De-Dollarisation.

[AvHdB]

6.   Who do you think is behind all these financial troubles around the world and can you rely on the real owners of the FED to save your bacon?

Lets work on just one question here. Much of the world had a FED bank much like the one the US has. As far as I know, they all pretty much have the same owners. That there is much that happen in this world that no one that was ever elected has anything to do with making it happen or the powerful shadow governments of the world are so powerful those that were elected had no choice but to follow.

The big weakness to our form of government is to promise entitlements to people to get votes then let the next man in office try to find away to pay for it. Guess what, this is not working. This is true in most of the world.

The world's FED banks which seem to encourage the process will keep everything going until they deem it time for a change. No they are not going to tell me anything about what that change is going to be but I doubt it is going to be pretty for most of the developed world.

Back in 1971 Nixon went to China and signed an agreement for trade that all but guaranteed China would grow at the expense of the USA. None of us voted on this or even wanted it.  Why would we sign a free trade agreement with a country who then could buy nothing and have nearly free labor. How this going to put Americans to work? Since then these so called trade agreements are not good for us but we keep having them anyway. 

So to answer the question; In the end the FED banks will not save us or the rest of the world. They are a part of the problem.

Well done Texan.....very well put it and we both agree the problem are the Bankers and the Neoliberal think tanks and politicians. I liked very much your objective view.

Small correction: other countries do not call their Central Banks FED but Bank o England, Bank Of Russia, Bank of Greece etc.and as you said all of them, apart of 3-4 that are independent, are owned by the same Banking cabal.

At times RUA is an odd lot.

We might often agree but disagree because we are different points on a circle, I also am very curious as to what happens behind the closed doors of the FED. In the past I have supported R. Paul's attempts to audit the FED. The not so funny thing is a vast majority of American citizen's feel the same way and yet as far as I know not ONE of the remaining candidates has mentioned the FED.

Sort of sad it seems no matter who is President, Joe Public will be screwed again.

Wiz curious what are the currencies that are independent in your opinion?

[Wiz]

6.   Who do you think is behind all these financial troubles around the world and can you rely on the real owners of the FED to save your bacon?

Lets work on just one question here. Much of the world had a FED bank much like the one the US has. As far as I know, they all pretty much have the same owners. That there is much that happen in this world that no one that was ever elected has anything to do with making it happen or the powerful shadow governments of the world are so powerful those that were elected had no choice but to follow.

The big weakness to our form of government is to promise entitlements to people to get votes then let the next man in office try to find away to pay for it. Guess what, this is not working. This is true in most of the world.

The world's FED banks which seem to encourage the process will keep everything going until they deem it time for a change. No they are not going to tell me anything about what that change is going to be but I doubt it is going to be pretty for most of the developed world.

Back in 1971 Nixon went to China and signed an agreement for trade that all but guaranteed China would grow at the expense of the USA. None of us voted on this or even wanted it.  Why would we sign a free trade agreement with a country who then could buy nothing and have nearly free labor. How this going to put Americans to work? Since then these so called trade agreements are not good for us but we keep having them anyway. 

So to answer the question; In the end the FED banks will not save us or the rest of the world. They are a part of the problem.

Well done Texan.....very well put it and we both agree the problem are the Bankers and the Neoliberal think tanks and politicians. I liked very much your objective view.

Small correction: other countries do not call their Central Banks FED but Bank o England, Bank Of Russia, Bank of Greece etc.and as you said all of them, apart of 3-4 that are independent, are owned by the same Banking cabal.

At times RUA is an odd lot.

We might often agree but disagree because we are different points on a circle, I also am very curious as to what happens behind the closed doors of the FED. In the past I have supported R. Paul's attempts to audit the FED. The not so funny thing is a vast majority of American citizen's feel the same way and yet as far as I know not ONE of the remaining candidates has mentioned the FED.

Sort of sad it seems no matter who is President, Joe Public will be screwed again.

Wiz curious what are the currencies that are independent in your opinion?

I was talking about the National Banks who have the right to issue their National currency and not for independent currencies!

Currencies need to have "Convertibility" to serve the country's economy, so there are "Floating currencies", like the Pound, Dollar, Euro, Japanese Yen and Australian Dollar and also "fixed Currencies" whose value is tied to that of another currency, gold or to a currency basket.

[AvHdB]

6.   Who do you think is behind all these financial troubles around the world and can you rely on the real owners of the FED to save your bacon?

Lets work on just one question here. Much of the world had a FED bank much like the one the US has. As far as I know, they all pretty much have the same owners. That there is much that happen in this world that no one that was ever elected has anything to do with making it happen or the powerful shadow governments of the world are so powerful those that were elected had no choice but to follow.

The big weakness to our form of government is to promise entitlements to people to get votes then let the next man in office try to find away to pay for it. Guess what, this is not working. This is true in most of the world.

The world's FED banks which seem to encourage the process will keep everything going until they deem it time for a change. No they are not going to tell me anything about what that change is going to be but I doubt it is going to be pretty for most of the developed world.

Back in 1971 Nixon went to China and signed an agreement for trade that all but guaranteed China would grow at the expense of the USA. None of us voted on this or even wanted it.  Why would we sign a free trade agreement with a country who then could buy nothing and have nearly free labor. How this going to put Americans to work? Since then these so called trade agreements are not good for us but we keep having them anyway. 

So to answer the question; In the end the FED banks will not save us or the rest of the world. They are a part of the problem.

