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Author Topic: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?  (Read 12593 times)

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Offline shakespear

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #25 on: December 29, 2011, 12:59:49 PM »
I don't know about other countries but Canada immigration asks for a well detailed history of her previous residences, work and education history, marriages and names of those husbands. It gives you a pretty good insight into her life before you met her. 

Do you REALLY think she is going to reveal that she was a prostitute, otherwise paid sex worker or marriage agency scammer on her immigration documents? 

The all city police record check would be more useful in this regard, however to my knowledge, the visa sponsor does not have access to this information; only the embassy personnel. 
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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #26 on: December 29, 2011, 01:17:35 PM »
I don't know about other countries but Canada immigration asks for a well detailed history of her previous residences, work and education history, marriages and names of those husbands. It gives you a pretty good insight into her life before you met her. 

Do you REALLY think she is going to reveal that she was a prostitute, otherwise paid sex worker or marriage agency scammer on her immigration documents? 

The all city police record check would be more useful in this regard, however to my knowledge, the visa sponsor does not have access to this information; only the embassy personnel.

 Actually they do ask for a police record too (I forgot to mention) that has to be translated and notarized. Of course it is still possible that she could have had some involvement with this if she had never had a conviction. I'm not saying it is definate proof.
 What I am saying is that seeing all of this gives you a good indication of her history, you are not going in totally blind with just her word to go by. For example my wife went to University right after school, was married at 19 right up until 3 years before we met. During this time she also owned a store which she still runs today. I would find it hard to believe that somewhere in that history she was a prostitute or a scammer! 

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #27 on: December 29, 2011, 02:36:41 PM »
Quote
It's worth noting that HIV in the FSU is mostly confined to intravenous drug users and has not crossed into the general population, although there are infected sex workers but they are mostly also drug users.

Unfortunately, not quite the case.

The United Nations says that HIV/AIDS in the FSU has reached epidemic levels.

The World Bank
"The clock is ticking: attaining the HIV/TB MDG targets in the former Soviet Union countries" by Patricio V. Marquez, 2011-10-09

Some countries of the former Soviet Union, the so-called CIS countries, are facing difficult challenges to achieve the HIV/tuberculosis-related Millennium Development Goal (MDG 6) by 2015. The continuing growth of new HIV cases, insufficient access to prevention services and treatment for people living with HIV, combined with the severity of region’s tuberculosis (TB) epidemic (particularly multi-drug resistant TB) are major challenges.

On October 10-12, 2011, the Russian government, along with UNAIDS, the Global Fund, and the World Bank, is hosting in Moscow a high-level forum to discuss these challenges and ways to reach MDG 6 in the CIS.


Read article here: http://blogs.worldbank.org/health/node/523


World Bank and Russian government, in 2011, acknowledge that HIV cases are on the rise:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/xrmV9wRMwUA#!" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/xrmV9wRMwUA#!</a>



World Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections
HIV Spreads to General Population in Former Soviet Union
(http://www.thebody.com/content/art14938.html)



EATG-European Aids Treatment Group
HIV/AIDS experts at conference express concern about HIV/AIDS epidemic in former Soviet Union states.
Read article here.


European Observatory on Health Systems and Policies and London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine
(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20939262)

For several years, some of the countries of the former Soviet Union have experienced the fastest growing HIV epidemic in the world, with the vast majority of reported infections contracted through injecting drug use. However, most governments of the region have been slow to recognize the severity of the problem. The scope and coverage of governmental HIV/AIDS programmes have remained very limited. Harm reduction programmes are mainly financed by external donors, while substitution treatment remains illegal in Russia and unavailable in some other countries of the region. Being based on a review of published and grey literature, this paper explores attitudinal and societal barriers to scaling up HIV programmes in the countries of the former Soviet Union. A major challenge in many countries is negative public attitudes towards people living with HIV, as well as towards those most at risk of contracting the disease: injecting drug users, sex workers, and men who have sex with men. This extends to the actions of state authorities which often pursue a punitive approach to drug users, with high rates of incarceration for minor drug offences.

While many of the findings reported here relate to the Russian Federation, there is reason to believe that similar challenges exist in many other countries of the former Soviet Union. More needs to be done to document challenges to HIV prevention and treatment programmes across the region, so that policy interventions can be more effective.


