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Author Topic: Russia is giving away free land.  (Read 18651 times)

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Online andrewfi

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #50 on: April 14, 2016, 04:03:23 AM »
OK, Yankee, let us try to get this straight.

You tell us just how the civil forfeiture process works and tell us how the reports up thread are telling untruths.

Go for it. Bear in mind that this is not a secret, that the US Attorney General has gotten involved with the issue and there's lots of corroborating information about. So, colour me curious, what insight do you offer that overturns the concerns of the most senior legal officers in the United States?

I am here only to state what my opinion is, not to “debate” with anyone on this site.  My experience tells me that there are a VERY SMALL number of people here who are interested in debate.  Sad to say I think you are not one of them.

Yankee, an opinion without fact to back it up is worthless.
I could write the following as an opinion: "in my opinion Yankee is a three legged space alien" but because there is no factual basis to the 'opinion' it is valueless.

What you are telling us is that what you write is not worthy of consideration.

You don't know HOW to debate - that is not an opinion, it is a statement of fact.

Truth be told you had an uninformed opinion upon which you chose to base a silly post. You have now learned something - that your unfounded opinion was worthless, but rather than man up and tell us that you got it wrong you prefer to tell us that you are an idiot.

If being seen as an idiot is preferable to admitting that you are capable of learning then so be it. Personally, I prefer to learn every day because by doing so I distance myself from idiocy. ;)
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline yankee

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #51 on: April 14, 2016, 06:48:52 AM »
OK, Yankee, let us try to get this straight.

You tell us just how the civil forfeiture process works and tell us how the reports up thread are telling untruths.

Go for it. Bear in mind that this is not a secret, that the US Attorney General has gotten involved with the issue and there's lots of corroborating information about. So, colour me curious, what insight do you offer that overturns the concerns of the most senior legal officers in the United States?

I am here only to state what my opinion is, not to “debate” with anyone on this site.  My experience tells me that there are a VERY SMALL number of people here who are interested in debate.  Sad to say I think you are not one of them.

Yankee, an opinion without fact to back it up is worthless.
I could write the following as an opinion: "in my opinion Yankee is a three legged space alien" but because there is no factual basis to the 'opinion' it is valueless.

What you are telling us is that what you write is not worthy of consideration.

You don't know HOW to debate - that is not an opinion, it is a statement of fact.

Truth be told you had an uninformed opinion upon which you chose to base a silly post. You have now learned something - that your unfounded opinion was worthless, but rather than man up and tell us that you got it wrong you prefer to tell us that you are an idiot.

If being seen as an idiot is preferable to admitting that you are capable of learning then so be it. Personally, I prefer to learn every day because by doing so I distance myself from idiocy. ;)

Andrewfi if you wish to see me as an idiot that is for you to decide.  The fact is that most of what you say is very childish.
What is worse than not being able to get what you don't even want?

Offline Anteros

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #52 on: April 14, 2016, 09:09:59 AM »
OK, Yankee, let us try to get this straight.

You tell us just how the civil forfeiture process works and tell us how the reports up thread are telling untruths.

Go for it. Bear in mind that this is not a secret, that the US Attorney General has gotten involved with the issue and there's lots of corroborating information about. So, colour me curious, what insight do you offer that overturns the concerns of the most senior legal officers in the United States?

I am here only to state what my opinion is, not to “debate” with anyone on this site.  My experience tells me that there are a VERY SMALL number of people here who are interested in debate.  Sad to say I think you are not one of them.

Yankee, an opinion without fact to back it up is worthless.
I could write the following as an opinion: "in my opinion Yankee is a three legged space alien" but because there is no factual basis to the 'opinion' it is valueless.

What you are telling us is that what you write is not worthy of consideration.

You don't know HOW to debate - that is not an opinion, it is a statement of fact.

Truth be told you had an uninformed opinion upon which you chose to base a silly post. You have now learned something - that your unfounded opinion was worthless, but rather than man up and tell us that you got it wrong you prefer to tell us that you are an idiot.

If being seen as an idiot is preferable to admitting that you are capable of learning then so be it. Personally, I prefer to learn every day because by doing so I distance myself from idiocy. ;)

Andrewfi if you wish to see me as an idiot that is for you to decide.  The fact is that most of what you say is very childish.

Don't worry Yankee.  You are not in the minority if you think that Andy is a gigantic plonker and a time waster as well.
Be careful what you wish for, you might get it.


