An Ex-Scammer, Ex Sponsored Woman or an Ex-Hooker As A Wife?

[Manny]

I am replicating below a quote and my post from another thread as a topic starter here:

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I once spoke to a women ( now married to western man) who made scamming men a business.
From what I could gather she was very successful. When she got tired of it. her experience gave her the knowledge to find a good one.

Allow me to translate: As she entered her mid thirties (or perhaps early forties), the competition was getting a bit stiff, as size zero 22 year old über-babes were filling the boots she once stood in. Face-to-face scamming becomes less lucrative then. Distance fraud using decade old photos is also easily busted and on the decline as video chat becomes the norm.

A clever scammer then seeks a retirement plan: Choose the next rich foreigner who looks interested enough, nail him to the mattress (job interview), and get a life ticket to the US (or wherever) and learn to make cozy home.

Not an uncommon scenario.

A variation on the theme can be when said scammer unexpectedly meets tall, youngish, socialised, triangular-torsoed guy who looks, smells better and is a decade younger than the last few dozen would-be suitors, and has a few quid. It then becomes like a real life Deal or No Deal in case such an opportunity doesn't pass her way again before the 25" waist fades away and hormones dictate a one way ticket to Babushkaville.

Many men marry scammers and they will never know. Similarly, many men marry ex-hookers because the motivations are similar. Beauty has a shelf life for most. Delaying it takes money. Curiously, it is said by some, such women - after retirement - make excellent wives.

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Now, lets blur the line on the term "prostitution" in the FSU and call it "sponsorship". (If you don't know how that works in the FSU, we have topics on it - use "search" before replying). In the FSU, "dancers", "models", "hostess" and a host of other labels for different ways of making a living can often [although not always] be lumped into the same category.

Would you marry an ex scammer?

Would you marry an ex hooker?

Would you marry an ex sponsored woman?

Would you rather not know and take her at face value? The logic there might be that the sum total of her life experiences made her the woman you met.

I just did a quick Google on the subject and found this forum topic on the subject of hookers. On that 37 page thread, the poll suggests that over 25% might marry an ex prostitute.

What say you?

[Jeff9556]

Depends. I my former line of work I came into contact with many "working women" most if not all had deep psychological scars either as a direct consequence of their work or prior life experiences. If there is sufficient time and heeling (like 5 to 10 years) then maybe... that said you can never really predict who you will fall in love with, however I can't really see myself in love with someone carrying major baggage and other issues.

A scammer? Not really sure either - thinking about the values and morals I want to raise my children with makes me think no... a broken window is a broken window.

Sidenote - a guy I know married an ex working girl, and he knew her history. By all accounts she was a great wife and mother and last I heard they were still happily married going on 15 years.

[shakespear]

What say you?

I'm saying many western men are purposefully ignorant to the past of the ladies they marry.  Most cannot imagine the circumstances these woman had to survive soon after the fall of the Soviet Union. 

A significant number of women who were in their 20's or early 30's during the 1991-1999 time period in the FSU were compelled to have sex with their bosses in order to receive their wages.  Others had  sponsored sexual "relationships" with older successful businessmen.  Who can be judgemental of the actions of others when they have parents or children who are counting on them to put food on the table and pay the heating bill?     

[cufflinks]

Being former military and pragmatic in these matters the old military saying was ex-hookers make great wives because they know how to please their man er ah um men.

Knowing what I know now having been the only IT manager at the time willing to volunteer to work in the Viral Parthenogenesis Center at Harvard Medical School (HIV Drug Cocktails treatments Research center) I would say that having sex with multiple partners is risky and I was relieved that my recent VA physical included a battery of blood tests including HIV for which I was negative.

As it takes a while for the effects of HIV to show the risk is when you sleep with a partner (women included) you sleep with everyone they have slept with the past 8 to 10 years and HIV is now running rampant among young FSU men and women - especially heroin abusers across the FSU.

I am not going to fault anyone for what they may have had to do to survive the 90s - that said if they are still sex workers in the age of HIV it is the modern Russian roulette and you have to question their thinking.  There are 26 dangerous STDs many incurable and several a death sentence sooner or later.

I at this point in my life want an intelligent rational thinking and attractive woman as a wife so she may pass on those qualities to any future offsprings, offshouts, sprogs, sprouts carpet crawlers, rug rats, etc.

Emphasis is on intelligent rational thinking women - having multiple sex partners for pay in the age of HIV or HSV (Genital Warts that cause most cervical cancers) etc etc is not rational - notice moral judgments do not factor with me as a person known to live in a glass house - but with age comes wisdom and it is based upon rational behavior versus harsh medical risks and realities.