Well done Texan.....very well put it and we both agree the problem are the Bankers and the Neoliberal think tanks and politicians. I liked very much your objective view.

Small correction: other countries do not call their Central Banks FED but Bank o England, Bank Of Russia, Bank of Greece etc.and as you said all of them, apart of 3-4 that are independent, are owned by the same Banking cabal.

At times RUA is an odd lot.

We might often agree but disagree because we are different points on a circle, I also am very curious as to what happens behind the closed doors of the FED. In the past I have supported R. Paul's attempts to audit the FED. The not so funny thing is a vast majority of American citizen's feel the same way and yet as far as I know not ONE of the remaining candidates has mentioned the FED.

Sort of sad it seems no matter who is President, Joe Public will be screwed again.

Wiz curious what are the currencies that are independent in your opinion?

I was talking about the National Banks who have the right to issue their National currency and not for independent currencies!

Currencies need to have "Convertibility" to serve the country's economy, so there are "Floating currencies", like the Pound, Dollar, Euro, Japanese Yen and Australian Dollar and also "fixed Currencies" whose value is tied to that of another currency, gold or to a currency basket.

Wiz, My bad, excuses. I phrased the question in a clumsy way. Which National Banks representing there country puts there citizens benefits and well being before that of a bunch of self serving bankers parasites in Manhattan and London?

My own guess would be that Norway would be part of this group, sometimes I admire some of the policies of South Africa. But my GUESS could be wrong.

NB: Edit after posting spelling & adjective.

[Wiz]

The US has the past 2 years  together with Saudi Arabia tried to bankrupt Russia using various methods but at the end has failed. Putin and his team of advisers are not the old guard of Yeltsin who sold everything for a song. Just count how many times won the match against Obama, the past 5 years and got him with his punts down!

While the article Wiz posts raises some interesting points, there are also some flaws, when I have enough coffee I might read the actual article and not the transcript posted.

As for the gem above, it gets very tiring reading this nonsense. Simply said it is bull shit.

There is something called the world economy. Oil reached levels that put it in tulipmania territory. Suddenly more or less at the same time America was/is ready to become a petro fuel exporter, the world economy (primarily China) did a hickup and demand and consumption in the West primarily the United States declined.

Guess what the price declined, perhaps too far, but that is how markets over the centuries have worked. With the return of Iran to exporting fuel an large increase of the price of crude oil is unlikely to happen.

Most likely Wiz and Andrew will come up with some looney conspiracy drivel ignoring common sense and factors that even a teenager can understand. Suck it up and try too stay reality based, please.

Curious where is Rurria, is that like Erewhon?

Your memory after the fresh air in the Karpathians is failing you as I have already spoke, on this thread post No 384, http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,24660.msg434810.html#msg434810
about the oil prices in the past and why it's happening!

Before opening your mouth and spiting out rubbish, I suggest you read very carefully my  comments made there and don't rush to your usual "Mr know all" attitude to cal them BS.

Here are some more additional information on the subject, for your consideration and hope you understand what I meant with my earlier post!

The US, to achieve its aims.... against Russia, has promised security support to Saudi Arabia and as part of it, it's supplying Saudi with military equipment and ammunition and also with fighter planes, to continue its bombing operations and genocide in Yemen.

Do you know how many soldiers Saudi have moved to Turkey with the view to attack Syria together with them?

I read in some defense sites.... around 150 000 personnel but can't vouch for it!

The oil price has fallen well bellow the cost to producers of Fracking oil and as several of them closed down some correction has taken place and last week was trading around $40 dollars, still below their cost. Today after no agreement between the OPEC producers and Russia is trading at $38.44 in the East markets. According to the WSJ it can go down to $30 in few days. Wait and see.  http://www.wsj.com/articles/oil-prices-set-to-fall-after-producers-fail-to-reach-deal-at-doha-1460927579

I am sure you do realize that the US is trying to keep Russia busy opening many fronts, like the latest episode in Armenia and Azerbaijan and the open case of Ukraine, Minsk agreement and continue playing games in the Baltic's and so on. For this reason the Russian Government had to freeze salaries for the next 2 years and cancel certain big projects. The security and assimilation of Crimea is important and takes priority.

Now for your information.... I read the latest report about the Russian foreign reserves and went up for the last quarter, together with the Gold reserves.

don't forget the report on this board, by Andrew, for the cost of oil and gas to Russia.

Obviously the Russian economy continues functioning satisfactory despite the additional cost and is nowhere near to go bust!

The us is nowhere near to start exporting gas to EU as they have not the LNG facilities and the ports ready!

[AvHdB]

The US has the past 2 years  together with Saudi Arabia tried to bankrupt Russia using various methods but at the end has failed. Putin and his team of advisers are not the old guard of Yeltsin who sold everything for a song. Just count how many times won the match against Obama, the past 5 years and got him with his punts down!

While the article Wiz posts raises some interesting points, there are also some flaws, when I have enough coffee I might read the actual article and not the transcript posted.

As for the gem above, it gets very tiring reading this nonsense. Simply said it is bull shit.

There is something called the world economy. Oil reached levels that put it in tulipmania territory. Suddenly more or less at the same time America was/is ready to become a petro fuel exporter, the world economy (primarily China) did a hickup and demand and consumption in the West primarily the United States declined.

Guess what the price declined, perhaps too far, but that is how markets over the centuries have worked. With the return of Iran to exporting fuel an large increase of the price of crude oil is unlikely to happen.

