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Author Topic: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?  (Read 12590 times)

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Offline bagalia

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #50 on: January 01, 2012, 08:34:54 PM »
Halo, we can rely on you for the definitions. :coffeeread:

The truth sucks but if a man thinks on it for awhile it's just names. :party0031: On the bright side, a woman can start off as one and end as another.

Anyway, there is a page about Russian prostitution, fairly recent history up to 2000 that will open somebodies eyes if interested. It's more than history, gets into the thought behind it. I do not know if there is an agenda behind this site but it is an interesting read.

http://www1.american.edu/TED/russsex.htm

Now I am trying to remember that famous survey of RW students done years ago where many said they aspired to be prostitutes. Anybody remember the date and the stats?
Scott
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Offline Halo

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #51 on: January 01, 2012, 09:22:30 PM »
Halo, we can rely on you for the definitions. :coffeeread:

Yup.  It's fortunate I'm here. :evilgrin0002:  But were I not, I think Millaa could take my place. :king:
Quote

Anyway, there is a page about Russian prostitution, fairly recent history up to 2000 that will open somebodies eyes if interested. It's more than history, gets into the thought behind it. I do not know if there is an agenda behind this site but it is an interesting read.

http://www1.american.edu/TED/russsex.htm

Now I am trying to remember that famous survey of RW students done years ago where many said they aspired to be prostitutes. Anybody remember the date and the stats?
Scott


There was one by two British (I believe) researchers in the mid 1990's, Sue Brigder and Rebecca Kay, titled “Gender and generation in the new Russian labour market,” Gender, generation, and identity in contemporary Russia, ed. Hilary Pilkington (London: Routledge, 1996).  Bridger and Kay's survey found that 60 per cent of Russian high school girls would prostitute themselves, if given the opportunity.

There was another survey earlier, but I can't find a cite, in which about 3/4 of Russian schoolgirls surveyed stated that prostitution for hard currency was the most desirable profession for women.  It was in 1989, in the February edition of Literaturnaya Gazeta.

Offline bagalia

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #52 on: January 01, 2012, 09:52:56 PM »

There was another survey earlier, but I can't find a cite, in which about 3/4 of Russian schoolgirls surveyed stated that prostitution for hard currency was the most desirable profession for women.  It was in 1989, in the February edition of Literaturnaya Gazeta.

Yes, thankyouverymuch it was the earlier study. I guess that about covers the 30s and I doubt things have changed much. I think it was done in St. Pete but I have run across some babe village girls that also seemed pretty fast and loose.

If you are a man and in Russia looking for answers you might try looking in her closet for the traditional black wig.

Scott
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Online AvHdB

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #53 on: January 01, 2012, 11:47:53 PM »
one norg I got used to talk with thinks that any marriage is the form of prostitution 

During the end of the 60's through the 70's there were feminists in The States who repeatedly asserted the marriage was legalized prostitution.

I think there are very different definitions and idea's on RUA regarding what is prostitution. As for 3 women in Kiev (Halo's) comments the women that I have been fortunate enough to meet have never conducted theme selves in this manner. Lena who discovered my assets was very uncomfortable with this difference and told me she refused offers of sponsorship in Kiev from locals.

With Yuliya she trained as a ballet dancer and tried for a week a different type of dancing. It was not for her. She is as I indicated high maintenance and entitled and she would have no problem entering a long term relationship where she was taken care of. I do not see her as a prostitute ~ others may if you use some definitions above.
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Online AvHdB

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #54 on: January 02, 2012, 12:01:17 AM »

http://www1.american.edu/TED/russsex.htm


Scott, the article now it seems more than ten years old is poorly written projection of an assumed opinion. The opinion in fact might be true but it is hard to see this as a credible research paper. One of the conclusions stood out though.