New England Journal of Medicine
by Mark G. Field, PhD

As compared with most nations affected by the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) and AIDS, the countries of the former Soviet Bloc encountered the disease rather late. The first public announcement of cases of HIV infection in the former Soviet Union came in the mid-1980s and was greeted with denial and derision: many believed that AIDS could not happen there and that it must therefore be limited to homosexuals, drug addicts, and other “deviants,” as well as black Africans and foreign tourists. Some believed that HIV was developed by the United States as part of the Cold War, to be “tested” on marginalized persons who led a disorderly sexual life.

The epidemic may have taken a long time to reach this region because of the strict controls once placed on the movement of people and contacts with foreigners. With the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, the barriers between its republics and the rest of the world tumbled down, facilitating the propagation of the virus. Today, this region has some of the fastest-growing rates of HIV infection in the world, according to the United Nations Development Program (UNDP).1

Because of the nature of the disease, measuring the extent and progression of the epidemic is a matter of educated estimates based on a variety of indexes and assumptions (see FigureFigureEstimated Prevalence of HIV Infection and Number of People Living with HIV Infection or AIDS, End of 2001.). In 2003, the official Russian figure was 240,000 cases of HIV infection. The United Nations estimate was 750,000 to 1.2 million — somewhere around 1 percent of the adult population. Predictions vary widely, but some estimate that by 2020, the figure will be as high as 14.5 million.2 There is wide variation from region to region and from town to town, in other former Soviet republics and in Eastern Europe more generally, with the highest rates in the major cities. Most infected persons (about 80 percent) are younger than 30 years of age (as compared with about 30 percent in the United States).

The primary carriers of the disease are boys and young men, although the rates among women are increasing. The virus spread first among users of injection drugs (mainly opiates obtained from neighboring Afghanistan) who share syringes, needles, and sometimes a home brew of drugs. Other groups at risk are homosexuals and bisexuals, with transmission from the latter group contributing to the epidemic among women and, through them, newborns. Prostitution also contributes to the spread of the virus, since few sex workers insist that their partners wear condoms and many men refuse to do so. Other important incubators are the prisons, where inmates are held for unconscionably long periods in abysmal conditions — crowding, poor nutrition, dismal medical care, and exposure to homosexual activity — before going to trial. When prisoners are released into the community, they contribute to the further spread of the disease.

There have also been several iatrogenic cases resulting from the use of contaminated equipment in the vaccination of infants, as well as nosocomial infections among patients in Russia and Romania. The blood supply has often been contaminated owing to a lax testing system and a black market that arose in response to blood shortages.

The medical system inherited from the Soviet Union was woefully underfinanced and poorly supplied and equipped. The medical establishment and clinicians were unaware of many Western medical advances. The collapse of the political system led to a further deterioration of health care. The UNDP estimates that in the Russian Federation, the current per capita annual expenditure for HIV infection and AIDS amounts to 5 rubles — the price of a pack of cheap cigarettes.4

According to the UNDP, when the prevalence of AIDS reaches about 1 percent of the adult population, it should be taken as a warning signal that a tipping point has been reached. If the epidemic is not addressed with drastic and effective measures, it becomes difficult to constrain or reverse.

The demographic projections are equally dismal. Since the early 1990s, the population has been decreasing steadily, and this trend is expected to continue. AIDS is expected to kill about 20 million Russians by 2025, and given the toll of tuberculosis, cardiovascular disease, and other sexually transmitted diseases such as syphilis, the population of Russia may be 100 million or lower by midcentury, as compared with 144 million in 2003, arousing concern about implications for Russian territorial integrity.





Offline Boris

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2011, 02:41:37 PM »
Mendy, you and your silly facts... :laugh:

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2011, 03:29:26 PM »
You can buy pretty much any document you want in Ukraine.
I am quite sure getting a clean police report, would not be to difficult or expensive.
There is nothing permanent except change.

Online d672

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2011, 04:00:46 PM »
You can buy pretty much any document you want in Ukraine.
I am quite sure getting a clean police report, would not be to difficult or expensive.

 Maybe you can. I sure if you know the right connections you can buy yourself a whole new identity too. But how many women would actually do this?

 This conversation actually makes me think about how much guys here at home know about their western fiancees before they marry them. How many do a background check? Do most guys research her history right from when she left high school until you meet her? I cant think of hearing about one guy I know do this and I had never done this with the 3 women who I had lived with in the past.