Most likely Wiz and Andrew will come up with some looney conspiracy drivel ignoring common sense and factors that even a teenager can understand. Suck it up and try too stay reality based, please.

Curious where is Rurria, is that like Erewhon?

Your memory after the fresh air in the Karpathians is failing you as I have already spoke, on this thread post No 384, http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php/topic,24660.msg434810.html#msg434810
about the oil prices in the past and why it's happening!

Before opening your mouth and spiting out rubbish, I suggest you read very carefully my  comments made there and don't rush to your usual "Mr know all" attitude to cal them BS.

Here are some more additional information on the subject, for your consideration and hope you understand what I meant with my earlier post!

The US, to achieve its aims.... against Russia, has promised security support to Saudi Arabia and as part of it, it's supplying Saudi with military equipment and ammunition and also with fighter planes, to continue its bombing operations and genocide in Yemen.

Do you know how many soldiers Saudi have moved to Turkey with the view to attack Syria together with them?

I read in some defense sites.... around 150 000 personnel but can't vouch for it!

The oil price has fallen well bellow the cost to producers of Fracking oil and as several of them closed down some correction has taken place and last week was trading around $40 dollars, still below their cost. Today after no agreement between the OPEC producers and Russia is trading at $38.44 in the East markets. According to the WSJ it can go down to $30 in few days. Wait and see.  http://www.wsj.com/articles/oil-prices-set-to-fall-after-producers-fail-to-reach-deal-at-doha-1460927579

I am sure you do realize that the US is trying to keep Russia busy opening many fronts, like the latest episode in Armenia and Azerbaijan and the open case of Ukraine, Minsk agreement and continue playing games in the Baltic's and so on. For this reason the Russian Government had to freeze salaries for the next 2 years and cancel certain big projects. The security and assimilation of Crimea is important and takes priority.

Now for your information.... I read the latest report about the Russian foreign reserves and went up for the last quarter, together with the Gold reserves.

don't forget the report on this board, by Andrew, for the cost of oil and gas to Russia.

Obviously the Russian economy continues functioning satisfactory despite the additional cost and is nowhere near to go bust!

The us is nowhere near to start exporting gas to EU as they have not the LNG facilities and the ports ready!

Wiz, In my line of work, old masters and the 19th century, we say Ius non scriptum an unwritten rule, that the longer the story & BS the more likely you are looking at an forgery or copy.

So is it with this conspiracy.

I am a big believer in the KISS theory.

[Texan77]

Russia does more to shoot itself in the foot than the US could ever do to harm it. Russia has done as much as any country to make the price of oil low by pushing get Iran oil back on the market and continue to expand drilling as price came down. The Russia shot itself again in eastern Ukraine. Everyone would have left them alone in one year with just a few light sanctions if they just took Crimea but no they had to turn this into a war. Then Russia lost is closes friend in NATO and the European pipeline when it sanction Turkey. Russia's on going aggressive behavior has scared NATO countries to expand defense budgets. Health care in Russia budget cut as defense budget expands to be by far the largest item in the Russian budget. No European country spends near as large of a percentage of its GDP as Russia on defense nor does the USA. The list goes on but no one will every complain in Russia because of the server consequences to anyone who publish the other side of the stories.

[rosco]

Or......

You guys are doing your best to isolate Russia and instigate regime change for your own benefit. If you can wean Europe off Russian oil & gas and take the trade over the Atlantic, job done. The american obsession with the old enemy knows no bounds and the contempt many have for Russia is obvious. This type of mentality can only be adopted through years of propaganda and its really sad to see. Even worse, many of these types go looking for a Russian wife....figure that out!

I know it works both ways and there's plenty proof that ones as bad as the other, but currently there's more sympathy towards Russia than i can ever remember. I suspect social media has done wonders for myth busting and governments are finding it harder to hide behind layers of bull shite.

Here's a clip from none other than our favourite FOX. Listen to these two, ignorant jumped up imbeciles spouting their bile on national television. One of them even thinks Europe is a country.

I'm not anti American and I have a lot of time for many of its people. Foreign policy however, disgusting.

[AvHdB]

Russia does more to shoot itself in the foot than the US could ever do to harm it. Russia has done as much as any country to make the price of oil low by pushing get Iran oil back on the market and continue to expand drilling as price came down. The Russia shot itself again in eastern Ukraine. Everyone would have left them alone in one year with just a few light sanctions if they just took Crimea but no they had to turn this into a war. Then Russia lost is closes friend in NATO and the European pipeline when it sanction Turkey. Russia's on going aggressive behavior has scared NATO countries to expand defense budgets. Health care in Russia budget cut as defense budget expands to be by far the largest item in the Russian budget. No European country spends near as large of a percentage of its GDP as Russia on defense nor does the USA. The list goes on but no one will every complain in Russia because of the server consequences to anyone who publish the other side of the stories.

While I would nuance some of the above differently it seems to be a fairly accurate assessment. Historically going back centuries Putin is following a well worn Russian path.

The one success that Vlady can claim is to cause permanent resentment in about 40 million odd people.

  Way to go! Congratulations 

[Gipsy]

Russia does more to shoot itself in the foot than the US could ever do to harm it. Russia has done as much as any country to make the price of oil low by pushing get Iran oil back on the market and continue to expand drilling as price came down. The Russia shot itself again in eastern Ukraine. Everyone would have left them alone in one year with just a few light sanctions if they just took Crimea but no they had to turn this into a war. Then Russia lost is closes friend in NATO and the European pipeline when it sanction Turkey. Russia's on going aggressive behavior has scared NATO countries to expand defense budgets. Health care in Russia budget cut as defense budget expands to be by far the largest item in the Russian budget. No European country spends near as large of a percentage of its GDP as Russia on defense nor does the USA. The list goes on but no one will every complain in Russia because of the server consequences to anyone who publish the other side of the stories.

