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Author Topic: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion  (Read 21727 times)

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Online Markje

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2015, 01:18:30 PM »

Markje, RT and RIA Novosti are both Kremlin owned and operated so the mistake would still be made by a Kremlin agency. It's obvious that Kremlin media agencies are promoting a Kremlin view and disparaging those who don't follow the Kremlin views.
Maybe so, but they are doing it with half and full-truth articles . So far I haven't caught them lying.
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Offline Tom Cat

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2015, 02:23:48 PM »
Here is an article about a former News reporter for RT that quit because she didn't want to lie for Putin.
 

Russia Today Anchor Resigns, Admits To Spreading 'Lies' For Putin

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5598815

This article is written for Russian insider basically tells facts are distorted to suit the need.
No matter what media, things are not always 100 percent accurate.

Stop Sugarcoating Russia's Economic Situation

http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/stop-sugarcoating-russias-economy/ri7582
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

Online andrewfi

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2015, 03:05:15 PM »
The article written for Huffington Post is interesting.

As for the 'resignation' there's a whole interesting story and well founded speculation about it. With hindsight though the claims made in that article do not seem particularly sound; however at the time they would have found a good resonance with the chosen framing of current events.

The second linked article does not do that which you claim Tom Cat. For a start, to 'sugar coat' something is not to be dishonest or even misleading it is a matter of presentation. The article makes it fully clear that the Russian populace, in the opinion of the author is well informed about macro economic and geo political matters.

Doctorow is an interesting bloke and his piece was interesting and worth reading. However the basic premise of the article seems poorly founded, even from the evidence provided within the piece. He tells us that problems should not be sugar coated yet he tells us that the Russian people are already aware of the problems, are dealing with them and understand the reasons why things are as they are. His general observations are interesting and, from what I know, likely to have been fairly accurate at the time they were made but the article loses its purpose because there is no need to change what people know when they already know it.

My surmise is that Doctorow, was assuming that Russian culture is similar to the US. I noted that his 'belwether' for consumer activity was Stockman, a Finnish chain specialising in market skimming pricing (they serve, outside Finland) those people with more money than sense. Such an outlet would very rapidly show the effects of belt tightening but those people will not have stopped spending. Stockman clients will do as I do (I am in the Stockman demographic) and buy their milk from more sensibly priced outlets whilst still buying their imported Stilton at the Stockman cheese counter. This is supported by his observation that outlets aimed at the mass market are doing just fine. Doctorow is enough disconnected from Russian life that he does not know where else to buy his groceries on his visits to Saint Petersburg. That insight is telling when he is trying to lecture news media on how they communicate with their audience - except that His audience is not Russian.
Things that make you go hmmmm...
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Online andrewfi

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2015, 03:21:58 PM »
Double post, sorry.

Only two months later and Doctorow, rather than being a little lazy, got down to it and told us that sanctions against Russia are not working. This piece based upon more objective observation makes much more sense. http://russia-insider.com/en/politics/sanctions-have-failed-buy-russian-working/ri9050

Here he is not patronising the  Russian people or his audience. He took the trouble to actually look at stuff and understand why things are as they are. He now understands the mechanisms that he was getting wrong before.

And,  yes, he is right. Sanctions are not working, the Russian free market is dealing with the constraints upon it. His previous piece and this demonstrate quite a lot of learning rendering his previous criticism of the Russian government and media moot.
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Offline msmoby

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2015, 10:56:54 PM »


We established that there is no evidence that RT is dishonest ages ago.

'We' DID  ?


Ofcom didn't get your memo.. “Ofcom found that RT broadcast content that was either materially misleading or not duly impartial. These are significant failings and we are therefore requiring RT to broadcast two clear statements on our decision which correct these failures.”

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/sep/21/rt-sanctioned-over-series-of-misleading-articles-by-media-watchdog



Moby is bored stiff because he has nothing to do but you Markje, you have a family and a business. ;)

I am assuredly not bored and  your claiming some sort of 'resolution' re Russia Today is bizarre.



Moby has trolled you for several days with his silly posting and you have gone along with it. Shame on you!  :dh:

What is 'silly' about pointing out factual errors  ?

You already agreed that the proofing editor had been remiss re using incorrect photos - so who is 'trolling'  ?


