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Author Topic: smooth sailing then brick wall  (Read 10165 times)

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Offline jp5888

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smooth sailing then brick wall
« on: July 20, 2014, 06:19:45 AM »
I hope someone has some good advice, because I'm fresh out of ideas.  I have been seeing just one lady for about a year and a half.  We met in person almost a year ago now in Kiev.  She met me at the airport, we had a great time and hit it off from the start.  We talk every day and sometimes during the night.  We met a second time in the Dominican Republic in December and were even closer.  After this meeting we decided we were a perfect couple and worked on the K1 Visa paperwork, it was submitted in March and still pending review.  A week ago, about on my birthday, I got a rather cold birthday wish, wishing me the best in my life...  Ever since our second meeting she has been very affectionate with her words, true love, etc.  Then, for about a week, just talked to me like an acquaintance and only once or twice a day.  I asked if she still loved me, and she said that she can't leave her family now because war is close and her mom is sick.  She thinks I should pull the visa application from USCIS.  In addition, I have already booked airfare to come see her in about 4 weeks.  I understand those problems and I offered every possible solution.  I just don't understand why she turned so cold towards me, especially when were this close.  I am just sick about all this and now I can't even get a response out of her.  I would appreciate any advice anyone has out there, I really thought we were perfect, if you would see how much we talked every day and what was said you would understand. 

Offline Larry

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2014, 07:00:44 AM »
...A week ago, about on my birthday, I got a rather cold birthday wish, wishing me the best in my life...  Ever since our second meeting she has been very affectionate with her words, true love, etc.  Then, for about a week, just talked to me like an acquaintance and only once or twice a day.  I asked if she still loved me, and she said that she can't leave her family now because war is close and her mom is sick.  She thinks I should pull the visa application from USCIS... now I can't even get a response out of her.  I would appreciate any advice anyone has out there, I really thought we were perfect, if you would see how much we talked every day and what was said you would understand.

I would say this relationship is over.  You might consider doing as she suggests and withdrawing your application for a fiancée visa to bring her here.  We are limited to only two such visas in our lifetimes.  It's possible that by withdrawing your application at this stage that this one won't count against this limit.

These relationships are often very difficult to succeed with, for various reasons.  To find a wife in FSU you generally must be very persistent.  It looks like you two were seeing each other every six months.  I highly recommend more frequent visits with your next FSUW.  Absence doesn't make the heart grow fonder.

Offline jp5888

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2014, 09:20:31 AM »
It is just strange, I never saw it coming.  It was like a light switch was hit overnight.  I know her mom is not well, was in the hospital for a week.  I offered ever help I could be, but nothing.  There was also someone she knew killed in the Ukrainian military, which I think did something to her.  I was just hoping she would snap out of it after a few days, but it didn't happen.  I think you are right about the application, it is just hard to say when you have the emotions behind it.  It is hard starting over again after so much and so long.  Sorry for the venting. 


Offline Manny

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2014, 09:21:54 AM »
Who was going to look after mother if she went to live abroad?

Would you go and live abroad leaving a sick parent in the home country in the midst of a civil war?

Marrying a foreign guy is a nice idea for many until the reality of actually leaving hits.

Also, is mother a strong influence? An aged topic on that subject here.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2014, 09:28:17 AM »
First off, I agree with Larry and with Manny.

That being said, next time with a lady be sure to delay the "honeymoon" (DR trip) until after you've invested significant time in the world in which she lives. Personally, I'd hold off on honeymoon trips until after the wedding. Lives in the FSU are very interconnected for most families and you need to have sufficient time invested, in her surroundings, to be considered a part of the family by her family, by her friends, etc. The more roots you plant in her immediate environment, the easier it will be to build a long term relationship with her in any part of the greater world.

What those things and events did was to remind her of where home really is, and where it is not. All those things could have happened when married and now you have a sense of the challenges inherent in international marriages.

In my experience, and of course there are the rare exceptions, the more time invested on the ground and in her immediate environment, the stronger a relationship can grow and the more durable it can be to overcome the bumps of life.

Offline Larry

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2014, 09:58:31 AM »
It is just strange, I never saw it coming.  It was like a light switch was hit overnight.

I have been in that situation myself.  Well, perhaps not precisely in that situation, because I've learned to notice the warning signs, which in my experience almost always are there before the relationship goes up in smoke.