Russia does tend to shoot itself in the foot now and again, but I would challenge some of your statement.

The price of oil was already nearing its lowest recent point well before Iran came on-stream, the reason for the low oil value was massive overproduction due to KSA & others wishing to damage US fracking.

When looking at defence budgets, it is more accurate to look at actual $ costs rather than % of GDP, if you do this, it will become clearer to you just who spends the most $ on defence, Russia is not at the top of this list.

Just to be a little more factual about Eastern Ukraine, who was it who actually started the war there??

Closest friend DO NOT shot down each others aircraft by entrapment. (I suspect that the US's hands are also not completely clean in this situation).

The European pipeline, "Turkish stream", had been in doubt long before the Syria situation arose, it was being blocked by Turkey's NATO partner who's main aim was/is to lay several pipelines through Turkey/Syria/KSA/Iraq to supply Europe with gas, in direct competition to Russia. (Those clever enough to understand this will realise why the US was involved with forces against the Syrian government).

The health care budget has remained untouched as far as I am aware, and will remain at the same level as it was last year.

But, again, I agree with you, that Russia has shot itself through the foot on more than one occasion, but there again, there are several other countries in the world also shooting Russia through the foot..

Btw, I heard some fairly good news last week, a Russian company for whom I have done some work for in the past, has won a $400 million contract against US & Chinese companies, to supply its products to non other than the US, good news eh!!!

I have no fear of any repercussions for posting my views about Russia, or any other country for that matter.

[Gipsy]

Russia does more to shoot itself in the foot than the US could ever do to harm it. Russia has done as much as any country to make the price of oil low by pushing get Iran oil back on the market and continue to expand drilling as price came down. The Russia shot itself again in eastern Ukraine. Everyone would have left them alone in one year with just a few light sanctions if they just took Crimea but no they had to turn this into a war. Then Russia lost is closes friend in NATO and the European pipeline when it sanction Turkey. Russia's on going aggressive behavior has scared NATO countries to expand defense budgets. Health care in Russia budget cut as defense budget expands to be by far the largest item in the Russian budget. No European country spends near as large of a percentage of its GDP as Russia on defense nor does the USA. The list goes on but no one will every complain in Russia because of the server consequences to anyone who publish the other side of the stories.

While I would nuance some of the above differently it seems to be a fairly accurate assessment. Historically going back centuries Putin is following a well worn Russian path.

The one success that Vlady can claim is to cause permanent resentment in about 40 million odd people.[/i][/u]

  Way to go! Congratulations 

Lets hope that they find solace within Europe....   

[Anteros]

Or......

You guys are doing your best to isolate Russia and instigate regime change for your own benefit. If you can wean Europe off Russian oil & gas and take the trade over the Atlantic, job done. The american obsession with the old enemy knows no bounds and the contempt many have for Russia is obvious. This type of mentality can only be adopted through years of propaganda and its really sad to see. Even worse, many of these types go looking for a Russian wife....figure that out!

I know it works both ways and there's plenty proof that ones as bad as the other, but currently there's more sympathy towards Russia than i can ever remember. I suspect social media has done wonders for myth busting and governments are finding it harder to hide behind layers of bull shite.

Here's a clip from none other than our favourite FOX. Listen to these two, ignorant jumped up imbeciles spouting their bile on national television. One of them even thinks Europe is a country.

I'm not anti American and I have a lot of time for many of its people. Foreign policy however, disgusting.

Hogwash.  Doing things the hard way, causing their own internal suffering, is a particular Russian trait that no other nation on earth that I know of is capable of.  As Shakespear rightly said, their currency is near garbage and the country is nothing but a feudal state run by thieves.  Their primary occupation is stealing from the Russian people themselves, but always looking for an external boogy man to blame.

[Gipsy]

Or......

You guys are doing your best to isolate Russia and instigate regime change for your own benefit. If you can wean Europe off Russian oil & gas and take the trade over the Atlantic, job done. The american obsession with the old enemy knows no bounds and the contempt many have for Russia is obvious. This type of mentality can only be adopted through years of propaganda and its really sad to see. Even worse, many of these types go looking for a Russian wife....figure that out!

I know it works both ways and there's plenty proof that ones as bad as the other, but currently there's more sympathy towards Russia than i can ever remember. I suspect social media has done wonders for myth busting and governments are finding it harder to hide behind layers of bull shite.

Here's a clip from none other than our favourite FOX. Listen to these two, ignorant jumped up imbeciles spouting their bile on national television. One of them even thinks Europe is a country.

I'm not anti American and I have a lot of time for many of its people. Foreign policy however, disgusting.

Hogwash.  Doing things the hard way, causing their own internal suffering, is a particular Russian trait that no other nation on earth that I know of is capable of.  As Shakespear rightly said, their currency is near garbage and the country is nothing but a feudal state run by thieves.  Their primary occupation is stealing from the Russian people themselves, but always looking for an external boogy man to blame.

And you of course would know from first hand experience of suffering life in such a corrupt country..   

Actually, I would have expected such a response from another member here, but not from a man of high intellect and worldly knowledge as you...

[rosco]

Or......