"The Russian culture is a puritanical culture that has spent most of its lifetime in denial of sexuality. Sexual education and contraception were banned under Stalin in hopes of expanding the Russian population to fuel his armies. In the long run this has hurt the Russian people cognitively. They cannot except sexuality as a part of their personality. Again the image of the Madonna/whore comes to mind. This gives prudence to the myth that women with AIDS deserve it and Russian society does not need to help them. However the Russian culture must accept the realities of today's society and its problems. For even they are not immune to this terrible affliction."
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Online andrewfi

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #55 on: January 02, 2012, 01:33:07 AM »
But for sure blokes looking at 'normal' Russian women the risks are tiny.

I agree completely.

If you have sex and properly use a condom, there aren't enough zeros on your handheld calculator to calculate the odds of you catching AIDS or HIV from that encounter.

More than that, one would need the full complement of zeroes on a financial calculator to deal with the risks with a 'normal' woman with a normal lifestyle and no snotty bag. Of course, one would be much more likely to pick up chlamydia and as a normal social bloke that'd be a concern.

It is a real shame that in order to satisfy a perceived need to be 'fair' and not to discriminate that a whole industry has grown up around a fully dishonest precept and that now, 30 years on, we are starting to reap the whirlwind as normal people have come to understand the deception wrought upon them and now are starting to eschew sensible precautions.
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Offline Halo

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #56 on: January 02, 2012, 02:14:40 AM »

"The Russian culture is a puritanical culture that has spent most of its lifetime in denial of sexuality. Sexual education and contraception were banned under Stalin in hopes of expanding the Russian population to fuel his armies. In the long run this has hurt the Russian people cognitively. They cannot except sexuality as a part of their personality. Again the image of the Madonna/whore comes to mind. This gives prudence to the myth that women with AIDS deserve it and Russian society does not need to help them. However the Russian culture must accept the realities of today's society and its problems. For even they are not immune to this terrible affliction."

Russian culture was not puritanical.  In the 1970's, there was an area of Leningrad known as "Little Saigon", where men (and women, I assume, though I don't know of that happening) could go to buy underage boys and girls for an hour, a night, a week.  Most of those kids lived on the streets because their parents were alcoholics, or had thrown them out.

My husband was a sailor.  As his ship docked, there would be women waiting, in every port, to take a man home to get laid, because most of the sailors were young, and they were docking in cities where a third of the men were drunkards. 

Ukraine is still a largely "peasant" society, with most people from a village, or only two generations, at most, removed from a village.  Peasants tend to be pretty earthy, but they also have certain morals (e.g. - the view that adultery is "punishable" - you will somehow suffer if you do this).

In Kyiv in the 1970's and 1980's, there were areas devoted to hookups, depending on what you wanted - men, women, threesomes, even different kinds of sex - different areas, depending on what one was interested in.  I don't know if they still exist, but they certainly did when I lived there.   People also talked of sex more openly than they did where I was from at that time.  But, unlike the West, their advertising was not sexualized, and the CPSU did impose a morality on the society.  As a party member, if you divorced, you could kiss your career goodbye. 

There certainly wasn't the debauchery present today (my theory is, this is a result of "Big Brother" disappearing), but I never saw the Slavic parts of the FSU as sexually repressed. 

So, I think the American's "theory" is so far out to lunch as to be laughable.

Offline bagalia

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #57 on: January 02, 2012, 02:44:12 AM »
I do not see her as a prostitute ~ others may if you use some definitions above.

Prostitute, Madonna whore, Sponsored woman or Girl in an uncomfortable position. To prostitute is to prostitute. Others may see it differently yes.

Nothing matters but the truth and what you think about it. I care about who the person is now. In the military I killed people. I am a murderer. I have not killed lately nor do I intend to in the future. I am me now. I suppose I carry some baggage but nobody knows it and I do not care much about it. It made a part of me who I am now but that is not bad.


Scott, the article now it seems more than ten years old is poorly written projection of an assumed opinion. The opinion in fact might be true but it is hard to see this as a credible research paper. One of the conclusions stood out though.

Ten years old is good. Those young people then are now the age group we look at. I don't know how good or poorly the paper is, I am a poor writer also but there are little nuggets that ring true far as I know. Much of it is the same that is written here by others.

