De-Dollarisation.

[cufflinks]

In addition, Apple, for example, makes almost nothing in the US - they used to do back when I was selling their kit, but no longer. They made big claims a couple of years ago about starting up manufacture in the US - turned out it was assembly of Chinese kits. I don't know what the outcome of that was but it was hardly the Great Leap Forward in U.S manufacturing that was claimed at the time.

IBM, last year sold their x86 server business to Lenovo, a Chinese business that you may have heard of. Odd thing about that though, IBM did not manufacture these systems in the U.S. Lenovo will be doing at least some manufacture of these servers in the U.S.

You are making the naive error that many folks make of assuming that just because it says a name written in English on the pack that it is made in the U.S. There's a big difference between exporting manufacture and retaining manufacture in the 'home' market.

Youd've thought an International Banker and businessman would know about this stuff, yes?

Here's a part of the problem though - keeping Americans in an uneducated state enables all sorts of terrible things to be foisted off on them. I bet that most North Americans here still think that all their favourite 'American' cars are made in the US. 

LOL Most of Americans Favorite Cars have Japanese Names and made in advanced robotic factories the Japanese built long ago in the USA - Toyota last I checked had 12 major plants...  One of VWs most advanced Robotic plant is iirc in Tennesee and BMW and Mercedes have USA plants as well - why - the USA natgaz fracking revolution guarantees plentiful cheap supplies of energy for the next 200 years and carve a factory out of a giant tobacco or corn filed and you get land - lotsa land and the starry skies above ... Fiat now owns jeep chrysler and then their is FORD an international company that took NO bailouts and of course GM which makes all of its profits from its China plants - for now.

Fact is USA Dollar Volume of Manufacturing in the USA is greater than ever - all advanced robotics.  Advanced robotics coming to McDonalds and Starbux as California continues to increase minimum wages to $15 per hour and Equalizes womens wages with men - subsequent to the Cal reports that 72 cents on the dollar was a lite it is now 84 cents on the dollar and among recent college grads - 52% of all new professional grads are daddies little girls and they are earning more to start than their brothers.

Not one major Chinese manufacturing plant in the USA comparable to the massive plants in the Land of Mao - though due to cheap USA energy costs for the next few centuries and plenty of non Fukushima irradiated land many Chinese firms looking hard at the USA - except that the heirs to Maos one party rule do not want to export too many Chinese workers that will spread the truth of the USA back home - compared to living conditions in China - you can drink the water and breathe the air in the USA - the USA is an industrial paradise even Detroit rebuilding...

Welcome to 2015.

[Manny]

Synopsis of a conversation with a chap today in China who owns a factory:

"How much are these if I take 5000?"
"$X each"
"Why are we talking dollars in China when I am not American? Do we need to use a currency foreign to both of us? I'd prefer not to use dollars."
"I agree with you, our government is trying to get people away from using the dollar actually, its outdated for us now, its just habit. Pounds or RMB?"
"RMB is fine"
"RMB it is"

An interesting side conversation we had as a result of that exchange covered Russia, Syria and America. He said their media is now talking about American aggression across the world where they seldom did before. He also said the discussion in Chinese media had started about China joining in with Russia in Syria.

We discussed Russia, he said Russia and Putin are generally well regarded in China. Certainly, there are no shortage of Russians at the trade fair I am at here in China. It is the language I hear most after Chinese and English. He said despite the Rouble being weaker, Russians are still buying. They are just haggling more.

Dry humour is something you seldom see in the Chinese. I asked him if he had similar political conversations with his American customers, he said, "What can you tell them? They all watch CNN". Made me laugh anyway.........

Needless to say, a deal was done, and not in dollars.

[andrewfi]

Yes Cufflinks, not the point under discussion, but you have noticed that the USA has changed from being a leader to being a price leader.

That's why foreign firms set up in the USA. It is cheaper for them and look what they make, stuff that is relatively expensive to move around. Not much of what they make is re-exported.

Whilst you pat yourself on the back for living in the same country as some factories from foreign investors, look at the way in which they came to be there. Hardly any came without very substantial bribes. Look at how wages have fallen - and they have. These days I can hire a U.S coder for the same kind of money as an Indian.