You guys are doing your best to isolate Russia and instigate regime change for your own benefit. If you can wean Europe off Russian oil & gas and take the trade over the Atlantic, job done. The american obsession with the old enemy knows no bounds and the contempt many have for Russia is obvious. This type of mentality can only be adopted through years of propaganda and its really sad to see. Even worse, many of these types go looking for a Russian wife....figure that out!

I know it works both ways and there's plenty proof that ones as bad as the other, but currently there's more sympathy towards Russia than i can ever remember. I suspect social media has done wonders for myth busting and governments are finding it harder to hide behind layers of bull shite.

Here's a clip from none other than our favourite FOX. Listen to these two, ignorant jumped up imbeciles spouting their bile on national television. One of them even thinks Europe is a country.

I'm not anti American and I have a lot of time for many of its people. Foreign policy however, disgusting.

Hogwash.  Doing things the hard way, causing their own internal suffering, is a particular Russian trait that no other nation on earth that I know of is capable of.  As Shakespear rightly said, their currency is near garbage and the country is nothing but a feudal state run by thieves.  Their primary occupation is stealing from the Russian people themselves, but always looking for an external boogy man to blame.

And you of course would know from first hand experience of suffering life in such a corrupt country..   

Actually, I would have expected such a response from another member here, but not from a man of high intellect and worldly knowledge as you...

The mans breastfed straight from the tit of uncle Sam.

[Texan77]

Or......

You guys are doing your best to isolate Russia and instigate regime change for your own benefit. If you can wean Europe off Russian oil & gas and take the trade over the Atlantic, job done. The american obsession with the old enemy knows no bounds and the contempt many have for Russia is obvious. This type of mentality can only be adopted through years of propaganda and its really sad to see. Even worse, many of these types go looking for a Russian wife....figure that out!

Most of us go for Ukrainian women or those of other FSU countries not Russian women at this time. Regime change in Russia will not likely happen soon as Putin is in too much control including the public opinion at this time. We do not have to isolate Russia, Putin does that for us. But understand that is what is needed for him to stay in power. If there is no big bad west then Russia does not need Putin and his war machine.

When it come to shooting down the Jet in Turkey none of you see at it all from the Turkish side. These people that Russia were bombing are ethnic Turks. Many of them were civilians with relatives in Turkey. Russia is supporting a government in Syria that is very unpopular in Turkey. What would happen if the USA would bomb ethnic Russians in Ukraine to support the government there. Then one of our jets would flown into Russia air space. Russia has this double standard that they can do anything and it is right because they are Russia. Then whine much worse than Donald Trump when it does not go their way.

Russia has used gas price as a weapon in Europe. Europeans are tired of Russia and all of this. Why else would they pay more for gas coming from the USA?

This piece on Fox news was apparently just something they did trying to fill time. These news programs go one for hours and they have got to fill the time. It is, of course, poor quality and sadly FOX does this often. I did not watch all of it but even this bit about the Keystone pipeline was not correct. The oil in this pipeline would have little value at this time with the low price of oil. The oil that this pipeline would bring to market is of low quality and it is cheaper for the refineries to process higher grade oil that is available cheap now. I think Putin would of thought it funny if we would spent the money to build this money losing project.

Understand FOX news is not owned by the USA government and should be seen for what it is. A bunch of people trying to fill air time on TV. Some of what they say has value but most of it does not.

[Anteros]

Or......

You guys are doing your best to isolate Russia and instigate regime change for your own benefit. If you can wean Europe off Russian oil & gas and take the trade over the Atlantic, job done. The american obsession with the old enemy knows no bounds and the contempt many have for Russia is obvious. This type of mentality can only be adopted through years of propaganda and its really sad to see. Even worse, many of these types go looking for a Russian wife....figure that out!

I know it works both ways and there's plenty proof that ones as bad as the other, but currently there's more sympathy towards Russia than i can ever remember. I suspect social media has done wonders for myth busting and governments are finding it harder to hide behind layers of bull shite.

Here's a clip from none other than our favourite FOX. Listen to these two, ignorant jumped up imbeciles spouting their bile on national television. One of them even thinks Europe is a country.

I'm not anti American and I have a lot of time for many of its people. Foreign policy however, disgusting.

Hogwash.  Doing things the hard way, causing their own internal suffering, is a particular Russian trait that no other nation on earth that I know of is capable of.  As Shakespear rightly said, their currency is near garbage and the country is nothing but a feudal state run by thieves.  Their primary occupation is stealing from the Russian people themselves, but always looking for an external boogy man to blame.

And you of course would know from first hand experience of suffering life in such a corrupt country..   

Actually, I would have expected such a response from another member here, but not from a man of high intellect and worldly knowledge as you...

I know Russian history and attitudes better than the average bear.  Please tell me, why at the outset of Operation Barbossa when the Germans invaded the former Soviet Union, the average German soldier was able kill approximately 10 of his Soviet counterparts?  I'm sure you know the answer.  Yet even today, Stalin is held in high regard by some, when in fact it was he who put them in the awful position they were at the start of the war.

Now with your man Mr. Putin at the helm, they rightfully said that Putin resided over a huge growth in the Russian economy and there was actually a middle class emerging.

I'm 100% convinced Putin knew that seizing Crimea would result in sanctions, and invading East Ukraine with his hybrid tactics would keep the sanctions in place.

What better way to stop the middle class of Russia from continuing a normal path of getting the latest technologies and ways of doing things from the West, then to create his "struggle" with the West and in particular the USA?

