Discussion about Media Article Links on the Troubles in Ukraine/Novorossiya Topic

[cufflinks]

I am starting to wonder about the Russian ruling clique and their grasp upon reality:

http://news.yahoo.com/russias-lavrov-lauds-africa-pillar-world-order-190135282.html

Praising Robert Mogabe as a legend and Pillar in Africa - a white hating and killing fascist who starves his own people and destroyed his own economy WTF?

http://theweek.com/article/index/268137/russia-is-stealthily-threatening-america-with-nuclear-war

Really with Ancient Turbo Prop Jobs that satellites can now track as soon as they take off - who writes this Crap about Russia threatening Nuclear War - sounds like the Neocons in full swing now that they have lost Iraq to I.S. and Afghanistan to the Taliban.

Actually an interesting article on New FSU "de-facto" countries:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/09/16/ukraines-breakaway-region-is-becoming-a-de-facto-country/

[cufflinks]

http://247wallst.com/energy-business/2014/09/21/russian-sanctions-force-exxon-to-pull-out-of-arctic-project/

Ooops there goes a nice chunk of the profits that would help fund both USA and UK pension fund beneficiaries not to mention the UK NHS - yes BP was also a major partner in this agreement - looks like China will be stepping in to the breach...

[cufflinks]

http://news.yahoo.com/khodorkovsky-launches-movement-challenge-putin-193938861.html

Putin foe Khodorkovsky 'willing to lead Russia'

Moscow (AFP) - Ex-tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky, who spent a decade in jail after challenging the Kremlin, openly stated his political ambitions on Saturday by announcing he would be ready, if called upon, to lead Russia in times of crisis.

Russia needs government investment to avoid recession, says former finance minister Reuters
By publicly voicing his readiness to take on the country's top job, the man who was once Russia's richest appears to have broken a promise to steer clear of politics which he made after being pardoned by President Vladimir Putin in December.

"I would not be interested in the idea of becoming president of Russia at a time when the country would be developing normally," he was quoted as saying by Le Monde newspaper.

"But if it appeared necessary to overcome the crisis and to carry out constitutional reform, the essence of which would be to redistribute presidential powers in favour of the judiciary, parliament and civil society, then I would be ready to take on this part of the task."

The comments were made as Khodorkovsky, 51, launched an online movement dubbed Open Russia to unite pro-European Russians in a bid to challenge Putin's grip on power.

[Manny]

He didn't learn anything in prison did he?

Ex-tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky, who spent a decade in jail after challenging the Kremlin, openly stated his political ambitions on Saturday by announcing he would be ready, if called upon, to lead Russia in times of crisis.

Translation: "If there is to be an American funded colour revolution in Russia, can I be Obama's puppet president?"

[WestCoast]

He didn't learn anything in prison did he?

Ex-tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky, who spent a decade in jail after challenging the Kremlin, openly stated his political ambitions on Saturday by announcing he would be ready, if called upon, to lead Russia in times of crisis.

Translation: "If there is to be an American funded colour revolution in Russia, can I be Obama's puppet president?"

I agree Khodorkovsky didn't learn anything in jail. You'd think after a decade in jail on Putin's orders Mikhail Khodorkovsky would've learned Putin is a vengeful dictator and would probably not hesitate to jail him again if he pisses off Putin.

[Markje]

He didn't learn anything in prison did he?

Ex-tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky, who spent a decade in jail after challenging the Kremlin, openly stated his political ambitions on Saturday by announcing he would be ready, if called upon, to lead Russia in times of crisis.

Translation: "If there is to be an American funded colour revolution in Russia, can I be Obama's puppet president?"

Wasn't one of the explicit conditions of his release that he never return to politics ?
 

[andrewfi]

My guess is that there's more to this than meets the eye. Moscow is on a mission to identify and root out the fifth column, that group that, on the whole tends to support rapprochement with the US neoconservative goals and thus a Russia that is economically subservient to the US.

Having a 'lightning conductor' who becomes a point to which energy flows and thus picks up support may be a useful strategy. If I am wrong then something bad will happen to a man who will have proven himself to be unreliable, dishonest and untrustworthy and thus no longer eligible for the parole that he was given.

[bagalia]

IMHO Khodorkovsky is not such a bad guy though I am not sure where he fits into the spectrum. I think he learned a couple things in prison. One was the idea of revenge for the taking of a decade of his life away. The other was to leave the country before doing what he is doing now. Don't think America has anything to do with his thinking at all. Could well be that he will just fade away.

[Danchik]

The West has made somewhat of a hero out of Khodorkovsky when in reality the guy was nothing more than a common thief; albeit a smart, connected one.