[Manny]

What say you?

I'm saying many western men are purposefully ignorant to the past of the ladies they marry.     

I agree, but I would use the term 'societal naïveté' rather than 'purposeful ignorance'.

Sidenote - a guy I know married an ex working girl, and he knew her history. By all accounts she was a great wife and mother and last I heard they were still happily married going on 15 years.

I have heard that first hand from quite a few guys (of various nationalities), and read many more similar accounts. It wouldn't be my first choice, but, if I were a single guy, I would be open-minded if the woman ticked all other boxes.

As a sidenote: One of our neighbours in Estonia runs a strip club. He has a few quid, late 30's, good clothes, three languages, extremely white teeth and a nice car etc. All the time we have been there he has had a string of impossibly beautiful girlfriends; all very obviously picked from his stable of working girls. A couple of years ago he arrived with a very average looking Estonian girl. Then she was pregnant, and now they have a little sprogg and she moved in. All seems rosy in the garden and they look very happy. He clearly eschewed the beauties he worked with and dated and chose a much plainer woman to breed with. I am not sure if they are married yet. Food for thought.

[Jeff9556]

Being former military and pragmatic in these matters the old military saying was ex-hookers make great wives because they know how to please their man er ah um men.

Knowing what I know now having been the only IT manager at the time willing to volunteer to work in the Viral Parthenogenesis Center at Harvard Medical School (HIV Drug Cocktails treatments Research center) I would say that having sex with multiple partners is risky and I was relieved that my recent VA physical included a battery of blood tests including HIV for which I was negative.

As it takes a while for the effects of HIV to show the risk is when you sleep with a partner (women included) you sleep with everyone they have slept with the past 8 to 10 years and HIV is now running rampant among young FSU men and women - especially heroin abusers across the FSU.

I am not going to fault anyone for what they may have had to do to survive the 90s - that said if they are still sex workers in the age of HIV it is the modern Russian roulette and you have to question their thinking.  There are 26 dangerous STDs many incurable and several a death sentence sooner or later.

I at this point in my life want an intelligent rational thinking and attractive woman as a wife so she may pass on those qualities to any future offsprings, offshouts, sprogs, sprouts carpet crawlers, rug rats, etc.

Emphasis is on intelligent rational thinking women - having multiple sex partners for pay in the age of HIV or HSV (Genital Warts that cause most cervical cancers) etc etc is not rational - notice moral judgments do not factor with me as a person known to live in a glass house - but with age comes wisdom and it is based upon rational behavior versus harsh medical risks and realities.

100% correct on the HIV issue (I previously mentioned a former line of work which was in this field). However if you're having unprotected sex with anyone who hasn't been recently tested (within the last 90 days and no other sex partners in the interim or other risky behavior such as sharing needles...) then you are at risk. It's worth noting that HIV in the FSU is mostly confined to intravenous drug users and has not crossed into the general population, although there are infected sex workers but they are mostly also drug users.

FWIW I doubt FSU women have any more or less sex than western women, although quite probably (at least in the past) they have had more unprotected sex due to lack of availability of condoms and lack of education. There was a time when abortion was the contraceptive of choice in the FSU and it still leads the world in the rate of abortions.

[Larry]

What say you?

I'm saying many western men are purposefully ignorant to the past of the ladies they marry.  Most cannot imagine the circumstances these woman had to survive soon after the fall of the Soviet Union. 

A significant number of women who were in their 20's or early 30's during the 1991-1999 time period in the FSU were compelled to have sex with their bosses in order to receive their wages.  Others had  sponsored sexual "relationships" with older successful businessmen.  Who can be judgemental of the actions of others when they have parents or children who are counting on them to put food on the table and pay the heating bill?     

Excellent point.

Would you marry an ex scammer?

I would be leery of a scammer.  If she did it as a last-recourse way to pay her living expenses I might proceed, although with incredible caution. If she did it to buy Dolce & Gabbana clothes, I don't think I would give her a chance. 

Would you marry an ex hooker?

I wouldn't completely exclude the possibility, but as has been noted above, many strippers and hookers have some substantial emotional problems.

Would you marry an ex sponsored woman?

Yes, I would, adopting Shakey's reasoning above, that in horrible economic times people have to put food on the table, keep paying the rent, etc.  I've actually had this discussion with my girlfriend.  And no, she wasn't a sponsored girl.  She responded that she knows a Russian girl slightly who has a sponsor.  This girl doesn't have a university education or any decent job skills and she has a small child to support and a poor family who can't help her.  So her sponsor pays her bills and puts food on the table for the girl and her daughter.