I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Online Markje

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2015, 12:52:26 AM »
Ofcom didn't get your memo.. “Ofcom found that RT broadcast content that was either materially misleading or not duly impartial. These are significant failings and we are therefore requiring RT to broadcast two clear statements on our decision which correct these failures.”

http://www.theguardian.com/media/2015/sep/21/rt-sanctioned-over-series-of-misleading-articles-by-media-watchdog
From your own URL:
Quote


The RT programme, broadcast in March 2014, included allegations that the BBC had edited an interview with a Syrian doctor to misrepresent her comments about treating victims of an attack.

Ofcom did not consider the accuracy of the claims made in the Truthseeker programmes as the show is considered current affairs rather than news programming.

Bolding mine.

Sorry about that Moby, nice try though.

Whats even more bizarre, is that they're trying to force RT to say RT purposefully misled viewers, whilst they didn't even investigate the claims RT made!!!!

The other episode:

Quote
Another episode of Truthseeker claimed there was a government-backed genocide taking place in eastern Ukraine, while a half-hour standalone segment called Ukraine’s Refugees alleged the Ukrainian government was involved in killing civilians.
How is this untrue, its been on the news often in the last year.
Quote
Ukraine’s Refugees featured only first-hand accounts, but the Ukrainian government’s response was limited to a six-second message shown at the end of the programme.

Riiiight, very misleading indeed, first-hand eyewitnesses in the program and still they're not being truthful?

Mark.
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Offline Manny

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2015, 01:21:04 AM »
Here is an article about a former News reporter for RT that quit because she didn't want to lie for Putin.

Russia Today Anchor Resigns, Admits To Spreading 'Lies' For Putin

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5598815

And RT's press release on the subject at that time was this:

Quote
“We were not surprised by Sara Firth’s decision to leave RT after five years as a Moscow and London correspondent, as she has recently informed us that she was likely to take an offer from another firm.

“The plane crash is an absolutely terrible tragedy, there are a lot of questions that surround it and everybody is looking for answers. More than 15 RT journalists are working on this story — from Moscow, from the Russian-Ukrainian border, London, Berlin, Washington. RT Spanish journalist Francisco Guaita was one of the first TV correspondents to get to the scene late last night. Our reporters are in the Netherlands and Malaysia.

“Sara has declared that she chooses the truth; apparently we have different definitions of the truth. We believe that the truth is what our reporters see on the ground, with their own eyes and not what’s printed in the morning London newspaper.

“In our coverage, RT, unlike the rest of the media, did not draw conclusions before the official investigation has even begun. We show all sides of the story, even if everyone else has already decided which side is to blame.”
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Online andrewfi

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2015, 02:04:14 AM »
Didn't she leave RT and go to work for Huffington Post?

At the moment she seems to be unattached, unemployed, freelance working in Nigeria.

If her Twitter feed represents her accurately then it is no surprise that she was unable to continue working at RT because she quite clearly has a personal editorial position that does not mesh with being able to work with a 'proper' news organisation as a journalist or reporter. The words published by RT about her fit very well in the context of what can be seen after her time with RT ended. It'd seem that her live tantrum was both an expression of her personal feelings but also an attempt to be recruited by an organisation that better represented her prejudices viewpoint.

The odd thing is that on a personal level she does exactly that which she accuses RT of doing. Objectively it'd seem to me that, given her viewpoint, that as far as she could tell RT was pushing a perspective and/or bending the truth. If one removes her personal reality distortion field then the chances are that to a neutral observer or participant that RT does nothing of the sort - apart from that which is enshrined as its mission statement: reporting world affairs from a Russian perspective.
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Offline msmoby

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2015, 03:04:35 AM »


And RT's press release on the subject at that time was this:

“We were not surprised by Sara Firth’s decision to leave RT after five years as a Moscow and London correspondent, as she has recently informed us that she was likely to take an offer from another firm.''

Manny - they HAD to say something ... hardly alters the fact that she wasn't the first to cry 'enough' ...

Quote from: Russia Today
“Sara has declared that she chooses the truth; apparently we have different definitions of the truth. We believe that the truth is what our reporters see on the ground, with their own eyes and not what’s printed in the morning London newspaper.''

If you recall - her issue was with the editorial line.... and dishonesty

I'm certain she isn't earning as much lolly - but I bet she feels better....