Scott

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Offline Millaa

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #58 on: January 02, 2012, 02:54:50 AM »
But were I not, I think Millaa could take my place. :king:
No, thanks for such honor ... I can understand may be 1/3 of their posts (and not cuz language problems only  ;D)
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Offline Millaa

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #59 on: January 02, 2012, 03:16:54 AM »
My husband was a sailor.  As his ship docked, there would be women waiting, in every port, to take a man home to get laid, because most of the sailors were young, and they were docking in cities where a third of the men were drunkards. 

More details from that place please  ;D - I spent most of my life living in port city...
if the CPSU did impose a morality on the society in 70-80th, how prostitutes could openly exist?
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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #60 on: January 02, 2012, 10:50:50 AM »

Most people tend to cop a peek at the passports of their intended. A rookie scammer from Moscow I once met in Estonia made an excuse to look at my passport. When she saw three pages of Estonian, Polish, Lithuanian and Latvian stamps, she went straight for the "what the hell" option -  the kill: the fur coat. When she didn't get that, she became suddenly unavailable. Blokes with no stamps were likely easier marks.

Thanks for the warning.  ;D  I just got my passport renewed, hence no stamps.
It is fortunate that a woman's charms can arrest a man's intelligence long enough for copulation to take place.

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Offline Halo

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #61 on: January 02, 2012, 11:41:24 AM »
More details from that place please  ;D - I spent most of my life living in port city...
if the CPSU did impose a morality on the society in 70-80th, how prostitutes could openly exist?

You live in a city that was closed in Soviet times, behind three or four barriers of defense from their own citizens.  Very different.

Prostitution did not exist openly in the USSR.  It was illegal and punishable.  Little Saigon was tolerated because otherwise, the authorities would have had to have find homes for all those children.  It was easier to let them sleep on cots on Nevsky Prospekt.  But those children didn't have sex with people for money.  Rather, they were picked up, and went willingly so they could sleep under a roof for a short time, be it an hour, a night, or a  week, and perhaps get a hot meal.
 
The areas in Kyiv were for hookups, it was not prostitution.

Offline doc holiday

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #62 on: January 02, 2012, 06:23:13 PM »
I have close to the same answer whenever I am asked "Would I marry X" and that answer is "it depends".

There are certain traits I look for in a wife.  A woman who was previously a scammer, prostitute, or sponsored woman has a lower probability of having many of the traits I look for.  So, for that reason, there is a low probability that I would marry a woman with that past.  But, if she did have what I was looking for her, then I would consider it.  Truthfully, if a woman has the most of the qualities I am looking for, then I would be willing to look past many other things most would consider undesirable.

Personally, I think that if a woman was a scammer, then she has a high probability of maintaining that mentality, even if she is not "scamming" anymore.  Certainly not true 100% of the time, but that personality trait tends not to go away and she will likely engage in similar behavior.  I have known a number of ex working girls and dated a woman who worked as a stripper.  A number of these women have many emotional scars, but the ones who (appeared) to not have baggage were mostly great women and were great girlfriends and wives.
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Offline Millaa

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #63 on: January 02, 2012, 08:12:57 PM »
You live in a city that was closed in Soviet times, behind three or four barriers of defense from their own citizens.  Very different.

It never was a reservation ... so what? I travelled a lot – the only place in USSR I never was – Turkmenistan and Kushka... never remember homeless kids at streets in USSR times.
Well, I can tell u a story about prostitution in 90th…My friends husband just started his business. 2 usa businessmen arrived to sign the contracts to Vlad… Just at time 2 resonant murders happened. Russians decided to divert them from criminal news and hire prostitutes for them. They payed them a lot but told not to show they were doing job for money. It was not a hard tasks for girls – both were lawyer students in local university  (probably  that’s 4/5 statistics were taken among  the law faculties).
A few days later, when the noise died down around the murders, russians could not find their companions ... They found the girls who told – take your filthy money back, we are honest, we are getting married. One of them actually married in the USA
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Offline Halo

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #64 on: January 02, 2012, 10:40:40 PM »
Quote
It never was a reservation ... so what? I travelled a lot – the only place in USSR I never was – Turkmenistan and Kushka... never remember homeless kids at streets in USSR times.