 A good example is my brother. he got married three years ago to a woman who told him that she had been married 1 time before. She turned out to be pretty much the craziest woman I've ever seen and they got divorced last spring. After that he found out she had been married 3 times before!!! And she had a history of abusing her daughter and violence toward her spouses. But when he met her she seemed great, he fell in love and the thought that she would have this kind of history didn't even cross his mind. He didn't even think about getting a background check and I'm  sure that most guys are the same way.

 So the way I see it, it's probably more common to know about your wife from FSU's history than it would be to know about your western wifes because of the information they have to give for immigration

 By the way Shakey, I forgot to mention in my previous post that all her information gets sent to us, the sponsor and we submit it in with our sponsorship application. So we do get to see it all, not just the immigration personnal.   

Offline shakespear

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2011, 04:07:18 PM »
By the way Shakey, I forgot to mention in my previous post that all her information gets sent to us, the sponsor and we submit it in with our sponsorship application. So we do get to see it all, not just the immigration personnal.

I just noticed, you are in Canada.  We are in the USA.  The procedure is different.
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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2011, 04:14:35 PM »
You can buy pretty much any document you want in Ukraine.
I am quite sure getting a clean police report, would not be to difficult or expensive.

 Maybe you can. I sure if you know the right connections you can buy yourself a whole new identity too. But how many women would actually do this?

 This conversation actually makes me think about how much guys here at home know about their western fiancees before they marry them. How many do a background check? Do most guys research her history right from when she left high school until you meet her? I cant think of hearing about one guy I know do this and I had never done this with the 3 women who I had lived with in the past.

 A good example is my brother. he got married three years ago to a woman who told him that she had been married 1 time before. She turned out to be pretty much the craziest woman I've ever seen and they got divorced last spring. After that he found out she had been married 3 times before!!! And she had a history of abusing her daughter and violence toward her spouses. But when he met her she seemed great, he fell in love and the thought that she would have this kind of history didn't even cross his mind. He didn't even think about getting a background check and I'm  sure that most guys are the same way.

 So the way I see it, it's probably more common to know about your wife from FSU's history than it would be to know about your western wifes because of the information they have to give for immigration

 By the way Shakey, I forgot to mention in my previous post that all her information gets sent to us, the sponsor and we submit it in with our sponsorship application. So we do get to see it all, not just the immigration personnal.

Actually it would likely surprise you, what you can get there and how cheap. Unless you are there when she is getting these documents, your right you don"t know her unless you do a background check !

Hey Manny another spin of topic ( how many do, would or think of background check? Or do you take it as you see it?
Or are you so mesmerized by her beauty and the cute accent, you forget to ask? it is after all a tad bit more complicated than a local girl. :laugh:
There is nothing permanent except change.

Offline Manny

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2011, 04:22:52 PM »
Hey Manny another spin of topic ( how many do, would or think of background check? Or do you take it as you see it?

In Russia, I recall the internal passport records domestic marriages. The international passport records all foreign travel. I assume Ukraine is similar?

Most people tend to cop a peek at the passports of their intended. A rookie scammer from Moscow I once met in Estonia made an excuse to look at my passport. When she saw three pages of Estonian, Polish, Lithuanian and Latvian stamps, she went straight for the "what the hell" option -  the kill: the fur coat. When she didn't get that, she became suddenly unavailable. Blokes with no stamps were likely easier marks.
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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2011, 06:41:20 PM »
Emphasis is on intelligent rational thinking women - having multiple sex partners for pay in the age of HIV or HSV (Genital Warts that cause most cervical cancers) etc etc is not rational...

"Human Papilloma Virus"

"

Er ah um yeah HPV what he said - HIV, HSV, HPV all unpleasant, incurable if no advance HPV inoculations for young ladies and men and no bowl of cherries - I did mention there are about 26 nasty STDs no one wants to catch - these are 3 of the worst.

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2011, 07:53:48 PM »
Time for a little Russian lesson in this thread.  :chuckle:

Стрип-Клуб

This one is way too easy. It's a cognate, borrowed from English so just translate letter-for-letter from Cyrillic to Ahn-gleeski.