A lot of these girls are able to turn off their feelings quickly and abruptly.  The year I began my FSUW search I became engaged to a girl who showed more love than anyone else I've ever known.  Then within the space of two months I noticed the signs of that love quickly dying.

Quote
It is hard starting over again after so much and so long.

I want to address this point because this is a common reaction among guys in this search. You have put a great deal of time and energy into your search and have developed strong feelings for a particular girl, feelings which you believe were, at least at one time, mutual.  You wonder why her feelings could have changed so much and so abruptly, and you nurture a hope that you can get her back.  It is very likely that she will not change her mind and that you cannot get her back.

There is a concept in economics called "sunk costs".  You have invested something (usually money but it can also be time and emotions) and you want to continue on because you don't want to "lose" what you have invested.  But it is wise to decide on your next move without regard to these sunk costs.

Offline Maxx

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2014, 10:18:58 AM »
There is a concept in economics called "sunk costs".  You have invested something (usually money but it can also be time and emotions) and you want to continue on because you don't want to "lose" what you have invested.  But it is wise to decide on your next move without regard to these sunk costs.

I have heard it described as the "Previous Investment Trap." I seen some things with my ex-RW that told me that it wasn't all going to be wine and roses but I rationalized it all away as "we have came this far."

As far as the OP goes. Yes he should spend a lot of time with her at her home. But can he? Very few people have the ability to do this with jobs and mortgages.

Offline jp5888

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2014, 10:37:31 AM »
I know you are all correct, just really hard to accept.  I wanted to visit her family the first time I came in, but she wasn't ready to introduce them yet.  I did often see her mother on Skype and was really looking forward to seeing her.  I saw her nieces a lot on Skype as well.  I sent things for all of them several times.  Her mother would always come over and try to talk with me when we were on.  Her sisters family lives 5 minute walk away.  I fully understand the importance of family and was doing the best I could to build that relationship.  I was only a few weeks away from seeing them all in person.  She lived out of the country for 4 years previously for work and assured me it was not a problem for her.  I guess lessons learned, although I'm not entirely sure how to avoid all of them again. 

Offline Maxx

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2014, 11:03:38 AM »

jp, you don't know me. 11 years ago my brief marriage failed. I have had contact with many men in my situation. For most men myself included love does not switch off suddenly. Larry up thread said, "A lot of these girls are able to turn off their feelings quickly and abruptly" that seems to be true from my observations. For a man it usually is more difficult. I think it has something to do with the way our brains are wired. The man a persistent hunter and the woman back at the cave multitasking quickly switching from one chore to another. What I found out that works the best is to change the hunt. Or as Russian men so bluntly say "Find another woman." If things don't work out with her then try to quickly move on. Good luck.

Offline jp5888

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2014, 11:11:19 AM »
Thanks for the advice, I think it is sound.  She really did flip the emotion switch, literally overnight.  I'm definitely wired that way, guess I will have to keep my guard up a little more now.  I'm going to try and move on, just had so many plans made for the very near future.  She seemed so excited for it as well.  There is a fine line between moving more quickly to keep her interest and determining long term viability.  Just trying to get out of the funk I'm in now.  I have airline ticket for 4 weeks from now as well, plus the visa to cancel. 

Online B.B.

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2014, 11:15:12 AM »
I would say this relationship is over.  You might consider doing as she suggests and withdrawing your application for a fiancée visa to bring her here. We are limited to only two such visas in our lifetimes.  It's possible that by withdrawing your application at this stage that this one won't count against this limit.

I think this lasts about until a guy files his third K1 (which, one imagines, is not going to be too many guys).  Marriage is a fundamental right, as we are so often told by the people who think that dewds should be allowed to marry other dewds*, and so forth, and I find it hard to believe that "Maria Cantwell's Feminist Twattery" is going to survive strict scrutiny.

B/B

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Online B.B.

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2014, 11:18:10 AM »
Thanks for the advice, I think it is sound.  She really did flip the emotion switch, literally overnight.

It may seem like it's 'overnight' to you, but probably she was thinking about this for a while.  Not that that makes it suck less, but it's likely the case.

I'm going to try and move on, just had so many plans made for the very near future.  She seemed so excited for it as well.  There is a fine line between moving more quickly to keep her interest and determining long term viability. Just trying to get out of the funk I'm in now.  I have airline ticket for 4 weeks from now as well, plus the visa to cancel.

That's the thing.  Even if you took her back now (assuming she came around, or could be convinced) how long would it be until something else became a problem?  Like homesickness or something else.  Better to get this figured out now, rather than after the marriage.