It meant that the city was far more controlled.  Even Soviets could not enter the city without proper documentation.  So, its culture was a little different from most Soviet cities.

My husband, who is probably older than you, lived in then Leningrad, and he lived in Kyiv.  He saw homeless in both those cities, first in the 1970's in Leningrad, at a time when alcohol had not yet ravaged Ukraine, so it was unusual in Ukraine, and later, in Kyiv.  He could tell you the exact intersection on which homeless kids lived in Leningrad, it was over two blocks.  He has told me homelessness existed all the way up to the collapse of the USSR.

Offline Millaa

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #65 on: January 03, 2012, 12:11:28 AM »
Quote
It never was a reservation ... so what? I travelled a lot – the only place in USSR I never was – Turkmenistan and Kushka... never remember homeless kids at streets in USSR times.

It meant that the city was far more controlled.  Even Soviets could not enter the city without proper documentation.  So, its culture was a little different from most Soviet cities.

My husband, who is probably older than you, lived in then Leningrad, and he lived in Kyiv.  He saw homeless in both those cities, first in the 1970's in Leningrad, at a time when alcohol had not yet ravaged Ukraine, so it was unusual in Ukraine, and later, in Kyiv.  He could tell you the exact intersection on which homeless kids lived in Leningrad, it was over two blocks.  He has told me homelessness existed all the way up to the collapse of the USSR.

Hardly believe in that ... probably his memory is not thats good and he's talking about the end of 80-90th?  During Breznevs times it could not exist   :smokin: all "homeless" kids lived in internats under state care, took 8 class education and  joined the ranks of the working class...

The first statement is funny too... Your husband ever was there or just heard the legends?  ;D
The ideological pressure was similiar for everybody...
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Offline Halo

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #66 on: January 03, 2012, 12:35:51 AM »
Oh, his memory is perfect, Millaa.

No, he is talking about the 1970's, when he lived there.  And yes, he did live there, for a considerable length of time.  The area in Leningrad was known then as "Little Saigon".  The kids were on the street because their parents were alcoholics, or had remarried and threw them out.  He said "All those good Komsomol members, in their fancy suits, would pass these kids daily, on their way to their office (which was nearby), not thinking about the homeless kids."

I asked why authorities tolerated it, and he said ideologically, they could not admit this problem existed in the workers' paradise.  He said the police tolerated their presence because what could they do?  They had nowhere to house these kids.

Believe it or not, it is a fact.

You are also wrong about "ideological pressure".  My husband's family, on both sides, were prominent before the Revolution.  Despite being denied higher education and while he should have been part of the working class, he was told that he was not "ideologically pure", was not part of the working class and would never earn that right.

Are you denying Vladivostok was a closed city? 

Are you denying that before entering any closed city, a non resident needed permission to enter it?

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #67 on: January 03, 2012, 01:13:33 AM »
You are also wrong about "ideological pressure".  My husband's family, on both sides, were prominent before the Revolution.  Despite being denied higher education and while he should have been part of the working class, he was told that he was not "ideologically pure", was not part of the working class and would never earn that right.

My experience with Masha in Kiev does not support this, her family points to a very different reality.

Masha's family was Jewish but "converted" to Christianity in the early 50's. I never heard the details (and this is important). She was a professor until about 10 years ago at University. She received numerous patents which she used as wall paper in her kitchen. (They were worthless as income sources.) The Soviet Union controlled this, but she lectured internationally and is still reviewing papers & thesis.

Masha's father was also a university professor in languages before 1991 and now owns a publishing company. Perhaps odd Masha see her self as Christian in thought and mind.

My guess it is a question if you are open and adaptable.
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Offline Halo

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #68 on: January 03, 2012, 01:25:09 AM »
I am talking about the Bolshevik Revolution.

To become a university professor in the USSR, for the most part, and to travel abroad meant that you came from the "working class".  You had to prove absolute fealty to the system.  Someone with that pedigree, at some point, informed on classmates and made others' lives miserable.  Trust me on this.  The funny thing is, they all have very different stories of "who they were" after the collapse of the USSR.  Nobody was an informant in a system in which 1 in 10 of general population was an informant (one in four at universities - after the collapse of the USSR, the KGB officer in charge of Leningrad University said he got tired of listening to informants.  Infiltration was so high "Informants were informing on informants.").