I think you'll find that people/governments in the West have a far greater respect for him than most in Russia.

FYI, all the oligarchs in Russia knew the rules when they became oligarchs during privitazation. They also knew that not playing by the rules afterwards would have consequences. As smart as Khodorkovsky was/is, his ego got in the way. And while some of his intentions were legit and honest after he "earned" his money, his rise to the financial mountaintop was anything but.

Getting in bed (or trying to) with the West was his downfall.

He has no future in Russia and Russians sure and the hell don't trust him, despite the protests from his relatively few followers.   

[cufflinks]

The West has made somewhat of a hero out of Khodorkovsky when in reality the guy was nothing more than a common thief; albeit a smart, connected one.

I think you'll find that people/governments in the West have a far greater respect for him than most in Russia.

FYI, all the oligarchs in Russia knew the rules when they became oligarchs during privitazation. They also knew that not playing by the rules afterwards would have consequences. As smart as Khodorkovsky was/is, his ego got in the way. And while some of his intentions were legit and honest after he "earned" his money, his rise to the fiscal mountaintop was anything but.

Getting in bed (or trying to) with the West was his downfall.

He has no future in Russia and Russians sure and the hell don't trust him, despite the protests from his relatively few followers.

Putin is a master strategist and made an example out of Khodorkovsky and dismantled Yukos, Nationalized its assets for pennies on the rouble to scare all hell out of all the other Russian Jewish Oligarchs - deal was you can keep your wealth if 1. you Take Governorship of a remote provice and make it as successful as your other businesses and 2. You stay the bloody hell out of politics and be loyal to United Russia -  and then Magnitsky to teach the USA Hermitage Corporate Raiding Green Mailer and Vulture Capitalist Bill Browder a serious lesson let his lawyer die in prison form neglect http://lawandorderinrussia.org/  - and then http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Alexander_Litvinenko  there is always polonium... 

Point is MK is still alive and well - and reports are he was allowed to retain several hundred million$ in wealth likely already in Switzerland - so a pardon by Putin was to show the world and other Oligarchs  that if you play ball, do what you are told and help build up (remote provinces as appointed governor) then you can keep and improve your wealth - if not the FSB and Military intelligence of Russia has many ways of dealing with you...

[andrewfi]

Cufflinks, while you got a little more factually correct than most others in your part of the world, and for that a genuine 'huzzah' the central plank of your post is set upon an incorrect understanding of 'stuff that happened'.

Mikhail Khodorkovsky was not given any favour by Putin, there was no lesson taught by his release. Was released from his sentence and paroled as a part of a general amnesty, he was simply a part of the amnesty group that included members of the action protest group Pussy Riot and a load of environmental protesters popularly associated with Greenpeace.

The amnesty was not given for popularity or to polish the president's reputation because, as you'd know from reading Russian media, none of the people released has any significant degree of standing or approval in Russia.

There WAS a deal between oligarchs and the government and it was negotiated with individuals, face to face many years ago and, yes, Khodorkovsky broke that agreement but he was tried for tax evasion, found guilty - because he was guilty and sentenced for his crimes to a shorter term than he might have received for similar crimes elsewhere. Even his appeal to the ECHR failed because the evidence supported the conviction.

However, he did appeal for a remission and he did make certain undertakings that he is now breaking: http://voiceofrussia.com/uk/news/2013_12_22/Khodorkovsky-pledges-to-stay-out-of-politics-8257/
If these breaches break any form of parole then he may find himself in hot water again with no sympathy from Russians or the government.

[andrewfi]

Ukrainian army accused of using cluster bombs on civillian areas 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29702522

It is good that this is finally getting out into the wider world. Hopefully soon awareness of the use of phosphorous munitions and the use of ballistic missiles against civilian targets.

It is certainly true that as in any war things happen that are wrong, evil and gross. Atrocities committed by all conflicting parties, but to be targeting civilians, their housing and infrastructure as a consistent policy is a whole different level of malice.

[WestCoast]

A Downing St Petition:

No to Nato military exercises in Ukraine

Responsible department: Ministry of Defence

We note with great concern that UK and US troops are scheduled to participate in joint military exercises in Ukraine in July as part of NATO’s Rapid Trident manoeuvres. Ukraine is not a member of NATO. Its participation in military exercises by a nuclear-armed alliance with a first-strike policy can only further destabilise the country.

We call on the British government to urge the US and other NATO governments to cancel the Rapid Trident exercise, and to give a plain and public undertaking that Britain will not participate.

