Amuzing video of dogged scammers using real girl

[shakespear]

No Shakespear,  I was talking about the girls, not the agencies, that use pay-per letter/pay per chat sites.  After all this thread was started regarding a scammer girl,so it's the girls we SHOULD be talking about.

Isn't "site" just another word for "agency"?

You (nor any other forum member) has yet to contradicted my statement that an AGENCY (or site if you prefer) that has a simple procedure for releasing the girls personal contact information for a reasonable fee is a more honest agency than one that refuses under any circumstance to release the same contact information.

Hard to contradict the truth. 

When was the last time you used a dating site, featuring FSU women hmmm ?  When was the last time you dated a girl from one of those sites ?  Actually when WAS the last time you actually ventured into Ukraine, because that's where the vast majority of the girls using those sites emanate from.  I suggest you don't come on here giving your pompous views, before you can offer some worthwhile advise to newbies, based on actual recent experience in the real world, and not based on all our yesterdays.

So, let us know when you start using those sites again, and meeting girls from them in the FSU, because until you do, like I have recently, then you don't know what you're talking about.  Until then, stick to your fantasising and photo-taking of young girls in Moscow, which is something you do know about.  You're a bit of a dinosaur.  Hard to accept i know, but someone needs to tell you. 

You know, this could be one of the most ridiculous and ignorant replies I've ever read on RUA. 

If I wanted to appear to be equally ridiculous and ignorant, I could say something like "Until you're been happily married to a woman from the FSU for 10 years you don't know what you're talking about".  I could even say "Until you've survived a divorce from a lying, self-serving, and blood-sucking Russian wife you don't know what you're talking about."  But I would never say or even imply either such moronic notion.

Further, the ad hominen nature of your missive reduces it's credibility significantly. 

Do you think there were scammers and women with impure motives when I was doing my dating back in 1997-2002?  Of course there were!  The primary methods of initial communication may have changed but the greed based temptation to temporarily trade ones youth, beauty and education in order to better ones economic circumstances hasn't changed one bit.     

One thing I do agree with you on.  Most men do scam themselves,and that's because they want to trust that pretty face they're communicating/meeting with,in the hope that she is sincere. 

Ah, it appears you grant me credit for knowing SOMETHING about the pursuit of marriage in the FSU.

F Y I, there is a good chance that I will visit Ukraine this fall.

I am curious Chelseaboy, just how many jaunts have you made to the FSU?  For the record, I've made 32 since 1997 and my experience includes both Russia and Estonia; but I wouldn't be so dimwitted to say or even imply that this one fact somehow means you don't know what you're talking about.  Your own words do that for me.  Further, I do know that it is proper keyboarding to follow commas and periods with a space.           

[chelseaboy]

It is common knowledge that the FSU dating industry has changed dramatically in the last ten years,so you're out of touch.


It was far easier to find a serious woman over there ten years ago,than it is now,and the amount of prodaters and scammers has increased.

Nowadays,the girls don't need to move abroad to make their money,and can seriously enhance their income and lifestyle,through gullible foreign men,without having to give up the local lover.

The internet has made a huge difference in this regard,because these girls are getting contacted by far more men now,which means more potential marks and various forms of income for them and their local agencies.

So,you intend venturing into Ukraine this year.As you're married,one would assume you won't be communicating with, or dating, so-called husband seeking girls/women from the pay per letter sites,so nothing really changes does it.

FYI i've made more trips to the FSU to meet a potential wife in the last two years than you have,although that wouldn't need many would it ?
That's all you need to know.

[TomT]

It is common knowledge that the FSU dating industry has changed dramatically in the last ten years,so you're out of touch.

It's been five years since I've gone through the normal channels¹ but I keep up with my journals... as does Shakey.

Note¹  Normal channels suck, by the way.

[shakespear]

It is common knowledge that the FSU dating industry has changed dramatically in the last ten years,so you're out of touch.

The first part of your statement is quite true but your conclusion is flawed.  One does not have to be an active participant to understand what has been or is happening to others.  One must simply know how to read. 

It was far easier to find a serious woman over there ten years ago, than it is now, and the amount of prodaters and scammers has increased.

Really?  My experience tells me that the divorce rate for western men who met their wives 10-15 years ago is pretty alarming.  Since virtually ALL of the FSU was in economic crisis then, I'd say the chance of running into a woman who would do or say anything to escape the poverty that was her life was probably greater then than now.  You know why nobody goes to Russia anymore?  The economy and long-term economic outlook has improved enough that Russian women aren't willing to trade their youth, beauty and education to some loser from the west in exchange for a ticket out of mud city.  If guys were smart and REALLY looking for a serious life companion, they'd avoid Ukraine altogether and look in Russia or the Baltic countries where a women has far less economic motivation to lower her marriage companion standards to rock bottom.  But that would take away your "edge" wouldn't it?  Couldn't as easily find an "out-of-your-league" beauty that would be quite as desperate to lower her companion standards could you?  Fifty year old losers couldn't "bang" as many hot 25 year old dyevs for the price of a couple of restaurant meals and a never-intend-to-keep promise of immigration to the west could they?   

Sometimes I have to remind myself who the scammers really are . . . . . . . . . .
     

Nowadays,the girls don't need to move abroad to make their money, and can seriously enhance their income and lifestyle, through gullible foreign men, without having to give up the local lover.

Do you really think this is a new or recently discovered strategy? 

I don't condone scamming, but I do believe "a fool and his money are soon parted". 

The internet has made a huge difference in this regard,because these girls are getting contacted by far more men now,which means more potential marks and various forms of income for them and their local agencies.