Offline Gipsy

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #53 on: April 14, 2016, 01:03:47 PM »
Andrewfi

In 'the civilised world' - does one have one's bank account raided - without warning - for 'non payment' of social fund / tax - which are up to date - without warning  ?

If you are indicating that this happens in Russia, then you are correct, it does.
Its the law, IF you fail to pay your taxes/social fund payments, then, IF there is suspicion, BANG, your Bank acc can be raided/blocked/frozen/arrested..
The rule is very simple, pay what you should, adhere to the laws, and all ok...
There can be no argument or discussion about it. Its very civilised actually..

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Offline NS1

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #54 on: April 14, 2016, 03:29:27 PM »
Asked the wife.
the place is called Rozdolne
In the map, top left over looking the Karkinit Bay
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Map_of_the_Crimea.png
There is nothing permanent except change.

Offline msmoby

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #55 on: April 14, 2016, 10:12:42 PM »



Andrewfi

In 'the civilised world' - does one have one's bank account raided - without warning - for 'non payment' of social fund / tax - which are up to date - without warning  ?

If you are indicating that this happens in Russia, then you are correct, it does.

So far so good...

Its the law, IF you fail to pay your taxes/social fund payments, then, IF there is suspicion, BANG, your Bank acc can be raided/blocked/frozen/arrested..
The rule is very simple, pay what you should, adhere to the laws, and all ok...
There can be no argument or discussion about it. Its very civilised actually..

...and when you HAVE paid all your taxes, social fund and it happens without warning? ...When the tax authorities pass the buck ?

Gypo..We aren't talking 'frozen'..We are talking removed....

No warning..no letter disputing payments...

Indeed..'very civilised'...





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Online AvHdB

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #56 on: April 14, 2016, 11:32:28 PM »

Don't worry Yankee.  You are not in the minority if you think that Andy is a gigantic plonker and a time waster as well.


Andy has an occasional good point or insight. Generally though he is an ill bred forum prat. When proven wrong he does not  'learn' but rather wonders if the other poster speaks and understands English or is intoxicated.

I suspect in real life on one level he is quite shall we saying 'charming' and on a deeper level an insecure hollow man.
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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #57 on: April 15, 2016, 01:38:04 AM »
Asked the wife.
the place is called Rozdolne
In the map, top left over looking the Karkinit Bay
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Map_of_the_Crimea.png

I passed through Rozdolne with my car, on the way to Evpatoria.

It was a ghost town then, I can't imagine it being better now that the Ukr/Crimea landbridge is closed mostly.
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My first trip to my wife: To Evpatoria!
My road trip to Crimea: Roadtrip to Evpatoria

Online andrewfi

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #58 on: April 15, 2016, 01:45:23 AM »
And some people whine about ad hominem 'attacks'. The hypocrisy is running high in Topertown tonight.

Tell me,  oh great thinkers, what is the value of an opinion without a factual basis?
What does one learn from such an 'insight'?

Go on, try it,  think for a moment.

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Online andrewfi

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #59 on: April 15, 2016, 01:51:17 AM »
Andrewfi

In 'the civilised world' - does one have one's bank account raided - without warning - for 'non payment' of social fund / tax - which are up to date - without warning  ?

As I am sure you understand,  but prefer to troll, there is something of a difference between seizure of cash 'on suspicion' by an individual police officer at a roadside stop and seizure of bank accounts due to the non payment of debts to the government. If unsure please read up on the procedure in the United States and then try making an informed and honest contribution.

I am sure that when YOUR accounts stopped working you had good notice of the procedure but you chose to ignore the process because,  well,  moby.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!

Offline msmoby

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #60 on: April 15, 2016, 02:37:44 AM »



Andrewfi

In 'the civilised world' - does one have one's bank account raided - without warning - for 'non payment' of social fund / tax - which are up to date - without warning  ?

As I am sure you understand,  but prefer to troll, there is something of a difference between seizure of cash 'on suspicion' by an individual police officer at a roadside stop and seizure of bank accounts due to the non payment of debts to the government.

I 'see'... it is 'trolling' when andrewfi's 'point' is somewhat negated by far more serious examples of state sponsored 'fines'.

If unsure please read up on the procedure in the United States and then try making an informed and honest contribution.

Oooh, I'm sorry... you didn't like my pointing out that your exmple has worse variants?