Online andrewfi

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #36 on: December 30, 2011, 12:48:35 AM »
Mendy, you and your silly facts... :laugh:

Actually, Mendy's silly facts support the statement I made.
A bloke seeking a wife in Russia is most unlikely to come across HIV if he ain't dealing with the hookers hanging around railways stations. Of course that is something of a generalisation as you can find similar people hanging around in cellars of abandoned buildings, on the fringes of rynoks and the like and not everybody with HIV is a drug injecting hooker. But the betting man would get rich backing that side of the card. ;)

If one was a casual injecting heroin user in the US then one would be mad to do the same in Russia and region.

And for sure, avoiding gaol time is a sensible precaution anywhere, but you get the point, yes?
Unless one is an idiot the people a wife hunter from the USA will come across are very, very unlikely to come across HIV, let alone AIDS.
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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #37 on: December 31, 2011, 11:56:29 AM »
Andrew, with all due respect, did you miss the part about how the spread of HIV AIDS has moved from druggies/hookers and into the general population? The main cause listed by the experts seems to be ignorance of the dangers by the general population.

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #38 on: December 31, 2011, 02:08:28 PM »

Now, lets blur the line on the term "prostitution" in the FSU and call it "sponsorship". (If you don't know how that works in the FSU, we have topics on it - use "search" before replying). In the FSU, "dancers", "models", "hostess" and a host of other labels for different ways of making a living can often [although not always] be lumped into the same category.


I my opinion there is a vast difference between prostitution and sponsorship, or for that matter any of the other above definitions. Prostitution is forced and in my mind implies that the women has NO say in conditions and circumstances of the "intimacy". I would include escort, dancer, model with sponsorship where there is an understanding between two consenting parties who are reasonably mature enough to know there goals and dreams.


Would you marry an ex scammer?

Would you marry an ex hooker?

Would you marry an ex sponsored woman?

Would you rather not know and take her at face value?


To the answer the first three questions it depends on the woman.

Categorically I would want to understand & have both a friendship and relationship with the woman.
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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2012, 03:57:32 AM »
Andrew, with all due respect, did you miss the part about how the spread of HIV AIDS has moved from druggies/hookers and into the general population? The main cause listed by the experts seems to be ignorance of the dangers by the general population.

Yes, and WITH THE GREATEST OF POSSIBLE RESPECT because I can do basic maths I know that my point is correct. The betting man would get rich on my side of the argument. ;)

It is analogous the to situation in the US where, even now, the incidence of HIV is confined on the whole to certain easily identifiable demographic groups. That does not mean the ONLY people who get HIV are male gay Hershey drillers or people sharing works, but if you are NOT in those groups you do not have much to worry about. The numbers tell the tale.

There are some intersting things to note. Research backs up my suggestion that HIV in Russia is heavily georelated. Of all HIV infections over 50% occur in just 4 regions: Moscow, Moscow oblast, Krasnodar and Kaliningrad with Kaliningrad being the heavy leader.

Within these regions, infections tend to be clustered in small parts of some urban areas.

Around 2 times as many men as women are infected.

The route for infection to move into the general population is through infecting drug users and their intersection with prostitutes. As you Mendy, a real Russian expert already know, injection is a class related thing and that drug injecting hookers are the lowest of the low.

Not many wife hunters are going to meet with people in these sink groups.
As a real Russian expert mendy you already know this stuff, don't you?
So why try to sugegst otherwise?
What is your agenda here?

Does any of this mean that HIV is not an issue?
No.

Does this mean that blokes will not meet anyone who carries HIV?
No

But for sure blokes looking at 'normal' Russian women the risks are tiny.
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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #40 on: January 01, 2012, 02:56:49 PM »
A sponsored girl is still a prostitute.

This seems very harsh - if the sponsored person is a male is he a giggy olo. If you know in a quarter of an hour that you want to be with this person is he selling his soul to the "sponsor"

On the other side a woman with serious physical assets, (i.e. beauty and sexuality); should she not be able to maximize her qualities or she should only flip hamburgers at McDonald's or stay at home.

If both parties understand the arrangement where is the harm and abuse.

A prostitute is some one who is forced to sell her or his sexual abilities or charms.
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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #41 on: January 01, 2012, 03:06:32 PM »
Quote
What is your agenda here?


You answered it.

Quote
Does any of this mean that HIV is not an issue?
No.

Offline shakespear

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #42 on: January 01, 2012, 03:20:42 PM »
But for sure blokes looking at 'normal' Russian women the risks are tiny.

I agree completely.