Pat yourself on the back when those factories open up without paying bribes. When the workers get the same wages as they'd have gotten in unionised plants elsewhere in the U.S. basically, when U.S factories are not competing on price but on quality! There's a reason why we in the rest of the world don't like to buy U.S re-exported cars from some bumfuk  factory in the middle of the Appalachians. You don't get the choice and don't know the difference.

[cufflinks]

Since Afi you HATE all things American due to it having replaced the once global glory of the British Empire - you ought to love this about one of your former colonies who also told you lot to sod the eff off:

http://news.yahoo.com/china-billionaires-overtake-us-survey-071448210--finance.html

I was actually surprised considering the recent market meltdowns in China yet the march of the NCBs or Nouveau Chinese Billionaires marches on amazing really how China is now the new Russia.

Corporate factory industrial real estate in the USA to boom as a result.

Chinese Billionaires absolutely LOVE the USA for many many reasons.

Removed.

Yuan and Renminbi converted happily in the USA to purchase land for factories and crash pads and world class educations for their family members for a modest fee of course.

Moderate your language Cuffy - Leslied

[WestCoast]

Synopsis of a conversation with a chap today in China who owns a factory:

"How much are these if I take 5000?"
"$X each"
"Why are we talking dollars in China when I am not American? Do we need to use a currency foreign to both of us? I'd prefer not to use dollars."
"I agree with you, our government is trying to get people away from using the dollar actually, its outdated for us now, its just habit. Pounds or RMB?"
"RMB is fine"
"RMB it is"

Manny why are you so quick to trash USD? If you're willing to pay in RMB you should at least negotiate for some type of discount for doing business in RMB. It's done all the time. You may only get 1/4% or 1/2% discount but better the money in your pocket than his.

An interesting side conversation we had as a result of that exchange covered Russia, Syria and America. He said their media is now talking about American aggression across the world where they seldom did before. He also said the discussion in Chinese media had started about China joining in with Russia in Syria.

Manny, the US and its activities around the world have always been in the news in China. How do I know this? My wife is Chinese born and speaks Mandarin and Shanghainese (language of the Shanghai region). I speak Mandarin well enough to understand the news and read articles. At home we have all the Chinese language TV channels. After all, China wants to replace the US as #1 in the world so the state run media in China isn't going to be talking about countries like the UK and Russia which are even lower down the global superpower list than China. 

Tensions over the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea and the possibility of the US military overflying the islands or sailing ships through the area have recently made for even more tensions. China sending their military to Syria and the possibility of dealing with the US is also making the news.

We discussed Russia, he said Russia and Putin are generally well regarded in China. Certainly, there are no shortage of Russians at the trade fair I am at here in China. It is the language I hear most after Chinese and English. He said despite the Rouble being weaker, Russians are still buying. They are just haggling more.

Dry humour is something you seldom see in the Chinese. I asked him if he had similar political conversations with his American customers, he said, "What can you tell them? They all watch CNN". Made me laugh anyway.........

Needless to say, a deal was done, and not in dollars.

Yet China hasn't recognised Russia's annexation of Crimea nor have Chinese banks made up for the financing Russian banks have lost due to EU and US sanctions.

[andrewfi]

Cufflinks, unlike some, I don't do hate. I leave that to shaved apes and other animals - you see yourself there obviously. Hate removes the ability to think, those who can't think can easily hate.

There are very good reasons for Chinese billionaires to 'love' the U.S, or to more realistically, love spending their surplus dollars there. Don't allow yourself to get emotion and practicality confused - my guess is that this has been a career limiting issue with you across your entire adult life. Your posts drip with the envy of those who you consider better off than you - but you could've been one of those people - except that they tend to think and not emote.

Envy, such a negative emotion, locking its victims into their poverty.

So, have a think about why it is that the U.S is a great place for foreign people with lots of dollars to be 'real' assets.
Think about China's macro economic policies and consider their economic refocusing. This will require you to do more than read Maxim or the freebie newsletters hawking the latest financial trick to fool the gullible like you.

When you understand what China is doing then you will understand why they are in your country getting 'free' real estate.

Not hate, not envy - but real stuff, based upon sound analysis.

[cufflinks]

Cufflinks, unlike some, I don't do hate. I leave that to shaved apes and other animals - you see yourself there obviously. Hate removes the ability to think, those who can't think can easily hate.