May be you've never had to pay an unofficial 'straf' ( fine ) when at the wheel in a former Soviet state ?...


I am sure that when YOUR accounts stopped working you had good notice of the procedure but you chose to ignore the process because,  well,  moby.

I wasn't referring to MY accounts.. Are you suggesting the example is untrue....? 'Of course'... it's the ONLY way to handle stuff that doesn't suit your agenda..... 



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Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

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Offline Gipsy

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #61 on: April 15, 2016, 02:39:56 AM »
Asked the wife.
the place is called Rozdolne
In the map, top left over looking the Karkinit Bay
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Map_of_the_Crimea.png

If your wife has legal title to the land under the previous Ukraine/Crimea, then she is still the legal owner, the land has most probably NOT been confiscated.
Its much more likely, that someone is taking the current situation of disorganisation in Crimea, and putting a building on the land which will be then registered in that persons name, making a future claim more difficult.
The best advice is to contact a Russian lawyer in the local administrative area, and engage them to challenge this other persons claim in the courts.
HTH..(From a Russian lawyer).
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Offline Gipsy

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #62 on: April 15, 2016, 02:46:16 AM »
Andrewfi

In 'the civilised world' - does one have one's bank account raided - without warning - for 'non payment' of social fund / tax - which are up to date - without warning  ?

As I am sure you understand,  but prefer to troll, there is something of a difference between seizure of cash 'on suspicion' by an individual police officer at a roadside stop and seizure of bank accounts due to the non payment of debts to the government. If unsure please read up on the procedure in the United States and then try making an informed and honest contribution.

I am sure that when YOUR accounts stopped working you had good notice of the procedure but you chose to ignore the process because,  well,  moby.

Actually, initially Bank accounts are only arrested, it is then the responsibility of the account holder to challenge the arrest, supplying the required "Burden of proof" to support the release of the account..

If the account holder cannot supply the said proof within the arrested time limits, then the account can/may/will be seized up to the level of debt to the arrestor.

In addition, anyone owing monies to any government organisation can be stopped from leaving the country until said debt is absolved..
Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen

Offline msmoby

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #63 on: April 15, 2016, 03:01:25 AM »




Actually, initially Bank accounts are only arrested, it is then the responsibility of the account holder to challenge the arrest, supplying the required "Burden of proof" to support the release of the account..

NOT what occurred in the case I mention..

How you describe what SHOULD occur is civilised.







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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #64 on: April 15, 2016, 04:23:02 AM »
Andrewfi

In 'the civilised world' - does one have one's bank account raided - without warning - for 'non payment' of social fund / tax - which are up to date - without warning  ?

As I am sure you understand,  but prefer to troll, there is something of a difference between seizure of cash 'on suspicion' by an individual police officer at a roadside stop and seizure of bank accounts due to the non payment of debts to the government. If unsure please read up on the procedure in the United States and then try making an informed and honest contribution.

I am sure that when YOUR accounts stopped working you had good notice of the procedure but you chose to ignore the process because,  well,  moby.

Actually, initially Bank accounts are only arrested, it is then the responsibility of the account holder to challenge the arrest, supplying the required "Burden of proof" to support the release of the account..

If the account holder cannot supply the said proof within the arrested time limits, then the account can/may/will be seized up to the level of debt to the arrestor.

In addition, anyone owing monies to any government organisation can be stopped from leaving the country until said debt is absolved..

In fact the mechanics in The United States and it sounds like Russia are about the same for what is called garnishing of funds from a bank account.

The unfortunate reality in America is there are to many seizures of large amounts (in total) of cash by over aggressive law enforcement officers in the failed War on Drugs. Trying to reclaim the funds when innocent is very difficult and expensive. The present Attorney Lorreta Lynn(ch) has even expanded this policy.
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Offline Danchik

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #65 on: April 15, 2016, 04:30:44 AM »
My earlier point about "civil forfeiture" was only to show the hypocrisy that can be prevalent here on this forum; especially coming from the West.

Now it might not have been NS1's intention, but it certainly came across that way. Canadians on this forum seem to be the worst in thinking that these kinds of things only exist in countries like Russia or that "evil old" Russia does things like this at an ever alarming rate compared to the West/America. It doesn't.

The Russian government no more takes anyone's property or possessions than any other country, in fact Russia does it much less than America. But try explaining that to the brainwashed or the just plain ignorant on this forum.