B/B
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Offline Maxx

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2014, 11:33:12 AM »
Just trying to get out of the funk I'm in now.  I have airline ticket for 4 weeks from now as well, plus the visa to cancel.

Sounds to me the conditions are perfect for your getting out of your funk. Find an agency and contact some women. Go over there and meet them. Do some tourist things. It doesn't have to be a marriage quest. You might come back with a whole new outlook on the possibilities for you. Go look at some women's profiles now.

Offline sharonhaber00

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2014, 11:56:40 AM »
A lot of these girls are able to turn off their feelings quickly and abruptly.  The year I began my FSUW search I became engaged to a girl who showed more love than anyone else I've ever known.  Then within the space of two months I noticed the signs of that love quickly dying.

That's why I advice against the FSUW thing. If happens happens, but aspire to it - no. Invest the same resources and energy locally and you will do.
Nadie no sabe lo que tiene hasta el día que lo pierde.

Offline sashathecat

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2014, 12:18:05 PM »
Damn, that really sucks. I feel for you on this one. Larry and the guys all give good advice. A lot can happen in between the time you are able to see each other. The longer it is the more it can unravel unfortunately.

Offline Larry

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2014, 01:48:19 PM »
I would say this relationship is over.  You might consider doing as she suggests and withdrawing your application for a fiancée visa to bring her here. We are limited to only two such visas in our lifetimes.  It's possible that by withdrawing your application at this stage that this one won't count against this limit.

I think this lasts about until a guy files his third K1 (which, one imagines, is not going to be too many guys).  Marriage is a fundamental right, as we are so often told by the people who think that dewds should be allowed to marry other dewds*, and so forth, and I find it hard to believe that "Maria Cantwell's Feminist Twattery" is going to survive strict scrutiny.

B/B

*NTTAWWT

I think you are right on the merits.  But I see some possible obstacles:

1. A guy who is turned down on his third fiancée visa application would need to a) pay a great deal of money to a competent lawyer to represent him in a suit against the government, or b) be a good lawyer who could represent himself. 

2. He would have to find a US District Court judge who wouldn't rule against him but would fairly apply recent precedents to the case.  If not, he could appeal the District Court's adverse decision to the Court of Appeals.

3. If the Court of Appeals rules in his favor, great.  But if the government saw it was likely to lose, perhaps it would settle the case with the plaintiff and allow him to proceed with his fiancée visa application, in order that a precedent not be established.

4. If the Court of Appeals rules against the plaintiff, then I think the odds aren't good that the US Supreme Court would even take the case.  As you know, the Court these days hears no more than 150 of the 7,000 cases that it is asked to hear every year. The Court heard the gay marriage case mainly because there was major controversy over the issue and the media were pushing the issue.  Almost no one in the media would care about guys who are refused a third fiancée visa. 

Note: to the extent possible I have avoided using legal jargon so that all readers would understand the post.

Online 2tallbill

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2014, 04:01:12 PM »
I think you are right on the merits.  But I see some possible obstacles:

Or he could just get married in the FSU and use the CR1 or K3
FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2014, 04:17:04 PM »
I hope someone has some good advice

Welcome to the forum JP,

I agree with the others that you need to dust yourself off and start over.
I've had the wheels fall off with a FSUW as well. Larry and the others
made some excellent points.

Larry's point about more frequent visits while waiting is crucial in my opinion.

Manny wrote an excellent chapter about it in his book The Russian Bride Guide
called "Maintaining a long-distance relationship." I highly recommend reading it.
 I call it keeping the wheels from flying off.

You can find my thoughts and others about keeping the wheels on here
http://ruadventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=19079.0


Udachi!

Bill
FSUW are not for entry level daters. FSUW don't do vague FSUW like a man of action so be a man of action  If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane. There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Kiss the girl, don't ask her first.
Get an apartment not a hotel. DON'T recycle girls

Offline jp5888

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2014, 05:19:14 PM »
Thanks all for the good advice and tough love.  I've already been hitting Elena's and talking to a couple ladies.  It will be hard getting over this one, but I know it can work because I have seen it.  I will work on stopping the visa tomorrow.  Does anyone have any experience at that? 

Offline Larry

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2014, 05:38:36 PM »
I will work on stopping the visa tomorrow.  Does anyone have any experience at that?

Unfortunately, I do.  My immigration lawyer handled it, but as I recall, it merely required sending a letter asking that the application be withdrawn. Be sure to include all the identifying information. I suggest sending the letter via certified mail.

That was several years ago though. I recommend checking either the gov. website or Visajourney.com to make sure this is still correct.

Offline Mikeav8r

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2014, 10:17:26 PM »
It is.  Send the letter requesting the withdrawal of your petition.  Since it was filed in March, and if it is at TSC, you have about a month before NOA2 so get it done soon.  It will not count against you if you beat NOA2.

If you are not a member at VisaJourney.com, I highly recommend it.  There is very good information regarding this topic on there.
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Offline Mikeav8r

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2014, 10:20:02 PM »
Thanks all for the good advice and tough love.  I've already been hitting Elena's and talking to a couple ladies.  It will be hard getting over this one, but I know it can work because I have seen it.  I will work on stopping the visa tomorrow.  Does anyone have any experience at that?

Fate works in strange ways.  Look at it as something that wasn't meant to be because something even better was waiting around the corner.  Good luck.
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Offline leslied

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2014, 02:57:03 AM »
JP,

A little practical advice  :)   

Can you delay your vacation by 2-3 months?  It should be easy to change the dates of your flight - possibly just a small fee.  Use the time to plan another trip !  I would advise WMVM approach and be laid back about it.  Try to meet some new ladies and have a vacation.  If you come back with a couple of contacts then it will have been a success !

Nothing helps to overcome the sadness of leaving one relationship behind like finding a new one  :thumbsup:

More than 13 years ago I was in a similar situation.  Tickets booked for a return visit to a girlfriend in Kiev.  About 6 weeks before I was due to fly out, the relationship fell apart.  I ended it.  I was persuaded to try again though I had little enthusiasm.

The trip report is in the no comment trip reports section.  On that trip I met my wife ! 

So don't feel so down, Pick yourself up and try again  tiphat

Offline rosco

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2014, 07:45:02 AM »
JP,

Sorry to hear about the situation.

For what it's worth, I had something similar a few years ago although no fiancee paperwork was ever filed. I had a relationship with a Ukrainian girl over the course of a couple years and several trips, if I remember correctly. We were at the stage where we knew marriage would be the next step for us to live our lives together.

All was well and we had been discussing the near future in the back of the taxi, as we made our way to the airport. I think that was the last time we saw each other. Her mum had been in a bad car accident a few months previously and although she was on the mend, it would be a very long road before she was self supporting. With no men in the family, my girl basically said that she couldn't leave her mother and that she had no time for a relationship. I did my best to offer help, support and generally being there for them but it was all pointless. Relationship over and not a conversation to be had.

I then met another girl around 6 months later and today this wonderful lady is my wife.

Two things stand out here and although it doesn't directly relate to your situation, there are some similarities;

1) I moved on instead of waiting around feeling sorry for myself. I was never in rebound mode and made sure the next girl I met was perfectly suited to me. Right now I'm glad I went through that bit of heart ache with PFH otherwise I'd never had met my wife.

2) When PFH broke up with me, I remember her saying that 'If it's meant to be, fate will bring us together again'. I called BS on that and put it down as something to ease the blow. Well about a year later, she got back in touch wanting to meet up and try again. By then...........I was already with my wife!!

Life occasionally knocks you down but very often, there's something sweeter round the corner if you give it a go.

Offline jp5888

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Re: smooth sailing then brick wall
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2014, 09:35:18 AM »
Thanks everyone for the great responses, I can tell you have been here too.  Rosco, that sounds so similar it is scary.  I think if it wasn't for the news of her mother and the conflict over there, things would still be good.  Just that situation was a game changer for her.  I tried everything to help, but just little conversation now except when I asked about the visa.  I have already started to look around and see what I can do.  I might just go as scheduled since it is still summer and see what happens.  It wouldn't surprise me if she contacted me again down the road, but hopefully I'm in a better situation by then.  I took the high road with her and left with respect.  I just need to do some quick research on places to stay, etc.  Last time she took care of the apartment, met me at the airport and arranged the entire week of activity. 

As an aside, I did call USCIS about the visa.  I just need to send a letter with a brief reason why, include the receipt number and that is it.  I will send it certified mail, they said no need to have it notarized, just in case someone else needs this unfortunate information.  I just need to go home here at lunch and find the letter they sent because the address for the Texas Service Center is nowhere to be found on their website.