Initial signatories:
Lindsey German, convenor of Stop the War Coalition
Kate Hudson, general secretary of CND
Caroline Lucas MP
Jeremy Corbyn MP
John Rees, Stop the War Coalition
Baroness Jenny Tonge
Ken Loach, film and TV director
Mark Rylance, actor
Miriam Margolyes OBE actor
Michael Rosen, author and broadcaster
Salma Yaqoob, former leader of the Respect Party
Andrew Murray, chief of staff for Unite union

Anyone that wants to sign it can do so here: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/64756

12 signatures? They need a better PR team. 

[NS1]

Ukrainian army accused of using cluster bombs on civillian areas 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29702522

It is good that this is finally getting out into the wider world. Hopefully soon awareness of the use of phosphorous munitions and the use of ballistic missiles against civilian targets.

It is certainly true that as in any war things happen that are wrong, evil and gross. Atrocities committed by all conflicting parties, but to be targeting civilians, their housing and infrastructure as a consistent policy is a whole different level of malice.

I agree with what you say here.
Would you also agree, no waring side, should use civilian areas as a tool to hide behind and shoot
missiles at the enemy?

[Donhollio]

Ukrainian army accused of using cluster bombs on civillian areas 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-29702522

 They're not banned by Ukraine. if that map is accurate, it would appear the Russians are just about to implode. BellZeeBoobs once wrote that Russian culture puts the value of life on a low scale. So Ukraine and Russia fight as they did in decades ago to get the job done. In the process some will get killed, its unfortunate, but that is how it is.

 

[Manny]

A Downing St Petition:

No to Nato military exercises in Ukraine

Responsible department: Ministry of Defence

We note with great concern that UK and US troops are scheduled to participate in joint military exercises in Ukraine in July as part of NATO’s Rapid Trident manoeuvres. Ukraine is not a member of NATO. Its participation in military exercises by a nuclear-armed alliance with a first-strike policy can only further destabilise the country.

We call on the British government to urge the US and other NATO governments to cancel the Rapid Trident exercise, and to give a plain and public undertaking that Britain will not participate.

Initial signatories:
Lindsey German, convenor of Stop the War Coalition
Kate Hudson, general secretary of CND
Caroline Lucas MP
Jeremy Corbyn MP
John Rees, Stop the War Coalition
Baroness Jenny Tonge
Ken Loach, film and TV director
Mark Rylance, actor
Miriam Margolyes OBE actor
Michael Rosen, author and broadcaster
Salma Yaqoob, former leader of the Respect Party
Andrew Murray, chief of staff for Unite union

Anyone that wants to sign it can do so here: http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/64756

12 signatures? They need a better PR team.

I see 5579. Not sure where you are looking.

[andrewfi]

Slumba, the article you linked to was interesting. The mix of, possibly mandatory, anti-Russian misinformation and patronisation along with decently observed vignettes was an engaging read. I think I detect the heavy(ish) hand of the sub-editor on the piece though.

Apart from the inserted political stuff, the lady referred to at the top of the story does not live in a wooden hut. She lives in a wooden house, a house typical of the region, well insulated, long lived and made with local materials for local conditions.

[NS1]

Manny I am curious, they are bringing aid? what are they taking back to Russia, seems to be a normal routine,
bring 3/4 empty trucks, take them back full.

[Manny]

Manny I am curious, they are bringing aid? what are they taking back to Russia, seems to be a normal routine,
bring 3/4 empty trucks, take them back full.

Any good transport company doesn't like an empty return load. 

[andrewfi]

NS1: Are they going back with loads?

I kinda doubt it - are you sure that you are not just passing on somebody else's fantasies again? I kinda think you are.  

[mhr7]

Like you would know.

[MrMann]

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that there was an upsurge in fighting in the days after the arrival of the previous convoys, and that we won't see the same again this time (particularly around Donetsk airport).

[NS1]

NS1: Are they going back with loads?

I kinda doubt it - are you sure that you are not just passing on somebody else's fantasies again? I kinda think you are.  

They have in the past, who knows what or how much. But first time trucks were fully loaded on return.
Guess the left lane could handle the weight, as you were quite sure, it could not be handled on way into Ukraine.
Thus your explaining of 1/4 loads of aid.

I doubt you have a clue, either way.

[Manny]

"The People's Court of Novorossiya" sentences a man to death.

http://tvrain.ru/articles/v_seti_pojavilos_video_pervogo_narodnogo_suda_novorossii-377382/

That is a very worrying direction for Novorossiya to take. I am curious to know what the mans "crime" was as that didn't seem to be mentioned.

[MrMann]

The full version of the video is "coming soon", apparently.

http://vk.com/id265927036?w=wall265927036_10488