For example, why would chess master Gary Kasporav need to leave Russia and write a book called "Winter is Coming" about Putin's Russia?

Why was Kodorkovsky in prison for so many years, and then exiled to the West?

You know why.  Putin is a relic of the cold war; a guy who once wanted to remove computers from all official Russian governmental offices and replace them with typewriters.    

Why find a way to do things better, when the number one guy doesn't want it?  Why get with the times and do things efficiently, like most of the World?

So when the middle class is growing and they might ask too many questions, wag the tail of the dog, create a distraction, have your own counter sanctions, create artificial struggle with the West, and keep the jack boot of Putin's inner circle on the neck of the aspirations of normal Russians to have a better economy and life.

[Anteros]

Or......

You guys are doing your best to isolate Russia and instigate regime change for your own benefit. If you can wean Europe off Russian oil & gas and take the trade over the Atlantic, job done. The american obsession with the old enemy knows no bounds and the contempt many have for Russia is obvious. This type of mentality can only be adopted through years of propaganda and its really sad to see. Even worse, many of these types go looking for a Russian wife....figure that out!

I know it works both ways and there's plenty proof that ones as bad as the other, but currently there's more sympathy towards Russia than i can ever remember. I suspect social media has done wonders for myth busting and governments are finding it harder to hide behind layers of bull shite.

Here's a clip from none other than our favourite FOX. Listen to these two, ignorant jumped up imbeciles spouting their bile on national television. One of them even thinks Europe is a country.

I'm not anti American and I have a lot of time for many of its people. Foreign policy however, disgusting.

Hogwash.  Doing things the hard way, causing their own internal suffering, is a particular Russian trait that no other nation on earth that I know of is capable of.  As Shakespear rightly said, their currency is near garbage and the country is nothing but a feudal state run by thieves.  Their primary occupation is stealing from the Russian people themselves, but always looking for an external boogy man to blame.

And you of course would know from first hand experience of suffering life in such a corrupt country..   

Actually, I would have expected such a response from another member here, but not from a man of high intellect and worldly knowledge as you...

The mans breastfed straight from the tit of uncle Sam.

Speaking of breastfeeding and young children, you should ask yourself why the official Belarusian version regarding Chernobyl, birth defects, early deaths of children, etc. due to high nuclear fallout in Gomel has been suppressed?

A particular Russian way of doing things.  Put you head in the sand and pretend there is not a problem.  Of course, I'm only spewing Western propaganda, right?

[Anteros]

Russia does more to shoot itself in the foot than the US could ever do to harm it. Russia has done as much as any country to make the price of oil low by pushing get Iran oil back on the market and continue to expand drilling as price came down. The Russia shot itself again in eastern Ukraine. Everyone would have left them alone in one year with just a few light sanctions if they just took Crimea but no they had to turn this into a war. Then Russia lost is closes friend in NATO and the European pipeline when it sanction Turkey. Russia's on going aggressive behavior has scared NATO countries to expand defense budgets. Health care in Russia budget cut as defense budget expands to be by far the largest item in the Russian budget. No European country spends near as large of a percentage of its GDP as Russia on defense nor does the USA. The list goes on but no one will every complain in Russia because of the server consequences to anyone who publish the other side of the stories.

While I would nuance some of the above differently it seems to be a fairly accurate assessment. Historically going back centuries Putin is following a well worn Russian path.

The one success that Vlady can claim is to cause permanent resentment in about 40 million odd people.[/i][/u]

  Way to go! Congratulations 

Lets hope that they find solace within Europe....   

Let's not.  Let's hope they learn how to build their own country, from the bottom up, into something like what West Germany did in the early 1950's. 

[AvHdB]

One of the basic realities that is common to both Russia and the United States and that is in often overlooked on RUA is there are two similar and parallel forces at ‘play’ in both countries. There is the political and projection of world power of the rulers of each country and these dictate foreign policy.

In Russia there has been an intelligent if not manipulative leader with a clear agenda for more than a decade. Some in America and de facto the greater West see it as evil dictator. There are those Westward of Russia’s current borders that are uncomfortable with this. My opinion Putin is looking out for those he represents

In America a country lacking a clear viewpoint on one side you have a president that for the eight years was unable to stamp is vision on the worlds future, as he wanted it. Than there is the old school that harbours a deep mistrust (perhaps quite rightly so) of what they still perceive as the (evil) Soviet Union.

Than there is Joe Public, in the fly overs, who prefers Budweiser, who more or less follows what ever crap is pushed through mass media, but is suspicious of politicians, lawyers and reporters. He does not have a passport, thinks Europe is filled with foreigners and does not give a rat’s ass what happens on lands an ocean away. He wants to watch in the summer baseball and for the better part of winter American football he knows more professional sports statistics than names of foreign capitals. When the weather permits has frequently a good barbeque. He and his spouse are basically decent and will help a stranger or neighbour with out being cynical or wondering what’s in it for me. He will roll with the punches and come out bruised but standing.

Ivan Ivanoff, has the occasional vodka and cares little to what happens beyond the mother lands borders. He listens and reads state TV of news that is filled with propaganda and sort wonders if this is the whole truth. He works for his family and prizes his shaslik, it’s the best. Generally suspicious of foreigners, and reserved gives them the benefit of the doubt. But he does not understand why they cannot think like him. He does not really care to know the names of foreign capitals. Further he sees little reason to have an international passport only to visit lands that refuse to understand him. He feels strongly about his local soccer and is passionate about the national team even if the coach is a foreigner.  Adversity and difficulties is not a new thing and he will proceed till he reaches his goal.