There are very good reasons for Chinese billionaires to 'love' the U.S, or to more realistically, love spending their surplus dollars there. Don't allow yourself to get emotion and practicality confused - my guess is that this has been a career limiting issue with you across your entire adult life. Your posts drip with the envy of those who you consider better off than you - but you could've been one of those people - except that they tend to think and not emote.

Envy, such a negative emotion, locking its victims into their poverty.

So, have a think about why it is that the U.S is a great place for foreign people with lots of dollars to be 'real' assets.
Think about China's macro economic policies and consider their economic refocusing. This will require you to do more than read Maxim or the freebie newsletters hawking the latest financial trick to fool the gullible like you.

When you understand what China is doing then you will understand why they are in your country getting 'free' real estate.

Not hate, not envy - but real stuff, based upon sound analysis.

Now you are a delusional bold faced liar but we on this side of the pond and of course Moby on your side have known that for quite some time now.

[AvHdB]

Cufflinks, unlike some, I don't do hate. I leave that to shaved apes and other animals - you see yourself there obviously. Hate removes the ability to think, those who can't think can easily hate.

Not hate, not envy - but real stuff, based upon sound analysis.

Andrew does not hate. His attitude it is in way worse a sort of aggressive dismissal, if one does not concur with HIS line of thinking he will dismiss your opinions, in one way or the other. If one points out discrepancies or untruths in his posts, his reaction is to label you negatively. When suggested that he apologize he will turn the suggestion on its head and state you own him an apology, for his being an arse.

Such is our FiFi. Yes at times he can make an insightful post, but they are few and far between. Mostly though it is vile bile.

[Donhollio]

Dry humour is something you seldom see in the Chinese. I asked him if he had similar political conversations with his American customers, he said, "What can you tell them? They all watch CNN". Made me laugh anyway.........

CNN's ratings have been tanking for some years now. Some nights they have non news programs, so I don't know why you think us non Putin surfs get all our news from them. But I guess its an easy target for you to continually point out, albeit completely false.

[msmoby]

Needless to say, a deal was done, and not in dollars.

Manny

You aren't the only person buying from China and the biggest broker site in the world -  Alibaba has a retail site ..aliexpress..

Try to find me YUAN as a payment option... 

[Manny]

Needless to say, a deal was done, and not in dollars.

Manny

You aren't the only person buying from China and the biggest broker site in the world -  Alibaba has a retail site ..aliexpress..

Try to find me YUAN as a payment option...

Ali Express is a foreign facing retail site. It accepts a range of foreign currencies.

[andrewfi]

AvHdB, when was the last time that you claimed I was wrong about a matter of fact where, in fact I WAS wrong?

Go on, give it a whirl.

Please understand you already know that I am well prepared when I write stuff, you have tried to catch me out before and it cost you a lot of money to find out your error. I am not perfect though and thus, I learn.

So, if your feathers get ruffled when I point out that your suggestions are, once again, unfounded that is your weakness, not mine.

However, when people like you make big claims that are unsubstantiated, when you write as though you are inebriated, when you write like an idiot, then you are going to have to forgive me, I am not a saint and am not blessed with the patience of one.

So, if you want to dispute something I write then get your facts straight because that is how you get challenged and if that upsets you, well, get the facts straight and problem goes away.

[msmoby]

Ali Express is a foreign facing retail site. It accepts a range of foreign currencies.

Sighs

They are  part of alibaba and the wholesalers perfer  usd  in my experience ..of a LONG time

[WestCoast]

Needless to say, a deal was done, and not in dollars.

Manny

You aren't the only person buying from China and the biggest broker site in the world -  Alibaba has a retail site ..aliexpress..

Try to find me YUAN as a payment option...

I should put out to both Manny and Moby that the stock price for Alibaba has tanked since its IPO. The company and the Chinese economy as a whole might be tanking. Or maybe management is just terrible.

[Manny]

Ali Express is a foreign facing retail site. It accepts a range of foreign currencies.

Sighs

They are  part of alibaba and the wholesalers perfer  usd  in my experience ..of a LONG time

They are stuck in a rut, indeed. But it will change as the Chinese policy of dumping the dollar continues.

I found out today in China that many Russians wont use dollars now, they are paying in RMB.

I am not referring to people buying odds and sods off Ali Express, of course.

[msmoby]

They are stuck in a rut, indeed. But it will change as the Chinese policy of dumping the dollar continues.