I don't view this as behavior that would make her a bad wife down the road.  It's an arrangement in which both parties get what they want.  She is able to pay her bills and he gets sex with an attractive girl.  I don't view this as anyone taking advantage of anyone else.

[Halo]

A sponsored girl is still a prostitute.

[Krassie]

LOL!

[WestCoast]

Manny how would the average WM know that the FSUW he came to the FSU to visit was an ex hooker, ex scammer, etC?  If the woman was successful in her previous life she must be reasonably intelligent and might set up shop in a different city or at least a different area of the city when she went looking for a "husband" for real. 

If the WM doesn't speak/read Russian he would miss anything nasty being said about her by any local who might know her and if she was a pro she would know how to soothe any suspicions he might have.   

As for a former sponsored woman, realistically I would look at her as the same as a divorced woman.  She just got out before the mistake was completed and made more difficult to escape.

[Larry]

A sponsored girl is still a prostitute.

I don't know whether this comment was directed to 1) Manny, with the implied suggestion that he merge his second and third questions on the grounds that they are identical,  to 2) anyone who gives a different response to the second and third questions, or to 3) someone or something else entirely.

But in case it was option number 2 above, I'll respond.  While a sponsored girl might be engaging in activities that come under the definition of prostitution, I would be much more comfortable dating a girl who had been sponsored rather than a call girl, or even worse, a streetwalker.  The latter often seem to have some serious emotional problems that I don't want to deal with.

[NS1]

I would prefer to stay away from hooker as for most of the reasons, posted above.
As for the rest, I would consider it carefully, presuming they told me
Odds are you would never know of her past to that level. I have heard a few brutal stories of what most women have had to do in the past, just to survive. If you found out later could be another interesting topic:)
I Wonder how many married men, live with a women with any of these pasts.
Also how many even know it

[bagalia]

I was married to a Thai back in 74. Spent most of 6 years in the orient where the only women you meet were prostitutes. Nobody gave it much thought and it was pretty much taken for granted when you met other couples that they were also prostitutes at some point. You might keep that in mind if you know any old military guys with Thai, Vietnamese, Korean or Philippine wives.

I once knew a supported woman in Russia. He was 20 years or so older and married. He cared for her, gave her lots of money and... she loved him quite a lot. Unfortunately, she understood that she was getting older and the relationship would never go anywhere so she looked for a foreign man. I do not believe she ever found one that was as good or had as much money as the first guy. I think she gave a few men heart attacks (the virtual kind). She would have made a good wife for a rich guy. She would have been seen as a scammer by a poor one.

But other than some pole dancers or supported women I think probably 95% of you would marry a former prostitute if for the only reason that neither you or her family or maybe even her best friend will likely know she did this.

Scott

[Rasputin]

Would you marry an ex scammer?

No.

Would you marry an ex hooker?

Definitely, no.

Would you marry an ex sponsored woman?

If it was in her past and if she had done something since then (i.e. had established a career). It would also depend on the woman, her personality, etc...

[welder]

Would you marry an ex scammer?YES

Would you marry an ex hooker? YES

Would you marry an ex sponsored woman? YES

Would you rather not know and take her at face value? YES


Perhaps a little different spin and a logical explanation for my answers is to consider the questions from two perspectives.  The first perspective; would I do this at home?  The answer would be no to all the above.  The second perspective; How would i know the difference if I don't know the language and have no contacts in the FSU?  My wife and i discussed all of the above during our dating and engagement stage.  By her own account she could have easily been labelled a scammer, good time girl and green card girl by a western visitor.  My only frame of reference was how she treated me.  As such I proceeded blissfully ignorant of any of the above possibilities.  Our courting stage was away from both our native homes.  As such it was a fresh start for both of us with no exposure to either of our past environments. 

Perhaps my answer to the questions above are better represented by Could rather than Would, realizing that it would be impossible to know the difference.

[TomT]

Emphasis is on intelligent rational thinking women - having multiple sex partners for pay in the age of HIV or HSV (Genital Warts that cause most cervical cancers) etc etc is not rational...

"Human Papilloma Virus"

"

[WestCoast]

At least with the human papillomavirus, unlike with HIV, there is a vaccine that offers some protection against HPV and the cancers that can develop from it.  The vaccine is available for both women and men, yes men can get most definitely get HPV.  Unfortunately the max age for the vaccine for both sexes is 26, but it is recommended that girls get the vaccine at about 9 years of age.  However perhaps those members that date the really young FSUW should persuade or pay for the FSUW to get the vaccine if she is young enough.

http://www.cdc.gov/std/hpv/stdfact-hpv.htm 

[bagalia]

Oh man, oh man, scary subject viruses. Women are great breeding grounds and men sample several, or many. If I can believe Russian doctors and what I read on the net then there are viruses that a majority of women can carry for years and never know. I have also found that there are still some women in Russia that barely know what a gynecologist is.