[Gipsy]

Russia does more to shoot itself in the foot than the US could ever do to harm it. Russia has done as much as any country to make the price of oil low by pushing get Iran oil back on the market and continue to expand drilling as price came down. The Russia shot itself again in eastern Ukraine. Everyone would have left them alone in one year with just a few light sanctions if they just took Crimea but no they had to turn this into a war. Then Russia lost is closes friend in NATO and the European pipeline when it sanction Turkey. Russia's on going aggressive behavior has scared NATO countries to expand defense budgets. Health care in Russia budget cut as defense budget expands to be by far the largest item in the Russian budget. No European country spends near as large of a percentage of its GDP as Russia on defense nor does the USA. The list goes on but no one will every complain in Russia because of the server consequences to anyone who publish the other side of the stories.

While I would nuance some of the above differently it seems to be a fairly accurate assessment. Historically going back centuries Putin is following a well worn Russian path.

The one success that Vlady can claim is to cause permanent resentment in about 40 million odd people.[/i][/u]

  Way to go! Congratulations 

Lets hope that they find solace within Europe....   

Let's not.  Let's hope they learn how to build their own country, from the bottom up, into something like what West Germany did in the early 1950's.

 

[Manny]

Of course, I'm only spewing Western propaganda

 

[Gipsy]

Or......

You guys are doing your best to isolate Russia and instigate regime change for your own benefit. If you can wean Europe off Russian oil & gas and take the trade over the Atlantic, job done. The american obsession with the old enemy knows no bounds and the contempt many have for Russia is obvious. This type of mentality can only be adopted through years of propaganda and its really sad to see. Even worse, many of these types go looking for a Russian wife....figure that out!

I know it works both ways and there's plenty proof that ones as bad as the other, but currently there's more sympathy towards Russia than i can ever remember. I suspect social media has done wonders for myth busting and governments are finding it harder to hide behind layers of bull shite.

Here's a clip from none other than our favourite FOX. Listen to these two, ignorant jumped up imbeciles spouting their bile on national television. One of them even thinks Europe is a country.

I'm not anti American and I have a lot of time for many of its people. Foreign policy however, disgusting.

Hogwash.  Doing things the hard way, causing their own internal suffering, is a particular Russian trait that no other nation on earth that I know of is capable of.  As Shakespear rightly said, their currency is near garbage and the country is nothing but a feudal state run by thieves.  Their primary occupation is stealing from the Russian people themselves, but always looking for an external boogy man to blame.

And you of course would know from first hand experience of suffering life in such a corrupt country..   

Actually, I would have expected such a response from another member here, but not from a man of high intellect and worldly knowledge as you...

The mans breastfed straight from the tit of uncle Sam.

Speaking of breastfeeding and young children, you should ask yourself why the official Belarusian version regarding Chernobyl, birth defects, early deaths of children, etc. due to high nuclear fallout in Gomel has been suppressed?

A particular Russian way of doing things.  Put you head in the sand and pretend there is not a problem.  Of course, I'm only spewing Western propaganda, right?

I would suggest that nobody here will not agree with you that there is still a problem from fallout from Chernobyl.

What is much more important, is:
1, Analyse the root cause of the problem, why it happened, and implement procedures to ensure that it cannot happen again.
2, Ensure that those affected receive the best available assistance to reduce the know risks.

Information from the effects on peoples health in Gomel is also available on the Internet.

http://www.who.int/gho/en/

A good place to start

[Gipsy]

Or......

You guys are doing your best to isolate Russia and instigate regime change for your own benefit. If you can wean Europe off Russian oil & gas and take the trade over the Atlantic, job done. The american obsession with the old enemy knows no bounds and the contempt many have for Russia is obvious. This type of mentality can only be adopted through years of propaganda and its really sad to see. Even worse, many of these types go looking for a Russian wife....figure that out!

I know it works both ways and there's plenty proof that ones as bad as the other, but currently there's more sympathy towards Russia than i can ever remember. I suspect social media has done wonders for myth busting and governments are finding it harder to hide behind layers of bull shite.

Here's a clip from none other than our favourite FOX. Listen to these two, ignorant jumped up imbeciles spouting their bile on national television. One of them even thinks Europe is a country.

I'm not anti American and I have a lot of time for many of its people. Foreign policy however, disgusting.

Hogwash.  Doing things the hard way, causing their own internal suffering, is a particular Russian trait that no other nation on earth that I know of is capable of.  As Shakespear rightly said, their currency is near garbage and the country is nothing but a feudal state run by thieves.  Their primary occupation is stealing from the Russian people themselves, but always looking for an external boogy man to blame.

And you of course would know from first hand experience of suffering life in such a corrupt country..   

Actually, I would have expected such a response from another member here, but not from a man of high intellect and worldly knowledge as you...

I know Russian history and attitudes better than the average bear.  Please tell me, why at the outset of Operation Barbossa when the Germans invaded the former Soviet Union, the average German soldier was able kill approximately 10 of his Soviet counterparts?  I'm sure you know the answer.  Yet even today, Stalin is held in high regard by some, when in fact it was he who put them in the awful position they were at the start of the war.

Now with your man Mr. Putin at the helm, they rightfully said that Putin resided over a huge growth in the Russian economy and there was actually a middle class emerging.

I'm 100% convinced Putin knew that seizing Crimea would result in sanctions, and invading East Ukraine with his hybrid tactics would keep the sanctions in place.