I found out today in China that many Russians wont use dollars now, they are paying in RMB.

I am not referring to people buying odds and sods off Ali Express, of course.

We pay in RUB / GBP / EUR /USD - depending on the destination.

[Manny]

and the Chinese economy as a whole might be tanking.

Looking at the heaving restaurants, frantic shopping and the wheels here, including Italian supercars, Rollers, Bentleys Astons, and at the border with HK there was a Maybach in the queue, it would seem nobody looks too concerned. Indeed, the trade fair is busier than ever. Quite a few Africans doing business too as well as the Russians. Not seen too many Yanks though (and you normally hear them before you see them, but they can be picked out easily in a crowd anyway.)

[andrewfi]

China is doing something that the British did, but that the U.S did not quite get the hang of. Your mention of Africans highlights this matter. The Chinese are busy in Africa, and other places, investing in the countries, very often with appropriate infrastructure projects. The idea has several benefits.
1) This builds relationships with local authorities and businesses
2) Chinese firms and services are often the chosen contractors for the projects
3) because these projects are appropriate the wealth of the country increases through the use of the created infrastructure

The U.S through the World Bank only ever really got the hang of the first two points. U.S firms increased their wealth from the projects, the projects tended to be a way to 'legitimately' buy off the local supremo but in almost no cases was the overall wealth of the country increased as a result of, very often, indeed normally, inappropriate projects.

Now African firms are trotting off to China to buy new stuff with new wealth which will increase both their countries wealth in a virtuous cycle. How much of that increased wealth is heading toward the U.S?

[Manny]

Now African firms are trotting off to China to buy new stuff with new wealth which will increase both their countries wealth in a virtuous cycle. How much of that increased wealth is heading toward the U.S?

Not just firms. While out shopping today there were loads of them mooching about. I found out they fly in with empty suitcases and fly out with full ones of all sorts, but mostly small electronics/electrical. Stuff they can make good profit on in Africa. Shops wont take dollars, so whatever they bring they must go to the money change kiosk. The very place I dumped some dollars I had today. As it happens, they complained some of my $100 dollar bills were "old design" but after bickering, took them anyway.

[andrewfi]

Not just firms. While out shopping today there were loads of them mooching about. I found out they fly in with empty suitcases and fly out with full ones of all sorts, but mostly small electronics/electrical. Stuff they can make good profit on in Africa.

That's the same kind of trade as used to go on between China and Russia. To Some degree also, between Finland and Russia. Except that those people used buses and trains and those immense woven carrier bags - you know the ones, white with little blue and red stripes.

They'd move whatever made money. From Saint Petersburg they'd be on the bus exporting ciggies and alcohol and on the way back with clothes, electronic toys, whatever.
It was quite a thing. When they arrived at Helsinki they were usually on the cheap buses so they'd be dropped off near to the port area, by the School of Economics. All the folks who 'knew' would be there to buy from these folks, they didn't need to move away from the bus to shift their goodies. Then off into town to pick up the return stock. Some of the 'exporters' would be selling stuff when the bus stopped on the way to Helsinki.

You'd see the ones from China by the train stations in Moscow and to some degree in SPb.

I bet that some of those people ended up making enough money to start 'proper' businesses. Anyway, it is a good sign, there are people moving up the value chain and that bodes well for the future.

[cufflinks]

It appears the left had in China is unaware of what the right hand is doing, the Chinese want their cake and to eat it too - trading partners be damned - I rally can't wait to vote for President Trump lets see who launches the first nukes:

Three of today's headlines:
http://www.valuewalk.com/2015/10/china-us-military-war/?ref=yfp

China taking over the South China Seas
China Ready To Use Military Force If US Violates Its Territorial Waters
As the U.S. mulls sending warships within 12 miles of the artificial islands built by China in the South China Sea, Beijing has issued a stern warning to Washington. On Tuesday, the U.S. Defense Secretary Ashton Carter said the U.S. will sail and fly wherever international laws allow, and the South China Sea is no exception.

http://news.yahoo.com/chinese-firms-want-build-finance-california-high-speed-020507770--business.html

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - A team of Chinese firms, along with the Export-Import Bank of China, wants to build and finance a large part of California’s proposed 800-mile high-speed rail project.