Few would have converted to Christianity in Ukraine in the 1950's, even during the so called "thaw", as churches were always all monitored, and anyone who did so would never have made it to the position of a university professor.  Even entering the faculty to study at that level required obkom approval.  Even during so called "perestroika", at Easter, Komsomol members would stand outside St. Vladimir's in Kyiv and check internal passports.  Party or Komsomol members who attended church were taken out, by bus, 30 km outside city limits and were dropped off to walk back to the city in the dark (there were no buses running).  They also had to answer for attending church once they returned to work.

All those sweet little babushkas walking around churches at all hours of the day in the old days, asking people questions?  - On party orders.  They would often try to provoke real believers. 

Honestly, Av, my husband would laugh at Masha's story as "one told to a gullible foreigner".  (No offense intended, it's just what he would say.)

It has nothing to do with being "open" and "adaptable".  My husband's grandfather was arrested on political charges and survived only because as he was to be deported to a gulag (i.e., death), Stalin died.  His father was a political prisoner.  His other grandfather hid in Siberia for 7 years.  He was lucky - it was early enough that there was no internal passport system to catch him. 

My husband began being searched by authorities as a baby in a pram.  More than one person he knew made his career by informing on members of my husband's family.  My husband remembers a classmate who had a very difficult school life.  He was "hated", my husband said.  About a decade ago or so, my husband read about the classmate's grandfather (or great grandfather, I can't recall offhand).  He was the Tsar's most trusted general.  "Ah," my husband told me "it all makes sense now.  They were always spitting poison at him, and now I know why."  Now, how could that young man, whose grades were decreased because he came from the "wrong ideological background", who was so persecuted, it was noticed, have "adapted" in a system which required an internal enemy?  Or one who was searched as a baby?  More than once, my husband heard, usually from a female teacher "I have children.  One day you'll understand."  Usually whispered, so no one else could hear.  A few days before he left the then USSR, after the failed coup attempt, another teacher told him she'd been forced to give him lower marks than he had earned.  He pretended not to hear her.

Could he have become an informant and had an easier life?  Yes.  But he said he had to live with his conscience, and decided he would rather die than live by destroying others and being something he was not.

I have been questioned by the KGB (mildly).  My husband, before and after our marriage, was questioned by the KGB intensely.  So please, don't tell me stories of a life and system when you are deemed "ideologically impure", that you know nothing about.

Offline Millaa

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #69 on: January 03, 2012, 01:43:09 AM »
Oh, his memory is perfect, Millaa.

No, he is talking about the 1970's, when he lived there.  And yes, he did live there, for a considerable length of time.  The area in Leningrad was known then as "Little Saigon".  The kids were on the street because their parents were alcoholics, or had remarried and threw them out.  He said "All those good Komsomol members, in their fancy suits, would pass these kids daily, on their way to their office (which was nearby), not thinking about the homeless kids."

I asked why authorities tolerated it, and he said ideologically, they could not admit this problem existed in the workers' paradise.  He said the police tolerated their presence because what could they do?  They had nowhere to house these kids.

Believe it or not, it is a fact.

You are also wrong about "ideological pressure".  My husband's family, on both sides, were prominent before the Revolution.  Despite being denied higher education and while he should have been part of the working class, he was told that he was not "ideologically pure", was not part of the working class and would never earn that right.

Are you denying Vladivostok was a closed city? 