Edit, I got called away. I think I am speaking of other viruses than HPV but just as common and not good. I know I caught one and it took several months to get rid of it. People have no idea, I know I didn't until a few years ago.

Scott

[sparky114]

One of the Girls in our "Russian" group is an ex "cam" girl and very proud of the way she stood alone in her country and provided for her son!! when the system there did nothing to help her.

And yes they met through this medium, and have a lovely Daughter now and believe me she is drop dead gorgeous still at 29 and after 2 kids 

They seem very happy and he is a great guy a Solicitor and has a very nice life 

It is each to their own and not necessarily mine but just proves you can find love in every corner 

[andrewfi]

Welder is right.

How would any of you lot know what your wives have been up to. They are most unlikely to share anything they thought you'd balk at and their families won't tell either.

If you got to know a woman well enough (better than most of you lot will manage) you might be able to pick up mental issues and make a choice based upon that, but it'd not be because of what she used to do. Not every hooker is a nutter and not every nutter is a hooker.

There is one thing that I have seen that makes life for all you lot who use agencies much harder though.
Women who earn, or have earned, a living through the 'generosity' of men seem to have a tendency to value a man by his 'generosity' his willingness to share the contents of his wallet.
OK, you say, so what?
Well, have a look at many, but not all women seeking a foreign husband have in common. They seek generous men who are able to afford to take care of them in a new country. And there is NOTHING wrong with that - indeed it is a rational prerequisite for a woman seeking a foreign bloke as a husband.
But you can, I am sure see the issue that arises, yes?
It means that the women you seek and meet through agencies will be displaying a trait that is very common in women who are, or have been, involved in the gentleman pleasing industries.

What Brad said is also true, although that is, increasingly, an historical thing - it affected women who are now in their late 30's and early 40's but, spookily, that is an age that many of the gurus among you lot would be suggesting you target.

Bottom line, whatever you may think, whatever you may think you have, a fair chunk of you are dealing with, or are married to, women from the gentleman pleasing industries. If you are happy with what you have don't think any more about it.
If you want  to be reasonably sure that it will not happen to you then don't lead with your wallet and don't look to marry a woman from a significantly poorer country than you.

Oh, the health thing?
Don't sweat it. What the Swedish bloke wrote is correct. HIV is largely confined to injecting druggies and, to a greater degree than in, for example, the US. Injecting is a marker of position on the social totem pole - only the poorest use injected drugs and unless you chase down your wife targets from the hoors around regional railway stations you are unlikely to come across such people.

On a personal note, I have learned this: We only get to where we are by having been where we have been. If you meet and care for a woman then don't think too much of her past because if her past had been different then you'd not have met and if you had you'd not have liked the person you met as much as you do.

[NS1]

Welder is right, +1

Andrew its scary, I agree with you ( shit I need a drink)

[curiogeo7]

Intresting questions.
 A scamer? what is the level of dishonesty there? The motivation?
 Have to say maybe, I would.
 A hooker? from the few I have met to many issues, I would say no.
 A sponsored girl? if she was up front with it, and we were for each other, yes.
  Of course, one of my buds Say's all women are whores, except our mothers, but they are suspect. So seems to be all in ones point of view.
 I have met very few folk that do not have some type of a "checkered" past, what really counts for me is: Now, Honesty and Loyalty. ( OK add good looks and great sex).
 Have another bud that married a very high $ English "escort", they are very happy, she is a great gal and wife.

[Rasputin]

How would any of you lot know what your wives have been up to.

When it comes to work history, it is easy enough, as I had to decipher and translate my wife's "трудовая книжка" when she was applying for permanent residence. True, it only records her "official" work history, but clearly she did not have much time left over to be either a scammer or a prostitute   

[Muzh_1]

How would any of you lot know what your wives have been up to. They are most unlikely to share anything they thought you'd balk at and their families won't tell either.

I like to refer to this as the virgin (NOT!) looking to marry a (real) virgin.

Edit: Just in case, I agree with you.

[d672]

How would any of you lot know what your wives have been up to.

When it comes to work history, it is easy enough, as I had to decipher and translate my wife's "трудовая книжка" when she was applying for permanent residence. True, it only records her "official" work history, but clearly she did not have much time left over to be either a scammer or a prostitute 

 X2

 I dont know about other countries but Canada immigration asks for a well detailed history of her previous residences, work and education history, marriages and names of those husbands. It gives you a pretty good insight into her life before you met her.