As I said up thread, the rule about not sending money to someone you haven't met face-to-face would eliminate 100% of the scamming problem.  Men's stupidity and uncontrolled libido fantasies scams themselves.  This was true in 2000 and is true today.  What exactly has changed?  Perhaps there are more men voyeuring on the internet today, but applications for K-1 and K-3 visas from the FSU are way down compared to 10 years ago.  Why do you think that is?       

So, you intend venturing into Ukraine this year.  As you're married, one would assume you won't be communicating with, or dating, so-called husband seeking girls/women from the pay per letter sites, so nothing really changes does it.

If you put any credence in your moronic notion that one must be actively pursuing a woman from Ukraine to understand the pitfalls of such a venture, then I suppose you're right.  Actually I hope to meet Jack and maybe Vinny in Kiev so I'll probably get the opportunity to experience the "modern" FSU dating practices as an observer.       

FYI I've made more trips to the FSU to meet a potential wife in the last two years than you have, although that wouldn't need many would it?  That's all you need to know. 

Son, I've FORGOTTEN more about meeting and dating women from the former FSU than you'll ever know.   

[Manny]

FYI I've made more trips to the FSU to meet a potential wife in the last two years than you have, although that wouldn't need many would it?  That's all you need to know. 

Son, I've FORGOTTEN more about meeting and dating women from the former FSU than you'll ever know.  

Chelsea, the blokes around here that have got the t shirt have much to offer in the way of info. One doesn't need to have been in Ukraine unsuccessfully several times 'the last two years' to understand the marketplace.

The industry didn't change so much, it merely shifted locations.

That you are spending year after year unsuccessfully trawling Ukraine, whilst it gives you much in common with many others doing the same, it doesn't really qualify you to lecture someone twice married to FSU women - and who has travelled annually much more than you - about what he doesn't know. It makes you look a bit of an arse actually. 

Its a bit like telling Alan Sugar he knows nothing about business because he made his big quids in the past and cant see the vision you have in your market stall selling mops at two quid a go. He will laugh his arse off from the window of his Roller while you are standing in the rain.

Get real.

Topic relevant feet-on-the-floor experience counts. A bloke who has been going to the FSU for over a decade likely knows more than you. Ukraine isn't Outer Mongolia. It shares much in common with the rest of the FSU. Experience from Russia, Lithuania or wherever in that region is just as valid. Just there is more scamming in Ukraine now..... some of us saw all that before in other FSU places a decade ago. Only the location changes.......

I could tell you stories about 1998/99 in Estonia that mirrors what guys write about what happens to them in Ukraine today. Shakey could do the same with Russia - I know because I have met him and we have had those conversations. That stuff has mostly gone in the affluent FSU places now and has displaced to the poorer places. The reason you have been 'searching' for many years is likely same reason I got it badly wrong in 1998. You learn eventually...... or not as the case may be.

[shakespear]

The reason you have been 'searching' for many years is likely same reason I got it badly wrong in 1998. You learn eventually...... or not as the case may be.

Agree 100% Stuart.  It is probably the same reason I had my disaster in 1997 as well.  Seems funny how certain forum members who should be learning what they can seem hell bent on teaching others what minimal, and often errant lessons they've learned from their first or second week-long trips to Ukraine.

I remember after my 1997 trip, I thought I knew it all.  Two years of a marriage made in hell to a beautiful but shrewish Russian woman taught me differently.       

[Mikeav8r]

I realize this topic is a bit old but I have been out of the country and traveling a while so I am just now catching up.  I see valid points from all and can understand the emotion displayed in some of the posts.  I just wanted to add (as a former member of Dream Marriage) that I too have seen many testimonials from ladies that were claiming they had found love and were in the process of applying for a visa and could not wait to start their new lives, etc. etc. and all the while, I was receiving letters from those same ladies ( I am being polite with that term ) with the standard form letters and several were sexual in nature (describing their fantasies about me, etc.).  Reading the testimonials, you can get a very good idea of what time frame they were supposedly building this romance so when I am receiving letters during and after this period, it becomes obvious it is a farce.  By the way, 95% of the testimonials are written by the ladies giving praise and thanks to Dream Marriage for making all this possible.

TomT....I wish I was still a member so I could provide you with links to these ladies...but, since the testimonials can be accessed by nonmembers, I will see what I can provide you if you are still interested.

Shakespear.....Dream Marriage (the Agency/Site) does provide contact information of the girls for a fee (~50.00 USD) and what you receive is her phone number and her home address.....that is it.  They do not provide email addresses because they state that most Ukrainian women do not have internet access or email (Really?!)  I am currently on another site and 100% of the ladies I am speaking with have email...hmmmm...and they even know what Skype is....

Ok, so now guess what?  Most of the ladies do not speak English so the phone number does what for us?  Oh, that's right..for another fee you can arrange a phone introduction with an interpreter,  Now I realize that interpreters need to earn a living too and my hat is off to the legitimate ones as it is impressive for anyone to be fluent in 2 or more languages.  But, you now have contact info that is virtually useless.  Basically the agency does not want you to communicate with them outside their agency...even after you pay for contact info...so what's the point?  (BTW, the girls will even say in letters or chat that they are not allowed to communicate outside the site or to be on another dating site.  I believe that should be a dead giveaway as I believe the wall fell in 1989. 

There was a little sarcasm there and it was not directed at anyone here..just as a point of frustration in my search thus far.

You guys are the veterans and I am definitely here to continue to learn which is why I am here.  Any comments and suggestions are certainly welcome.

M

[JayH]

Could comment on quite a few aspects above. For what it is worth-- the girls on Dream Marriage are in no way exclusive to that site. They will appear on many other sites .