I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline Manny

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2015, 04:09:23 AM »
Quote from: Russia Today
“Sara has declared that she chooses the truth; apparently we have different definitions of the truth. We believe that the truth is what our reporters see on the ground, with their own eyes and not what’s printed in the morning London newspaper.''

If you recall - her issue was with the editorial line.... and dishonesty

That views can differ is not big news. We see it here every day.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline msmoby

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2015, 05:02:18 AM »
Didn't she leave RT and go to work for Huffington Post?

At the moment she seems to be unattached, unemployed, freelance working in Nigeria.


I'm sure she's earning less of a salary - but can sleep at night

I have never claimed to be a Blue Beret

Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline Manny

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2015, 01:16:34 PM »
Didn't she leave RT and go to work for Huffington Post?

At the moment she seems to be unattached, unemployed, freelance working in Nigeria.


I'm sure she's earning less of a salary - but can sleep at night

Yes, she may regret it now. She follows me on Twitter, do you want me to ask?  :chuckle:
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline msmoby

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2015, 02:07:12 PM »

Yes, she may regret it now. She follows me on Twitter, do you want me to ask?  :chuckle:

I don't 'tweet' ... Even I draw the line somewhere....    :chuckle:
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Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

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Online andrewfi

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2015, 02:23:58 PM »
Moby, it is worth remembering that when she joined RT she had almost no relevant experience. The basic problem. That she had was that she was unable to handle doing the job.

As I noted, from her her perspective given her shortcomings, she may well have honestly thought she was justified. On an objective level she was wrong.

Her job was not to editorialise but to report objectively factual information. She was unable to do that. From what I can see she is now in a role where her shortcomings are not so evident or may even be an advantage. However it is a very limited role and when she seeks to move upward she is going to need to be able to do her job objectively.

As you have discovered, RT does not present issues in terms of honesty. Yes, I get that you've problems with the concept and so definition of boundaries is likely an issue for you making it hard to understand the reality. But you have been unable to find a single case of dishonest reporting from RT. Dishonesty is not hard for an objective observer to uncover; you got tied up in irrelevant matters because you know no better.  Markje, probably to his surprise found none.

A journalist needs to be able to cast aside preconceptions and deal with the reality of the world. It is not an easy job. Sarah was not able to do so and failed in her role. Her preconceptions misled her, albeit that her method of leaving was calculated to improve her chances of picking up a job more suited to her chosen worldview, not that everything worked out as she was probably hoping.

A stringer in Nigeria is not the peak of her profession.
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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2015, 02:46:47 PM »
I don't necessarily agree with this article, but it's typically how the west views Russian media. Personally I have found the Russian media a great source for information.

Putin’s News Network of Lies Is Just the Start

http://www.newsweek.com/putins-news-network-lies-just-start-361877
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2015, 03:03:34 PM »


“”Every single day we're lying and finding sexier ways to do it.—Former RT reporter Sara Firth[1]

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/RT#Conspiracy_theories

Here's an article that Manny, and Andrewfi should enjoy ripping apart. :chuckle:

PUTIN’S PROPAGANDA TV LIES ABOUT ITS POPULARITY



http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/17/putin-s-propaganda-tv-lies-about-ratings.html
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

Offline msmoby

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2015, 03:31:06 PM »
Moby, it is worth remembering that when she joined RT she had almost no relevant experience. The basic problem. That she had was that she was unable to handle doing the job.

 :chuckle:

So, if THAT was true - she'd have been fired - not walked .. from Russia Today
 

The rest of your post was andrewfi 'kite flying' and you have lost a lost of them, recently - misreading folk, their motives and 'conclusions'


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Spurious claims about 'seeing action' with the Blue Berets are debunked >here<

Here is my Russophobia/Kremlinphobia topic

Offline WestCoast

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2015, 04:59:01 PM »
Any media company that isn't willing to investigate and criticise its own government is biased. This is especially true if the same media company is willing to investigate and criticise foreign governments. Add in the fact that RT is owned and operated by the Kremlin and the bias is compounded exponentially.   
andrewfi says ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."

That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.

Offline Manny

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2015, 10:43:33 PM »
Any media company that isn't willing to investigate and criticise its own government is biased. This is especially true if the same media company is willing to investigate and criticise foreign governments. Add in the fact that RT the BBC is owned and operated by the Kremlin establishment and the bias is compounded exponentially.

So I changed two words in your quote and it still reads right, yes?