The firms expressed their interest last month in a 23-page document sent to the California High-Speed Rail Authority. The authority asked private companies from around the globe to help shape the state's strategy to launch the first stage of its train line, considered the most ambitious infrastructure project in the United States.  (California is served by air service now who is going to want to be going 200mph+ when and earthqukes hits in the most seismic active US state on the Pac Rim of Fire?)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/steve-wynn-45-years-experience-211659770.html
Wynn's "this" is Macau.

And what he's seeing is what happens when the Chinese government turns its back on your business.

Wynn made these comments on a conference call following another quarter of dismal earnings. His company's stock fell 7.5% as he spoke.

Angrily.

Wynn's third-quarter earnings missed analyst estimates of $1.03 billion in revenue, delivering $996.3 million. At the same time last year — while Macau's slowdown was also apparent — the casino hauled in $1.3 billion in revenue.

"The decline was the result of a 37.9% net-revenue decrease from our Macau operations and a 3.9% net-revenue decrease from our Las Vegas operations," said Wynn in its release statement.

To paint the picture even more clearly, in the first quarter of this year Wynn's Macau revenue fell 32% from the same time a year before.

In the second quarter, they fell 35% from the same time a year before.

This is getting worse

For over a year the Chinese government has been cracking down on gambling in Macau, the world's biggest gambling center.

Anyone who invests a dime in China not too mention billions needs to learn this Macau lesson.

Would not surprise me to see China drive these properties to bankruptcy and then take them over as Gov Owned Entities. 

China SUX.

[WestCoast]

I really want to see if the US will overfly and/or sail through the Spratly Islands that China is claiming as theirs. I really can't see Obama allowing it. When it comes to confrontation he's too much of a pacifist. A confrontation on this issue with China could go very bad very quickly, even quicker than fighting in Syria.

[Manny]

China Ready To Use Military Force If US Violates Its Territorial Waters
As the U.S. mulls sending warships within 12 miles of the artificial islands built by China in the South China Sea, Beijing has issued a stern warning to Washington.

China is correct here, they should stop you lot by whatever means. They know you prefer to fight with camel jockeys rather than countries with a real army, so you will comply.

What we are really seeing here with stuff like this, and de-dollarisation, is what Putin has spoke of many times: A move away from a unipolar world. It will take the US a while to adjust, and they wont do so quietly as I have said before.

[Steveboy]

I really want to see if the US will overfly and/or sail through the Spratly Islands that China is claiming as theirs. I really can't see Obama allowing it. When it comes to confrontation he's too much of a pacifist. A confrontation on this issue with China could go very bad very quickly, even quicker than fighting in Syria.

Yes would be interesting to see how the Big Mouth US gets on here. I think they will back off like a little scolded school boy

Wimps when it comes to standing up to someone bigger than themselves….

[cufflinks]

I really want to see if the US will overfly and/or sail through the Spratly Islands that China is claiming as theirs. I really can't see Obama allowing it. When it comes to confrontation he's too much of a pacifist. A confrontation on this issue with China could go very bad very quickly, even quicker than fighting in Syria.

Yeah the Bloody Chinese Buggers will LOSE their one market of suckers giving them a $300 Billion annual Trade Surplus and single handedly responsible for funding the rebuilding of their entire bloody nation and military.

The Spratly concrete and sand Atolls were built with US supplied monies - time to invade them and plant our rightful flags of ownership.  The Chinese are the world's most predatory capitalists and worship money - they are addicted to the US open markets and the Chinese Red Army and Maritime forces will do what the Chinese Red Communist Politburo tells them to do in the end which is to stand down and not risk their USA gravy train. 

If not this is as good as any time to go full on strategic nuclear before Obama totally disarms our nuclear triumvirate - land, air and sea launched ICBMs and the Chinese have a lot more souls to lose than the USA - a righteous fire and brimstone thinning of the herds is long overdue.

Lob a few into Syria for good measure - might as well bring the UK, Euros, Israelis and Rooskies in to the after glow party.

Considering the Chinese Yin and yang concepts of strength and weakness being complimentary combined with the the consensus of the world that the USA and Obama are inept and weak - this is now the very best time for the wounded US Grizzly Bears to go full on preemptive - the world would not know what hit it and our Star Wars nuclear defense systems work very well indeed.

What has Obama to lose as he is likely to be prosecuted for war crimes anyway...  might as well solve climate change with a prolonged nuclear winter.