Are you denying that before entering any closed city, a non resident needed permission to enter it?
Отвечать по-русски мне проще, so sorry  ;D
В каком году муж отсюда уехал? Я б не стала очень-то уж доверять свидетельствам эммигрантов... по различным причинам... Да, Владивосток был закрытым городом, хотя до станции Санаторная (это пригород) можно было доехать на поезде без проблем, а затем пересесть на электричку  ;D... Делало ли это Владивосток резервацией или, напротив, этаким раем на земле? увы - нет.
Ну не было в СССР бездомных детей при Брежневе, и быть не могло.  Все должны были получать среднее образование. Из маленьких деревень детей свозили в интернаты, мой бывший как раз в таком все детство провел. Если у кого-то была страсть попутешествовать - ловили, отправляли в спецприемники, в трудовые колонии для несовершеннолетних. Так что, куда их девать - всегда находилось.
Про высшее образование... на моем курсе комсоргом был молчел с фамилией Штительман... возможно в МАРХИ он бы не поступил, а во Владивостоке преспокойно учился... и главный конструктор, там где я работала потом, имел фамилию Вогман, а начальником был крымский татарин... И помоталась я в свое время по Союзу предостаточно, благо средства позволяли и родни было много... нигде бездомных не встречала - ни у деда в Вышгороде, ни у дядьки в Самарканде, ни у другого - в Риге...  ;D
Про Армению с Грузией вообще молчу... в Питере (тогдашнем Ленинграде) практику проходила несколько месяцев, постоянно в порт моталась - у меня мама тогда в пароходстве работала, так я в их гостинице жила  ;D ничего близко похожего не наблюдалось...
Особенно меня умиляет, когда иностранцы начинают мне глаза на жизнь раскрывать... Эх, как хорошо мы плохо жили  :chuckle:
Да, кстати, дед мой (который грузин) отсидел свои 15 лет в лагерях, семья (бабушка и дети) были сосланы в восточный Казахстан, по материнской линии - кулаки, только сослали их недалече - на Амур...
короче, из неблагонадежной я семейки  :chuckle:
Скептический ум - страшное оружие с собственным счастьем

Offline Millaa

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #70 on: January 03, 2012, 01:51:50 AM »
So please, don't tell me stories of a life and system you know nothing about.
indeed ...
well, all said above was a reality in 50th... are we talking about that period? and how old is ur husband if he still remembers Stalins times thats well but being a young sailor in 70th?  :chuckle:
Скептический ум - страшное оружие с собственным счастьем

Offline Halo

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #71 on: January 03, 2012, 01:57:17 AM »
I'll answer your previous post tomorrow, Millaa, as I'm off to bed.

No, my husband's Grandfather was arrested in the 1950's.  His father was arrested as a political prisoner in the 1960's.  When his father got out of jail, he took my husband on a tour so he would understand the real country he lived in.  He learned how to bribe police (how much, how to approach them, etc.), where it was safe to talk and where it was not, among other things I won't disclose.  Those lessons were invaluable, as they kept him out of jail long term (he was arrested numerous times and held for the maximum time permitted.  I'll disclose one such arrest.  It was for attending a foreign art show in Kyiv.  Everyone was arrested as they exited the museum.)

My husband was surrounded by informants throughout his childhood in the 1960's and 1970's (when he was in school) and through the 1980's, up to the coup.  He was one of only two on his ship who refused to join the Komsomol (he claimed he was not "ideologically ready"), and neither he nor the other young man received vacation leave to which they were legally entitled. 

During the coup, my husband was under house arrest.  He was told he "would be taken care of like all filthy traitors" by someone he had never seen before, nor after.

Offline Millaa

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #72 on: January 03, 2012, 02:09:41 AM »
My husband was surrounded by informants throughout his childhood in the 1960's and 1970's (when he was in school) and through the 1980's, up to the coup.  He was one of only two on his ship who refused to join the Komsomol (he claimed he was not "ideologically ready"), and neither he nor the other young man received vacation leave to which they were legally entitled. 

During the coup, my husband was under house arrest.  He was told he "would be taken care of like all filthy traitors" by someone he had never seen before, nor after.
Aha..  we are almost the same age ...  ;D I went to school in 1970, joined to komsomol in 1978, and refused to join CPSU in 1986 ... somehow i was not arrested and even got a premium for designing of the antiradiation shelters for the civilian population of Kamchatka in the case of a nuclear attack of the potential enemies  ;D
Unlike your husband I had no tours around this country, I just live here.  tiphat
Скептический ум - страшное оружие с собственным счастьем

Online AvHdB

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #73 on: January 03, 2012, 03:02:42 AM »
Halo, Odd how memory works, going back to the Bolshevik Revolution that is generally considered family fables or tales from my perspective. Bear in mind I am talking about one family who has lived for generations in Ukraine, Kiev. For what it is worth I can explain my families difficulties with a certain French (depending on perspective) leader or dictator in the 19th century. Big deal in my opinion.