At least RT doesn't fund itself with a forced TV tax whether you watch it or not. Oh no, that's the BBC again.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #44 on: October 23, 2015, 11:44:30 PM »
Any media company that isn't willing to investigate and criticise its own government is biased. This is especially true if the same media company is willing to investigate and criticise foreign governments. Add in the fact that RT the BBC is owned and operated by the Kremlin establishment and the bias is compounded exponentially.

So I changed two words in your quote and it still reads right, yes?

At least RT doesn't fund itself with a forced TV tax whether you watch it or not. Oh no, that's the BBC again.

Not sure how the BBC gets its funding but even I know the BBC regularly criticises the various levels of government throughout the UK. Correct?

andrewfi says ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."

That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2015, 11:51:25 PM »
Any media company that isn't willing to investigate and criticise its own government is biased. This is especially true if the same media company is willing to investigate and criticise foreign governments. Add in the fact that RT the BBC is owned and operated by the Kremlin establishment and the bias is compounded exponentially.

So I changed two words in your quote and it still reads right, yes?

At least RT doesn't fund itself with a forced TV tax whether you watch it or not. Oh no, that's the BBC again.

Not sure how the BBC gets its funding but even I know the BBC regularly criticises the various levels of government throughout the UK. Correct?

They pay lip service to it, but they expose and investigate little about the government in reality.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline msmoby

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2015, 01:26:27 AM »


So I changed two words in your quote and it still reads right, yes?



Nope...

As you know - your attempt to deflect doesn't work - the BBC has demonstrably hounded the govt. This is the forth time I have reminded you of the Hutton report - over Iraq - it was responsible for Tony Blair resigning

Can you HONESTLY see Russia Today investigating how Putin came into so much money or why Ivanov's son could knock down an elderly lady and not face charges, or Peskov's 600k USD watch which was a 'wedding gift' - but he wore it six months earlier  ?

If the BBC behaved liked Russia Today - there'd be Programs such as 'Underground' investigating all that is wrong with Russian Politics  :chuckle:

Your 'tax'..

When watching Russia Today or CNN, etc, you get adverts...When a member of your family might watch Doctor Who - no adverts - but they're there if watching re-runs on other channels



At least RT doesn't fund itself with a forced TV tax whether you watch it or not. Oh no, that's the BBC again.

If you don't like / pay  the tax - I'm sure you never watch live tv at chez Manny  ? :chuckle:
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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2015, 01:44:55 AM »
If you truly want to know how 'free' the western media are, see how they treat the 'syrian refugee sitatuation'. All news media that stifle discussion by describing those against harbouring more refugees with the words 'racist white ignorants' or similar, are definately in the governments pockets. As the governments know the current level of unrest in Europe as a whole is already so high they need to close the borders today, not tomorrow, today. And that scares them so they're trying to stifle any discussion that says so.

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2015, 08:36:29 AM »
If all Russian media is controlled by Putin, then if one can't find lies in the Russian media, Putin must be a very honorable man.

WORLDPOST

Putin's Press: How Russia's President Controls The News

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/56215944e4b0bce34700b1df
Don't shoot the messenger, links to articles posted, don't necessarily reflect my personal opinion.

Online andrewfi

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Re: The RT (Russia Today) Discussion
« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2015, 09:08:49 AM »
All Russian media is not controlled by Putin.

He is human, not a god, not omnipotent.

And if one judges a man's credibility by what they do as compared to what they say then the guy seems to be both credible and honorable.

A thing that many, particularly those with no way to see for themselves because they can not read the words they see or understand the words they hear, do not understand is that there is a great diversity of media outlets and opinions.

However, in respect of government policy there is, quite obviously, little enough diversity of opinion. The president, and thus the government have huge public support. When you have 90% of the populace in support of current policies and the 10% who 'oppose' simply want stronger, more emphatic implementation of current policies then there is not going to be a huge diversity of opinion. News media reports what they see. Opinion (editorial comment) is rooted in attitudes toward news. If there is no audience for, shall we suggest, withdrawal from Crimea then you will not see much comment or analysis of that position.

When even such stalwarts of the opposition such as Eduard Limonov publicly choose to stand behind the current government and its foreign polices then who are you going to find to, credibly, speak to that position?
Answer: you will not.

In matters where there is dissent there is debate and it is found on mass media as well as little blogs and forums.
...everything ends always well; if it’s still bad, then it’s not the end!


 

 

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