What better way to stop the middle class of Russia from continuing a normal path of getting the latest technologies and ways of doing things from the West, then to create his "struggle" with the West and in particular the USA?

For example, why would chess master Gary Kasporav need to leave Russia and write a book called "Winter is Coming" about Putin's Russia?

Why was Kodorkovsky in prison for so many years, and then exiled to the West?

You know why.  Putin is a relic of the cold war; a guy who once wanted to remove computers from all official Russian governmental offices and replace them with typewriters.    

Why find a way to do things better, when the number one guy doesn't want it?  Why get with the times and do things efficiently, like most of the World?

So when the middle class is growing and they might ask too many questions, wag the tail of the dog, create a distraction, have your own counter sanctions, create artificial struggle with the West, and keep the jack boot of Putin's inner circle on the neck of the aspirations of normal Russians to have a better economy and life.

Later when I have more time...

[AvHdB]

My opinion this thread should be cleaned up and a new thread split off.

[Gipsy]

I know Russian history and attitudes better than the average bear.  Please tell me, why at the outset of Operation Barbossa when the Germans invaded the former Soviet Union, the average German soldier was able kill approximately 10 of his Soviet counterparts?  I'm sure you know the answer.  Yet even today, Stalin is held in high regard by some, when in fact it was he who put them in the awful position they were at the start of the war.

Without wishing to defend the evil Stalin in any way, we have to assess what his options were in this situation.
He had an small army, and an untrained large body of men, they had a rifle between 6 of them, and 5-10 rounds of ammo.
The question facing him was very simple, pull as much as possible in such a short time back to the Urals, or put this body of men with some of his army to face the well trained, battle hardened, well equipped German army and air force (which Stalin also lacked), knowing that few would survive, but, they may just be able to slow up the German advance to win enough time to acquire more arms, ammunition, equipment, training of men.
What exactly would you do??

Now with your man Mr. Putin at the helm, they rightfully said that Putin resided over a huge growth in the Russian economy and there was actually a middle class emerging.

It did and is continuing to grow.

I'm 100% convinced Putin knew that seizing Crimea would result in sanctions, and invading East Ukraine with his hybrid tactics would keep the sanctions in place.

He probably knew that the west would react to Crimea, as the wets wanted Crimea for a NATO base.
There was NO invasion of eastern Ukraine, get your facts right..

What better way to stop the middle class of Russia from continuing a normal path of getting the latest technologies and ways of doing things from the West, then to create his "struggle" with the West and in particular the USA?

Although pre Crimea open sanctions were not in place, secret sanctions had been going on for many years.
Also, the western ways of doing "Things" are not always the best, much depends upon the cultures.

For example, why would chess master Gary Kasporav need to leave Russia and write a book called "Winter is Coming" about Putin's Russia?

A failed politician riddled with jealousy, who also wished to jump on and control the bandwagon, the same as any of the mob, he was/is just as corrupt as any of them, but, because they didn't like him/his policies/vision, he tried/is still trying to show the world how right he was and how much better Russia would have been with him at the helm, a typical waste of space like the rest of them.

Why was Kodorkovsky in prison for so many years, and then exiled to the West?

Because he was/is corrupt/greedy beyond compare and got his fingers caught in the till.
That he got away with Billions of $ which he still has is unrelated of course.

You know why.  Putin is a relic of the cold war; a guy who once wanted to remove computers from all official Russian governmental offices and replace them with typewriters.   

Computers can and are very often hacked, what better way to stop such events than to give everyone word processors instead. (Check how many wp's are in use in the uS govt areas, you may be very much surprised. 

Why find a way to do things better, when the number one guy doesn't want it?  Why get with the times and do things efficiently, like most of the World?

The number 1 guy does want it, the past 8 years have seen massive investment in these areas, but its a very difficult process, remember just how long it has taken others to become more efficient, or for how long the US has been trying to catch up with the Japanese..

So when the middle class is growing and they might ask too many questions, wag the tail of the dog, create a distraction, have your own counter sanctions, create artificial struggle with the West, and keep the jack boot of Putin's inner circle on the neck of the aspirations of normal Russians to have a better economy and life.

That's probably the most nearly accurate statement that you have made.
In defence, one can argue that the counter sanctions have produced excellent results so far and are improving as I write, Russia is losing the need of the previously excessive amounts of imports which made them lazy, now they have woken up to the reality that they are capable of producing the majority of the previously imported products themselves, and at a better cost.

[AvHdB]

I know Russian history and attitudes better than the average bear.  Please tell me, why at the outset of Operation Barbossa when the Germans invaded the former Soviet Union, the average German soldier was able kill approximately 10 of his Soviet counterparts?  I'm sure you know the answer.  Yet even today, Stalin is held in high regard by some, when in fact it was he who put them in the awful position they were at the start of the war.

Without wishing to defend the evil Stalin in any way, we have to assess what his options were in this situation.
He had an small army, and an untrained large body of men, they had a rifle between 6 of them, and 5-10 rounds of ammo.
The question facing him was very simple, pull as much as possible in such a short time back to the Urals, or put this body of men with some of his army to face the well trained, battle hardened, well equipped German army and air force (which Stalin also lacked), knowing that few would survive, but, they may just be able to slow up the German advance to win enough time to acquire more arms, ammunition, equipment, training of men.
What exactly would you do??

For start I would listen to your military advisors & generals who warned the Third Reich was coming, instead of executing them.

I am having business lunch shortly so I will answer the other points latter on.