When it hits closer to home as in NS's case it can certainly alter your perspective. And for the record, I would be a little jaded had it happened to me or someone I cared for.

I have often said to people here in Russia that the only difference in corruption between Russia and America is America legalizes their corruption; America is easily as corrupt as Russia. :)

Yankee, you are normally level headed about most things, but in this case maybe a little behind the curve. Here's a funny, yet sad take on the reality of such things from John Oliver (many more can be found on the internet). As I mentioned, these types of situations have doubled in the past 10 years.

It not only involves cash, but personal property, and as you can see in one of the early examples, it doesn't require one to be carrying large amounts of cash for it to be confiscated.

Yes, the actual percentage of people this has happened to can seem rather small, but keep in mind that 1% of America's population is well over 3 million people. Margaritas anyone!! :laugh:

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Offline Gipsy

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #66 on: April 15, 2016, 05:56:00 AM »
My earlier point about "civil forfeiture" was only to show the hypocrisy that can be prevalent here on this forum; especially coming from the West.

Now it might not have been NS1's intention, but it certainly came across that way. Canadians on this forum seem to be the worst in thinking that these kinds of things only exist in countries like Russia or that "evil old" Russia does things like this at an ever alarming rate compared to the West/America. It doesn't.

The Russian government no more takes anyone's property or possessions than any other country, in fact Russia does it much less than America. But try explaining that to the brainwashed or the just plain ignorant on this forum.

When it hits closer to home as in NS's case it can certainly alter your perspective. And for the record, I would be a little jaded had it happened to me or someone I cared for.

I have often said to people here in Russia that the only difference in corruption between Russia and America is America legalizes their corruption; America is easily as corrupt as Russia. :)

Yankee, you are normally level headed about most things, but in this case maybe a little behind the curve. Here's a funny, yet sad take on the reality of such things from John Oliver (many more can be found on the internet). As I mentioned, these types of situations have doubled in the past 10 years.

It not only involves cash, but personal property, and as you can see in one of the early examples, it doesn't require one to be carrying large amounts of cash for it to be confiscated.

Yes, the actual percentage of people this has happened to can seem rather small, but keep in mind that 1% of America's population is well over 3 million people. Margaritas anyone!! :laugh:


Crimea is no exception, which is why NS1 should quickly contact a Russian lawyer..
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Offline Gipsy

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #67 on: April 15, 2016, 05:59:40 AM »
Andrewfi

In 'the civilised world' - does one have one's bank account raided - without warning - for 'non payment' of social fund / tax - which are up to date - without warning  ?

As I am sure you understand,  but prefer to troll, there is something of a difference between seizure of cash 'on suspicion' by an individual police officer at a roadside stop and seizure of bank accounts due to the non payment of debts to the government. If unsure please read up on the procedure in the United States and then try making an informed and honest contribution.

I am sure that when YOUR accounts stopped working you had good notice of the procedure but you chose to ignore the process because,  well,  moby.

Actually, initially Bank accounts are only arrested, it is then the responsibility of the account holder to challenge the arrest, supplying the required "Burden of proof" to support the release of the account..

If the account holder cannot supply the said proof within the arrested time limits, then the account can/may/will be seized up to the level of debt to the arrestor.

In addition, anyone owing monies to any government organisation can be stopped from leaving the country until said debt is absolved..

In fact the mechanics in The United States and it sounds like Russia are about the same for what is called garnishing of funds from a bank account.

The unfortunate reality in America is there are to many seizures of large amounts (in total) of cash by over aggressive law enforcement officers in the failed War on Drugs. Trying to reclaim the funds when innocent is very difficult and expensive. The present Attorney Lorreta Lynn(ch) has even expanded this policy.

Possibly, I do not know about the US, but in Russia, Bank accounts are rarely arrested, and if they are, its mostly done by the taxation authorities/pension fund, and in the majority of cases, its company accounts...
Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #68 on: April 15, 2016, 07:02:52 AM »

Actually, initially Bank accounts are only arrested, it is then the responsibility of the account holder to challenge the arrest, supplying the required "Burden of proof" to support the release of the account..

If the account holder cannot supply the said proof within the arrested time limits, then the account can/may/will be seized up to the level of debt to the arrestor.

In addition, anyone owing monies to any government organisation can be stopped from leaving the country until said debt is absolved..

So, that's a very, very different thing to the point being made upthread about police taking money from people's cars on a whim...