I can only say I studied the publications, some were often translated in German or English. I also read the wall paper in Kiev. There were also numerous foto’s made around the world as she lectured. She now is one of those babushka's with a twinkle in her eye. Most likely she would be furious if she read this description.

The father has a technical publishing firm and makes a reasonable living. Oddly enough the government about four years ago gave him a citation for his publications and asked him he wanted to become a professor. It seems the new government did not know that he quite being a professor some 20 years ago so he could make some money!

Masha only visited the church twice a year, I never heard about her parents attendance. But I suspect if you are rigid and not flexible you will meet allot more authorities.

Understand that I admire your husbands fortitude and I can realize and learn from things that you post on RUA In my opinion every ideologically system is impure and I can only relay what I heard and seen. If one can adapt and prove there worth instead of retrench and dig there heels in one usually can do more than just survive.

Do not tell me what I can and can not say.
“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #74 on: January 03, 2012, 03:04:51 AM »
Halo, in reading Millaa's response, you are closer than some may realize.

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To become a university professor in the USSR, for the most part, and to travel abroad meant that you came from the "working class".  You had to prove absolute fealty to the system.  Someone with that pedigree, at some point, informed on classmates and made others' lives miserable.  Trust me on this.  The funny thing is, they all have very different stories of "who they were" after the collapse of the USSR.


Of course. The Lenin statute/bust in my library was hastily pulled out of a ceiling crawl space and I hauled it on the Metro wrapped in a "99-Cents Only" oversize cloth shopping bag because someone was afraid during those early days after the fall.


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Few would have converted to Christianity in Ukraine in the 1950's, even during the so called "thaw", as churches were always all monitored, and anyone who did so would never have made it to the position of a university professor.  Even entering the faculty to study at that level required obkom approval.
 

I understand that the decades were different and so were cities/regions. My MIL (in Moscow) married a Jewish man after my wife's father passed away in the 70s and he converted. He unfortunately died just a few years later.

Even Stalin's children were baptized. Just not in public.

When my late father in law was alive he attended church often in Moscow. At work he attended the Coptic church every Sunday when he was an Assistant Soviet Ambassador to Egypt and then the Ethiopian Orthodox Church when he was posted there (where my wife was born and baptized Orthodox).

My FIL obviously had some influence and he was Orthodox. My MIL until last year was a professor at Moscow for decades after their return from diplomatic postings. She often attended church but she can also tell of being questioned about it and her take was that if you didn't flaunt it, one could practice and survive but it had to be left at home. She remains on a first name basis with a man I detest--Aleksandr Lukashenko.

We've been pulled over in a traffic stop only to have her blast a couple of policemen and give them a tongue lashing in days when most folks were simply opening wallets. The older supervisor listened to her and made a phone call. The cash stayed in wallets as we pulled away. I don't know the full extent of their influence but she and my late FIL traveled abroad frequently.

During the days of Stalin her family hid a Bible, prayer books and icons under a wood floor of their home (their pre-apartment days). Both MIL and FIL had to attend those gawd awful weekly meetings when younger, got their books stamped with each accomplishment level and her library of Lenin's red books along with Marx only got packed away last year when we moved to a new dacha.


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Even during so called "perestroika", at Easter, Komsomol members would stand outside St. Vladimir's in Kyiv and check internal passports.  Party or Komsomol members who attended church were taken out, by bus, 30 km outside city limits and were dropped off to walk back to the city in the dark (there were no buses running).  They also had to answer for attending church once they returned to work.

I have heard similar stories but others got away with it. Depended on whom you knew. Yes, things under Gorbachev weren't exactly a picnic. There is a tape recording of him laughing when briefed that the Korean airliner was shot down with an American congressman on board and a couple hundred died.