If you have sex and properly use a condom, there aren't enough zeros on your handheld calculator to calculate the odds of you catching AIDS or HIV from that encounter.   
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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #43 on: January 01, 2012, 05:56:04 PM »
A sponsored girl is still a prostitute.

This seems very harsh - if the sponsored person is a male is he a giggy olo. If you know in a quarter of an hour that you want to be with this person is he selling his soul to the "sponsor"

On the other side a woman with serious physical assets, (i.e. beauty and sexuality); should she not be able to maximize her qualities or she should only flip hamburgers at McDonald's or stay at home.

If both parties understand the arrangement where is the harm and abuse.

A prostitute is some one who is forced to sell her or his sexual abilities or charms.

A man or woman who is paid for sex is a prostitute.  It matters not whether they have sex with one person or a thousand for money.   Long lasting relationships between a man and a woman (or, for that matter, a man and a man, or a woman and a woman) are not based on money, but on mutual love (hopefully, and ideally), trust, respect, and honesty.

Many prostitutes choose their lifestyle.  Not all prostitutes are damaged by their experiences.  BTW, Andrew is correct.  In Ukraine, a lot of women have worked as prostitutes or worse, as pimps.  Three of our former neighbours in Kyiv worked as prostitutes.  One worked in an Italian brothel for three years.  She viewed this as absolutely normal.  Lots of Ukrainian girls do.  The neighbour has 3 children, from 3 (different) Ukrainian men, none of whom stuck around (and if you knew her, you would understand why).  She is now in her late thirties, and despite her past, still quite beautiful.  Now, she is searching for a foreign husband.  If she finds one, he will have no idea of her past.

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #44 on: January 01, 2012, 06:16:02 PM »
A sponsored girl is still a prostitute.

This seems very harsh - if the sponsored person is a male is he a giggy olo. If you know in a quarter of an hour that you want to be with this person is he selling his soul to the "sponsor"

On the other side a woman with serious physical assets, (i.e. beauty and sexuality); should she not be able to maximize her qualities or she should only flip hamburgers at McDonald's or stay at home.

If both parties understand the arrangement where is the harm and abuse.

A prostitute is some one who is forced to sell her or his sexual abilities or charms.

Perhaps, if you expanded on your thoughts, one might be able to get some clues from context. As things stand, nothing in the quote above makes a lick of sense.
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Offline Halo

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #45 on: January 01, 2012, 06:40:41 PM »
Perhaps, if you expanded on your thoughts, one might be able to get some clues from context. As things stand, nothing in the quote above makes a lick of sense.

Tom, I suspect this

Quote
This seems very harsh - if the sponsored person is a male is he a giggy olo. If you know in a quarter of an hour that you want to be with this person is he selling his soul to the "sponsor"

was a reference to me, and something I posted in the past about my knowing very quickly that I would marry my husband.  I assume he was asking if my husband was/is(?) a gigolo.  LOL.

When I returned home, I bought my husband a winter coat, at his request.  In Kyiv, he bought almost all my food, and he bought me books and records.  I bought my tickets home (or rather, my family did).  Was he "sponsored" because I bought his coat?  Was I "sponsored" because he bought my food?  No, this was never the basis of our relationship. 

A "sponsored" woman sleeps with a man because he provides for her material needs.  She may have, or develop feelings for him, but money is the impetus for the relationship.  No money, no "relationship".

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #46 on: January 01, 2012, 06:54:20 PM »
Your theory may be correct but it required you to fill in many spaces that he left blank.

According to him, a woman who sells sex, but is not forced to do so, would not be a prostitute. (That definition would exclude the majority of working girls.) The most optimistic possibility is that he wasn't completely lucid when he made the post.   
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Offline Slumba

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #47 on: January 01, 2012, 07:01:54 PM »
Not sure if this thread reflects well, on the wives of the guys who think it would be OK ... ?
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Offline TomT

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #48 on: January 01, 2012, 07:05:21 PM »
Not sure if this thread reflects well, on the wives of the guys who think it would be OK ... ?

What kind of logic is that?
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Offline Millaa

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Re: An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?
« Reply #49 on: January 01, 2012, 07:28:19 PM »
one norg I got used to talk with thinks that any marriage is the form of prostitution  ;D ...
I was trying to remember someone among my friends who might have such occupation in hard times ... nobody... and I dont know any circumstances that have forced me to start thats cariera... of course if a woman has some mental problems - it might be an easierst way for her to find money for living
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