Dan was spot on about corruption and the manner in which it is legalised in the US. I have pointed this out before now.
In the US it is now legal for a random police officer to seize cash, on whim, and without delay, from a car and its passengers. In Russia such a thing would be, to the best of my knowledge, illegal -the kind of corruption that many poor USAians complain about.

The process for reclaiming debts seems to be similar because, it is effective, simple and overt. While one might argue about whether such a thing is right or not in any given case, most societies accept the need for such a process and implement something similar. Folks like moby get caught out because they ignore the process. In the  US for police seizing cash from cars, for example, there is no process that can be seen, never mind ignored. Reclamation is costly and restitution uncommon.
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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #69 on: April 15, 2016, 08:11:33 AM »


Possibly, I do not know about the US, but in Russia, Bank accounts are rarely arrested, and if they are, its mostly done by the taxation authorities/pension fund, and in the majority of cases, its company accounts...

Once again, you may well be quoting YOUR experience - but it's not that of someone we know...and the funds were taken from a PERSONAL account - without any notification of irregularities / arrears, etc., ....

How any one can offer up suggestions that one nation does this more than another seems to be unquantifiable
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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #70 on: April 15, 2016, 08:18:55 AM »


Folks like moby get caught out because they ignore the process.

Selective reading , andrewfi  ?

1/ To be absolutely clear - 'moby' is not the victim

2/ the victim had no warning - suggestion of arrears or irregularities and is / was up to date with taxes /social funding

3/ This poster sees quite a difference in a policeman - taking cash - giving a receipt / legal reason - I note you ducked the reputation for FSU cops imposing their own 'fines' - and the state removing funds from a bank account without warning - not blocking - removing


Spin on
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Offline Gipsy

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #71 on: April 15, 2016, 08:27:17 AM »



Actually, initially Bank accounts are only arrested, it is then the responsibility of the account holder to challenge the arrest, supplying the required "Burden of proof" to support the release of the account..

If the account holder cannot supply the said proof within the arrested time limits, then the account can/may/will be seized up to the level of debt to the arrestor.

In addition, anyone owing monies to any government organisation can be stopped from leaving the country until said debt is absolved..

So, that's a very, very different thing to the point being made upthread about police taking money from people's cars on a whim...

Dan was spot on about corruption and the manner in which it is legalised in the US. I have pointed this out before now.
In the US it is now legal for a random police officer to seize cash, on whim, and without delay, from a car and its passengers. In Russia such a thing would be, to the best of my knowledge, illegal -the kind of corruption that many poor USAians complain about.

The process for reclaiming debts seems to be similar because, it is effective, simple and overt. While one might argue about whether such a thing is right or not in any given case, most societies accept the need for such a process and implement something similar. Folks like moby get caught out because they ignore the process. In the  US for police seizing cash from cars, for example, there is no process that can be seen, never mind ignored. Reclamation is costly and restitution uncommon.

Andrewfi

In 'the civilised world' - does one have one's bank account raided - without warning - for 'non payment' of social fund / tax - which are up to date - without warning  ?





This is the post to which I was responding..

Nothing about the police in the US.
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Online andrewfi

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #72 on: April 15, 2016, 08:39:21 AM »
I am fully aware of that. This board is not read only by you and I. For convenience I referred to your words because they supported the point I was making. The point being, in part, that what moby was trolling about had no connection with  civil forfeiture in the United States and particularly in respect of that undertaken by police stopping and seizing money from travelers in cars.

I noted that the system, as you described it, seems similar to that found in other civilised countries and is normal enough.
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Offline Gipsy

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #73 on: April 15, 2016, 08:43:02 AM »
I am fully aware of that. This board is not read only by you and I. For convenience I referred to your words because they supported the point I was making. The point being, in part, that what moby was trolling about had no connection with  civil forfeiture in the United States and particularly in respect of that undertaken by police stopping and seizing money from travelers in cars.

I noted that the system, as you described it, seems similar to that found in other civilised countries and is normal enough.

 tiphat
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Offline Gipsy

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Re: Russia is giving away free land.
« Reply #74 on: April 15, 2016, 08:47:16 AM »
Asked the wife.
the place is called Rozdolne
In the map, top left over looking the Karkinit Bay
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Map_of_the_Crimea.png

Has your wife now got Canadian nationality, or still only Ukrainian?
Bridge is a lot like sex, either you need a good partner, or a decent hand... Woody Allen