20003.


Quote
If it was done out of spite, or malice, or whatever other reason you can think up , I doubt the NKVD would have such cooperation that this feat would be done in 1 day only, but keep on dreaming your dreams about tatar injustice.
Markje, the parallels are clear - forced ethnic cleansing - just relying on nature to take it's toll.  Do you think the Crimean Tatars passed on their love for their homeland and 'forgot' this 'fear' that must have had them running for an exit  ? You insult yourself be accepting such drivel.
Not just the Tatars, but also the trains administrators, clerks who have to push through documents, everyone involved in this huge operation did it in 1 day. That fact alone should have you pause to 'think' about it.

I also object to your use of the word 'Ethnic cleansing' as that usually means mass-death for a group of population which here wasn't the case. Huge amounts of Tatars returned home when the hate-level dropped in Crimea. Did you know that Uzbekistan at first also didn't want the tatars? They accepted them later when They found similar faith-brothers [sunni muslims]


OO===[][]===OO
My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria