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Author Topic: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....  (Read 79435 times)

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Offline Ste

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Offline Ste

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2014, 09:48:39 AM »
Seems like it was over Ukraine, not Russia.....
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Offline Manny

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2014, 10:11:51 AM »
British and American media are reporting it shot down by Russia and are claiming Interfax says this.

Although the Express has just pulled the story from their site and interfax.co.uk is down.

However, interfax.ru says no such thing. They say it was the Ukrainian military: http://www.interfax.ru/world/386418
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.


Offline Ste

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2014, 10:14:51 AM »
British and American media are reporting it shot down by Russia and are claiming Interfax says this.

Although the Express has just pulled the story from their site and interfax.co.uk is down.

However, interfax.ru says no such thing. They say it was the Ukrainian military: http://www.interfax.ru/world/386418

They are saying it was brought down by pro-russian separatists....
O pointy birds, o pointy pointy, Anoint my head, anointy-nointy.

Offline MrMann

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2014, 10:15:43 AM »
It was Interfax-Ukraine who were claimed to have reported that it was shot down, although their new bulletin makes no mention of that, not Interfax Russia.

http://interfax.com.ua/news/general/214115.html

It's clearly too early to say what has happened, despite rampant speculation on all sides.

Offline Orchid

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2014, 10:18:45 AM »
Just another evidence that Ukraine is out of control.
What is next? Accident with nuclear weapon?
I think after that the world will ask Putin to take Ukraine for free because price of this country is very low, but maintenance is expensive and dangerous.

Offline MrMann

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2014, 10:22:50 AM »
The World's reaction will depend very much on who is proved to be responsible and / or what exactly has happened, and this early in proceedings that is almost impossible to know.

Offline Manny

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2014, 10:27:05 AM »
British and American media are reporting it shot down by Russia and are claiming Interfax says this.

Although the Express has just pulled the story from their site and interfax.co.uk is down.

However, interfax.ru says no such thing. They say it was the Ukrainian military: http://www.interfax.ru/world/386418

They are saying it was brought down by pro-russian separatists....

No they are not.

Quote
The news agency claimed that the Malaysian Airlines passenger plane was shot down by Russian authorities but that has yet to be confirmed.

Before they change it again:

ila_rendered



And Interfax says nothing of the sort that I can find. Interfax report it was shot down by the Ukrainian military.

A classic example of the western media lying and making stuff up.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline Orchid

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2014, 10:31:06 AM »
The World's reaction will depend very much on who is proved to be responsible and / or what exactly has happened, and this early in proceedings that is almost impossible to know.
Everyone will try to take advantage of this situation.
The World's reaction will depend on  how much it will cost to this World.
I just pray for those people who are innocent victims.
Honestly, I would not go to Ukraine and I would not use any plain if it flies over Ukraine.

Offline Halo

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2014, 10:33:04 AM »
Ukraine has claimed the plane was shot down by the terrorists, the fourth missile attack this week.  All previous attacks were with Buk missiles, which are not produced in Ukraine.  This does prove Russia is supplying the terrorists with arms.

After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Manny

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2014, 10:35:53 AM »
Ukraine has claimed the plane was shot down by the terrorists separatists, the fourth missile attack this week.  All previous attacks were with Buk missiles, which are not produced in Ukraine.  This does prove Russia is supplying the terrorists separatists with arms.

The separatists claim they have no hardware capable of downing a passenger jet at 10km up.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline MrMann

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2014, 10:39:03 AM »
And Interfax says nothing of the sort that I can find. Interfax report it was shot down by the Ukrainian military.

A classic example of the western media lying and making stuff up.

It's a classic example of shoddy journalism by the Daily Express.

Interfax are not reporting that it was shot down by the Ukrainian military, they are reporting that the Ukrainians say that the separatists are responsible and the separatists say that the Ukrainians are responsible.

Frankly neither side can say definitively what has happened at this early stage.

Just because the separatists claim not to have the capability doesn't mean that they don't.

Offline WestCoast

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2014, 10:43:25 AM »
The American news agency ABC is reporting that since the American spy agencies monitor Russian and Ukrainian military communications the Americans should be able to determine who gave an order to fire a missile. Also they believe the Americans have the area under satellite surveillance so the Americans should be able to determine the country and area the missile was fired from.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/abc-news-plus-special-report-220000361.html
andrewfi says ''Proximity is almost no guarantee of authority" and "in many cases, distance gives a better picture with less emotional and subjective input."

That means I'm a subject matter expert on all things Russia, Ukraine and UK.

Offline Manny

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2014, 10:44:59 AM »
It's a classic example of shoddy journalism by the Daily Express.

Interfax are not reporting that it was shot down by the Ukrainian military, they are reporting that the Ukrainians say that the separatists are responsible and the separatists say that the Ukrainians are responsible.

Interfax was reporting that; I read it half an hour ago. The article changed a little after, and now the site is overloaded and down with a 500 error.

Either way, I could find no evidence that Interfax reported it as the Express and others claim.
Read a trip report from North Korea >>here<< - Read a trip report from South Korea, China and Hong Kong >>here<<

Look what the American media makes some people believe:
Putin often threatens to strike US with nuclear weapons.

Offline Millaa

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2014, 10:45:35 AM »
In 2001, Russian plane flying to Israel was shot down by the ukrainian rocket. Do you think they admitted it and paid compensation to the victims relatives?
Скептический ум - страшное оружие с собственным счастьем

Offline Orchid

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2014, 10:47:59 AM »
Ukraine has claimed the plane was shot down by the terrorists, the fourth missile attack this week.  All previous attacks were with Buk missiles, which are not produced in Ukraine.  This does prove Russia is supplying the terrorists with arms.

Both Russia and Ukraine are highly corrupted countries.
You can buy passport, diploma, or any weapon at any time.
What we see is a result of corruption, not political intention.
The only thing I want from Ukraine authority: to control their terrorists.
It obviously becomes dangerous to outside world.
My heart sinks when I think about simple people in Ukraine who want to live happy life.


Offline MrMann

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2014, 10:50:18 AM »
Interfax was reporting that; I read it half an hour ago. The article changed a little after, and now the site is overloaded and down with a 500 error.

My apologies then, the version I saw 20 minutes or so ago reflected what I wrote.

Offline Ste

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2014, 10:50:37 AM »
In 2001, Russian plane flying to Israel was shot down by the ukrainian rocket. Do you think they admitted it and paid compensation to the victims relatives?

Did the Soviet Union do so when they shot down two Korean Airliners?
O pointy birds, o pointy pointy, Anoint my head, anointy-nointy.

Offline Maxx

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2014, 10:51:10 AM »

The separatists claim they have no hardware capable of downing a passenger jet at 10km up.

The plane was at 33,000 feet well beyond shoulder mounted surface to air missiles. The kind the separatists would have. It would have to come from a larger truck mounted system the kind the Russian or Ukrainian military forces use.

There is going to be a lot of spin on who did it and why or if it was an accident. Hopefully people will not use this as an excuse to quickly act and do something that was unjustified or unwise. The mob mentality taking over.

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2014, 10:53:41 AM »

My heart sinks when I think about simple people in Ukraine who want to live happy life.

I feel this way also.

Offline Halo

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2014, 10:55:38 AM »
The separatists claim they have no hardware capable of downing a passenger jet at 10km up.

The terrorists have BUK missiles, supplied by Russia, and their range is higher than 10 km.

But, Westy is correct, satellites will prove who shot the missile.

Quote
Do you think they admitted it and paid compensation to the victims relatives?

Yes, the did admit it, and yes, Ukraine did pay compensation. 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/1359353/Ukraine-admits-it-shot-down-Russian-airliner.html

Quote
The plane was at 33,000 feet well beyond shoulder mounted surface to air missiles. The kind the separatists would have. It would have to come from a larger truck mounted system the kind the Russian or Ukrainian military forces use.

There is going to be a lot of spin on who did it and why or if it was an accident. Hopefully people will not use this as an excuse to quickly act and do something that was unjustified or unwise. The mob mentality taking over.

Two Ukrainian planes were shot down by terrorists this week.  The spin will be resolved with evidence at some point.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Net_Lenka

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2014, 10:57:13 AM »
In 2001, Russian plane flying to Israel was shot down by the ukrainian rocket. Do you think they admitted it and paid compensation to the victims relatives?

Did the Soviet Union do so when they shot down two Korean Airliners?
Did Russian plane fligh obove "closed" Ukrainian military zone not answering to reqiests? 
- А Вы кто такой будете?
-Тьфу на Вас
-А фамилия Ваша как?  -Тьфу на Вас еще раз .. а фамилия моя слишком известная, чтобы я её называл

Offline Orchid

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2014, 10:58:54 AM »
In 2001, Russian plane flying to Israel was shot down by the ukrainian rocket. Do you think they admitted it and paid compensation to the victims relatives?

Did the Soviet Union do so when they shot down two Korean Airliners?

Did you expect apologies from communists?

Keep in mind that changes in area of FSU are happen very fast!!!
You can write a book if you follow and analyze thoroughly all these changes.
So, be careful with comparison.

Offline Halo

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2014, 11:00:24 AM »
Ukraine has claimed the plane was shot down by the terrorists, the fourth missile attack this week.  All previous attacks were with Buk missiles, which are not produced in Ukraine.  This does prove Russia is supplying the terrorists with arms.

Both Russia and Ukraine are highly corrupted countries.
You can buy passport, diploma, or any weapon at any time.
What we see is a result of corruption, not political intention.
The only thing I want from Ukraine authority: to control their terrorists.
It obviously becomes dangerous to outside world.
My heart sinks when I think about simple people in Ukraine who want to live happy life.


I agree with all of that, 100%.  However, I do believe Russia is supplying arms. 

I don't know how the terrorists can be easily controlled without significant civilian casualties.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Online B.B.

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Re: MH17: Malaysian Plane shot down over Ukraine - 295 on board....
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2014, 11:03:01 AM »
Ukraine has claimed the plane was shot down by the terrorists separatists, the fourth missile attack this week.  All previous attacks were with Buk missiles, which are not produced in Ukraine.  This does prove Russia is supplying the terrorists separatists with arms.

The separatists claim they have no hardware capable of downing a passenger jet at 10km up.

If the Russian separatists are, in fact, intentionally shooting down passenger airliners, then they would, in fact, qualify as "terrorists"  :smileysherlock:

B/B
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